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Game 6: Panthers at Flyers, October 17, 2017, 7:00 PM EDT


brelic

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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-Meltzer/Flyers-Gameday-101717-vs-FLA/45/88161

 

PROJECTED LINEUPS (Subject to change)

 

Flyers

 

28 Claude Giroux - 14 Sean Couturier - 93 Jakub Voracek
40 Jordan Weal - 51 Valtteri Filppula - 17 Wayne Simmonds
22 Dale Weise - 19 Nolan Patrick - 11 Travis Konecny
20 Taylor Leier - 21 Scott Laughton - 12 Michael Raffl

 

9 Ivan Provorov - 47 Andrew MacDonald
53 Shayne Gostisbehere - 8 Robert Hägg
23 Brandon Manning- 3 Radko Gudas

 

37 Brian Elliott
[30 Michal Neuvirth]

 

Scratches: Jori Lehterä (healthy), Travis Sanheim (healthy).


Panthers 

11 Jonathan Huberdeau - 16 Aleksander Barkov - 71 Radim Vrbata
27 Nick Bjugstad - 21 Vincent Trocheck - 63 Evgenii Dadonov
88 Jamie McGinn - 90 Jared McCann - 74 Owen Tippett
18 Micheal Haley - 17 Derek MacKenzie - 7 Colton Sceviour

 

3 Keith Yandle - 5 Aaron Ekblad
19 Michael Matheson - 13 Mark Pysyk
12 Ian McCoshen - 26 Alex Petrovic

 

1 Roberto Luongo
[34 James Reimer]

 

Scratches: Connor Brickley (healthy), Denis Malgin (healthy), MacKenzie Weegar (healthy).

 

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25 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

I don't get the continued scratching of Sanheim.

 

4-2 Flyers.

 

Or going with Elliott. He's been just ok. 

 

But they've been winning, so it's hard to argue. 

 

It does suck to have a rookie scratched, I agree. 

 

5-2 Flyers. Patrick with his first multi-point game.

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I must say i have been impressed by the Ginger line.  Who knew.

 

Plus/minus leaders since Feb. 28

1. Sean Couturier (PHI) +27
2. Jaden Schwartz (STL) +15
2. David Savard (CBJ)
2. Brett Pesce (CAR)
5. Five players at +14

 

 

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I must say i have been impressed by the Ginger line.  Who knew.

 

Plus/minus leaders since Feb. 28

1. Sean Couturier (PHI) +27
2. Jaden Schwartz (STL) +15
2. David Savard (CBJ)
2. Brett Pesce (CAR)
5. Five players at +14

 

 

 

 

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Just now, AJgoal said:

 

 

 

 

Well it has looked like a great move so far.

 

Some credit to Hak for that.

 

My only concern with that combo was who would score the goals since those guys are pass first guys.

 

But it hasn't been an issue so far.

 

Keep it going!

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Manning recorded an assist and was a +2 with two shots on goal during 18:14 of ice time in his return to the lineup.

 

So i guess hard to sit him after that.

 

However i don't want Travis sitting for long.

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40 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I must say i have been impressed by the Ginger line.  Who knew.

 

Plus/minus leaders since Feb. 28

1. Sean Couturier (PHI) +27
2. Jaden Schwartz (STL) +15
2. David Savard (CBJ)
2. Brett Pesce (CAR)
5. Five players at +14

 

 

 

On top of that, Coots has 0 PP points, and Giroux has only 1 PP point (Voracek has 5). 

 

Overall, their 5v5 play has improved. And the likeliest conclusion is that Couturier is making them more defensively responsible 5v5, which means their offensive production isn't offset with shoddy defensive play.

 

Good news all around for the Flyers. 

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1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

On top of that, Coots has 0 PP points, and Giroux has only 1 PP point (Voracek has 5). 

 

Overall, their 5v5 play has improved. And the likeliest conclusion is that Couturier is making them more defensively responsible 5v5, which means their offensive production isn't offset with shoddy defensive play.

 

Good news all around for the Flyers. 

 

 

I have to say i have loved the 4th lines play.

 

In today's hockey you need a 4th that can contribute like they are doing now. 

 

I always had faith in Laughton and it looks like Ron has too and it is paying dividends.

 

Taylor Leier is in the last year of his deal and should get a nice 2-3 year raise.

 

Manning in the last year of his deal could provide a nice trade deadline return too.

 

Filppula could make Ron think long and hard about keeping him or flipping him to when it comes time. 3 goals in 5 games pretty impressive start by him.

 

I guess were they are in their playoff race will factor heavily in all this.

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Filppula could make Ron think long and hard about keeping him or flipping him to when it comes time. 3 goals in 5 games pretty impressive start by him.

 

I guess were they are in their playoff race will factor heavily in all this.

 

I do agree; however, unless the Flyers are in a great spot (Read: Surprising near-contender status), I say trading him is the best option -- especially if he actually produces well all year, as that would raise his stock even higher.

 

He's been very solid, but he's not getting any younger, and Patrick is likely to push for the 2C as early as next season. Trade him. Get something decent for him. Add to the remarkable young talent we've been stockpiling. That's my $0.02.

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Or going with Elliott. He's been just ok. 

 

But they've been winning, so it's hard to argue. 

 

It does suck to have a rookie scratched, I agree. 

 

5-2 Flyers. Patrick with his first multi-point game.

 

It's going to be Neuwirth.  

That said, the Sanheim thing is bugging the HELL out of me.  

 

I can't argue too much with it as they beat the caps 8-2 with manning in, but still... It DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.  

They are two utterly different players.  Pairing Manning with Gudas weakens them and at best relegates them to "playing it safe" and at worst, endangers Gudas to the role of cleaning up for when Manning gets caught trying to pinch.  

 

Manning and Mac have similar games.  Manning's better, and both have the potential to chip in with an offensive play here or there, but frankly we all know that they team is probably better off if they don't bother and leave that to a more talented pairing partner.

 

Putting Manning with Gudas... it's just not ideal and frankly, it's just wasting time.  

 

Sanheim gets better faster and is the guy that you'd never question whether he should be in the lineup or not much more rapidly if he gets the time to make his mistakes now.

 

Much as we don't like to admit it, Provorov made a TON of rookie mistakes last year.  It's just that his veteran partner made many many more rookie mistakes so we didn't care.

 

Hagg is making very few Rookie mistakes and I love him for that, but I really hope that isn't compelling the standard for rookie d men to now be zero mistakes because frankly, there are aspects to Morin's game (size and hitting)  and especially to Sanheim's game  (speed and scoring) that Hagg will never have to worry about.   They're going to have more wrinkles to iron out.

 

Right now They're just staying wrinkled because for some reason Hakstol wants it that way.

 

I can only hope Hextall is working on trades.  

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13 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I do agree; however, unless the Flyers are in a great spot (Read: Surprising near-contender status), I say trading him is the best option -- especially if he actually produces well all year, as that would raise his stock even higher.

 

He's been very solid, but he's not getting any younger, and Patrick is likely to push for the 2C as early as next season. Trade him. Get something decent for him. Add to the remarkable young talent we've been stockpiling. That's my $0.02.

 

Filppula still has a NTC.  He can waive, and he may be interested in waiving if it's to a contender, but if the Flyers are looking decent at the deadline, I don't see the need to capitalize on his value then.  They have a LOT in the system already.  If they traded Filppula for a firs, that pick would literally be someone to replace the likes of Ghost or Giroux at this point.  That's how much they have cooking already.  

 

IMHO, if they're looking good or close, it's more valuable to get this team into the playoffs again and maybe past the first round.  That experience will be more valuable to the core of young players now on the team and getting them acclimated to what they'll need to succeed there than adding more potential to the system will be.  

 

Of course, the deadline is a long way away and if the wheels fall off the wagon like last year, you take what you can get for him.  

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The Manning-Gudas pairing is not good at getting out of their zone without forward help. Sanheim alleviates some of that pressure.

 

But moreso, the issue is Sanheim not playing. It doesn't aid his development to watch game after game from the press box. It especially doesn't make sense given that he was looking progressively better each game that they played prior to the home opener.

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2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

 

 

 

be careful.... some folks around here take issue with posting positives about Couts!!   That line has been stellar.

 

I can see why the lineup is the same but I would really like to see Sanheim play.  If he is going to continue to flip spots as the 6/7 dman I would rather have him in the AHL getting big minutes.   Only time will tell if they plan on keeping him in the lineup on a regular basis.   Elliot has been "meh" but after the 8-2 game I don't have a big problem giving him the nod.   

 

 

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Manning playing ahead of Sanheim OR Morin is a joke.  You could argue whether Sanheim or Morin had the better camp.  But I don't think you could argue that Manning had a better camp than either of them.  Plus, in what world does it make sense to keep Sanheim in the NHL if you are just going to sit him in the press box?

 

Just not understanding this decision.  I get that coaches like to stay with the same lineup after a win, but Sanheim shouldn't have been sitting in the first place.

 

In any event, the team is looks so much better this year than last.  Excellent start.  Hope it continues and they don't get satisfied with themselves.  

 

 

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48 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I do agree; however, unless the Flyers are in a great spot (Read: Surprising near-contender status), I say trading him is the best option -- especially if he actually produces well all year, as that would raise his stock even higher.

 

He's been very solid, but he's not getting any younger, and Patrick is likely to push for the 2C as early as next season. Trade him. Get something decent for him. Add to the remarkable young talent we've been stockpiling. That's my $0.02.

 

I get what you're saying, but we also can't forget that if you take him out, we basically have some really green players down the middle. Patrick, Laughton, and who else? Rubtsov? Vorobyev? 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, vis said:

Manning playing ahead of Sanheim OR Morin is a joke.  You could argue whether Sanheim or Morin had the better camp.  But I don't think you could argue that Manning had a better camp than either of them.  Plus, in what world does it make sense to keep Sanheim in the NHL if you are just going to sit him in the press box?

 

Just not understanding this decision.  I get that coaches like to stay with the same lineup after a win, but Sanheim shouldn't have been sitting in the first place.

 

In any event, the team is looks so much better this year than last.  Excellent start.  Hope it continues and they don't get satisfied with themselves.  

 

 

 

So, let's say Sanheim ends up playing 35-45 games. You know, that's entirely consistent with a bunch of other d-men when they have their first 'season' in the NHL. It's rare the rookies that make the roster, and that's it - 82 games baby. Provorov was an exception, and rightly so. He is light years ahead of Sanheim in his maturity level and how he sees the game. He is strategic. Sanheim is still learning the ropes. 

 

Yeah, it's frustrating because we all want the rookies to play. But it's not crazy to have a rookie defenseman play 40 games or so... maybe the flip side is that he should also be in the AHL the rest of the time. I don't know, hard to say.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

be careful.... some folks around here take issue with posting positives about Couts!!   That line has been stellar.

 

 

 

It's a small sample size, but Couturier's goal scoring rate has more than doubled this year over last year. It increased slightly when his icetime was increased last year after the trade deadline from 0.64 to 0.79, this season it's at 1.91. That's a 50 goal pace, so it's obviously going to dip, but even if it falls all the way back to 0.79, you're looking at 20 goals. He'll probably end up on the lower half of the middle if things stay the same.

 

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

So, let's say Sanheim ends up playing 35-45 games. You know, that's entirely consistent with a bunch of other d-men when they have their first 'season' in the NHL. It's rare the rookies that make the roster, and that's it - 82 games baby. Provorov was an exception, and rightly so. He is light years ahead of Sanheim in his maturity level and how he sees the game. He is strategic. Sanheim is still learning the ropes. 

 

Yeah, it's frustrating because we all want the rookies to play. But it's not crazy to have a rookie defenseman play 40 games or so... maybe the flip side is that he should also be in the AHL the rest of the time. I don't know, hard to say.

 

 

 

That's just it. Most rookie Dmen come up partway through and play out the year. Or start out and then go down to the AHL. They don't play 35-40 games and sit the rest of the season in the pressbox.

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22 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

be careful.... some folks around here take issue with posting positives about Couts!!   That line has been stellar.

 

The only thing that's really held him back has been injury.

 

If he misses another 15-20 games this season (as he has the past two) then his effectiveness will likely be affected both in time missed and in on ice recovery.

 

2 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

It's a small sample size, but Couturier's goal scoring rate has more than doubled this year over last year. It increased slightly when his icetime was increased last year after the trade deadline from 0.64 to 0.79, this season it's at 1.91. That's a 50 goal pace, so it's obviously going to dip, but even if it falls all the way back to 0.79, you're looking at 20 goals. He'll probably end up on the lower half of the middle if things stay the same.

 

He certainly has it in him to be a 20/50 guy in this league - if put in the position to do so. He was "on pace" for 50 two seasons ago.

 

At least in the early going, it seems that the problem with him at second line center might have been somewhat related the guys on the wings?

 

But for me, the most important thing for Couturier is staying healthy.

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5 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

It's a small sample size, but Couturier's goal scoring rate has more than doubled this year over last year. It increased slightly when his icetime was increased last year after the trade deadline from 0.64 to 0.79, this season it's at 1.91. That's a 50 goal pace, so it's obviously going to dip, but even if it falls all the way back to 0.79, you're looking at 20 goals. He'll probably end up on the lower half of the middle if things stay the same.

 

 

That's just it. Most rookie Dmen come up partway through and play out the year. Or start out and then go down to the AHL. They don't play 35-40 games and sit the rest of the season in the pressbox.

 

Yeah, maybe. Ryan Ellis is similar to Sanheim in that he was drafted 11th overall, so high expectations. 

 

In his first two NHL 'seasons', he played 30ish games, and also 30ish games in the AHL. 

 

So maybe they get Sanheim in a game over the homestand and then send him back to the AHL.  Because, yeah, he should be playing somewhere.

 

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2 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah, maybe. Ryan Ellis is similar to Sanheim in that he was drafted 11th overall, so high expectations. 

 

In his first two NHL 'seasons', he played 30ish games, and also 30ish games in the AHL. 

 

So maybe they get Sanheim in a game over the homestand and then send him back to the AHL.  Because, yeah, he should be playing somewhere.

 

 

His second season was also 2012-2013, so at least in part, he was in the AHL during the lockout.

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