Flyers Training camp

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

55 is a lot of players left.  They still have to cut more players than will make the team.

 

Yeah they always have two different groups going to two different games....one group will play the Isles on the 20th and the other group will play Boston the following day.

 

The rules require them to dress at least 8 players on NHL regulars.

 

I imagine the last two games will be for guys who will make the team to work on their chemistry and some system gelling.

[AJgoal]

Meltzer confirmed Giroux on LW. So lines are:

 

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek

Lindblom - Patrick - Konecny

Weal - Filppula - Weise
Raffl - Lehtera - Read
Leier - Laughton - McDonald

 

Gostisbehere - Hagg

Provorov - MacDonald

Morin - Brennan

Manning - Gudas

 

[elmatus]

52 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Meltzer confirmed Giroux on LW. So lines are:

 

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek

Lindblom - Patrick - Konecny

Weal - Filppula - Weise
Raffl - Lehtera - Read
Leier - Laughton - McDonald

 

There are some interesting trios you don't see every day...

 

As a side note: I only caught the last period of the last isles game, but Laughton was very impressive. Did he play that way throughout?

 

52 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Provorov - MacDonald

 

Blargh.

[vis]

Interesting that Sanheim is with the Phantoms and Brennan with the Flyers.  Gotta be a message to Sanheim.

 

Lindblom/Patrick/Konecny is interesting.  Could be a lot of fun - and pain - watching that line.  

 

Not sure what to think about Giroux on the LW.  I like it because it shouldn't be as physically demanding on him and may unlock some offensive productivity if he doesn't have to play C in his own zone.  Not digging having their two best faceoff guys on the same line, and I think it hurts their depth.  And then there's Couturier playing on an offensive line...

[OccamsRazor]

I'm ok with it if it produces results in goals and points...and confidence for the team...most importantly WINS!

 

There are a few guys who can take up faceoffs.

 

 

Flyers' Claude Giroux all smiles after trying a wing

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/philadelphia-flyers-claude-giroux-sean-couturier-jake-voracek-dave-hakstol-20170919.html?mobi=true

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Love the Giroux move to the left wing. Couturieur is going to have so much fun on that line with Giroux and Voracek. It's also clear that they've got big plans for Patrick this year and having him flanked by Konecny and Lindblom should make for A LOT of fun. They might give Hakstol fits every night in terms of defense, but defense can be taught. The offense should be in high gear on this line. As well, a third line of Weal - Filppula - Simmonds shows the depth and they'll also kill with skill. Jeez, even the fourth line could be something else to face. I love it. Moving Giroux opens up SO many different opportunities. This might be one of the few times I'll openly praise Hakstol for a decision he made. 

[vis]

14 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Love the Giroux move to the left wing. Couturieur is going to have so much fun on that line with Giroux and Voracek. It's also clear that they've got big plans for Patrick this year and having him flanked by Konecny and Lindblom should make for A LOT of fun. They might give Hakstol fits every night in terms of defense, but defense can be taught. The offense should be in high gear on this line. As well, a third line of Weal - Filppula - Simmonds shows the depth and they'll also kill with skill. Jeez, even the fourth line could be something else to face. I love it. Moving Giroux opens up SO many different opportunities. This might be one of the few times I'll openly praise Hakstol for a decision he made. 

I like Giroux on the wing, but less satisfied with Couturier on the top line.  I just hope Couturier can show a modicum of offensive creativity.  That line should be hungry to prove a lot of folks wrong.

 

i also like the idea of a kids line.  However, I could see Simmonds swapping with Konecny.  Wouldn't mind some vet presence on Patrick's wing.  That would Konecny and Weal around Filppula, which I kind of like.   

 

If anything, it seems the Flyers will have more flexibility and balanced scoring up front.  

 

I look at the lineup and wonder how heavy this team will play.  Just don't see a lot of grit/competitiveness mixed in.  Still think you need to be tough/competitive to play against in the trenches to win in this league.  

[AJgoal]

Let's not read too much into a line combination on one day of training camp. Note that Giroux said that he may never play a shift on wing this season later in the same interview.

[OccamsRazor]

The five players that have been returned to their junior teams were mostly expected.

 

(F) Connor Bunnaman (Kitchener – OHL)
(F) Pascal Laberge (Victoriaville – QMJHL)
(F) Ivan Kosorenkov (Victoriaville – QMJHL)
(F) German Rubtsov (Chicoutimi – QMJHL)
(G) Carter Hart (Everett – WHL)

(F) Carsen Twarynski

 

Unfortunately the Flyers did not sign Kosorenkov to an entry-level contract. He was only in camp as an invitee and many thought he deserved a contract.

 

 

Philippe Myers highlights the players sent back down to the Phantoms.

 

(F) Nicolas Aube-Kubel
(F) Radel Fazleev
(F) Tyrell Goulbourne
(F) Danick Martel
(F) Mikhail Vorobyev
(D) James de Haas
(D) Mark Friedman
(D) Maxim Lamarche
(D) Philippe Myers
(D) Reece Willcox
(G) Leland Irving
(G) John Muse

 

Can't believe they didn't sign Kosorenkov to a deal.......shocked.

[AJgoal]

Mostly expected. Surprised Kosorenkov is going back without a deal. Vorobyev will push hard for a spot next season.

 

Per NHL.com, Twarynski is in Lehigh, not juniors.

[OccamsRazor]

45 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Mostly expected. Surprised Kosorenkov is going back without a deal. Vorobyev will push hard for a spot next season.

 

Per NHL.com, Twarynski is in Lehigh, not juniors.

 

He maybe right now but he doesn't have an entry level contract or an AHL contract so until then he will be sent packing soon.

[ruxpin]

So, I know it's preseason and there's more interest in seeing what people can do and how they go together, but at some point is there some concern that this team still isn't scoring?

 

Is that because we're too busy tinkering or is it a symptom of whatever Hakstol's philosophy (or whatever) is?

[AJgoal]

Alt, Knight, Brennan, Carey, O'Neill, and Varone on waivers. Not unexpected, they just had to wait until today to actually be able to send them down.

 

Remaining in camp:

 

Forwards (18)

Giroux

Voracek

Simmonds

Couturier

Filpulla

Konecny

Raffl

Weise

Lehtera

Read

Patrick

Lindblom

Weal

Leier

Laughton

McDonald

Vecchione

Bardreau

 

Defensemen (8)

Gostisbehere

Provorov

Gudas

Morin

Manning

Hagg

Sanheim

MacDonald

 

Goalies (3)

Elliot

Neuvirth

Lyon

 

[OccamsRazor]

So Bill M.'s point of view which i respect a lot....he has Patrick making it...

 

Hi Bill!

What is your prediction on:

1) Number of rookies in the lineup opening night

2) Number of players with $1M+ Cap hits assigned to the Phantoms
- fls13

1) 4 (Patrick, Lindblom, Morin, Hägg).

2) 1 (Read).

 

[brelic]

Wow, Sanheim is 6'4", 205lbs now. I remember a few years ago, Hextall commented that he looked like a beanpole. I think he was in the 180s.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Injuries have appeared again....

 

 

When practice kicked up on Saturday morning, though, two more bodies were missing from the ice- forwards Cole Bardreau and Colin McDonald. Both will miss several weeks, Bardreau with an upper-body injury and McDonald with a lower-body injury.

[brelic]

Meltzer seems to think the odd men out on forward are Vecchione, Leier, and possibly Read. On defense, it looks like Sanheim.

 

So, Patrick and Lindblom will likely make the final roster. Hextall said he'd rather not carry 8 defensemen.

 

We'd be looking at:

 

Forwards (14)

Giroux

Voracek

Couturier

Weal

Patrick

Simmonds

Konecny

Filppula

Lindblom

Raffl

Laughton

Weise

Lehtera

Read

 

Defense (7)

Provorov

MacDud

Ghost

Morin

Hagg

Gudas

Manning

 

Goal (2)

Elliott

Neuvirth

 

Thoughts?

[AJgoal]

Pretty much what I figured. I'd probably consider demoting Read for Leier. I'd like to see MacDonald moved to Siberia, too, but I think they wanted Sanheim to get another year to work on his defense. I really wouldn't be surprised to see MacDonald in the AHL next season.

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Pretty much what I figured. I'd probably consider demoting Read for Leier. I'd like to see MacDonald moved to Siberia, too, but I think they wanted Sanheim to get another year to work on his defense. I really wouldn't be surprised to see MacDonald in the AHL next season.

 

We have a lot of salary burdens, it seems. Lehtera, Weise, Read, MacDonald. 

 

To a lesser extent (because despite the salary, he still *does* produce), Voracek. Same with Giroux. But that's the price you pay for the top players on your team.

[vis]

 

32 minutes ago, brelic said:

Meltzer seems to think the odd men out on forward are Vecchione, Leier, and possibly Read. On defense, it looks like Sanheim.

 

So, Patrick and Lindblom will likely make the final roster. Hextall said he'd rather not carry 8 defensemen.

 

None of that really would surprise me, I suppose.

 

I do think (or at least hope), MacDonald is on a short leash and Sanheim gets the call sooner rather than later.  I do think Sanheim needs to improve in his own end a bit, but so does MacDonald.  I guess the vet gets the benefit of the doubt to start the season.

 

Curious if they leave Giroux at LW or play him at C.  

 

Not surprised that Weise is in over Vecchione, Leier and Read given his signing last year and contract.  Laughton received a lot of praise from the organization for his two-way play last year in the AHL, so I get why he is in the mix.  Really wish Leier would get a shot in the bottom 6, though.

 

I think Patrick is in for a rough year.  He will probably start slow and hopefully get his legs under him by December or so.  He's in a tough spot for a rookie, coming off the injury.  I still don't know what to make of Lindblom, yet.

 

With 14 forwards on the roster, which two actually sit?

[brelic]

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

None of that really would surprise me, I suppose.

 

I do think (or at least hope), MacDonald is on a short leash and Sanheim gets the call sooner rather than later.  I do think Sanheim needs to improve in his own end a bit, but so does MacDonald.  I guess the vet gets the benefit of the doubt to start the season.

 

I think you're right. At least you know exactly what you're getting with MacDud. We know Sanheim has a much higher ceiling, and honestly, there is absolutely no rush. Like I mentioned before, MacDud is kind of an insurance policy of sorts. I'd much rather have MacDud on the roster and Sanheim in the AHL if it means a more well-rounded, prepared Sanheim for the next decade+.

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

Curious if they leave Giroux at LW or play him at C.  

 

I have no problem with G at LW, as long as he still takes his fair share of draws - he is one of the best in the league, after all. 

 

I do have an issue with Couturier at #1C. How many NHL teams have a career sub-40pt center as their #1? At some point, the excuses and expectations need to align with reality that he is not what they want him to be. Why is that so hard to accept? Is it to give Patrick a shot at the #2 spot? In all likelihood, though, I imagine if Filppula centers a line, that one will be the de facto #2 in TOI.

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

Not surprised that Weise is in over Vecchione, Leier and Read given his signing last year and contract.  Laughton received a lot of praise from the organization for his two-way play last year in the AHL, so I get why he is in the mix.  Really wish Leier would get a shot in the bottom 6, though.

 

Me too. I think they need to move a body out for that to happen, though. He's coming close to Alt territory... he'll turn 24 during the season, and I don't know... if he doesn't make the team this year at some point, he might be a career AHLer / tweener.

 

1 hour ago, vis said:

 

I think Patrick is in for a rough year.  He will probably start slow and hopefully get his legs under him by December or so.  He's in a tough spot for a rookie, coming off the injury.  I still don't know what to make of Lindblom, yet.

 

With 14 forwards on the roster, which two actually sit?

 

 

I'm guessing a rotation between Read, Lehtera, and Laughton?

[vis]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I'd much rather have MacDud on the roster and Sanheim in the AHL if it means a more well-rounded, prepared Sanheim for the next decade+.

Yeah, same here regarding Sanheim.  I get why they want him to spend more time in the AHL, especially since he's a d-man. 

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I have no problem with G at LW, as long as he still takes his fair share of draws - he is one of the best in the league, after all.

 

I do have an issue with Couturier at #1C. How many NHL teams have a career sub-40pt center as their #1? At some point, the excuses and expectations need to align with reality that he is not what they want him to be. Why is that so hard to accept? Is it to give Patrick a shot at the #2 spot? In all likelihood, though, I imagine if Filppula centers a line, that one will be the de facto #2 in TOI.

Agree, but now they have their top 2 faceoff men on the same line.  I guess it creates some mismatches, but makes me wonder a bit about the other lines.  Filppula was 47.8% last year, though, he was at 52.9% with the Flyers.  He's been at or above 50% in all of his previous years.

 

Agree with you re: Couturier as #1C.  I do not get it.  If this doesn't work, I do not want to hear any more about wanting him to take on a more offensive role.  I know his fancy stats say he's good 5v5.  That's fine and dandy, but in terms of creativity and actually generating offense - as a #1C should do - I just don't see it.

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

Me too. I think they need to move a body out for that to happen, though. He's coming close to Alt territory... he'll turn 24 during the season, and I don't know... if he doesn't make the team this year at some point, he might be a career AHLer / tweener.

Yeah, fair analogy but Alt contended with a lot of injuries.  I think Leier can be a useful player, but not sure about it on this roster. 

 

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I'm guessing a rotation between Read, Lehtera, and Laughton?

Yeah, Weise as well.  Although, Laughton may have a spot at #4C locked up.

[AJgoal]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I think you're right. At least you know exactly what you're getting with MacDud. We know Sanheim has a much higher ceiling, and honestly, there is absolutely no rush. Like I mentioned before, MacDud is kind of an insurance policy of sorts. I'd much rather have MacDud on the roster and Sanheim in the AHL if it means a more well-rounded, prepared Sanheim for the next decade+.

 

This is exactly it. You can make the argument that Sanheim is ready and he can take his lumps at the NHL level, but I think the FO sees it as the potential difference between him having a 50% chance to hit his ceiling vs. a 75% chance, and they'll send him down for that extra 25%.

 

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

 

I have no problem with G at LW, as long as he still takes his fair share of draws - he is one of the best in the league, after all. 

 

I do have an issue with Couturier at #1C. How many NHL teams have a career sub-40pt center as their #1? At some point, the excuses and expectations need to align with reality that he is not what they want him to be. Why is that so hard to accept? Is it to give Patrick a shot at the #2 spot? In all likelihood, though, I imagine if Filppula centers a line, that one will be the de facto #2 in TOI.

 

I know I've beaten this horse before, but people shouldn't look at overall points when determining whether a player is a 1st liner, 2nd liner, etc, as lines only apply at even strength. To that end, Couturier is at the "2nd line" level, as almost all of his points are at even strength. For example, he scored as many even strength points as Joe Thornton and Matt Duchesne last year, and more than Tyler Johnson, Patrick Marleau, and Ryan O'Reilly, for example (while missing 16 games). He was tied for 39th in ES goals amongst centers with guys like Logan Couture and Jack Eichel. And I know the narrative is that when he came on at the end of the season it was because he was dropped to the 3rd line, but from the trade deadline on, he averaged the most minutes of any Flyers center per game, both at even strength and overall. So he effectively got promoted, not demoted, when Filpulla arrived. And during that time, he outscored every center in the league at ES save McDavid and Getzlaf.

 

The flip side is that Couturier needs to figure out the powerplay if he ever wants to take that next step offensively. Maybe it's been scheme, maybe it's been lack of suitable personnel on the 2nd unit, but he should be able to translate some of his ES scoring to the power play, and he just doesn't. You can't look at other factors to explain all of that, at some point he has to take things in his own hands and make something happen.

 

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

 

Me too. I think they need to move a body out for that to happen, though. He's coming close to Alt territory... he'll turn 24 during the season, and I don't know... if he doesn't make the team this year at some point, he might be a career AHLer / tweener.

 

I don't think Hextall would be opposed to burying Read in the minors if Leier wins a spot. The organization is high on Leier, and Read only has a year left. Plus, Read's a safe callup if needed.

 

3 hours ago, brelic said:

I'm guessing a rotation between Read, Lehtera, and Laughton?

 

Probably. I think the Flyers are looking to Laughton to take that 4C role and run with it, and if he doesn't, you'll see the above rotation. Maybe toss Weise in there too.

[mojo1917]

I think these guys won't be too ******.

 

[AJgoal]

Just now, mojo1917 said:

I think these guys won't be too ******.

 

 

You just made me think of the grounds crew from Major League...