(Poll) Who is the best goalie in the NHL today?

[yave1964]

Gonna throw a poll out here, I have watched the erosion of Lundqvist continue and it has made me think, if the King is dead, who is now the best goalie in Hockey? I know there are some Lundqvist haters who say he has never won a cup (true) and defenders who say just look at the mish mash of a supporting cast (equally true) but the fact is the old gray mare aint what he used to be, so if not he, who is the best goalie in the game today?

  IMHO you can eliminate starters such as Howard, Darling, Greiss, Luongo, Lehner, Elliott, Lundqvist, Fleury, Markstrom, Mike smith, Raanta, Varlamov and Hellebuyck without so much as a second thought. None of them deserve a moments consideration.

 

  Then you have the tougher cases who are solid but not deserving, either too young, too old, or for whatever reason they just miss being part of the conversation. IMHO that list includes: Ben Bishop, Cam Talbot, Jake Allen, Martin jones, Jonathan Quick, corey Crawford, Tuuka rask, Pekka Rinne, John Gibson, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Frederik Andersen, Corey Schneider and Craig Anderson. Let me be clear, these men are all damn good goalies capable of winning a cup and or making an All Star team and carrying their team on their back for long stretches but they fall just short.

 

 Here then are the players who I feel deserve to be mentioned in the conversation for the leagues best goalie:

 

Braden Holtby. Consistent winner who regularly is among the league leaders in wins. Won Vezina two years ago.

 

Devan Dubnyk  Outstanding intelligent goalie who has blossomed into one of the leagues best. 

 

Carey Price. Won Vezina in 2014-15 has look/feel of an outstanding goalie. When he is on the Habs win. When he is out they are a lottery team.

 

Sergei Bobrovsky. Has now won two Vezina trophies in five years, has made the Jackets relevant.

 

Matt Murray. How can you leave anyone off the list who has won back to back cups to start his career.

 

So those are my five who I have listed in the poll, feel free to add a write in, I nearly put Schneider on the list, what he has done on lousy teams merits consideration.

[yave1964]

I mentioned to the wife that I was going to post this poll and she told me it was too subjective, how do you define the best? How do you define the question? The best for one game? The best for the next ten years? Feel free to post how you define the question, to me it is if I could have any goalie in the game today for this season on my team who would it be.

[Podein25]

Right now, it's looking like Jonathan Quick

[pilldoc]

Before I even read your 2 post thoroughly I was clicking Murray.  In a world of "what  have you done for me lately," with out a doubt it has to be Murray.  However there is a caveat.  Without MAF performance last season during the playoffs, Murray and the Pens do not win the cup.  The Pens have finally learned to win by not relying on Crosby to caring the load.

 

Holtby and Bob are very close second. 

 

[pilldoc]

59 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

Sergei Bobrovsky. Has now won two Vezina trophies in five years, has made the Jackets relevant

 

As a Flyer fan this both makes me happy for him AND breaks my  heart (damn you Homer!) ........  With a better support cast the Blue Jackets could be a dangerous team.

[yave1964]

I personally voted Bob over Murray  by an eyelash because IMHO I feel Bob would win easy in Pittsburgh but the Jackets would not be as good with Murray. 

[pilldoc]

10 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

I personally voted Bob over Murray  by an eyelash because IMHO I feel Bob would win easy in Pittsburgh but the Jackets would not be as good with Murray. 

 

Valid point ... so when the Pens demolished the Blue Jackets last year in the playoffs was it more Bob's fault or simply the breakdown of his team in from of him?

[yave1964]

19 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

Valid point ... so when the Pens demolished the Blue Jackets last year in the playoffs was it more Bob's fault or simply the breakdown of his team in from of him?

I think it is because of the  overall team talent and experience. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Some real tough choices up there and I too struggled with how to 'define' best goalie.

So what I decided to do was take a cross section of the various criteria and see which name keeps coming up the most when studied under those criteria.

 

Hmm...which guy would I trust if I needed one win THAT night?  Brayden Holtby

Which guy would I like to build my team around for the next several years?  Braden Holtby

 

Other criteria:

Which guys seems the least fazed even when his team is doing scant little in front of him? Braden Holtby

Which guy seems to be able to stay HEALTHY whilst putting up his fantastic numbers?  Braden Holtby

And finally, which guy seems to be able to BACK UP the claim to "best" with the raw numbers? Braden Holtby

 

Make no mistake, several goalies fit some of those criteria to a T as well as Holtby....but I really can't come up with another goalie that seems to be able to rank high, if not the best, in ALL the ones I mentioned.

 

Carey Price certainly is calm, cool and collected, has the raw numbers and can be trusted to win a game and a team can be built around him........... but if his team is a complete joke in front of him, he may not LOOK like the best AND he has chronic injury issues.

 

Sergei Bobrovsky, again, has the raw numbers, but there are times I swear the losing gets in his head a bit and he plays "not to lose" rather than to win........and another guy whom injuries seem to haunt. I'd trust him for perhaps a game....but to build a team around such an injury prone, though supremely talented netminder? It gives pause.

 

Matt Murray came pretty close to running the table on all the categories, but the reason I ultimately chose Holtby over him, despite the fantastic feat of two Cups in two years, is sample size. 

Really, how many goalies have we seen come out like the proverbial 'House of Fire' only to fizzle out not more than 4 or 5 seasons (if that) into their careers? Jim Carrey, Ilya Bryzagalov, Eddie Lack, Brian Elliot..... you get the idea...

Am I saying Murray is any of those? No. But I'd like to see more proven years out of him before I'd place him ahead of a guy like Holtby who HAS proved himself year in, year out and continues to do so.

 

Devan Dubnyk. I love the guy, but I truly think he is a fantastic goalie in the right "system" and is just an average one in any other scenario.

He is one of those guys who, if the conditions were right, you CAN trust to win a single must win, who CAN put up the numbers, who is NOT fazed by pressure......but you have to wonder if he is a good long term building cornerstone if the team changes philosophy and personnel (which I believe is sorta happening in Minnesota with Boudreau).  

 

Another guy similar to Dubnyk is Mike Smith...although he carries the extra burden of not being to stay healthy for significant stretches during any given season....and at 35 is heading into 'past his prime' territory as well.

 

Jake Allen? Good goalie...but wonder how he'd do without large Blues players constantly clogging up shooting lanes for him. Possible system goalie as well.....and a guy who I think is sometimes subject to being fazed by extended losing streaks.

 

Jonathan Quick, yet another guy whom I suspect is a system guy...although he has proven pretty tough one on one with shooters and when things break down. But for some reason, he is subject to streaks where he looks like one of the WORST goalies in the league...and I can't quite explain why. This year he has looked really good so far........but then again, the entire Kings team has looked like their tough, old defensive selves once again. 

Coincidence that Quick has rebounded since last year under those conditions?  Hmm......

 

Honorable mention should go to Corey Schneider who has, since his time in NJ, done quite well, with not a whole lot to work with in front of him defensively and offensively. This year, the offense seems to have been fixed, although the defense remains suspect.

But Schneider has put up good numbers, has proven himself a workhorse, doesn't seem fazed by pressure or his team's subpar performance.............. yet at times, perhaps because he is OVERPLAYED, has looked worn out, and his numbers suffer because of it.

Also, every once in a while, he lets in a big ol softy goal...and it usually is the difference in a game on a team where every goal for and against seems to matter.

 

Ben Bishop, Juraslav Halak, Roberto Luongo, Semyon Varlamov....good goalies who are either above average but not elite, injury prone, or simply just past their primes.

 

So there we go.

Braden Holtby.

 

Sad thing is, Holtby's remaining prime years may be wasted in Washington.....

 

[intheslot]

Quick ...

none other. Write in vote .. !!!

[yave1964]

2 hours ago, intheslot said:

Quick ...

none other. Write in vote .. !!!

  I wrestled with the case for Quick and whether to put him on the list or not. 

 

THE CASE FOR:

2 Stanley Cup wins the first time around he was plain filthy, a .946 save percentage, 16 wins and only 4 losses and a goals against of a sick 1.46. He was as deserving as anyone in memory of winning the Conn Smythe as the leagues best goalie.

  The second cup win his goals against went up by over a goal a game from 1.46 to 2.58 but he came up huge when he needed to especially in the conference finals against the Sharks. 

  Until last year he has been especially durable, playing over 60 games five separate times. He has only led the league in one category once, in shutouts (10) in 2010.

 

THE CASE AGAINST:

He has been good but not great in the regular season, after the first cup win his save pct is always between a bad .902 and an average .918. He has never been a first team all star and only a second team all star once. It has been said that his numbers are good in the regular season but not elite, and that he turns it on in the postseason but he has had some real duds in the postseason as well,  he has had years where his postseason goals against have been 3.50, 3.16 and 3.08. 

 

  To me however, the number one thing that kept him off the list is the lost season that was the 2016-17 season in which he was injured opening night and missed all but 17 games and was at best ordinary when he was in. He turns 32 at the All Star break this season and after missing most of last year there are whispers. He needs more than five games to start this year before you can put him on the list IMHO.

  And another reason I didn't put him on the list is Peter Budaj who came back from the dead to win 27 games, have a .917 save pct and a goals against of 2.12 which mirrors the numbers almost exactly of what Quick has put up for years. In fact over the past five seasons Quick has only had a better goals against than Budaj in one of them.

 

  Look, I am not saying give me Budaj over Quick, nothing of the sort but Quick has been a good regular season goalie who caught fire twice in the postseason, once he seemed to carry the team on his back, the second time other than a few games he was a passenger but he does have two rings which does count for a lot, a lot of guys on the list have less than that, but Crawford isn't here, Fleury isn't here. 

  IMHO Quick is a good to very good goalie but not elite.

[FD19372]

Ryan Mil....Sergei Bobrovsky...the one Ok-ONES that got away.

[FD19372]

3 hours ago, intheslot said:

Quick ...

none other. Write in vote .. !!!

Quick was up until his injury. I want to see what he does this entire season before I put him ahead of Bobrovsky, but Quick is runner-up right now IMO.

[hf101]

On 10/19/2017 at 11:17 AM, yave1964 said:

I mentioned to the wife that I was going to post this poll and she told me it was too subjective, how do you define the best? How do you define the question? The best for one game? The best for the next ten years? Feel free to post how you define the question, to me it is if I could have any goalie in the game today for this season on my team who would it be.

 

I completely agree with your wife.  The question is much too subjective.   

 

Thus I voted for "Other" 

The best goalie in the league right now imo is Quick.  But I'd also give an equivalent amount of votes for Vasilevskiy if we are measuring games won right now.

 

Dubnyk shouldn't even be on the list. 

 

And for some that instantly give Murray the honors here he hasn't even played one full year as the main starter.  69 Career games is all.   Quick has also won 2 cups and a Conn Smyth and Crawford has won 3 cups.

 

With a  career 2.26 GAA and a 9.16 SV% my vote is for Quick.

[Trefilov22]

It's a tough choice for me between Holtby and Murray.  Both are excellent goalies, and both have squared off on numerous occassions.  Holtby seems to succeed in the regular season, but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts, Murray has obviously been the better of the two..   Unfortunately for winning the big games, I have to go with Murray...

[ruxpin]

I cannot believe Ryan Miller is not only missing from the list but isn't winning in a walk. Y'all be nuts. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I cannot believe Ryan Miller is not only missing from the list but isn't winning in a walk. Y'all be nuts. 

To be fair, Ryan Miller WAS considered, but then, it was believed that his awesomeness was so powerful, that it might break the poll into tiny little pieces.....so for the safety of everyone, he asked that he be left off of it.

[MadDevil]

I still put Price and Holtby at the top, with any number of names filling out the top 5-10 after that. Murray has 2 Cups, but Fleury was just as much a part of the last one, plus Murray has only been a full time starter for 2 years. I tend to give the guys who have consistently been at the top for 3+ years the edge over guys with less experience.

 

I also don't put as much stock into wins by a goalie as much as I used to, so I think the Cups argument for a guy like Quick isn't as strong. Obviously winning is important, but winning in the playoffs is so dependant on matchups, timing, and luck that I don't know how much you can really put on the goalie. Any goalie can have 2 bad games in a playoff series and that's it. Whereas over the course of 60-70 starts a year, 2 bad games ends up being just a blip on an otherwise great/elite body of work. Likewise a goalie can get hot in the playoffs for 15 games, win a Cup, and be proclaimed elite. Quick, for example, has really only had one elite season + another good playoff run, yet people consider him a top goalie every year. Granted, he has been great so far this year, but it's not even 10 games yet.

[OccamsRazor]

I didn't read through the thread so i have to say i take Quick can't believe he isn't on the list.

 

Sorry Bob and Holtby haven't won squat.

[OccamsRazor]

On 10/19/2017 at 12:13 PM, Podein25 said:

Right now, it's looking like Jonathan Quick

 

Yes i agree. 

 

Dubnyk and Price to haven't done squat.

 

I'd love the Flyers to have Quick.

 

He isn't eligible to become a Flyer till he is 35!

[yave1964]

Clearly Dubnyk does not beling on this list, my apologies for that. As for Quick he clearly at the least belongs on the list and many feel he belongs at the top. 

 

  As I mentioned, 'best goalie' at least according to my wife is subjective and what that question means to people depends upon which prism you are looking in.

 

If you are looking at it as who you want to tend your net for the next five to ten years it is probably Murray, maybe even Vasilevskiy or one of several other young stud goalies.

 

 If you are looking for a goalie in his prime to carry your team for a season or two then Holtby and Price are probably the guys along with Bob.

 

 If your decision is based upon postseason experience then Quick and Crawford enter and may even dominate the conversation.

 

  If you are wanting to give special bonus points to a brilliant goalie who has spent most of his career trapped in bad situations Corey Schneider almost certainly deserves honorable mention. 

 

  So clearly the debate has many facets to consider. I went with Bob over the field as he is entering his prime, has two Vezina's and is clearly elevating his team. I think Quick is slightly past his prime and after missing most of the past season I need more than three weeks before considering him but clearly he deserves a place at the table and if I had to do this over again I would have certainly included him and left Dubnyk off.

 

 

[ruxpin]

I actually like the question as phrased (poorly).   I think it's an interesting study of how people interpret "best" when left to their own measurement.  It is vague and somewhat subjective, which is what I think is the point.

 

Having said that.   I went back and ranked goalie stats from 2010-11 season to end of 2016-17.  I'm not sure I had a conscious reason for not including so far this year, but I don't feel like going back and re-doing it.   Plus, this year is such a small sample size, it really doesn't alter much.  

 

Probably notable is whom I left off.    Obviously, the list is not exhaustive and leaves off people like Jake Allen, Ryan Miller, Vasilevskiy, Varlamov, and other goalies who have no business in this discussion.   The list does include a few who also have no business being in the discussion but whom I  left on just for comparative purposes.

 

REGULAR SEASON	Wins			SA%			GAA
	Total	Rank		PCT	Rank		GAA	Rank
Henrik Lundqvist	228	1	Matt Murray	0.925	1	Jonathan Quick	2.18	1
Marc-Andre Fleury	227	2	Carey Price	0.923	3	John Gibson	2.22	2
Corey Crawford	213	3	Cory Schneider	0.923	6	Cory Schneider	2.26	5
Carey Price	210	4	Cam Talbot	0.922	8	TuukkaRask	2.27	6
Pekka Rinne	207	5	TuukkaRask	0.922	9	Carey Price	2.29	8
Jonathan Quick	199	7	John Gibson	0.922	10	Henrik Lundqvist	2.31	9
Braden Holtby	191	9	Braden Holtby	0.922	11	Braden Holtby	2.31	10
Sergei Bobrovsky	181	11	Henrik Lundqvist	0.921	13	Ben Bishop	2.31	11
TuukkaRask	179	12	Sergei Bobrovsky	0.92	15	Cam Talbot	2.32	13
Devan Dubnyk	165	14	Ben Bishop	0.919	17	Matt Murray	2.32	14
Ben Bishop	147	21	Pekka Rinne	0.918	18	Pekka Rinne	2.36	18
Cory Schneider	142	23	Jonathan Quick	0.918	19	Corey Crawford	2.37	21
Cam Talbot	96	31	Corey Crawford	0.918	20	Marc-Andre Fleury	2.4	25
John Gibson	62	43	Devan Dubnyk	0.918	23	Sergei Bobrovsky	2.45	29
Matt Murray	41	62	Marc-Andre Fleury	0.916	27	Devan Dubnyk	2.48	35

 

I'm really hoping this keeps formatting. 

 

WINS:   I think worthy of note is that both Price and Quick missed full seasons.   If each win 30 games in the seasons they missed, they're 1 and 2 in the "Wins" rankings, respectively.   Regular season wins is often an ugly way to rank goalies because often it's at least also a reflection of the strength of the team in front of them.  Neither the Canadiens nor the Kings had particularly strong regular season teams during this period.   The Canadiens have been significantly flawed and even the Kings' Cup teams had low finishes in their conferences.    Moreover, Murray is the lowest on that list and, well, that's just reflective of the fact he's young.   

 

SAVE PCT:  Pretty much what I expected to see.   Murray's is high likely because of smaller sample size.   Price leads the pack among goalies around for all or most of the timeframe, and Quick's is fairly pedestrian.    The league average in the time period was .914.

 

GAA:  Quick shines here.   The quick (no pun intended) retort is that GAA can often be a measure of the team defense in front of a goalie, of which Los Angeles' was pretty good.  But the goalie has to be part of that, right?   You can have a pretty good defense, but if Steve Mason is behind it....

 

PLAYOFFS

 

 

PLAYOFFS	Wins			SA%			GAA
	Total	Rank		PCT	Rank		GAA	Rank
Corey Crawford	48	1	Tuukka Rask	0.934	3	Matt Murray	1.95	4
Henrik Lundqvist	47	2	Braden Holtby	0.932	6	TuukkaRask	1.97	5
Jonathan Quick	44	3	Matt Murray	0.928	8	Braden Holtby	2.00	6
Pekka Rinne	34	4	Ben Bishop	0.926	10	Ben Bishop	2.09	10
Braden Holtby	29	5	Henrik Lundqvist	0.916	11	Henrik Lundqvist	2.17	13
Marc-Andre Fleury	24	6	Jonathan Quick	0.924	14	Jonathan Quick	2.17	14
Tuukka Rask	23	7	Cory Schneider	0.922	16	Corey Crawford	2.28	15
Matt Murray	22	8	Cam Talbot	0.922	18	Carey Price	2.29	16
Ben Bishop	21	10	Carey Price	0.922	19	Pekka Rinne	2.32	18
Carey Price	20	11	Corey Crawford	0.919	21	Cam Talbot	2.48	23
John Gibson	11	20	Pekka Rinne	0.918	23	Devan Dubnyk	2.59	27
Devan Dubnyk	7	27	John Gibson	0.917	26	Cory Schneider	2.59	28
Cam Talbot	7	28	Marc-Andre Fleury	0.905	31	John Gibson	2.66	29
Sergei Bobrovsky	3	39	Devan Dubnyk	0.903	32	Marc-Andre Fleury	2.8	31
Cory Schneider	1	54	Sergei Bobrovsky	0.887	35	Sergei Bobrovsky	3.63	36

 

 

WINS:  I don't know that this matters by itself.  Instead, it shows how often a team has been there and how deep they habitually go.  It's interesting, though, that Lundqvist is 2nd on the list and hasn't won a damn thing.   I think by itself, it just shows strength of team, but the goalie is certainly a part of that.   Worth mentioning:   Dubnyk has 7 wins but 14 losses.   Can we just put this out there now:  Dubnyk has no business anywhere near a discussion of best anything.

 

SAVE PCT:   I was amazed to see Rask here.   The fact that Holtby is 2nd on SA% and 6th on  GAA just shows horrible the team in front of him plays offensively in the playoffs.   

 

GAA:  If anyone is curious who the top goalies were since Murray starts at #4:  Mrazek, Smith, Neuvirth.   No, I'm not kidding.  Also of note is how badly Bobrovsky's numbers tank in the playoffs behind the same exact team.

 

 

Okay, so

Vezina Winners since 2010-11:

Bobrovsky 2

Holtby 1

Price 1

Rask  1

Lundqvist  1

 

Cup Winners since 2010-11:

Murray  2

Crawford  2

Quick 2

Rask  1

 

I think all this exercise points out is that we're not exactly in the era of dominant goaltenders.  There's no Brodeur, Roy, Hasek, etc.

 

The only goalie that has won a Vezina AND a Cup during that timeframe is Tuukka Rask.  I don't think anyone is going to sanely argue that he's the best goalie.   Especially when one mixes in the "how are they playing now" into the equation.

 

I agree with those that think Quick should be on the list, based on track record and how he's playing now.  

 

But those voting for Quick while ruling out Price or Bob because "What have they won?"   Murray has won two Cups since Quick.   So add "lately" to "What have they won?" and the answer to who's best is Murray.   And he's 7-0-1 this year so far.   How much of that is the team?  I don't know.  But they've been slaughtered in games Murray didn't play (largely because they played withOUT a goalie in those games, but that doesn't help my argument).

 

I don't know if I'd answer the question "if you were starting a team, what goalie would you want?" with Murray.   But I think everyone above might be in trouble if he was put on a team that was brand new and not constructed well.  Or on a team that's not constructed well (Montreal, Arizona).    

 

So, the conclusion to my book:

 

If I were to list my top 5 goalies currently:

Murray

Price

Quick

Holtby

Bobrovsky (who has SUCKED in the playoffs!  Bryzgalov bad)

 

If you ask me later, it'll be the same 5 but possibly in a different order.

 

[yave1964]

@ruxpin

 

Holy cow was that detailed and helped frame the question (poorly put out by me) into a better light.

 

I would personally have Quick no higher than 5th but okay, I get the list and feel I may be selling Crawford a bit short, as I always do. I have always seen him as the modern incarnation of Osgood, more a product of his situation than an actual elite goalie but he certainly deserves to be in the conversation based off his rankings as well. Essentially every single argument you can make for Quick can be made for Crawford in equal measure. 

 

 Thanks Rux!

[ruxpin]

14 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

I would personally have Quick no higher than 5th but okay, I get the list and feel I may be selling Crawford a bit short, as I always do. I have always seen him as the modern incarnation of Osgood, more a product of his situation than an actual elite goalie but he certainly deserves to be in the conversation based off his rankings as well. Essentially every single argument you can make for Quick can be made for Crawford in equal measure. 

 

 

I think I do, as well, and for the same reason (the Osgood reasoning).

 

Quick's numbers are simply better than Crawford's, though [EDIT:  lol, I just went back and looked at the numbers I, myself, posted.  Are they actually appreciably better?  Are they better at all?  Fairly similar.].  I mean, both are good on paper so there's not a long walk, but they're better.

 

I could easily flip-flop Holtby and Quick.   But I don't think I put Bob ahead of either of them.   That could change over time, but I've never been really sold on Bob.   From a Flyers' fan perspective, I definitely wish we hadn't traded him, but he'd honestly have been wasted in Philly over the last several years and I wonder what his stats look like had he stayed here.

 

But yeah, I have Quick third and I think that's as high as I go.  Ask me again at the end of the year if Quick and Price keep going as they are this season.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Murray has won two Cups since Quick

 

 

Yeah maybe that would have been different if he hadn't missed most of the year injured....so we'll never know.

 

I agree for age reasons i may give Murray the nod. Age wise he has proven much more than Holtby and Bob.

 

But my choice regardless is Quick. Just my preference.