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Game 4 Flyers at Predators 10/10/17 8:00 pm


OccamsRazor

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2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Best Flyers through 4 games (in no particular order):

 

Provs

Cooter

Simmonds

Konecny

Weal

Filppula

Ghost

 

Honorable mention Laughton Leier and Raffl, who despite being on the ice for some bone headed mistakes that lead to goals, have changed the make up of the 4th line on this team.  

 

They needed 2 more minutes last night.  

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35 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Best Flyers through 4 games (in no particular order):

 

Provs

Cooter

Simmonds

Konecny

Weal

Filppula

Ghost

I agree completely....

but

but

but

where are our $8M men?

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17 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

One thing I know through 4 games...the goaltending carousel continues. Elliott isn't any better than Mason.

He was solid the first two games and played bad last game. Relax. No one said he was going to be any better than Mason anyways . He's a stopgap and was willing to come here knowing that. Mason wasn't. He's fine for the next 2 seasons when we won't be contenders.

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2 minutes ago, fan4ever said:

I agree completely....

but

but

but

where are our $8M men?

 

I would actually add Giroux to that list. He's played well so far - he looks faster and more dialed in. 

 

I guess I'll be the contrarian in this thread. 

 

I thought the Flyers were great last night. If I measure how they played against my expectations for this season, they were great.

 

I could list all the little things, but at the end of the day, the Flyers did not look outmatched in ANY of their 4 games. When you think about their opponents (yes, some had significant injuries), I'd say that's a huge plus. I did not expect that coming in to the season.

 

They worked hard in each game, and gritted out a .500 record on a really tough west coast road trip to open the season. This team is so darn FAST! Man, Konecny is a speed demon and will only get better. Patrick is showing more and more flashes of brilliance. I thought Provorov had an uneven game, which is normal for a 20 year old, and it's a good thing for his development. I didn't notice Sanheim much (he only played 12 mins).

 

The goaltending, on the other hand.... 

 

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5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I would actually add Giroux to that list. He's played well so far - he looks faster and more dialed in. 

 

I guess I'll be the contrarian in this thread. 

 

I thought the Flyers were great last night. If I measure how they played against my expectations for this season, they were great.

 

I could list all the little things, but at the end of the day, the Flyers did not look outmatched in ANY of their 4 games. When you think about their opponents (yes, some had significant injuries), I'd say that's a huge plus. I did not expect that coming in to the season.

 

They worked hard in each game, and gritted out a .500 record on a really tough west coast road trip to open the season. This team is so darn FAST! Man, Konecny is a speed demon and will only get better. Patrick is showing more and more flashes of brilliance. I thought Provorov had an uneven game, which is normal for a 20 year old, and it's a good thing for his development. I didn't notice Sanheim much (he only played 12 mins).

 

The goaltending, on the other hand.... 

 

Yes, and if the goaltending is bad (again), it negates your good (A) Offense (B) Defense and (C) special teams, and deflates your team. They should have won that game yesterday if not for poor coaching and goaltending.

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6 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I would actually add Giroux to that list. He's played well so far - he looks faster and more dialed in. 

 

I guess I'll be the contrarian in this thread. 

 

I thought the Flyers were great last night. If I measure how they played against my expectations for this season, they were great.

 

I could list all the little things, but at the end of the day, the Flyers did not look outmatched in ANY of their 4 games. When you think about their opponents (yes, some had significant injuries), I'd say that's a huge plus. I did not expect that coming in to the season.

 

They worked hard in each game, and gritted out a .500 record on a really tough west coast road trip to open the season. This team is so darn FAST! Man, Konecny is a speed demon and will only get better. Patrick is showing more and more flashes of brilliance. I thought Provorov had an uneven game, which is normal for a 20 year old, and it's a good thing for his development. I didn't notice Sanheim much (he only played 12 mins).

 

The goaltending, on the other hand.... 

 

 

I see your point. We are faster, more tenacious, our forecheck is better. Lots to like. Like last night, Weal: the guy battles!

 

Areas for improvement are: faceoffs, hitting (I want to be tougher, play bigger), passing/fundamentals (how many passes were in the feet last night? A dozen at least. Too many)

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55 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

One thing I know through 4 games...the goaltending carousel continues. Elliott isn't any better than Mason.

 

Were folks expecting a major upgrade of any sort anyway? I have no reason to believe Elliott is any better than Mason. He's never been a superstar anywhere else, why would he be one now for us? His only good years were playing for a team with one of the best defensive corps, defensive systems, and defensive coaches of the last decade. Even Mason could have shared a Vezina on those STL teams.

 

Anyway, this was just one game folks. I've actually been fairly impressed with the start of the season. We're going to have stinkers. That's how it works. Let's not forget, this is still a rebuilding team. Already several of the youngsters have been impressive, which in my mind is probably the most important part of this season. They need experience and competition at this level to reach their potential.

 

I do get the flak on Hakstol though, and I do agree with many folks here that his line up decisions in particular seem questionable. That said, I'm with @brelic in saying that Giroux on the wing with Couts at center seems to be really paying off. Maybe he'll see the light with Voracek in the near future and move him to the 2nd line or something. Give TK a shot on the top. The kid deserves it.

 

Honestly some of the decisions feel like the brass is working from a seniority and salary perspective, rather than using a merit-based approach. Voracek is getting paid like a franchise winger, so he's getting franchise minutes. McDud is receiving a paycheck that is also well above his merit grade, and he's getting minutes to reflect that. I personally think that's a load of crud, but what can you do? In both cases, Hakstol seems determined to prove to those of us watching that their bloated contracts are actually warranted.

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Regardless of what everyone says, this start of the season Western Road trip was a success. The team looks faster, Giroux and Voracek look better, Provorov is Dolph Lundgren, Manning isn't a regular, Patrick looks good...lots of positives to take from it 

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55 minutes ago, brelic said:

The goaltending, on the other hand.... 

 

I meant it more tongue in cheek for the most part (I do have a "G" jersey after all).....

 

But you are right, the goaltending is making me very nervous.  The only consolation last night was that Rinne gave up 5.

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1 minute ago, fan4ever said:

 

I meant it more tongue in cheek for the most part (I do have a "G" jersey after all).....

 

But you are right, the goaltending is making me very nervous.  The only consolation last night was that Rinne gave up 5.

 

Yeah, put it this way - the goaltending isn't any different from last year. It's unreliable at best. But, whatever... it's short term, so there's that. We all hope Hart can be that guy, but I'm sure they thought the same of Leland Irving. 1st round pick, better junior numbers than Hart, etc. It's such a crap shoot!

 

The good thing is we have several more high-reward options - Sandstrom, Ustimenko, Lyon, and maybe one of the others (Tomek, Fedotov, Stolarz) surprises too.

 

Surely one of them can emerge as a #1, right??? 

 

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2 hours ago, King Knut said:

But no matter how much we compliment him, and no matter how many decent plays he makes, last night just proves that he doesn't belong on the top pairing with Provorov because they NEED provorov out there in the last minutes of a one goal game, but they literally can't afford to put MacDonald out there in the last minutes of a one goal game.

Who else do you put out there in that situation?  On this team, he is among the top 4 defensive defensemen on the roster (Provorov, Gudas, Hagg and MacDonald).  I would not put Sanheim and Ghost out there.  In last night's scenario, Gudas and Provorov already spent time killing the 5v3 penalties.  Somewhat hard to put Hagg in that scenario, I think.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

That said, why the hell of all people was Weise out there in the waning minutes of a close game?  

Eh, I'm not going to bitch about having Weise out there towards the end of his shift with more than two minutes to go with a road lead, especially when his line had a strong game.  I could see maybe some annoyance with the fourth line not getting more time down the stretch, but maybe the plan was for that to happen once the clock ticked below 2:00 minutes.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

I know Giroux and Voracek played a soft first and third period, but Couturier has to be able to be out there in these situations BEFORE it's a 2 man disadvantage.   This is what the new and improved 4th line is for.  Filppula and Simmonds are strong defensively as well.  

Pretty sure Couturier had just come off the ice and the Filppula line before that.  Seems like it was a natural rotation, though, as I said above, I think there is some argument to the fourth line having more ice time down the stretch.  Doesn't look like they got a lot of time in the third period, but they were on the ice in the third when Nashville scored to make it 5-4.

 

Thought it was interesting that Hakstol chose Raffl to serve the penalty.  Maybe he doesn't think much of that line's defensive chops yet?

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14 minutes ago, vis said:

Who else do you put out there in that situation?  On this team, he is among the top 4 defensive defensemen on the roster (Provorov, Gudas, Hagg and MacDonald).  I would not put Sanheim and Ghost out there.  In last night's scenario, Gudas and Provorov already spent time killing the 5v3 penalties.  Somewhat hard to put Hagg in that scenario, I think.

 

Well you've hit the nail on the head haven't you?  

 

But as far as Hagg goes, I don't see any philosophical reason Provo couldn't have been out there.   

 

14 minutes ago, vis said:

Eh, I'm not going to bitch about having Weise out there towards the end of his shift with more than two minutes to go with a road lead, especially when his line had a strong game.  I could see maybe some annoyance with the fourth line not getting more time down the stretch, but maybe the plan was for that to happen once the clock ticked below 2:00 minutes.

 

Bill Buckner.  Thats why. 

Look, whether I agree with that re: Weise or I don't (and I don't), The larger issue is that it's not just Weise, it's Patrick and Konecney as well.  An offensively minded 20 year old and a 19 year old who's played 4 NHL games playing with the guy who has been notably your team's weakest player until this night and who has been the direct party responsible for a few bad goals already.  

 

Why on earth are you not shortening your bench and putting your tightest Defensive teams out there after the game was tied? 

 

14 minutes ago, vis said:

Pretty sure Couturier had just come off the ice and the Filppula line before that.  Seems like it was a natural rotation.

 

 

I don't think you do a natural rotation at that point.  

 

14 minutes ago, vis said:

Pretty sure Couturier had just come off the ice and the Filppula line before that.  Seems like it was a natural rotation, though, as I said above, I think there is some argument to the fourth line having more ice time down the stretch.  Doesn't look like they got a lot of time in the third period, but they were on the ice in the third when Nashville scored to make it 5-4.

 

 

This is a fair enough point.  Laughton, Gudas and Sanheim each got caught flat footed in this moment.  

If it's me, I'm calling a timeout after the 5-4 goal.  After what your team did to battle back and take a 2 goal lead, you do what you need to get your best guys out there.  A timeout is the easiest way to do that if they're tired.  

 

14 minutes ago, vis said:

Thought it was interesting that Hakstol chose Raffl to serve the penalty.  Maybe he doesn't think much of that line's defensive chops yet?

 

This was the majorly idiotic move no one's had time to talk about yet becasue we've been so upset by the crap that lead to it.  Your team is already down 2 men.  If you don't challenge, you're tied, but you get a man back.  If you lose the challenge, the game is tied and you've just ensured that your team will remain 2 men down and will be on the PK for the remainder of the game and the beginning of OT.  

 

The risk is too great right there.

 

So when he does lose the challenge, he could very easily put Weise back in the box couldn't he?  Your team's worse player over the first 4 games who just helped make it a tie game?  Or maybe Konecney or a Patrick or a Sanheim, who wouldn't be playing in a 5 on 3 or a 5 on 4  or even a 4-3 in OT anyway?  

 

 

But no.  Genius puts in one of his best skating most responsible defensive forwards over the past 3 seasons.  Genius move.  

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah, put it this way - the goaltending isn't any different from last year. It's unreliable at best. But, whatever... it's short term, so there's that. We all hope Hart can be that guy, but I'm sure they thought the same of Leland Irving. 1st round pick, better junior numbers than Hart, etc. It's such a crap shoot!

 

The good thing is we have several more high-reward options - Sandstrom, Ustimenko, Lyon, and maybe one of the others (Tomek, Fedotov, Stolarz) surprises too.

 

Surely one of them can emerge as a #1, right??? 

 

 

Let's see how they respond. The end of that game was such a cluster on so many levels that I can't condemn Elliott outright.

That said, he hasn't looked good.  He hasn't been utterly terrible, but his whole approach is a bit terrifying and shaky looking.   All that said, Elliott was never going to be the answer and Hextall was clear that he never wanted to sign someone, but the kinda had to.  

 

If it's me, I'm bringing up Lyon now for a few games and forcing Hak to give him some time to put Elliott and Neuvy on notice. Let's face it... can he really be worse than Elliott was last night?    It's really too bad about Stolarz.  I hope he recovers, but that's a tough break. 

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1 hour ago, RJ8812 said:

Regardless of what everyone says, this start of the season Western Road trip was a success. The team looks faster, Giroux and Voracek look better, Provorov is Dolph Lundgren, Manning isn't a regular, Patrick looks good...lots of positives to take from it 

 

You're absolutely right.  They should have come back from this trip 3-1 and they almost did and no one expected that.  I don't think anyone would have thought that they'd even return 2-2 and they do look better in almost every regard except goaltending which seems like it's Crapus Quo.   The bright side is that Pekka friggin' Rinne looked just as bad last night (almost as bad as he did those two games int he finals).

 

I'm mostly encouraged by everything but VERY concerned about Hakstol's in game decision making.  He and Knoblach made some great adjustments and retook control of that game completely.  It was impressive considering how chaotic and off it looked in the first.

 

But it's as if they expected Lavvy and company to lie down.  How on earth after 3 years does Hakstol not KNOW HOW TO TAKE A TIME OUT?!?!

 

I can't even estimate how much that ONE THING has cost this team.  You don't even need to tell them anything new.  You just STOP.  Give your good guys a breather and reiterate what they need to do that they've stopped doing.  You CHILL EVERYONE OUT and get them to go back to work.  

 

Lavvy's a genius at it but Hak is beyond remedial.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Just WTF is Giroux doing here???? Anyone...

 

giphy.gif

 

If you go back about 30 seconds on this he half-assed it for his whole shift.  I remember thinking it before this goal even happened.  

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18 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Bill Buckner.  Thats why. 

Look, whether I agree with that re: Weise or I don't (and I don't), The larger issue is that it's not just Weise, it's Patrick and Konecney as well.  An offensively minded 20 year old and a 19 year old who's played 4 NHL games playing with the guy who has been notably your team's weakest player until this night and who has been the direct party responsible for a few bad goals already.  

 

Why on earth are you not shortening your bench and putting your tightest Defensive teams out there after the game was tied? 

 

 

I don't think you do a natural rotation at that point.  

 

 

 

I get what you're saying... but isn't that exactly how rookies are going to learn? They're going to make mistakes, and we're going to lose games because of it. I remember Laviolette (I think?) putting an 18-year old Couturier out on a 5-on-3 kill late in a game against Boston. And IIRC, it was like Couturier's 3rd NHL game.

 

I say that's how these kids learn!

 

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55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Well you've hit the nail on the head haven't you?  

 

But as far as Hagg goes, I don't see any philosophical reason Provo couldn't have been out there.   

I am not understanding you.  I thought your initial point was that they shouldn't have MacD on the top pairing because, as Provorov's partner, that means MacD would be on the ice in critical situations and the team can't afford that.  Was that your point?  If so, I pointed out that there isn't much of an alternative given the roster.  What's your solution?  I don't understand your second sentence.  Provorov was out there, quite a bit with and without MacDonald.  Are you suggesting that Hagg be out there in MacD's place?  I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.

 

55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Bill Buckner.  Thats why. 

Look, whether I agree with that re: Weise or I don't (and I don't), The larger issue is that it's not just Weise, it's Patrick and Konecney as well.  An offensively minded 20 year old and a 19 year old who's played 4 NHL games playing with the guy who has been notably your team's weakest player until this night and who has been the direct party responsible for a few bad goals already.  

 

Why on earth are you not shortening your bench and putting your tightest Defensive teams out there after the game was tied? 

 

Tied when?  By the Predators?  Weise didn't see the ice again after his penalty (which came when it was 5-4).  It's the fourth game of the season, not Game 6 of the Conference Finals.  Not a big deal to me at this point.  Maybe Hakstol wants to reward that line or have them develop more confidence by playing them in the waning minutes of a road game.

 

55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

If it's me, I'm calling a timeout after the 5-4 goal.  After what your team did to battle back and take a 2 goal lead, you do what you need to get your best guys out there.  A timeout is the easiest way to do that if they're tired.

It became 5-4 at the 7:38 mark in the 3rd period.  You want him to spend his only TO with that much time to go?  By the way, pretty sure the Giroux line was out shortly after that goal...

 

55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

But no.  Genius puts in one of his best skating most responsible defensive forwards over the past 3 seasons.  Genius move.

Yeah, I was surprised to see Raffl serving the penalty., but maybe he wanted someone defensively responsible coming out of the box in OT in case they were in trouble in their own zone.

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23 minutes ago, vis said:

Are you suggesting that Hagg be out there in MacD's place?  I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.

 

 

I would be he has played pretty damn good so far. And he plays the right side.

 

However he plays with Ghost so then you would have him back with Ghost screwing him up and i think Ivan can handle a suspect partner than Ghost can....Flyers can't afford for Ghost to go back into the tank from having a not so good partner.

 

And since Mcdud isn't getting benched. And i don't think Sanheim is ready for top pair minutes with Ivan just yet....just leave it like it is i guess.

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Almost 20 hours later and I'm still mad at Hakstol for that challenge.

 

I got to say, I am loving the way this team is playing. Aggressive, skating hard all night, creating chances...It's been a really solid start to the year. The kids have played pretty well, and the lines have looked solid overall. That 4 game run through California & Nashville looked really daunting, and the Flyers not only won 2, they were in the two losses right up till the end. .

 

It's likely only going to get better when the kids that aren't here are fully integrated, as well.

 

But, damnit, why did he have to challenge that damned goal?

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2 hours ago, King Knut said:

This was the majorly idiotic move no one's had time to talk about yet becasue we've been so upset by the crap that lead to it.  Your team is already down 2 men.  If you don't challenge, you're tied, but you get a man back.  If you lose the challenge, the game is tied and you've just ensured that your team will remain 2 men down and will be on the PK for the remainder of the game and the beginning of OT. 

 

MacDonald came out of the box when the Preds scored, Weise was still in the box. So he couldn't serve the second penalty. Now, I don't know why MacDonald came out first since he took his penalty second, but this is the league that let a Penguin take a penalty, leave for the locker room as injured with someone else serving the penalty, then allowed him to return to the bench and kill the ensuing PK.

 

I'd have sat Jake or Konecny in the box. You get Weise back to make it 5 on 4, then the threat of one of those two coming out into a 4 on 4 situation in OT. I wouldn't have challenged, though. so...

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Now, correct me if I'm wrong on the GWG. What I saw was Elliot holding the pipe with his right side, and instead of squaring to the shooter, rotating back towards the goal line opening up more room to the far post for Forsberg. Was I just seeing things?

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8 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Now, correct me if I'm wrong on the GWG. What I saw was Elliot holding the pipe with his right side, and instead of squaring to the shooter, rotating back towards the goal line opening up more room to the far post for Forsberg. Was I just seeing things?

 

No were not.....in fact it looks like he moves out the way Bryz like ducking on a goal...

 

giphy.gif

 

....SMFH......turrible goaltending all game....besides the first semi breakaway....kids fought so hard to win that...just hard to take...

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