OccamsRazor Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 On 8/26/2017 at 9:55 PM, vis said: For one, I don't think they're trading Pastrnak. Just entertaining the thought during the dog days of the offseason. But if they did, I don't think Jake makes sense given his contract, age and recent performance - when they are apparently balking at giving less money to a younger player coming off a 70 point season. Exactly. They need him the only forward who found the back of the net more than him was Marchand on the Broons. He ain't going anywhere unless for a King'd ransome. I'm ok passing on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Did not read through the whole thread, but an interesting topic. I *know* you can never have enough young stud d-men, but Brandon Carlo was more than a pleasant surprise last year, he looks like a star to me. Even better than Carlo is Charlie McAvoy. He has all star #1 stud dman written all over him. He has to be one of the top 3 or 4 favourites to win the Calder. Bruins also have highly thought of Ryan Lindgren from the NCAA in their prospect pool, and Jakub Zobril, a first rounder from a few years ago who is looking strong. What I'm getting at is I think the Bruins would be looking for a forward who scores in return for Pasternak. Without Pasta (ha ha) in the line up, you are hoping for another wicked year from Marchand, Bergeron is pass first, as is Krejci. They would NEED goals if Pasta left, for sure. I saw this kid play for the Greyhounds last year, Senyshyn (a Bruins first rounder)....he lifted me right out of my seat with moves and blazing speed, this kid will really, really good. Goals will be coming from him soon enough, but the Bruins would require a scoring winger who is under cheap team control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 6:24 PM, AlaskaFlyerFan said: All this talk of Pasta is making me hungry. Ok! I'll take a few plates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 On 8/26/2017 at 10:18 PM, ruxpin said: Well yeah, but you and others have made me move on to Simmonds (who I actually like) Yeah, moving Simmonds would be tough. Love his game when he's on. Though, my biggest issue trading him would be the loss of his veteran presence in light of the young guys in the pipeline. The next contract is looming however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, vis said: The next contract is looming however... Yes i would hate to lose him one of my favs. However the good news is they don't have to worry about extending or resigning him till after this year. So they can just try and focus on this year and getting better and trying to get into the dance. However as you stated it is looming next offseason. All i know is i'm glad i don't have to make that call. I would struggle to not listen to my heart instead of my head. I hope Ron is better at that than me. And they could do one of three things resign him. Trade him during the summer. Or keep him and trade him at or before the deadline. No matter what the Flyers won't be left empty handed by him moving on. Tough call to make that could be made even tougher by a great season by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 16 minutes ago, vis said: Yeah, moving Simmonds would be tough. Love his game when he's on. Though, my biggest issue trading him would be the loss of his veteran presence in light of the young guys in the pipeline. The next contract is looming however... Yeah, I don't think now is the time to move him. He's got two years yet. I mean, if a "Wow!" deal came up then maybe I'm game. Depending upon what we look like at the deadline this year, then maybe you start looking long and hard at it. But if you get into the following year, you're really hoping you're in the playoff hunt by then, right? It's awfully hard to trade him at that deadline, so you're looking at extending him or letting him go for nothing. I love the guy, but he needs to get paid and at that point in his career I don't think I'll like the term or the money it will take. So I guess it's this deadline, unless you wait and move him at the draft. I'd hate to see the guy go, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yes i would hate to lose him one of my favs. However the good news is they don't have to worry about extending or resigning him till after this year. Yeah, they have some time but maybe not that much. Even though he'd be 30 at the time his contract is up, it's worth considering resigning him. Problem is that Provorov and, hopefully Patrick at some point, are going to get hefty pay raises. With Giroux and Voracek eating up as much cap as they do, you cannot afford to pay everyone. Plus, Simmonds should have some trade value to a playoff contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 The thing that sucks about Simmonds is that he's on such a discounted salary/cap, and will only be 30. You have to think that $6-$6.5/m a year for 4-5 years isn't unreasonable for him. If he scores 30 again, you have to go up from there. That's still a hometeam discount, I think, but $6.5M (probably low) represents a $2.6M raise in your cap. With kids coming up on FA (some RFA, some UFA), can they even do that? They'd have Lehtera money to play with at that point, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Depending upon what we look like at the deadline this year, then maybe you start looking long and hard at it. But if you get into the following year, you're really hoping you're in the playoff hunt by then, right? It's awfully hard to trade him at that deadline, so you're looking at extending him or letting him go for nothing. I love the guy, but he needs to get paid and at that point in his career I don't think I'll like the term or the money it will take. So I guess it's this deadline, unless you wait and move him at the draft. I'd hate to see the guy go, but... Yeah, they have a timing issue. No way they deal him next year if they are in the PO hunt, so what do you do this year? You could get a really nice haul for him, especially if you trade him this year with one more year on a reasonable contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, ruxpin said: The thing that sucks about Simmonds is that he's on such a discounted salary/cap, and will only be 30. You have to think that $6-$6.5/m a year for 4-5 years isn't unreasonable for him. If he scores 30 again, you have to go up from there. That's still a hometeam discount, I think, but $6.5M (probably low) represents a $2.6M raise in your cap. With kids coming up on FA (some RFA, some UFA), can they even do that? They'd have Lehtera money to play with at that point, I suppose. Having outperformed his cap hit, do you think he goes out and seeks a big payday? Honestly, I could see him resigning here. Obviously a lot depends on his performance this year and next. A lot can happen in two years, especially over the age of 28. But look at that contract Oshie got... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, vis said: Problem is that Provorov I imagine he will sign a very nice contract after this upcoming season is over. And he will have earned it if he continues his upward trend. 7 minutes ago, vis said: With Giroux and Voracek eating up as much cap as they do, you cannot afford to pay everyone. Yes this is true however the year his would kick in should he get one they will have 4.7mill for Lehtera, 2.3 mill for Raffl and another 1.7mill coming off the books. Along with 5.25 mill for Elliot and Neuvy coming off. But with that said TK will also be looking for a new deal and they will need two goalies...by then one of those two could be Lyon or Stolarz or even both?????? Jeeze did i just type that??? But a hell of a lot to figure out between now and then for sure....i'm hoping the picture becomes clearer as this season moves along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But a hell of a lot to figure out between now and then for sure....i'm hoping the picture becomes clearer as this season moves along. Yeah, Hextall is going to have to clearly map out how he intends to pay all of his prized prospects should they turn out the way they believe. Provorov will undoubtedly get a big contract. Hard to believe Patrick won't be in line for one sooner than later, assuming he starts in the NHL this year. Konecny will get a good raise as well. Weal is UFA in a couple of years. I just looked ahead to 2019-2020 and the Flyers will have a lot of cap room assuming the cap stays the same. However, they will only have 10 players signed (assuming Morin and Sanheim are resigned before then), with Simmonds and Weal being UFAs and Provorov, Konecny and Vecchione being RFAs that year. And Patrick and Lindblom being RFAs the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 On 8/26/2017 at 8:04 AM, OccamsRazor said: Right now the Flyers are stacked at RW. No need to alter from the plan for some magic beans now. I'd prefer to see what they have with some of these young D men before just trading them away right now especially when they don't have to. Who knows maybe Mark Friedman is the next Duncan Keith....i certainly wouldn't want to trade him right now before we know what you have. No if they were a Pastrnak away from a serious run....then i would be more inclined to listen to this. But they aren't they are i think like the 6th youngest team in the NHL heading into next year. I don't disagree with you, but this guy isn't "magic beans" What the Flyers have NOW are magic beans. Pastrnak was better than anyone on the Flyers team last year and he's 21 years old. This isn't a guy you tack on for a cup run. They're not a Pastrnak away from anything because a Pastrnak is the kind of guy you build a team around. I'd trade Simmonds or Jake for him in a heartbeat. I'd send two firsts for him an in heartbeat (mainly because we have 3 over the next two years). It's really only the D men where I get a bit cautious. For this reason, I agree, it's insane to think that Boston would trade him. They've traded away even better players though. Could Konecny, or Lindblom someday get that good? Sure. I hope so. They've got a few years. The good news is that while Pastrnak's scoring pace was better than Konecny's as a rookie year, TK still has plenty of upside and played more games in his rookie year than Pastrnak did in either of his first two years. That said, Pastrnak's a natural scorer. I too wouldn't want to trade any of our young D men, but the fact of the matter is, unless Hextall trades one of them in the next two years, there's not going to be a roster spot to find out of Friedman is going to be the next Duncan Keith. I'm not condoning trading a young D man For Pastrnak. I'm just trying to convey that this is a complicated balancing act to think about. This isn't just some "extra piece". He'd be a centerpiece on the team for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, vis said: Yeah, Hextall is going to have to clearly map out how he intends to pay all of his prized prospects should they turn out the way they believe. Provorov will undoubtedly get a big contract. Hard to believe Patrick won't be in line for one sooner than later, assuming he starts in the NHL this year. Konecny will get a good raise as well. Weal is UFA in a couple of years. I just looked ahead to 2019-2020 and the Flyers will have a lot of cap room assuming the cap stays the same. However, they will only have 10 players signed (assuming Morin and Sanheim are resigned before then), with Simmonds and Weal being UFAs and Provorov, Konecny and Vecchione being RFAs that year. And Patrick and Lindblom being RFAs the following year. If everyone's working out, I don't think Simmonds will get resigned. He'll be deadline dealt or they'll keep him for the playoffs if they look to be competitive in two years. They should have a better idea on Weal by then too. And the progress of Lindblom, Konecny, Vrobyov & Rubstov are the keys to whether or not to resign Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, King Knut said: If everyone's working out, I don't think Simmonds will get resigned. He'll be deadline dealt or they'll keep him for the playoffs if they look to be competitive in two years. Which is good and bad. Good because it hopefully means the prospects are succeeding. Bad because the Giroux and Voracek contracts will cost them a better player (assuming G and V don't turn it around). Maybe with cap increases and reasonable demands from Simmonds they can make something work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 52 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I imagine he will sign a very nice contract after this upcoming season is over. And he will have earned it if he continues his upward trend. Yes this is true however the year his would kick in should he get one they will have 4.7mill for Lehtera, 2.3 mill for Raffl and another 1.7mill coming off the books. Along with 5.25 mill for Elliot and Neuvy coming off. But with that said TK will also be looking for a new deal and they will need two goalies...by then one of those two could be Lyon or Stolarz or even both?????? Jeeze did i just type that??? But a hell of a lot to figure out between now and then for sure....i'm hoping the picture becomes clearer as this season moves along. They're going to have over $25 million coming off the books in the next two years. They'll likely buy out MacDonald at that point (I don't assume he'll even have played much with the Flyers the year preceding that). Yes, they'll need to dole out a lot of new contracts by then, but a lot of those will just slide off the books (Lehtera, Filppula, MacDonald, Read Raffl) as they likely already have their replacements in the system or on the team, which means just starting ELC's or extending RFA contracts. Worst case scenario, the Flyers find themselves in the position the Bruins are in now with Pastrnak where they have a guy clearly worth $6mill+ for a long term deal going into RFA... unless EVERYONE works out at the same time, the Flyers can handle that and if Weal, Konecny, Patrick et all, all work out like that simultaneously, and the Flyers have to trade one of them for picks and pieces... it won't be the worst thing in the world... and if that did happen, I don't think it would be impossible to find a taker for Giroux's last three years. Worst case scenario, you trade a kid before you want to... they still have Rubstov, Vorobyov, Radcliffe, Frost, Strohme, and others coming up through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, vis said: Which is good and bad. Good because it hopefully means the prospects are succeeding. Bad because the Giroux and Voracek contracts will cost them a better player (assuming G and V don't turn it around). Maybe with cap increases and reasonable demands from Simmonds they can make something work. ...yeah I don't know. We gave Giroux and Jake their long term deals when they were still young. Simmonds will be shopping for a long term deal of his own when he's 31 and I just don't see him getting it and if he did, I just don't see him being worth it. He could prove me wrong and being a Jagr who's productive until he's 67, but by and large, players are dropping off by 31. I don't think even if they had the room, it would be worth giving him an Oshie type deal to keep him around. The Capitals CLEARLY should have let Oshie walk, but they're doubling down on winning in the next two years and are clearly willing to sacrifice the next 8 years after that. I don't think Hextall will be in a similarly generous mood, even when it comes to a deservedly beloved player like Simmonds. Wayne really screwed himself with his last deal and it's hard for me not to think it was just because he's a damn nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, vis said: Yeah, they have some time but maybe not that much. Even though he'd be 30 at the time his contract is up, it's worth considering resigning him. Problem is that Provorov and, hopefully Patrick at some point, are going to get hefty pay raises. With Giroux and Voracek eating up as much cap as they do, you cannot afford to pay everyone. Plus, Simmonds should have some trade value to a playoff contender. I'd hate to see Wayne playing for another team, but I like him enough that I want him to get paid... simultaneously, I just don't think it'll make sense for the Flyers to be the team to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, King Knut said: Pastrnak was better than anyone on the Flyers team last year and he's 21 years old. But it was only one year. Sorry i need more than that to go off of. Jake had an 80 point season....but it was only one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: But it was only one year. Sorry i need more than that to go off of. Jake had an 80 point season....but it was only one year. Jake was 26 when he had that year. Pastrnak is 21. And again, I don't think there's a comfortable way to make a deal like this happen unless for some psychotic reason Boston wants Jake or SImmer (and any of Lehtera, Raffl, Read, Weise) and a pick in return. I'm just saying, This guy's not something you add on to make a contender better, he's something you build on to make a contender at all. He's already what you hope Lindblom and Konecny can turn out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, King Knut said: Jake was 26 when he had that year. Pastrnak is 21. Ok it is still one year. Vezina winner Jim Carey at a ripe ol age of 21 says hello!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Ok it is still one year. Vezina winner Jim Carey at a ripe ol age of 21 says hello!!!! My goodness, you're right. That seems entirely relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just now, King Knut said: My goodness, you're right. That seems entirely relevant. Hey i'm in no way saying Pastrnak isn't good or won't be good i just don't want to do much tinkering with the club right now while they are still going through this growth/evaluation process....sure i would listen to a Jake or Simmer for him but it is the other pieces that is would cost that concerns me. Now if it was a Simmer or Jake for picks and not players who are close to helping the Flyers then i would be more open to listening... ...however the Bruins will want more back who can help now and they won't want the guys i would want to give them. So yeah it is fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Hey i'm in no way saying Pastrnak isn't good or won't be good i just don't want to do much tinkering with the club right now while they are still going through this growth/evaluation process....sure i would listen to a Jake or Simmer for him but it is the other pieces that is would cost that concerns me. Now if it was a Simmer or Jake for picks and not players who are close to helping the Flyers then i would be more open to listening... ...however the Bruins will want more back who can help now and they won't want the guys i would want to give them. So yeah it is fantasy. For me personally, I'd rather have the guy who's got a .34 goals per game and a .75 points per game average over his first three partial seasons. The only down side to this kid is that he has a less than perfect injury history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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