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OccamsRazor

Game 4 Flyers at Predators 10/10/17 8:00 pm

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2 minutes ago, vis said:

Agree.  Someone else must be ghost writing for him.  

You and I combined don't have enough money to pay someone to actually pretend to be me. 

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42 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Yeah really. And I'm not. I mean z let's keep this honest and grounded in reality. 

 

Had he had two rookies who DON'T play together out there and we cough that up, this board would be howling, and that's the God's honest truth. And justifiably. That was simply not a realistic option. 

 

And Todd McLellan? I'm not the one that needs a breathilizer. 

 

Todd McLellan got the oilers deep in the playoffs last yr,  meanwhile the flyers were playing golf!!  You prefer hasktol over a proven NHL coach? They would have got the pt in nash if he was behind the bench. 

 

please answer while sober. :haha:

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3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I've always suspected this. Hell, he's basically admitted it I think. Could be the bear.

Lol. Some bears **** in the woods. This one does it on a keyboard (that oddly happens to be in the woods). 

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1 minute ago, Leach27 said:

 

Todd McLellan got the oilers deep in the playoffs last yr,  meanwhile the flyers were playing golf!!  You prefer hasktol over a proven NHL coach? They would have got the pt in nash if he was behind the bench. 

 

please answer while sober. :haha:

Sober? 

 

And you're actually being serious? 

 

I mean, compare the rosters. Compare the goalies.

 

Yeah, McLellan is better than Hakstol. I'm beginning to think Lauren Hart would be an upgrade. But I wouldn't pull his name out of thin air as my choice. And I probably wouldn't have hired him for Edmonton. I think he under performed in San Jose.  They had a roster that should have done better.

 

Not a big fan. If the criteria is "better than Hakstol" you have a buffet of choices.  

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Sober? 

 

And you're actually being serious? 

 

I mean, compare the rosters. Compare the goalies.

 

Yeah, McLellan is better than Hakstol. I'm beginning to think Lauren Hart would be an upgrade. But I wouldn't pull his name out of thin air as my choice. And I probably wouldn't have hired him for Edmonton. I think he under performed in San Jose.  They had a roster that should have done better.

 

Not a big fan. If the criteria is "better than Hakstol" you have a buffet of choices.  

 

who would be your choice then? The new coach wasn't about "what name can I pull from thin air", it's about who was available at the time.

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18 hours ago, vis said:

I am not understanding you.  I thought your initial point was that they shouldn't have MacD on the top pairing because, as Provorov's partner, that means MacD would be on the ice in critical situations and the team can't afford that.  Was that your point?  If so, I pointed out that there isn't much of an alternative given the roster.  What's your solution?  I don't understand your second sentence.  Provorov was out there, quite a bit with and without MacDonald.  Are you suggesting that Hagg be out there in MacD's place?  I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.

 

I may not have been making much sense.  I guess it was mostly just an effed up situation that we'll probably never see again.  

The points are many and confusing and that's not helping anything.  I think it probably should be Hagg on Provorov's right because Ghost seemed to be most comfortable with Morin.  

 

Is MacDonald playing well enough to be in the lineup?  Yes. The problem is for every good thing he does, he has a terrible penalty or a goal bounces off him or something.  

Is the top pairing with Provorov the best place for him?  I don't know anymore.  Maybe.  It's not ideal.  he's not a top pairing guy as we all know.

Would Morin or Hagg make mistakes like MacDonald is if they were in that position?  Probably would.

 

The question is, if by making those same kinds of mistakes now, will those kids learn from them and will the team be better and free of those mistakes sooner?  

 

Essentially, I think if I have a point, and maybe I'm just frustrated with the lineup, it's that IF THE TEAM is necessarily going to make dumb mistakes that cost games now, I'd rather be it in the name of making fewer of those mistakes and eliminating them entirely sooner... which means playing Morin and Hagg and Sanheim over Mac and Manning.    At least that way, they're on the road to improvement.  

 

 

18 hours ago, vis said:

Tied when?  By the Predators?  Weise didn't see the ice again after his penalty (which came when it was 5-4).  It's the fourth game of the season, not Game 6 of the Conference Finals.  Not a big deal to me at this point.  

 

I know this and I stated elsewhere that it was actually a really good game for the team up until the last 3 minutes when several unimaginable events happened in sequence.  

 

My larger problems with Hakstol after the shock of the end of that game wore off is that he just makes very poor in game decisions and he has done so consistently and while I'm on board with his systems work and for the most part on board with his line combos (If Hextall gave me Weise and Lehtera, I'd probably make Weise my 3LW too), and his D pairings (aside from the fact that Mac would probably be out and Morin would probably be in for me).

 

But as soon as the puck drops, he's inside his head more than he is a part of the game and in the NHL the coach has to be an active participant.  He seems to have no feel for the emotion of his bench and where their heads are at and when he needs to sit them down and reiterate a few basics to calm them down.  He seems to think that he did the work ahead of time and they should just know what to do all game.  But players require coaching.  Refs require massaging.  Opposing coaches need to be provoked sometimes, tweaked.  It's all gamesmanship and a serious part of being an NHL coach.    And now that his systems finally have the personnel to function well, the cracks he has in the rest of the job are becoming more and more apparent.  

 

18 hours ago, vis said:

It became 5-4 at the 7:38 mark in the 3rd period.  You want him to spend his only TO with that much time to go?  By the way, pretty sure the Giroux line was out shortly after that goal...

 

In a playoff game, yes.  in game 4 of the season no.  In this case, 7 minutes left is the time to play the third line with the two young offensive minded kids because if they get scored on, you have time to get it back.  3 mins is not.. because you don't.   2 points is two points.  


Regardless of the wisdom, he has to now know that he can't trust Weise or Mac in that situation any more.  If a guy gets beat by a good play, then fine.  But those two took themselves off the ice entirely because they thought the refs weren't going to make calls.  They're not new here.  They should know better.  You know what's worse than a bad rookie on defense?  NO PLAYER AT ALL.

 

18 hours ago, vis said:

Yeah, I was surprised to see Raffl serving the penalty., but maybe he wanted someone defensively responsible coming out of the box in OT in case they were in trouble in their own zone.

 

Only thing that makes sense to me.  But you've got to survive two really difficult minutes first.  I'd sooner expect you'd see a scoring threat like Konecny or Weal in that box to take the outlet pass and win the game in OT.

 

But it wasn't going to get to OT because they were down two friggin' men because the coach challenged an obviously clean play.

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1 hour ago, Leach27 said:

 

who would be your choice then? The new coach wasn't about "what name can I pull from thin air", it's about who was available at the time.

Oh, you were the one who initially brought up the name? I don't think I saw that post. And I didn't realize we were talking about back then. 

 

McLellan wasn't coming here, though. Period. It's just a non-issue. Would he have been better? Yeah. The right answer? Hard to say, but I don't think so. 

 

Hakstol wouldn't even have been on my radar (primarily because I'd never heard of him). At the time I was really advocating for someone out of the juniors ranks. A la Keenan when he first started. I wasn't hugely opposed to college but was skeptical. It rarely works in football. I didn't have a good case study to go by in hockey but kind of figured college to pro in hockey might have similar pitfalls as college to NFL. 

 

I don't remember now who was available at the time, but I wasn't really excited about anyone available. But thanks for explaining what made McClellan's name come up. That makes sense. I must have picked up on a response to you rather than your actual post. 

 

Apologies on that to @BobbyClarkeFan16 on that, as well, then. 

Edited by ruxpin

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2 hours ago, Leach27 said:

 

Todd McLellan got the oilers deep in the playoffs last yr,  meanwhile the flyers were playing golf!!  You prefer hasktol over a proven NHL coach? They would have got the pt in nash if he was behind the bench. 

 

please answer while sober. :haha:

 

Todd McClellan has the best player on earth and like half a dozen top 5 picks (or the rewards they buy you in trade).  

 

I complain about Hakstol as much as anyone.  More than some, but I'm just sayin' is all.  

 

Hak is pretty damn good by my eyes at X's and O's and systems and game tape and role playing and play driving and everything that happens before and after the game.  

 

He even seems decent in between periods at making adjustments so the team comes out knowing how to deal with that they're seeing on the ice.  

 

He's Pretty damn god awful at most of what happens DURING a game.  

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5 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Seriously?  You'd put out 2 players with 7 NHL games between them nursing a one-goal lead with about 2 minutes left?  No coach worth a pound of s### would do that in anything resembling reality and then have to explain to his team, his GM and the gathered press why he didn't have his #1 pair out there--or at least A pair that had worked together at all.

 

And when you'd lose with that, which you would, everyone would correctly be yelling, "what the hell is that idiot coach doing putting two rookies who haven't played together all game out there in the final minutes protecting a lead?"

 

And yeah you want to get the kids experience, but you're also trying to get a win.  You don't have "the kids" doing trig when they're just getting their feet wet in algebra.     There will be a time for that kind of experience.  Seven games between them ain't it.  

 

He had the right defense out there.  I don't like his choice of forwards.   Even that would have been okay.  They ended up with two unfortunate calls.   The only real travesty was the challenge call.   The other travesty was done in the GM office when he zeroed in and bargain-shopped for a goalie.

 

Todd McLellan?  Seriously?

 

I'm sorry.  Can't say I agree with a single word.

 

 

Saw your other post. We're cool. I like heated discussions. It means the fan base is passionate and cars about what's going on.

 

As for the two rookies, I'd do it and would have no qualms about it. As others have said, it's game 4 of the regular season. Now is the time to take chances with the personnel. As well, if these are the guys who are going to be pillars on the defense gong forward, you have to see how they perform in these situations. If it works, great, because you know they can do the job when called upon. If they can't, then you know that they need more instruction. MacDonald isn't going to get any better. He's the piece of crap that he is. The young guys though, the sky's the limit for them. It's time to start playing them in all situations because eventually, they're going to be called upon to play that role and you can't shelter them forever. 

 

To me, this is all about moving on to the new group of defenders and passing out guys who won't be here much longer. It's time to start accelerating that process.

Edited by BobbyClarkeFan16
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19 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

MacDonald came out of the box when the Preds scored, Weise was still in the box. So he couldn't serve the second penalty. Now, I don't know why MacDonald came out first since he took his penalty second, but this is the league that let a Penguin take a penalty, leave for the locker room as injured with someone else serving the penalty, then allowed him to return to the bench and kill the ensuing PK.

 

I'd have sat Jake or Konecny in the box. You get Weise back to make it 5 on 4, then the threat of one of those two coming out into a 4 on 4 situation in OT. I wouldn't have challenged, though. so...

 

This is not helping me regain any confidence in Hakstol.

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7 hours ago, Leach27 said:

 

Todd McLellan got the oilers deep in the playoffs last yr,  meanwhile the flyers were playing golf!! 

 

 

Yet they have the same amount of Cups....

 

:ph34r:

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Jesus, I'm still mad that Hakstol challenged that damned goal. Even though the Eagles are on tonight, I wish there was a Flyers game to wash that taste out.

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9 hours ago, King Knut said:

Essentially, I think if I have a point, and maybe I'm just frustrated with the lineup, it's that IF THE TEAM is necessarily going to make dumb mistakes that cost games now, I'd rather be it in the name of making fewer of those mistakes and eliminating them entirely sooner... which means playing Morin and Hagg and Sanheim over Mac and Manning.    At least that way, they're on the road to improvement.

I can see that point.  Hard to kind of assess whether that would be the case.  Also, I wonder if putting kids in situations (e.g., nursing a one goal lead in the 3rd period of the last game on a long road trip) is good for them at this point.  As someone else pointed out (maybe @ruxpin), it's all well and good challenging kids, but you don't want to get them over their heads.  

 

9 hours ago, King Knut said:

He seems to have no feel for the emotion of his bench and where their heads are at and when he needs to sit them down and reiterate a few basics to calm them down.  He seems to think that he did the work ahead of time and they should just know what to do all game.  But players require coaching.  Refs require massaging.  Opposing coaches need to be provoked sometimes, tweaked.  It's all gamesmanship and a serious part of being an NHL coach.    And now that his systems finally have the personnel to function well, the cracks he has in the rest of the job are becoming more and more apparent.  

Totally agree with that.  For the record, I am not a big Hakstol fan.  I don't think he knows what he's doing, apart from Xs and Os.

 

9 hours ago, King Knut said:

IRegardless of the wisdom, he has to now know that he can't trust Weise or Mac in that situation any more.  If a guy gets beat by a good play, then fine.  But those two took themselves off the ice entirely because they thought the refs weren't going to make calls.  They're not new here.  They should know better.  You know what's worse than a bad rookie on defense?  NO PLAYER AT ALL.

I think both calls were unfortunate.  The Weise penalty could have gone either way.  The MacDonald penalty was just bad luck.  MacDonald moved his stick to defend against a deke and when he brought it back in front of him it happened to catch the opposing player.s stick (I guess that's what he gets for not backing into his own zone like he normally does...).  Neither penalty was the result of undisciplined or lazy play or penalties that happened because they got beat on the play.  If it was Simmonds and Provorov who got called, no one would be bitching.

 

9 hours ago, King Knut said:

Only thing that makes sense to me.  But you've got to survive two really difficult minutes first.  I'd sooner expect you'd see a scoring threat like Konecny or Weal in that box to take the outlet pass and win the game in OT.

Yeah, I hear that.  Might make sense to have an extra defensive player on hand to kill the penalty to get to OT and then have Konecny sprung for a potential scoring chance.  

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16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

success in the playoffs is all that matters.  

 

Yet they have the same amount of Cups....

 

:ph34r:

 

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    • 5
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      Wow where to begin with this comedy of blunders...   Terrible decision to have Weise and McDud out there at the same time I recall losing a in game OT last season  with this dynamic duo out there...   Horrible call on Weise to begin with...they could have given both players a penalty and just gone 4 on 4.  Horrible play by McDud to take a second penalty.   Then an equally horrible decision to challenge the goal at this stage with the new penalty rules in place for a lost challenge.  I mean this is a Western conference team so getting to OT was a priority.  No way you challenge there unless is is clear cut!!   I would fire the video guy after the game and put Haks on notice as this is a mental back breaker for the confidence of a young team who came back from 3 down only to blow a 2 goal lead and come away with nothing to show for it.   Absolutely sickening!!
    • 4
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       lol...  
    • 4
      Post
      Are you calling him a Democrat? Please leave politics out of this LOL!
    • 4
      Post
      Upon further reflection, I still think Hakstol is dumb.  Unless you are 100% sure you win that challenge, you don't challenge.  Just atrocious decision-making.  Cost his team a point.   Elliott and Giroux didn't have strong games.  MacDonald and Gudas go the ice way to frequently.  Weise and MacD were pretty decent until The Shift.  Oh, and Sean Couturier had an opportunity to clear the puck before the Forsberg goal.  I think he would have liked to have that one back.   Look back at this one when they are hunting for a PO spot at the end of the year...
    • 4
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        Controller disconnected?
    • 4
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        Yeah, but to be fair, the rest of his posts are shite

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