2018 NHL draft

[jammer2]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I have advocated signing Hutton to take Elliott's job.

 

Sure his age is a concern but on a two year deal i would love to have him on the Flyers.

 

He and Elliott would be a solid tandem i think. 

 

Hutton could play 50-55 games and let Elliott take the rest.

 

It would be my offseason plan.

 

 It's not so much the age, it's the fact he has never been a starter. He has played 40 games once. The other thing is money. If you look at the UFA pool for goalies, it's super weak. The basic law of supply and demand says the guy with a 2.09 GGA is gonna be way ahead of Bernier, Lack, Johnson and the rest of the stiffs. My gut says Hutton will command at least 5 mill a year, which is way to rich for our blood. 

 

 It will never happen, but it would be nice if Hexy just winged it with the second goalie. Let all the kids have a legit shot in camp and let the winner back up Elliott. Even if it's Hart, if he plays his ass off in camp, then promote him, and skip the NHL. 

 

 Just in terms of pure talent....

 

1)Carter Hart

2)Alex Lyon

3)Anthony Stolarz

4)Felix Sandstrom

5)Masden

 

 Let these 5 battle it and the best goalie is back up, playing about 35+ games. Think I'm missing somebody. 

 

[jammer2]

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I mean, good on Hutton and get it while you can, but some fan base somewhere will hate his guts before he's done. Think Darling. 

 

 

.

 EXACTLY...there is a reason why these guys are in their early 30's and never started. Darling is the perfect example of the point I was trying to make. Sometimes it works out, ie Cam Talbot a career back up who became a respectable starter....might be able to put the zona goalie in that group also. 

[flyercanuck]

6 hours ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Age does not scare me as much with goalies.  Many many goalies have played until late ages like Broduer, Gump Worsley just to use examples from recent and past times.

 

Ya, I can see the comparison between a guy who's played less than 150 career NHL games as a backup, a first ballot Hall of Famer who's arguably the greatest goalie of alltime and a guy who played drunk and without a mask for over 700 games more than Hutton while winning the Calder/multiple Vezina/ Stanley Cups. . 

 

Goalies do tend to start their careers later than other positions. But Hutton is about as comparable to those two as Andrew MacDonald is to Bobby Orr.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, jammer2 said:

My gut says Hutton will command at least 5 mill a year, which is way to rich for our blood.

 

Not really look around the league show me a team who is in need of a starter???

 

All i can see are 2 Flyers and Buffalo.

 

Hell Blues even have Allen under contract for 4.3 mill per the next 3 years.

 

So it is also about supply and demand and the demand isn't really there for a starter's role except maybe in Philly and Buffalo.

 

Everywhere else it is about backup time.

 

So to me if he wants to start he would have a good chance of those 3 teams. 

 

And he might want to stay in St. Louie....but i don't care where he goes he ain't getting 4+ mill a year i promise.

 

I could see him signing for close to what Elliott signing and term wise to come to Philly.

 

But if it took 3 mill per year on a 2 year deal to get him to Philly i would give it to him because he is the guy i would prefer to unseat Elliott till Hart is ready.

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But Hutton is about as comparable to those two as Andrew MacDonald is to Bobby Orr.

Exactly.  Only a nut would claim Orr is as good as MacDonald.

[flyercanuck]

41 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Exactly.  Only a nut would claim Orr is as good as MacDonald.

 

 

That's right Paul Holmgren.

[jammer2]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Not really look around the league show me a team who is in need of a starter???

 

 

 Well, just off the top of my head, the situations in Ottawa and Arizona are not exactly ideal. 

[Buffalo Rick]

7 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ya, I can see the comparison between a guy who's played less than 150 career NHL games as a backup, a first ballot Hall of Famer who's arguably the greatest goalie of alltime and a guy who played drunk and without a mask for over 700 games more than Hutton while winning the Calder/multiple Vezina/ Stanley Cups. . 

 

Goalies do tend to start their careers later than other positions. But Hutton is about as comparable to those two as Andrew MacDonald is to Bobby Orr.

OK, Worsely just jumped off the top of my head.  Eddie Giacomin, Gerry Cheevers, Vashouin ( have no idea how to spell it) and more  I believe played at pretty old ages for sports.

[AJgoal]

36 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Well, just off the top of my head, the situations in Ottawa and Arizona are not exactly ideal. 

 

Raanta is the guy in Arizona. They need everything else, though. Anderson is definitely coming to the end, but he's still the starter in Ottawa. And given the tight pockets of ownership, I doubt they're looking to shell out for a second starter-level salary.

[ruxpin]

25 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

OK, Worsely just jumped off the top of my head.  Eddie Giacomin, Gerry Cheevers, Vashouin ( have no idea how to spell it) and more  I believe played at pretty old ages for sports.

I'm with you on the age part. There are many examples.  My concern would be a 32 year old who's never been a starter being signed to be a starter. I think that's a huge mistake. I mean, it could work out, but I think odds are against. 

 

If a team like Buffalo or Philly (or whomever) is signing him to share the crease (40ish games, give or take 10) I think it might be worth it. Hopefully, that kind of situation is realistically what he's looking for. If so, given his age, Buffalo may actually be the better spot for him. I just think Buffalo might be in a better position to offer a longer term. He needs to go for money and /or term at 32.  Four years would be ideal for him. That's probably 2 years too long in Philly but could possibly work in Buffalo.  Thoughts? 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Raanta is the guy in Arizona. They need everything else, though. Anderson is definitely coming to the end, but he's still the starter in Ottawa. And given the tight pockets of ownership, I doubt they're looking to shell out for a second starter-level salary.

I would think Anderson would have to move for them to be in a position to shop for goalies. I agree, I don't see them putting that much money in the goalie position.  I could see them trying to move Anderson, but they may have trouble finding takers unless they retain salary. I don't think they're willing to do that. 

[AJgoal]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I would think Anderson would have to move for them to be in a position to shop for goalies. I agree, I don't see them putting that much money in the goalie position.  I could see them trying to move Anderson, but they may have trouble finding takers unless they retain salary. I don't think they're willing to do that. 

 

$4,750,000 for two years. I don't know that salary would need to be retained. The question is, did Anderson have the worst season of his career because he's reached the end, or because Ottawa was terribad?

[brelic]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'm with you on the age part. There are many examples.  My concern would be a 32 year old who's never been a starter being signed to be a starter. I think that's a huge mistake. I mean, it could work out, but I think odds are against. 

 

If a team like Buffalo or Philly (or whomever) is signing him to share the crease (40ish games, give or take 10) I think it might be worth it. Hopefully, that kind of situation is realistically what he's looking for. If so, given his age, Buffalo may actually be the better spot for him. I just think Buffalo might be in a better position to offer a longer term. He needs to go for money and /or term at 32.  Four years would be ideal for him. That's probably 2 years too long on Philly but could possibly work in Buffalo.  Thoughts? 

 

I don't think 4 years is too long at all. It would be a problem if we had TWO guys under contract for that long... but just one guy who isn't a clear-cut #1? No problem, I say.

 

Unless Hart is the second coming of Brodeur, the odds are he will not be an *effective* and *impact* NHL goalie - let alone starter - until at least THREE years from now. If it happens sooner, then the other guy becomes backup for a few. If it doesn't happen sooner, or not at all, then we're not left high and dry without a goalie.

 

So in the end, I think 4 years is just about right, actually. The best case scenario is that both Hart and Sandstrom make it impossible to keep them in the AHL, at which point you deal one of Hart or Sandstrom or the goalie behind door #3 lol.

 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, AJgoal said:

 

$4,750,000 for two years. I don't know that salary would need to be retained. The question is, did Anderson have the worst season of his career because he's reached the end, or because Ottawa was terribad?

 

I think Anderson had a bad year and Ottawa was terribad.   I don't know that Anderson's done.   I'm saying retain salary because I don't know that a team wants to risk nearly $5M on that question.    It may not be necessary, you're right, but I think if they don't retain salary that the value of the return goes down.    They may do that, though, if the idea is move Anderson out so they can bring in another option.

 

He has ties to the Philly area, so I'm only hoping it's not to the Flyers unless we're trading a package for a Hoffman/Anderson or Stone/Anderson package.   Then, for me, it's about the forward and we get the two-year bridge goalie.

 

Now that I've typed that, go ahead and make the call.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I don't think 4 years is too long at all. It would be a problem if we had TWO guys under contract for that long... but just one guy who isn't a clear-cut #1? No problem, I say.

 

Unless Hart is the second coming of Brodeur, the odds are he will not be an *effective* and *impact* NHL goalie - let alone starter - until at least THREE years from now. If it happens sooner, then the other guy becomes backup for a few. If it doesn't happen sooner, or not at all, then we're not left high and dry without a goalie.

 

So in the end, I think 4 years is just about right, actually. The best case scenario is that both Hart and Sandstrom make it impossible to keep them in the AHL, at which point you deal one of Hart or Sandstrom or the goalie behind door #3 lol.

 

 

I'm hoping Sandstrom comes up and becomes that bridge, but I get what you're saying.   That said, I may go three years, but I'm not going four.  I think that's too long.  And I really don't want a situation where we're relying on Hutton to be the starter.  I really like what he's done in St. Louis but I'm with jammer on the hesitation on making a 32 year old career backup suddenly a starter.  I guess it kind of worked with Martin Biron, but really only for 2 years (Biron was only 30, but the comparison is still apt, I think).  

 

I don't think Hutton is worth the term.   Two years yes.  After that, we have worse than what we just experienced this past year.  If we need more time with the kids (Sandstrom should be next year, in theory, and Hart the following or year after), then go out and get another Hutton type then, or extend Hutton.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Well, just off the top of my head, the situations in Ottawa and Arizona are not exactly ideal. 

 

Ottawa still has Anderson so like I said if he wants to be a backup have at it.

 

Yotes have already got Raanta and they extended Kuemper already as his backup so if he wants to be the 3rd goalie by all means then...

 

...so that leaves him with Philly where he might be able to unseat Elliott or stay with the Blues and compete with Allen.

 

Or Buffalo if they and he are interested.

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm hoping Sandstrom comes up and becomes that bridge, but I get what you're saying.   That said, I may go three years, but I'm not going four.  I think that's too long.  And I really don't want a situation where we're relying on Hutton to be the starter.  I really like what he's done in St. Louis but I'm with jammer on the hesitation on making a 32 year old career backup suddenly a starter.  I guess it kind of worked with Martin Biron, but really only for 2 years (Biron was only 30, but the comparison is still apt, I think).  

 

I don't think Hutton is worth the term.   Two years yes.  After that, we have worse than what we just experienced this past year.  If we need more time with the kids (Sandstrom should be next year, in theory, and Hart the following or year after), then go out and get another Hutton type then, or extend Hutton.

 

I agree I would go 3 but would be scared of 4.

 

And hell it ain't like you can't sign him to a one year deal if he is still worth it then.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

stay with the Blues and compete with Allen.

 

This may actually be his best option, provided Armstrong is game.

 

I guess Johnson isn't resigning in Buffalo?   They still have Lehner and Linus.  Ullmark is 24, so he may be about ready.   I've never been sold on Lehner, but he played behind a simply horrendous defense.    If I'm Buffalo, I stick with what i have until I know what I have in Ullmark.   Hutton just crowds that unless I'm moving Lehner and having Hutton be a tandem with Ullmark and then ultimately backup.  

 

St. Louis is probably Hutton's best option, only because I really think Allen stinks.   After that, it really probably is Philly.  Then quite possibly Carolina, though they've just been burned on the backup-to-starter thing.  If he's simply looking for backup roles, Calgary or Colorado (if Bernier moves) or Detroit.

[jammer2]

3 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

Raanta is the guy in Arizona. They need everything else, though. Anderson is definitely coming to the end, but he's still the starter in Ottawa. And given the tight pockets of ownership, I doubt they're looking to shell out for a second starter-level salary.

 

Ah, I said Zona cause I thought Raanta was a pending UFA...he must have signed an extension. 

 

 At one point, Dell, Raanta and Hutton were all pending ufa's....but 2 of the 3 signed.

[Buffalo Rick]

5 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I'm with you on the age part. There are many examples.  My concern would be a 32 year old who's never been a starter being signed to be a starter. I think that's a huge mistake. I mean, it could work out, but I think odds are against. 

 

If a team like Buffalo or Philly (or whomever) is signing him to share the crease (40ish games, give or take 10) I think it might be worth it. Hopefully, that kind of situation is realistically what he's looking for. If so, given his age, Buffalo may actually be the better spot for him. I just think Buffalo might be in a better position to offer a longer term. He needs to go for money and /or term at 32.  Four years would be ideal for him. That's probably 2 years too long in Philly but could possibly work in Buffalo.  Thoughts? 

Well I still do not know where this big Finn fits into the equation?  How good is he? When will he get his shot? Will he play in Rochester this year.?  I do not think Hutton is going to get the type of money that a guy like Fluery or Bishop or Quick is going to get.  Or Allen.  

[Buffalo Rick]

4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

This may actually be his best option, provided Armstrong is game.

 

I guess Johnson isn't resigning in Buffalo?   They still have Lehner and Linus.  Ullmark is 24, so he may be about ready.   I've never been sold on Lehner, but he played behind a simply horrendous defense.    If I'm Buffalo, I stick with what i have until I know what I have in Ullmark.   Hutton just crowds that unless I'm moving Lehner and having Hutton be a tandem with Ullmark and then ultimately backup.  

 

St. Louis is probably Hutton's best option, only because I really think Allen stinks.   After that, it really probably is Philly.  Then quite possibly Carolina, though they've just been burned on the backup-to-starter thing.  If he's simply looking for backup roles, Calgary or Colorado (if Bernier moves) or Detroit.

Do you honestly think we want Chad Johnson back?   We are not that crazy.  And HELL NO, he is finished in Buffalo.  And Allen does not stink.  Yao stinks.  The Blues and Sabres are going to come back and put hair on the wall

[ruxpin]

35 minutes ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Do you honestly think we want Chad Johnson back?

 

Not in a million years.  I wasn't even implying that.  I was just going through what Buffalo does or doesn't have.

 

I actually think with Lehner (who I don't like) and Ullmark, you may be good to go.  I think anyone else in the system is at least 2 years away.   By "big Finn," I take it you mean Luukkonen?  He's 19.  I'm thinking you have probably a 3-5 year wait yet.  I know, that's painful.   They may be playing it smart because they haven't signed him yet.  No ELC clock ticking.  There's still a lot of growing to do there (as a goalie and as a little more bulk.  He's tall at 6'5", but he's smallish at 196 lb).

 

 

[Buffalo Rick]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Not in a million years.  I wasn't even implying that.  I was just going through what Buffalo does or doesn't have.

 

I actually think with Lehner (who I don't like) and Ullmark, you may be good to go.  I think anyone else in the system is at least 2 years away.   By "big Finn," I take it you mean Luukkonen?  He's 19.  I'm thinking you have probably a 3-5 year wait yet.  I know, that's painful.   They may be playing it smart because they haven't signed him yet.  No ELC clock ticking.  There's still a lot of growing to do there (as a goalie and as a little more bulk.  He's tall at 6'5", but he's smallish at 196 lb).

 

 

I am hoping for Lehner to be replaced.  Ullmark is going to be the backup.  I would rather have Miller's old backup, but doubt that will happen.  But I am hoping to grab someone in FA.  If not we will need to score a ton of goals to even think about sneaking into a low seed.  But who really cares about that anyway.  I have been down that road enough.

 

Jhonas Enroth who plays for Team Sweden is better than Lehner

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Hockey Junkie said:

Jhonas Enroth who plays for Team Sweden is better than Lehner

 

yeah, I'm not a fan of Lehner either.  I was concerned for Buffalo when they got him from Ottawa.   But his peripheral numbers aren't horrible.  If you stabilize your defense, he should be sufficient.  At least enough to get to the playoffs.  Once there, I'm not comfortable with him.  

 

Ullmark should be a starter.  His numbers in the A are decent and they were really good in his brief stint in the NHL.   I wouldn't want to just hand the reins over to him yet, but Lehner or whomever you replace him with should carry a 40-50 game load this year  unless Ullmark proves he can steal the show.

 

I don't know the answer to this, so to you AND others:   Is Dahlin NHL-ready or likely a year or two out?    Because even if he's ready this year, you'd think there'd be growing pains but that your defense should be significantly better by next year.

[Buffalo Rick]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

yeah, I'm not a fan of Lehner either.  I was concerned for Buffalo when they got him from Ottawa.   But his peripheral numbers aren't horrible.  If you stabilize your defense, he should be sufficient.  At least enough to get to the playoffs.  Once there, I'm not comfortable with him.  

 

Ullmark should be a starter.  His numbers in the A are decent and they were really good in his brief stint in the NHL.   I wouldn't want to just hand the reins over to him yet, but Lehner or whomever you replace him with should carry a 40-50 game load this year  unless Ullmark proves he can steal the show.

 

I don't know the answer to this, so to you AND others:   Is Dahlin NHL-ready or likely a year or two out?    Because even if he's ready this year, you'd think there'd be growing pains but that your defense should be significantly better by next year.

This is not the NBA.  Much tougher to get to the playoffs with so many teams.  Lehner sucks in shootouts more than any goalie I have ever seen.  I wish I had 5 minutes with him so I can tell him what he is doing wrong. Enroth is a small goalie but very good.   Team Germany who pulled off the huge upset and won Gold, has a few guys I would not mind having.  Back to the Finnish kid, at 19 I do not think 3-5 years away is a fair statement.  If he is good he could be in Rochester next year. If he plays well in the AHL, who knows.  But if that is not the plan, then they must make a deal.  Like the one for Hasek when they robbed the Blackhawks blind.  LOL.  Unlikely to be repeated.  But usually Buffalo has had the knack of finding a goalie that is good at least.  If they get Dahlin, I wonder if they will split him and Ristolainen or pair them?  What do you think?  Obviously on a power play they likely would be paired?  Unless they alternated and used 4 forwards and one D man?