Wings (Thankfully) Say "Athana-see-you" to Thomas Vanek

[SpikeDDS]

Thomas Vanek signed a 1-year deal with the Vancouver Canucks. It would have been nice to sign him again, but cap space problems are forcing us to make decisions that we haven't wanted to make, but have needed to make for several seasons now: Deciding to prioritize the long-run vs. the short-run. Granted we have had to do it by force now--waaaay later than we should have--but at least we are (finally) starting to make decisions that make sense for the good of the franchise, and not just for ticket sales for a single season. 

 

We we still have the task of getting our cap space down to be able to ink a deal for AA, but it would have been a LOT more difficult had we signed Vanek. I like him. He was a good fit on our team. We just don't have the room for him, and we need to focus on developing our young talent now. 

 

I wish Vanek well in Vancouver, although I question whether he will be as effective there as he was last season with the RWs. We will miss him this season, but I am glad the front office didn't try to find a way to do the wrong thing here, even as it will probably hurt this season. 

[Buffalo Rick]

52 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

Thomas Vanek signed a 1-year deal with the Vancouver Canucks. It would have been nice to sign him again, but cap space problems are forcing us to make decisions that we haven't wanted to make, but have needed to make for several seasons now: Deciding to prioritize the long-run vs. the short-run. Granted we have had to do it by force now--waaaay later than we should have--but at least we are (finally) starting to make decisions that make sense for the good of the franchise, and not just for ticket sales for a single season. 

 

We we still have the task of getting our cap space down to be able to ink a deal for AA, but it would have been a LOT more difficult had we signed Vanek. I like him. He was a good fit on our team. We just don't have the room for him, and we need to focus on developing our young talent now. 

 

I wish Vanek well in Vancouver, although I question whether he will be as effective there as he was last season with the RWs. We will miss him this season, but I am glad the front office didn't try to find a way to do the wrong thing here, even as it will probably hurt this season. 

Vanek will always be remembered as a Buffalo Sabre.  He had his best years there and went to the playoffs many times.  I can see no scenario of Vancouver making it in.

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 9/4/2017 at 11:59 AM, Hockey Junkie said:

Vanek will always be remembered as a Buffalo Sabre.  He had his best years there and went to the playoffs many times.  I can see no scenario of Vancouver making it in.

If They had let Vanek walk when he signed a sheet to skip out of town to the Oilers they could have had 4 first round picks

[Buffalo Rick]

38 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

If They had let Vanek walk when he signed a sheet to skip out of town to the Oilers they could have had 4 first round picks

At the time losing him was not in their best interest.  And they would have won the Cup in 06 if they had not had the terrible misfortune of losing 4 starting D men for game 7 vs Carolina

[jammer2]

On 9/4/2017 at 10:06 AM, SpikeDDS said:

Thomas Vanek signed a 1-year deal with the Vancouver Canucks. It would have been nice to sign him again, but cap space problems are forcing us to make decisions that we haven't wanted to make, but have needed to make for several seasons now: Deciding to prioritize the long-run vs. the short-run. Granted we have had to do it by force now--waaaay later than we should have--but at least we are (finally) starting to make decisions that make sense for the good of the franchise, and not just for ticket sales for a single season. 

 

We we still have the task of getting our cap space down to be able to ink a deal for AA, but it would have been a LOT more difficult had we signed Vanek. I like him. He was a good fit on our team. We just don't have the room for him, and we need to focus on developing our young talent now. 

 

I wish Vanek well in Vancouver, although I question whether he will be as effective there as he was last season with the RWs. We will miss him this season, but I am glad the front office didn't try to find a way to do the wrong thing here, even as it will probably hurt this season. 

 

 Either AA is going to leave for Russia and the KHL (Ak-Bars...they have stolen a few NHL players over the years) or he is going to use that as leverage to get a much bigger pay day. I don't see how the Wings can afford to let him go, that much speed and talent...wow. 

[SpikeDDS]

6 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Either AA is going to leave for Russia and the KHL (Ak-Bars...they have stolen a few NHL players over the years) or he is going to use that as leverage to get a much bigger pay day. I don't see how the Wings can afford to let him go, that much speed and talent...wow. 

 

IF AA goes to the KHL, it will be:

 

A. awful. We will be losing our most offensively productive player per game excepting Z. (And Z was more assists than goals.)

 

B. THE culmination of the blunders in mismanagement that are Ken Holland's responsibilities. AA is EXACTLY what you want coming through your farm system. If you gat a talent like him coming through, and you CAN'T sign him because you can't afford him, you have TOTALLY mismanaged your team in the cap era!

 

If we lose AA, it SHOULD be the end of Kenny Holland as GM. I don't know that it WILL be. One of the Red Wings' problems has been being TOO loyal to their own. The number of players with ridiculous contracts, given to reward loyalty, has risen now to a point where we can't even afford to pay a young talent a legitimate wage. Why would it surprise me if they do the same with KH? 

 

Answer: It won't. Jeff Blashill will get the axe because he will be unable to coach a team with a talent level just above that of the AHL into a competitive NHL team. Not his fault.

 

I'm afraid that the solution will be giving away talent to make room. We will FINALLY lose Franzen's contract only to have to then deal with the remainder of Zetterberg's deal after he hangs them up. It's gonna be YEARS before we will clear enough cap to allow us to build to competitive level again.

[jammer2]

On 9/7/2017 at 6:14 AM, SpikeDDS said:

 

IF AA goes to the KHL, it will be:

 

A. awful. We will be losing our most offensively productive player per game excepting Z. (And Z was more assists than goals.)

 

B. THE culmination of the blunders in mismanagement that are Ken Holland's responsibilities. AA is EXACTLY what you want coming through your farm system. If you gat a talent like him coming through, and you CAN'T sign him because you can't afford him, you have TOTALLY mismanaged your team in the cap era!

 

If we lose AA, it SHOULD be the end of Kenny Holland as GM. I don't know that it WILL be. One of the Red Wings' problems has been being TOO loyal to their own. The number of players with ridiculous contracts, given to reward loyalty, has risen now to a point where we can't even afford to pay a young talent a legitimate wage. Why would it surprise me if they do the same with KH? 

 

Answer: It won't. Jeff Blashill will get the axe because he will be unable to coach a team with a talent level just above that of the AHL into a competitive NHL team. Not his fault.

 

I'm afraid that the solution will be giving away talent to make room. We will FINALLY lose Franzen's contract only to have to then deal with the remainder of Zetterberg's deal after he hangs them up. It's gonna be YEARS before we will clear enough cap to allow us to build to competitive level again.

 

 

  I have been wondering the past few days...if a JVR for AA trade would make sense for both teams. The only thing that would stall the deal would be the Wings inability to fit JVR under their tight cap space. BUT....where there is a will, there is a way. 

 

 Wings send a 2nd round pick, Ericksson and AA to Toronto for JVR. Sure, JVR is much more proven....but AA has more speed and pure skill. Big age difference of course. Wings give up the draft pick and the Leafs take on Erickson's contract. They send him to the AHL and adsorb a bit of a cap hit with the difference of money from AHL to NHL. 

 

 Wings avoid losing AA for nothing, JVR gets top line and top pp opportunity and the Leafs can afford to give AA 4 mill a year. Could you imagine AA with Marner and Matthews...how skilled and fast that line would be? I know the Leafs would prefer getting a dman back for JVR, but when you have a chance to secure a talent like AA, you do it. 

[SpikeDDS]

On 9/11/2017 at 1:52 AM, jammer2 said:

 

 

  I have been wondering the past few days...if a JVR for AA trade would make sense for both teams. The only thing that would stall the deal would be the Wings inability to fit JVR under their tight cap space. BUT....where there is a will, there is a way. 

 

 Wings send a 2nd round pick, Ericksson and AA to Toronto for JVR. Sure, JVR is much more proven....but AA has more speed and pure skill. Big age difference of course. Wings give up the draft pick and the Leafs take on Erickson's contract. They send him to the AHL and adsorb a bit of a cap hit with the difference of money from AHL to NHL. 

 

 Wings avoid losing AA for nothing, JVR gets top line and top pp opportunity and the Leafs can afford to give AA 4 mill a year. Could you imagine AA with Marner and Matthews...how skilled and fast that line would be? I know the Leafs would prefer getting a dman back for JVR, but when you have a chance to secure a talent like AA, you do it. 

 

I guess I am in full rebuilding mode now. I would rather the Wings have a couple years when they suck, but then in a few years have developed the talent they are amassing now. I don't really see how JVR helps in that regard. I CERTAINLY see how the deal would help the Leafs.

 

Honestly, I think we need to do what is necessary to keep AA. Dump who we must.

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, SpikeDDS said:

Honestly, I think we need to do what is necessary to keep AA. Dump who we must.

 

 How would this be accomplished?  You can't send 5 players down to save 5 mill in contacts...lol. Getting a talent back for AA like JVR keeps options open. Trade him for a 1st rounder and a prospect....or a very nice elite prospect....etc. I don't know if the Wings have the ability to give AA what he wants, or if Holland can act like a real GM and do what he must to protect the asset. 

[SpikeDDS]

8 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 How would this be accomplished?  You can't send 5 players down to save 5 mill in contacts...lol. Getting a talent back for AA like JVR keeps options open. Trade him for a 1st rounder and a prospect....or a very nice elite prospect....etc. I don't know if the Wings have the ability to give AA what he wants, or if Holland can act like a real GM and do what he must to protect the asset. 

 

Are you saying $5M a year or total? Because we don't need to offer him $5M per year to keep him. Shoot, he's considering KHL at less than $3M. So you offer him a 2-yr deal after you dump a player. He knows he'll be worth a lot more  N a couple seasons, and those seasons will be enough to shed Franzen's deal. He will get some of that  A forward like Nyquist, say. Lose that contract and now AA is affordable.

 

That would be my mindset anyway. If we got a d-man that would help stabilize our dreadful D, THAT might be worth trading AA for. I would rather keep AA and lose a guy like Nyke, because there is no real solution right now to make us competitive right now. We must look to the future. AA is a good asset that will pay off nearer to when we will be competitive again. I don't think JVR helps get us any closer than just dealing one of our forwards away for not much.

 

One thing is for sure: we are going to lose something in order to get us where we want to be in a few years. Losing AA would not be my first choice. By far not my first choice.

[jammer2]

2 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

 

Are you saying $5M a year or total? Because we don't need to offer him $5M per year to keep him. Shoot, he's considering KHL at less than $3M. So you offer him a 2-yr deal after you dump a player. He knows he'll be worth a lot more  N a couple seasons, and those seasons will be enough to shed Franzen's deal. He will get some of that  A forward like Nyquist, say. Lose that contract and now AA is affordable.

 

That would be my mindset anyway. If we got a d-man that would help stabilize our dreadful D, THAT might be worth trading AA for. I would rather keep AA and lose a guy like Nyke, because there is no real solution right now to make us competitive right now. We must look to the future. AA is a good asset that will pay off nearer to when we will be competitive again. I don't think JVR helps get us any closer than just dealing one of our forwards away for not much.

 

One thing is for sure: we are going to lose something in order to get us where we want to be in a few years. Losing AA would not be my first choice. By far not my first choice.

 

 Ahhh, I see what you are saying. I truly believe what the Wings need is a full and complete rebuild, but that does not jive with Holland's job security. Will he do what is best for the team, or best for his employment AND is the young Illitch capable of seeing through the latter? 

 

 Guys like Nyqvist, who will be leaving their prime before a full rebuild is complete,  that is exactly the type of guy to dump. Worth stuff to other teams, the Wings, no so much. Of course, Holland did not guard against the worst case scenario here, which is AA using or running to KHL. He saved only enough to reach a deal under the CBA, a restricted tender. Huge error, and if AA is not on the Wings roster come Oct, he should be fired for it. 

[SpikeDDS]

3 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Ahhh, I see what you are saying. I truly believe what the Wings need is a full and complete rebuild, but that does not jive with Holland's job security. Will he do what is best for the team, or best for his employment AND is the young Illitch capable of seeing through the latter? 

 

 Guys like Nyqvist, who will be leaving their prime before a full rebuild is complete,  that is exactly the type of guy to dump. Worth stuff to other teams, the Wings, no so much. Of course, Holland did not guard against the worst case scenario here, which is AA using or running to KHL. He saved only enough to reach a deal under the CBA, a restricted tender. Huge error, and if AA is not on the Wings roster come Oct, he should be fired for it. 

 

Which is exactly what my #2 said earlier. AA is EXACTLY what you hope comes through you farm system (for a forward), and if you haven't allowed enough money to even give a player like him a reasonable deal--he is not asking for the sky!--you have negated the whole reason for your farm system to exist.

 

If we had  surplus of talent, that would be different. We don't. Instead, we have a surplus of overpaid second-tier players and long-term deals that either are being paid or will be paid long after the players are finished.

 

if we lose AA, Holland should be shown the door. @yave1964 and I have been saying he should have been "promoted" to a higher front office position years ago. We saw this coming.

 

For Holland, I see NO WAY that he survives this. Even if he were to try a deal like you are suggesting to save his own ass, JVR does t save the season, and the Leafs look even more daunting as the years go by. Babs would be licking his chops!

 

I still hope he starts to do what is best for the franchise long-term. IMHO, there isn't much choice now. 

[jammer2]

The smart play is having the Illitch family order a complete rebuild and yeah, promise Kenny boy some upper management job for being a good soldier etc. 

 

 Like you said, AA is not asking for anything the market would not bear for a promising kid with limited stats and unlimited skating ability. He is not demanding 7 mill a year or anything crazy. The restricted free agent thing puts unfair limits on guys like AA, so when they gain leverage, I don't have a problem with it.