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Game 4 Flyers at Predators 10/10/17 8:00 pm


OccamsRazor

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1 hour ago, vis said:

Who would you rather see in the lineup: Hagg or Morin?

 

Seems to me Morin could replace Hagg as Ghost's partner with no LD vs. RD issue.

 

Of course, if there is an injury during the game Hagg gives you some flexibility you wouldn't have with Morin.  But is that really an issue given the other d-men capable of playing LD vs. RD?

 

Perhaps the theory is that Hagg's steadiness allows Ghost to be more of a risk taker and play his game.  But isn't Morin capable of that as well?

 

To me, the choice is between Hagg and Morin since they seem to fit in similar roles.  Sanheim is a different player than those two.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good question. I paid particular attention to Hagg last game, and like most have said, he plays a quiet but effective game. He's solid on defense and pinning guys to the wall, creating a bit of separation between the opposition and the puck. He makes a smart first pass and is smart when clearing the zone. 

 

Morin plays a similar style, I think. He is just more aggressive, more intimidating, and may have slightly better offensive instincts. 

 

I think it comes down to seniority, and they're giving the nod to Hagg. I'm not too upset by it. Morin will get his shot eventually, and they will all be here. It's a process.

 

I did poke around to see how other defensemen in the league have come along, and it's interesting. Josi didn't really get a regular role until he was 21, and broke out at 24-25. Ryan Ellis got 30ish games when he was 21 and same when he was 22, playing in the AHL the rest of the time. At 23, he got full time NHL duties. 

 

So in that sense, there's really nothing wrong with Morin having to wait a bit longer to get his shot. Does he look NHL ready? I really think he does. But the reality on the blueline is that he's the odd man out because of one really bad contract. It sucks, but what can you do?

 

To answer your question, I'd rather see Morin, personally. But I don't know which is better for the team. It's all a wash in the long term.

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1 hour ago, Honest Bender said:

I love y'all normally, but please don't spoil our first ever banner raising night.

 

Preds look like they're going to really shakeup the forward lines tonight. Unfortunately they still have Matt Freakin' Irwin on the top defense pair with Josi. He is a horrible defenseman and totally neuters Josi. They were paired together due to injury last season and Irwin exceeded expectations for 3-4 games and then started fading throughout the season until he was an abomination in the Cup Final. For whatever reason Lavy only remembers the handful of decent games and forgets the rest of Irwin's career. And of course the Bitetto-Weber pair is also substandard. Meanwhile we kept Samuel Girard to get a 9 game stint and of course he hasn't even dressed yet. So it's probably up to Rinne if the Preds have any chance tonight, regardless of what the new forward lines are able to do. 

 

No Promises :VeryCool:

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6 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Meltzer said the Flyers brass wasn't as impressed as the fans were with Morin during the preseason. And yet they constantly put McDud in the line up on the top pair knowing he constantly makes rookie mistakes 

 

What were they watching? 

 

Meltzer's just taking swings randomly.  he doesn't know.  

 

The fact is that the brass liked Hagg's game in the preseason a little bit better so they went with Hagg.  Fair enough both need NHL minutes to improve at this point and either one in the minors is just hurting the player's development.

 

By rights, Morin is probably farther along in his development than Sanheim, but Sanheim's STYLE is the game they need to complement Gudas in a pairing.  

 

MacDonald is where they run into problems.  Mac is playing good hockey for the most part right now.  That can't be denied.  The team just gave him the A.  That's another problem.  Sends a bad message to your team to send the guy they just voted to give the A to down to the minors (although A could stand for AHL very easily).  

 

In my books, Mac should be sent down and Morin should be playing.  Mac is playing well but will never play better than this.  He may be playing than Morin could right now.  Playing Morin instead of him could cost the team games NOW.  

 

However, playing Morin over Mac NOW makes Morin better sooner and the team better and more of an overall competitor FASTER.    Playing Mac may win a few more games here and there, but it will delay Morin's development and slow the team's ascent to the league's elite (god willing).  

 

It's a conundrum.  It's my belief that Hextall is giving it some time and waiting until he can constructively move someone (and get something back for him) or see if someone gets hurt between now and a given date (thanksgiving maybe?).  

 

Morin being in the lineup over Mac and Lindblom being in the lineup over Weise are my two pet peeves right now and they have me very angry.    Of the two, I'm more sympathetic with Hextall over the Morin / Mac problem.  I do understand his plight.  

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7 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

So in that sense, there's really nothing wrong with Morin having to wait a bit longer to get his shot. Does he look NHL ready? I really think he does. But the reality on the blueline is that he's the odd man out because of one really bad contract. It sucks, but what can you do?

 

So many suggestions...

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7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't like the first line either, but it's mostly because of Voracek.  Although they're looking good really and have a number of even strength goals, so I can't really complain too much.

 

I still don't know why they're not trying Simmer on their RW as the obvious problem is the lack of a finisher.  Replacing Coots isn't going to accomplish much as Val and Patrick both look to be set up men as well.  

 

To me the biggest problem at forward with this team is Weise Weise Weise.  If you send him down and bring up Lindblom, You have someone who can shoot and score to place around the lineup on the left side which enables you to play a bit on the right.

 

 

 

Yup. Weise doesn't really add much value. Period.

 

I will say that I am impressed with how Couturier looks on the top line. I think it's more that he doesn't need to do the heavy lifting which might suit his game more.

 

I noticed that G and Voracek are even +/-, while Coots is +5 (tops on the team). He must have played quite a bit away from the top line? Right now, only two goals come to mind - the PP2 goal that happened right after the penalty expired, so he would have gotten a +. And the OT goal pass to Simmer.

 

Anyway, I'm sure if Lindblom (or Martel) knock on the door and make it hard to ignore them, Weise will take a seat.

 

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40 minutes ago, brelic said:

I noticed that G and Voracek are even +/-, while Coots is +5 (tops on the team). He must have played quite a bit away from the top line? Right now, only two goals come to mind - the PP2 goal that happened right after the penalty expired, so he would have gotten a +. And the OT goal pass to Simmer.

 

Giroux and Voracek were out for the shortie.

 

He was also out for Simmonds' EN goal to seal the first game. Don't know about the 5th.

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Yup. Weise doesn't really add much value. Period.

 

I will say that I am impressed with how Couturier looks on the top line. I think it's more that he doesn't need to do the heavy lifting which might suit his game more.

 

I noticed that G and Voracek are even +/-, while Coots is +5 (tops on the team). He must have played quite a bit away from the top line? Right now, only two goals come to mind - the PP2 goal that happened right after the penalty expired, so he would have gotten a +. And the OT goal pass to Simmer.

 

Anyway, I'm sure if Lindblom (or Martel) knock on the door and make it hard to ignore them, Weise will take a seat.

 

 

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

Giroux and Voracek were out for the shortie.

 

He was also out for Simmonds' EN goal to seal the first game. Don't know about the 5th.

 

Editing this one because it's more shocking than I thought. 

 

The team only has 5 even strength goals.  If this is correct then Couturier has literally been on the ice for EVERY EVEN STRENGTH GOAL they've scored.    Can that be true?

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

So many suggestions...

 

Yeah...  I mean unless you have someone really considering trading for Mac even if you swallow some salary, if there's no real light at the end of his tunnel, you give the Rookies NHL minutes and call up Mac when you absolutely need him like you did two years ago.

 

If however, I'm wrong and they're in first place by Christmas and look somehow and suddenly like a real competitor, I'll eat crow.  

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

Giroux and Voracek were out for the shortie.

 

He was also out for Simmonds' EN goal to seal the first game. Don't know about the 5th.

 

The team has scored 8 goals.  3 on the PP.  That means he was on the ice for all the Even Strength goals somehow.

 

Including both of Simmer's even strength tallies, Giroux's first goal of the season, His own goal and Provorov's goal (which was essentially a PP goal for the 2nd Unit that happened a second or so after the PP technically expired).  

 

Its the second ES goal Simmonds Scored that I can't point to.

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3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

That's 2, but even with that extra minus against G & Jake and their PP goals that don't show up on the +/-, I'm having a hard time coming up with 3 other even strength goals that he was there for that they weren't.  The team only has 5 even strength goals that I can count.  Was he on the ice for every even strength goal so far?  

 

Giroux scored 5 on 5, +1 for G/V (+1) and Couturier (+1)

Simmonds scored ENG 4 on 4. +0 for G/V (+1) and +1 for Couturier (+2)

Provorov scores after PP ends. +0 for G/V (+1), +1 for Couturier (+3)

Antoine Vermette scores, Couturier not on ice. -1 for G/V (even), +0 for Couturier (+3)

Shorthanded goal against. -1 for G/V (-1), +0 for Couturier (+3)

Couturier scores goal. +1 for G/V (even), +1 for Couturier (+4)

Simmonds scores in OT. +0 for G/V (even), +1 for Couturier (+5)

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

The team has scored 8 goals.  3 on the PP.  That means he was on the ice for all the Even Strength goals somehow.

 

Including both of Simmer's even strength tallies, Giroux's first goal of the season, His own goal and Provorov's goal (which was essentially a PP goal for the 2nd Unit that happened a second or so after the PP technically expired).  

 

Its the second ES goal Simmonds Scored that I can't point to.

 

Simmonds' empty-netter. The Flyers were on the power play, then Gudas took the penalty, making it a 4 on 4. San Jose pulled the goalie, so Hakstol went with the Couturier-Simmonds penalty kill duo.

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7 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Simmonds' empty-netter. The Flyers were on the power play, then Gudas took the penalty, making it a 4 on 4. San Jose pulled the goalie, so Hakstol went with the Couturier-Simmonds penalty kill duo.

 

Right... the stat sheet in my brain somehow combined the ENG in game 1 with the OT GWG in Game 3.

 

So even though I'm a Coots defender and he is playing well, I'll go ahead and call it more like a +3 for him considering one was more or less a PP goal and another was a circumstance of  lines changing (although he got an assist on it).

 

Still on a team with 8 total goals, for a guy to be a +5 is kinda bad ass. 

let's see how long he can keep it up!

 

 

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12 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Giroux scored 5 on 5, +1 for G/V (+1) and Couturier (+1)

Simmonds scored ENG 4 on 4. +0 for G/V (+1) and +1 for Couturier (+2)

Provorov scores after PP ends. +0 for G/V (+1), +1 for Couturier (+3)

Antoine Vermette scores, Couturier not on ice. -1 for G/V (even), +0 for Couturier (+3)

Shorthanded goal against. -1 for G/V (-1), +0 for Couturier (+3)

Couturier scores goal. +1 for G/V (even), +1 for Couturier (+4)

Simmonds scores in OT. +0 for G/V (even), +1 for Couturier (+5)

 

 

 

 

 

Mystery solved! Nice breakdown!

 

So Couturier is the ES King it appears.

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@brelic I tend to agree with all of that, though I am curious what the state of Nashville's defense was at the time when Josi and Ellis were coming up and whether there was anyone worthy "blocking" them from a more regular role at the time.  However, I agree that waiting another year for Morin to have a regular spot doesn't necessarily hurt his development.  It does somewhat "hurt" my enjoyment of the team this year...

 

But will there be a regular spot for him next year?  And what about when Myers is ready?  MacDonald and Gudas remain under contract for the next two years.  Will a spot actually open for Morin next year and Myers the next?  How?  I'm starting to wonder whether there will be room at the inn for all these young d-men.  Something is going to have to give.

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I will be the broken record and say that lineups post-Thanksgiving might be more important than now. I suspect Morin will get a nod sooner than later.  AMac is overpriced, but at least serviceable this year.  Agreed that Voracek is not running on all cylinders.  

 

Meanwhile, the track record against the Preds is OK, not great, and it appears to be home ice advantaged:

 

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/opponent.cgi?Nashville_Predators

 

If we hit a hot Rinne, it will be a long night.  I gather we are seeing a rotation in our starting goalies.

 

 

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4 hours ago, King Knut said:

If you send him down and bring up Lindblom

 

I'd pump the brakes on Lindblom.

 

They are waiting for him to be effective down there first. He will get there soon i imagine.

 

Coming over sometimes there is a transition period. He seems to be going through it. Regardless of weather he has been over here before.

 

He has always come over to play on a ATO after his season is over and his confidence is high. Right now it must be low i know he wanted to make the big club. In time it will return.

 

Baby steps.

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5 hours ago, brelic said:

he plays a quiet but effective game. He's solid on defense and pinning guys to the wall, creating a bit of separation between the opposition and the puck. He makes a smart first pass and is smart when clearing the zone. 

 

Yes he is the Anti-Mcdud he skates towards the puck carrier and tries to cut down the angles and separate the puck carrier from the puck.

 

Not just skate casually backwards towards the goalie and eventually screen. He challenges guys!!! It is what i would love to see a defenseman do. Imagine that.

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2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Trade him, his value will never be higher.

 

 

I agree how ever you feel about the kid i think we all can agree this...

 

giphy.gif

 

...was a helluva play!!!!!

 

And it is so good to finally have a true stud #1 Dman for many years to come....can't believe he is only 20!!!!!

 

giphy.gif

 

 

...we have seen Luke, RJ, Vinny, Schultz, Streit and now Read shown the door now if they can just get rid of Mcdud of the team i will be happy (regardless of him playing better)....

 

 

 

....we now have a new whipping boy he goes by the name Dale Weise!!!!!!

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5 hours ago, King Knut said:

Playing Morin instead of him could cost the team games NOW. 

 

 

None of this can be proven just speculation at this point. It would be nice to see him play so he could work on his game.

 

We know what Mcdud is an accident waiting to happen...

 

...however the issue with Morin is he needs some time to play the right side to make him more versatile on the Flyers.

 

So in order to send him down to the Phantoms you would take time away from the other kids trying to develop.

 

They are balanced down there with having enough guys who play on the right side right now.

 

So who do you take time from Myers is playing the right side on the top pair which is where he should be.

 

Friedman is playing the right side on the 2nd pair which is where he should be.

 

And Willcox is playing the right side on the 3rd pair...where he should be so....why take their time away to work on their game???

 

If you send Morin down you are taking away from another young kid. Just not fair.

 

They should've planned for this last year and played Morin on the right side more...especially if they were going to hold it against him.

 

So what happens in the future when Myers and Friedman are ready and then they still have average guys blocking them in the NHL???

 

#planningforthefuture

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2 hours ago, vis said:

@brelic I tend to agree with all of that, though I am curious what the state of Nashville's defense was at the time when Josi and Ellis were coming up and whether there was anyone worthy "blocking" them from a more regular role at the time.  However, I agree that waiting another year for Morin to have a regular spot doesn't necessarily hurt his development.  It does somewhat "hurt" my enjoyment of the team this year...

 

But will there be a regular spot for him next year?  And what about when Myers is ready?  MacDonald and Gudas remain under contract for the next two years.  Will a spot actually open for Morin next year and Myers the next?  How?  I'm starting to wonder whether there will be room at the inn for all these young d-men.  Something is going to have to give.

 

I really believe MacDud will be bought out after this year. It’s not sustainable to keep him around without hurting the long term plan. A 4 year dead cap hit is better than a 6 year dead cap hit if they bought him out for this season. 

 

As for Nashville, from what I can see the guys ahead of Ellis and Josi were Weber, Suter, Kevin Klein, Scott Hannan and Hal Gill.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I really believe MacDud will be bought out after this year. It’s not sustainable to keep him around without hurting the long term plan. A 4 year dead cap hit is better than a 6 year dead cap hit if they bought him out for this season. 

 

As for Nashville, from what I can see the guys ahead of Ellis and Josi were Weber, Suter, Kevin Klein, Scott Hannan and Hal Gill.

 

 

 

Theres no need to buy him out until the end of next season. 

 

You dont need that that cap space next year, but if you're going to resign Simmonds (and I can't say that they are) then they may need it. 

 

Which leads us to the inevitable conclusion that MacDonald should be in the AHL right now.  

 

He may be  in fact be better than Manning, but manning could get claimed.  If someone wants to claim Mac... I will buy them a round.  

 

Mac's a flyer for two more seasons.  But can he be a phantom ASAP?   Please?  

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I agree how ever you feel about the kid i think we all can agree this...

 

giphy.gif

 

...was a helluva play!!!!!

 

And it is so good to finally have a true stud #1 Dman for many years to come....can't believe he is only 20!!!!!

 

giphy.gif

 

 

...we have seen Luke, RJ, Vinny, Schultz, Streit and now Read shown the door now if they can just get rid of Mcdud of the team i will be happy (regardless of him playing better)....

 

....we now have a new whipping boy he goes by the name Dale Weise!!!!!!

 

It was a helluva play by Coots. I've always felt his vision was excellent, and he's able to make plays. I just want him to work on his shot and his skating. Some think he's done the latter. Hard to say. His shot sucks though.

 

Agreed on Provs. He's the reason I watch.

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