Morin sent to Phantoms

[fanaticV3.0]

On 10/11/2017 at 2:46 PM, vis said:

Feel bad for the kid.  

 

He will be back up as soon as there is an injury.

 

He brings an element this team lacks, though.  Team is soft.

 

 

He should be, but I don't know he will be. The organ-I-zation seems to not think all that highly of him.

[fanaticV3.0]

The tone of Martinez's tweet puzzles and worries me:

 

 

What does he mean he's not sure what's next for him? That is something you say when the future is uncertain and how the hell is the future uncertain for a kid with one game of NHL experience?

[fanaticV3.0]

On 10/11/2017 at 5:26 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Not shocked it was expected. Meh. Don't agree with it but who am i to question Hak.

 

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

The tone of Martinez's tweet puzzles and worries me:

 

 

What does he mean he's not sure what's next for him? That is something you say when the future is uncertain and how the hell is the future uncertain for a kid with one game of NHL experience?

 

His future's a lot more certain than mine was at his age.  

This is a crappy circumstance.  I don't agree with Hextall's tack.  I think he's being too cautious.  Morin isn't down because Morin needs more time.  Morin is down because Hextall and Hakstol do not perceive him to be miles ahead of MacDonald and Morin is waiver exempt.  

 

But at his salary, so is Mac essentially.  

Is he playing well enough that someone could claim him?  IMHO only if that team has a huge season ending injury in their own top 4 Blue line.  It's a lot of money for several more years.  

 

At the most, I could see the Canadiens taking a flyer on him (no pun intended) as they have the cap space and just dumped Streit... but they dumped Streit because he was being outplayed, so it's not like they have a gaping hole.  

 

 

 

[fanaticV3.0]

24 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

His future's a lot more certain than mine was at his age.  

This is a crappy circumstance.  I don't agree with Hextall's tack.  I think he's being too cautious.  Morin isn't down because Morin needs more time.  Morin is down because Hextall and Hakstol do not perceive him to be miles ahead of MacDonald and Morin is waiver exempt.  

 

But at his salary, so is Mac essentially.  

Is he playing well enough that someone could claim him?  IMHO only if that team has a huge season ending injury in their own top 4 Blue line.  It's a lot of money for several more years.  

 

At the most, I could see the Canadiens taking a flyer on him (no pun intended) as they have the cap space and just dumped Streit... but they dumped Streit because he was being outplayed, so it's not like they have a gaping hole.  

 

 

 

 

I don't think there being cautious. I think they don't have a lot of faith in him. I don't do preseason sports, but everything I have read indicates he had a good  camp. He should have made this team.

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

I don't think there being cautious. I think they don't have a lot of faith in him. I don't do preseason sports, but everything I have read indicates he had a good  camp. He should have made this team.

 

They're not idiots.  He's completely NHL ready.  Hagg edged him out for the roster spot pre-allotted for a rookie.

For the other spots, he'd have to beat out Mac and Manning.

 

Not only does he have to play better than them, but he has to play better enough to eliminate concerns that they'd get picked up off Waivers.  

 

They're playing it safe.  

If you start the season with Mac and Manning on the team, when someone gets hurt (not that I want anyone hurt, but if someone has to be hurt, I hope it's one of them) you can bring Morin up immediately.  That's totally safe.  You don't risk losing anyone and you keep all your players.

 

Conversely if you start the season with Morin and Sanheim and Hagg on the NHL roster, you risk losing Mac and Manning through Waivers.  Mac less likely, Manning more to very likely IMHO.

 

If that happens, and someone gets hurt or if Morin or Sanheim aren't cutting it, because they're young... then what?  You're stuck.  

 

I think that's the reasoning behind this.  I don't like it, but I get it.

 

The counter argument is that YOU CAN CARRY 8 D-Men.  And since they're not carrying 2 extra forwards, WHY NOT CARRY 8 D-men?

 

Why not drop Morin and Sanheim both into the lineup?

 

You can do it in a way that means you never have 3 rookies playing on the same night, at least not until you're more comfortable with them.  If you're going to drop Morin in with Provo (so he can play the right side) then on those nights, put in Manning if you're so concerned about rookie mistakes.  If there's any D man on this team who can roll with two different partners, it's Provo.

 

On the other side, you're already asking Gudas to play with a different guy ever other night, so who cares?

 

The argument is that of getting them minutes instead of press box time, but at this point in Morin and Sanheim's development, AHL minutes aren't going to do squat for them.  They need to get better at NHL hockey.  Period.  

 

I know I'm sort of arguing with myself here (or at least what I perceive to be H&H's positions) but I think they're making mistakes on this one and it's frustrating me.  

 

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

14 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

I don't think there being cautious. I think they don't have a lot of faith in him. I don't do preseason sports, but everything I have read indicates he had a good  camp. He should have made this team.

 

Everything that I've read has to do with the fact that the Flyers have all the left side defensemen they need. That's the one flaw about Morin - he can only play the left side. The problem is Philadelphia is that there are two GIANT pieces of dog excrement that are taking up spots on the blue line and the head coach (who's a complete moron) loves those two wastes of space. Until Manning and MacDonald are shown the door, nothing is going to change. Once they do get shown the door, the following happens:

 

Hagg moves to the right side of Provorov

Morin is then on the left side of Gostisbehere

Sanheim moves back to the left side and Gudas takes the right side

 

As mentioned though, the issue is that the idiot head coach loves Manning and MacDonald and will do everything in his power to keep them in the lineup. It also doesn't help that our GM, who is slowing being diseased by the Hakstol syndrome, is also a willing participant in this. Hextall was the same guy who proclaimed that "any young player that's ready is going to play" and "they'll find a way to work him into the lineup", which is clearly a load of crap. Don't get me started on this. I'm onboard with firing the jackass behind the bench, but I'm starting to get on board with possibly removing Hextall as the GM. There's nurturing your prospects, and then there's overkill, which we're witnessing right now and Hextall is absolutely guilty of that.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

They're not idiots.  He's completely NHL ready.  Hagg edged him out for the roster spot pre-allotted for a rookie.

For the other spots, he'd have to beat out Mac and Manning.

 

Not only does he have to play better than them, but he has to play better enough to eliminate concerns that they'd get picked up off Waivers.  

 

They're playing it safe.  

If you start the season with Mac and Manning on the team, when someone gets hurt (not that I want anyone hurt, but if someone has to be hurt, I hope it's one of them) you can bring Morin up immediately.  That's totally safe.  You don't risk losing anyone and you keep all your players

This is sensible.  I don't like it, but it's sensible.

 

Stop it.

[King Knut]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

This is sensible.  I don't like it, but it's sensible.

 

Stop it.

 

Believe me, I hate myself for even grasping it.  

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

That's what she said.

 

Never to me

[fanaticV3.0]

18 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

They're not idiots.  He's completely NHL ready.  Hagg edged him out for the roster spot pre-allotted for a rookie.

For the other spots, he'd have to beat out Mac and Manning.

 

Not only does he have to play better than them, but he has to play better enough to eliminate concerns that they'd get picked up off Waivers.  

 

They're playing it safe.  

If you start the season with Mac and Manning on the team, when someone gets hurt (not that I want anyone hurt, but if someone has to be hurt, I hope it's one of them) you can bring Morin up immediately.  That's totally safe.  You don't risk losing anyone and you keep all your players.

 

Conversely if you start the season with Morin and Sanheim and Hagg on the NHL roster, you risk losing Mac and Manning through Waivers.  Mac less likely, Manning more to very likely IMHO.

 

If that happens, and someone gets hurt or if Morin or Sanheim aren't cutting it, because they're young... then what?  You're stuck.  

 

I think that's the reasoning behind this.  I don't like it, but I get it.

 

The counter argument is that YOU CAN CARRY 8 D-Men.  And since they're not carrying 2 extra forwards, WHY NOT CARRY 8 D-men?

 

Why not drop Morin and Sanheim both into the lineup?

 

You can do it in a way that means you never have 3 rookies playing on the same night, at least not until you're more comfortable with them.  If you're going to drop Morin in with Provo (so he can play the right side) then on those nights, put in Manning if you're so concerned about rookie mistakes.  If there's any D man on this team who can roll with two different partners, it's Provo.

 

On the other side, you're already asking Gudas to play with a different guy ever other night, so who cares?

 

The argument is that of getting them minutes instead of press box time, but at this point in Morin and Sanheim's development, AHL minutes aren't going to do squat for them.  They need to get better at NHL hockey.  Period.  

 

I know I'm sort of arguing with myself here (or at least what I perceive to be H&H's positions) but I think they're making mistakes on this one and it's frustrating me.  

 

 

 

 

Playing Manning and MacDonald  over him makes me think otherwise.

 

If he's ready, you make room for him. This team is not overflowing with proven young players, so it shouldn't be this hard to fit in one guy. Again, that is if he's ready.

[fanaticV3.0]

20 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Everything that I've read has to do with the fact that the Flyers have all the left side defensemen they need. That's the one flaw about Morin - he can only play the left side. The problem is Philadelphia is that there are two GIANT pieces of dog excrement that are taking up spots on the blue line and the head coach (who's a complete moron) loves those two wastes of space. Until Manning and MacDonald are shown the door, nothing is going to change. Once they do get shown the door, the following happens:

 

Hagg moves to the right side of Provorov

Morin is then on the left side of Gostisbehere

Sanheim moves back to the left side and Gudas takes the right side

 

As mentioned though, the issue is that the idiot head coach loves Manning and MacDonald and will do everything in his power to keep them in the lineup. It also doesn't help that our GM, who is slowing being diseased by the Hakstol syndrome, is also a willing participant in this. Hextall was the same guy who proclaimed that "any young player that's ready is going to play" and "they'll find a way to work him into the lineup", which is clearly a load of crap. Don't get me started on this. I'm onboard with firing the jackass behind the bench, but I'm starting to get on board with possibly removing Hextall as the GM. There's nurturing your prospects, and then there's overkill, which we're witnessing right now and Hextall is absolutely guilty of that.

 

I love that in back to back posts one guy tells me that the coach isn't an idiot  and one guy tells me that he is.

 

I'm not normally a fan of that many of your lineup being so inexperienced, but playing those two idiots over Morin is just insane. At least give him a game or two before sending them down.

[OccamsRazor]

35 minutes ago, King Knut said:

you risk losing Mac and Manning through Waivers. 

 

From you post to God's eyes!!!

 

Lose away!!!!!!

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

I love that in back to back posts one guy tells me that the coach isn't an idiot  and one guy tells me that he is.

 

I'm not normally a fan of that many of your lineup being so inexperienced, but playing those two idiots over Morin is just insane. At least give him a game or two before sending them down.

 

Realistically (and I'm a big fan of Morin's because what he can do combined with his size is a very rare thing in this league) there's a difference between being flat out better than everyone else on the team (Provo) and being NHL ready (Morin, Sanheim).  

 

You make room for a Provo.  Morin and Sanheim are good and will likely be very good soon.  But not quite yet.

 

Hagg is sorta proving to be more in the Provo category.  He just does everything he's supposed to well. Nothing extra.  Nothing flashy.  This is what they've needed.

 

Morin and Sanheim have to be able to do that AND be able to bring the little extra pieces that they're able to that Hagg doesn't really have (but doesn't need to).  

 

There was one open spot.  Hagg got it and he's making the most of it.  The other two are battling Mac and Manning.  

 

I'll add that the Morin vs. Mac RIGHT NOW debate is debatable.  Morin will make rookie mistakes and Mac still brings certain things to the game that are helpful and he has come up big here and there (directly causing only a few goals).  

 

However, the Sanheim/ Manning debate isn't really debatable at this point IMHO.  And I honestly don't think a Manning/Morin debate would be close either.  The difference is that Sanheim with Gudas makes a TON more sense than Morin with Gudas.   I don't know why Manning is getting minutes over Sanheim.  Yes, Sanheim's rookie goofs have lead to a couple of goals (not more than MacDonald or Manning IMHO) but his upside is easily great enough to overcome that-especially considering that Mac and Manning have made similar mistakes that have lead to goals.

 

Sanheim SHOULD be in this lineup right now.  

 

Long and short is that Hak and Hextall are erring on the side of making the Defense slightly better now in a way that's not likely to get better and I want them to err on the side of making the team REALLY GOOD in 4 months even if it risks being slightly worse now.  

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

From you post to God's eyes!!!

 

Lose away!!!!!!

 

Objectively, the only reason to lose either would be for cap relief which this team does not need right now, but what the hell, it'll come in handy resigning Simmonds if they try to.

 

That said, I'd much much much prefer to keep manning as the 7th man and FRANKLY, there's no reason not to keep Manning and Mac as the 7/8 in the press box.  They'll get nothing out of AHL time and they're there if you need them to relieve the rookies.  

 

I just don't see the downside of carrying 8 D men and giving the squad of the next 3 years a look now.

 

Manning is UFA at the end of the year anyway, and I highly doubt they'll be resigning him with Myers and Friedman luring in the AHL.    

Because of this, I think it's obvious that Hextall is trying to showcase Manning and try to get something for him now before he leaves town.  That's a fair position, but I feel like at a certain point you have to put your cards on the table and let them play.  If this is what he's thinking, Hextall's basically at the blackjack table and showing 19 and hoping he'll draw a 2.