RonJeremy Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 @knut I agree we had a decent defense , but to me we always only had one " go to guy" Howe was our top guy and once McCrimmon was foolishley traded, whenever Howes back would act up, our defense became very suspect. In the Desjardins era , he was really our only legit dman, and he was a # 2 dman, we never had a true # 1. Desjardins was overused. We we finally had a # 1 and 2 in Pronger and Timmo, unfortunately they were both 35 and breaking down by the time that happened. What Im saying is ...if Provo, Sanheim and Myers become what we think they will, it will be the most talented top 3 we ever had and if one guy did get hurt , we still have enough talent and depth for the team to still do well. In the old days,we relied way too much on one guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: @knut I agree we had a decent defense , but to me we always only had one " go to guy" Howe was our top guy and once McCrimmon was foolishley traded, whenever Howes back would act up, our defense became very suspect. In the Desjardins era , he was really our only legit dman, and he was a # 2 dman, we never had a true # 1. Desjardins was overused. We we finally had a # 1 and 2 in Pronger and Timmo, unfortunately they were both 35 and breaking down by the time that happened. What Im saying is ...if Provo, Sanheim and Myers become what we think they will, it will be the most talented top 3 we ever had and if one guy did get hurt , we still have enough talent and depth for the team to still do well. In the old days,we relied way too much on one guy. Desjardins was definitely a #1 defenseman. He just had nothing behind him on the depth chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Desjardins was not a # 1 defenseman, he was not dominant in any one area , he was a solid all around dman, but in no way a true #1. Pronger, Doughty, Robinson, Stevens, Potvin. Those are # 1 defensemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: Desjardins was not a # 1 defenseman, he was not dominant in any one area , he was a solid all around dman, but in no way a true #1. Pronger, Doughty, Robinson, Stevens, Potvin. Those are # 1 defensemen. I wanted to argue with you. I was going to say he was more of a Bourque-lite kind of #1. But he really was more in the Timmo vein. Timmo was a terrific player and did a lot of things very well. But neither he nor Desjardins were the type of defenseman you game planned around or necessarily altered your entry into the zone for. So, I agree in the way you're presenting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 On 06/09/2017 at 5:46 PM, RonJeremy said: Desjardins was not a # 1 defenseman, he was not dominant in any one area , he was a solid all around dman, but in no way a true #1. Pronger, Doughty, Robinson, Stevens, Potvin. Those are # 1 defensemen. Those guys are franchise defenseman, who are above and beyond #1 defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 11 hours ago, RJ8812 said: Those guys are franchise defenseman, who are above and beyond #1 defenseman. Yeah, that's a good distinction. I'll buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 @RJ8812- yes those guys I listed are franchise defenseman, which means that there are really not that many true # 1 defensmen in the NHL these days. Desjardins was certainly the Flyers # 1 dman , but only because the rest of the guys were so mediocre. He was paired with Therein most of his career, so your gonna tell me Therein is a legit # 2 dman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 59 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: @RJ8812- yes those guys I listed are franchise defenseman, which means that there are really not that many true # 1 defensmen in the NHL these days. Desjardins was certainly the Flyers # 1 dman , but only because the rest of the guys were so mediocre. He was paired with Therein most of his career, so your gonna tell me Therein is a legit # 2 dman? @RonJeremy, Great point. I totally agree with what you are saying. I think the #1 d-man is determined by ice time. That doesn't apply to determine #2. After #1, it is more difficult to determine any ranking. #2 could be the best d-man on the 2nd pairing. It all depends on your defensive corps. If you're stacked with good players, #2 might be the partner of #1. More than likely he will be on a different pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: @RonJeremy, Great point. I totally agree with what you are saying. I think the #1 d-man is determined by ice time. That doesn't apply to determine #2. After #1, it is more difficult to determine any ranking. #2 could be the best d-man on the 2nd pairing. It all depends on your defensive corps. If you're stacked with good players, #2 might be the partner of #1. More than likely he will be on a different pairing. Agreed. So here's the question: if #2 on that team wasn't Therien (I'm arguing that he is, btw) who was it? I actually think Therien gets a bum rap. They kept him around long past his usefulness, but he was actually fairly good in 1996-97. But back to the question, because I'm looking at the roster and really, it's not that great. Just based on stats, Niinimaa? Coffee wasn't a #2 anymore, I don't think. Svoboda? Dykhuis? I think maybe the defense that year was a case of "total is greater than the sum of its parts." Because individually, you look back and you add in the goaltending and you're thinking, "damn, I hope they score a ton of goals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: Agreed. So here's the question: if #2 on that team wasn't Therien (I'm arguing that he is, btw) who was it? I actually think Therien gets a bum rap. They kept him around long past his usefulness, but he was actually fairly good in 1996-97. But back to the question, because I'm looking at the roster and really, it's not that great. Just based on stats, Niinimaa? Coffee wasn't a #2 anymore, I don't think. Svoboda? Dykhuis? I think maybe the defense that year was a case of "total is greater than the sum of its parts." Because individually, you look back and you add in the goaltending and you're thinking, "damn, I hope they score a ton of goals." Therien was by default. He was best a #4 but someone had to play with Rico and that is who they put with him. I mean right now last year Ivan was the #1 and hey guy who played with him was Mcdud but no way on God's green earth is he a #2. At best ( and i'm being awfully kind) he is a #5-#7. So i would say Gudas is #2 and Ghost #3. Flyers have always had a ragtag misfit bunch on the blueline since i have been watching them. That is why i'm so excited for the kid who are trickling in.... ...a legit eventual top defense in the NHL i think in less than 4 years. #someonepinchme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I'm excited about our defense , if all goes well...Provo, Sanheim, Meyers and Ghostas our top 4...never in Flyer history have we had that kind of talent and high end skill on the blue line. So much better than DuPont, Wilson, Dailey, Barnes , Bathe and Busniuk, and that defense went 35 games unbeaten And made it to the cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 8/31/2017 at 6:43 AM, OccamsRazor said: Yikes. Trading for Oates. Too many to name. Yes, Oates...LOL, and only Clarke could sign Coffey when he could not longer skate, or Sittler weeks before retiring. For me, seeing Sittler in the O&B was SICKENING!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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