Schenn on pace for 101 pts...

[jammer2]

 Did *anyone* see this coming?  Brayden sits at 26 pts in 21 games. That works out to 100.8 pts in 82 games, rounded up, on pace for 101 pts on the season. I still contend, he was a square peg on a round hole for the Flyers. Brayden is fitting in perfectly with the Blues....and his new linemates Tarasenko and Schwartz. The 3 guys work great together, their skill sets working perfectly off each other. The only line the Flyers have close to the Blues top unit is Giroux and Vorachek, AND we know from last year, they did not work together, at all. Actually, Brayden did not work on the second line with Simmonds either. Just one of those deals where new linemates, a new team, new conference, new fans...it all worked out perfectly for the Blues. 

 

 Schenn was just not working out in Philly. He slowed down every line combination in the Flyers top 6, consistently and without fail. This is not a case where the Flyers were not patient, in fact, it was quite the opposite. They tried every line combination, every position.....they tried everything they could have. For whatever reason, it was just not meant to be in Philly. No one's fault, he just did *not* fit. 

 

 The return, Morgan Frost from last summers first round and whoever they get from the Blues first rounder next summer, it looked very respectable at the time. I still contend that Hexy could not have hoped to have done better than this return. The guy is 25 and had never put up 60 pts, before this outrageous offensive burst. To make things worse, the Blues look like the best team in hockey and the pick will probably be 31st or 30th...at the very end of the first round....and Schenn will be a major reason why. Stunning. Hexy, or any other GM could just not have seen this coming. If he was on Philly right now, he would have the exact same middle of the road pts, middle of the road projections for a top 6 forward. One of those cases where a new team and new (super elite) linemates worked out perfectly....unreal. 

[pilldoc]

@jammer2

 

Only in Flyerland .....only in Flyerland ..........

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, jammer2 said:

 Did *anyone* see this coming?  Brayden sits at 26 pts in 21 games. That works out to 100.8 pts in 82 games, rounded up, on pace for 101 pts on the season. I still contend, he was a square peg on a round hole for the Flyers. Brayden is fitting in perfectly with the Blues....and his new linemates Tarasenko and Schwartz. The 3 guys work great together, their skill sets working perfectly off each other. The only line the Flyers have close to the Blues top unit is Giroux and Vorachek, AND we know from last year, they did not work together, at all. Actually, Brayden did not work on the second line with Simmonds either. Just one of those deals where new linemates, a new team, new conference, new fans...it all worked out perfectly for the Blues. 

 

 Schenn was just not working out in Philly. He slowed down every line combination in the Flyers top 6, consistently and without fail. This is not a case where the Flyers were not patient, in fact, it was quite the opposite. They tried every line combination, every position.....they tried everything they could have. For whatever reason, it was just not meant to be in Philly. No one's fault, he just did *not* fit. 

 

 The return, Morgan Frost from last summers first round and whoever they get from the Blues first rounder next summer, it looked very respectable at the time. I still contend that Hexy could not have hoped to have done better than this return. The guy is 25 and had never put up 60 pts, before this outrageous offensive burst. To make things worse, the Blues look like the best team in hockey and the pick will probably be 31st or 30th...at the very end of the first round....and Schenn will be a major reason why. Stunning. Hexy, or any other GM could just not have seen this coming. If he was on Philly right now, he would have the exact same middle of the road pts, middle of the road projections for a top 6 forward. One of those cases where a new team and new (super elite) linemates worked out perfectly....unreal. 

 

Yeah, but the Flyers got Lehtera, so it's all good.

[FD19372]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, but the Flyers got Lehtera, so it's all good.

I just want to see if Schenn thanks Ron Hextall in his HOF speech. 

[icehole]

What does "conditional" mean in conditional first round draft pick.  If the flyers get the blues first rounder, there has to be some sort of condition since they used that term.

 

I didn't see this coming, but I knew schenn was a good player.  Whether he fit or not, he was near the top of the flyers scoring list for the past couple of years.  I think it's a bad move to trade a top scorer when your team lacks scoring ability.  That's seems like common sense.

 

Hextall isn't interested in putting a good team out there right now though.  He wants to ride this out as long as he can.  Once the team turns it around in 5 years (almost every team comes around eventually), he'll get the glory. 

 

I'm not so sure he did get a good return.  We knew schenn was improving to the point of being one of the teams top scorers.  We also knew he was drafted 5th overall and had the pedigree to become a great player.  What do we know about frost?  Are we to "expect" that the 27th pick will be better than the 5th pick (in a good draft class)?  Can we even expect the 27th pick to be better than the disappointing version of schenn (60 points or so).  I don't expect either.  We did get Lehtera though so we're good.

[jammer2]

5 hours ago, FD19372 said:

I just want to see if Schenn thanks Ron Hextall in his HOF speech. 

 

 I'm wondering if the Blues GM Doug Armstrong did a bit of research on Ex-Flyers tendency to attend parades in early June?  I mean, jeez...the Blues chances of winning it all went up 10-15% as soon as they got a prominent ex-Flyer on their payroll...sad, but true. 

[jammer2]

1 minute ago, icehole said:

What does "conditional" mean in conditional first round draft pick.  If the flyers get the blues first rounder, there has to be some sort of condition since they used that term.

 

 

 I believe the Blues have top 10 protection for the 2018 draft. If St.Louis was to finish in the bottom 10, they could force the Flyers to move the pick to the 2019 draft. In other words, the Flyers get next year Blues 1st rounder, unless the best team in hockey has a collapse for the ages. 

[jammer2]

13 minutes ago, icehole said:

I'm not so sure he did get a good return.  We knew schenn was improving to the point of being one of the teams top scorers.  We also knew he was drafted 5th overall and had the pedigree to become a great player.  What do we know about frost?  Are we to "expect" that the 27th pick will be better than the 5th pick (in a good draft class)?  Can we even expect the 27th pick to be better than the disappointing version of schenn (60 points or so).  I don't expect either.  We did get Lehtera though so we're good.

 

 Schenn did nothing great, a lot of things good. I disagree he had the pedigree to become a great player, maybe on St.Louis, certainly not on the Flyers. Brayden went high in his draft year, and a big part of that was his dominance in the World Jr's the year before. The NHL landscape is littered with players who played great in the world jr's and it never carried over to the NHL...ditto for being the 5th pick overall. Strictly from a Flyers perspective, they got 2 first rounders for a 2nd line player, again...due to him never clicking with Giroux and Vorachek. 

 

 I can tell you one thing, Frost can skate circles around Schenn and he can generate offense on his own. Schenn is totally reliant upon his linemates to create scoring chances. The better the linemates, the more he will contribute offensively. He was tried with G and V....it never worked. In other words, he was only going to be a 2nd line player in Philly. For whatever reason, he clicked with Tarasenko and Schwartz, but that kind of production was never going to happen here. 

 

 Another factor that is always overlooked in trading Schenn, a *real* good chance Cooter would never have been moved to the top line had Schenn stayed, and his production is outrageous on that top line. After years of struggling, the Flyers are finally getting respectable production from Cooter....and a big part of that was removing Brayden from the 2nd line and freeing up space on the top 2 lines. 

[jammer2]

6 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, but the Flyers got Lehtera, so it's all good.

 

 That steaming pile of poo cannot get out town early enough. Whatever possessed the Blues to give him 5 mill a year is beyond me. Good work by Anderson to get rid of that contract in this deal. It will take 3 years or so to even get an early return on if Schenn + Lehtpoop's cap hit = the two first rounders. All I know is Frost is a legit player and skates like the wind and the 2018 draft is super deep. Frost has the chance to become a cornerstone kind of guy due to smarts and speed. Schenn does not skate well enough to be deemed a cornerstone type. Brayden is a complementary type of player, Frost...we don't know at all. 

 

 It's early. Sure, Schenn is red hot for the Blues right now, but he STUNK in the playoffs for the Flyers. The real test of this deal is how will Brayden perform in the playoffs for the Blues. A great regular season and a mediocre playoff would substantially lessen Brayden's value.  There are so many variables yet to play out, it's kinda silly to even try to come to a conclusion on this deal....like I said, we will need 3 years to even come close to labeling it a yay or nay. 

[jammer2]

50 minutes ago, icehole said:

I didn't see this coming, but I knew schenn was a good player.  Whether he fit or not, he was near the top of the flyers scoring list for the past couple of years.  I think it's a bad move to trade a top scorer when your team lacks scoring ability.  That's seems like common sense.

 

 

 I think one of the deciding factors on trading him was his lack of speed. He is and always will be a very average skater. When you start going deep in the playoffs, that becomes a mismatch, when one of your top 6 can't keep up with the frantic pace of the game. Usually, elite teams that go to the conference finals are filled with elite or at least better than average skaters in their top 6. Toronto's top 6 can all fly, and inevitably, they will be a team you have to beat in the East, ditto with Columbus.

[icehole]

Your post is outdated.  Schenn has 30 points after a 4 point night.

[OccamsRazor]

Yeah for Schenn.

 

I would expect something like this from him.

 

Kid has already been traded twice despite his youth.

 

Let's look and see how he does beyond this year and how he does as far as consistency goes.

 

In fact he is on a team with a whole lot of prove it players and it is just November. Zero pressure right now on the whole team as well. This team has had high expectations for years now that they have yet to prove come playoff time.

 

Let's see how they are playing mid march and revisit this then.

 

And as far as Schenn goes he has improved every year so not shocked at his improvement.

 

He is playing with some damn good players.

 

The Flyers tried to find a fit for him by moving him around.

 

The only thing they can be faulted for is that he never had much stability as in one spot with the same players for long.

 

Yet and what point do we hold the player accountable for take his spot among the lineup?

 

He for whatever reason just never developed much chemistry with anyone besides Coots.

 

I am like his brother coming here, and his trade happy moving them. Just not completely happy with the return.

 

I was happy moving JVR i didn't like Luke in return.

 

I was ok trading Brayden i like the two 1st round picks for him. Didn't like Lehtera coming back.

 

However i could have lived with Lehtera for just this year next year too at 4.7 mill as well pisses me off!

[brelic]

I guess the million dollar question is this - why were the Flyers unable to help Schenn reach his potential?

 

It's gotta be more than just linemates. Giroux and Voracek are not scrubs. 

 

 

[radoran]

51 minutes ago, brelic said:

I guess the million dollar question is this - why were the Flyers unable to help Schenn reach his potential?

 

It's gotta be more than just linemates. Giroux and Voracek are not scrubs. 

 

I don't ever recall Schenn ever centering the VeeGees. Look what that did for Couturier.

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I don't ever recall Schenn ever centering the VeeGees. Look what that did for Couturier.

 

Well this club has never been to good at looking right under their noses and exhausting all thise resources first.

 

They are notorious for knee jerk looking at the greener grass on the other side type of stuff.

 

Just llok at their current lack of scoring issue they have now they won't even give their leading scorer in the AHL a look at see if he can do the same in the NHL.

 

They prefer to rearrange the deck chairs on the sinking ship!!!!

 

#winningways

[mojo1917]

37 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I don't ever recall Schenn ever centering the VeeGees. Look what that did for Couturier.

I see this and think , yeah that....

but then I remember he had been tried just about everywhere in the top 6 including the pivot. Nothing he did from a playmaking perspective ever made me think, yeah that's the guy to be driving the play.  He was terrible keeping possession of the puck here. I never saw him make a pass to scrub linemate where if they were a better player they could make something happen.  I did see that all the time with #14.  I am happy Schenn's finding success, he's a salt of the earth guy,  I never thought he was more than a B, B- player for us.  This season's young, he will cool off, a guy could get called up for the Flyers and have success, guys could get healthy. there's a lot to be determined.

 

 

[Samifan]

With these stats, Schenn will soon be claimed as HJ’s favorite Blue of all time! 

[elmatus]

It's a tough situation for sure. On the one hand, it seems clear Schenn had more to offer than what he showed in PHI. He spent plenty of time with Giroux and Voracek, and it didn't amount to much. Those were and remain the best we've had to offer in terms of linemates. Are Schwartz and Tarasenko the difference in this case? Could be.

 

On the other hand, it's hard to blame Hexy for the trade really. Schenn never lived up to expectations here, and that's despite spending a majority of his time in the top six with the best linemates we could offer. Sure, he provided some level of secondary scoring, but most of that was on the pp. He was really quite bad 5v5, which I think was a major knock on him.

 

Is that a systems thing? Could be. I really don't know. All I know is the trade made sense in my mind. Schenn was underperforming, so Hex offloaded him when he figured he could get top dollar. Not many players net a return in the form of two first round picks. Hell, not many players are worth a single one. It's hard to fault Hextall given the situation.

 

Would this have somehow been the year for him? It's possible. It's also entirely possible he would have produced more of the same. If he nets his usual 40-50 pts per year in his time here, I definitely go with the two first rounders. Morph him into a 80+ pt player -- which he never came close to here -- and obviously this is a different question.

 

Maybe there's something in the change of scenery/organization/expectations/systems/linemates that are lining up to bump his play. Maybe this is just a fluke, and he'll come back down to earth shortly. Who knows? I honestly wish him the best. It's clear the move was a good one for him for whatever reason. Sure, I wish he was scoring all those pts for us, but I'm not convinced he would have anyway.

 

And can we drop the Lehtera thing already? He was never intended to be a replacement top six player. He was a salary dump -- plain and simple. Yeah, it sucks having money tied into a guy who is a bottom six player at best, but Hex knew exactly what he was getting. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that he barely makes the line up. In many ways, this is similar to Hartnell for Umberger. Anyone paying attention knew Umberger was a fourth liner at best by the time he made it to PHI. This is the same deal, except in this case we got two first round picks instead of just saving contract length.

[FD19372]

54 minutes ago, Samifan said:

With these stats, Schenn will soon be claimed as HJ’s favorite Blue of all time! 

More than Ryan Miller? Not a chance. 

[Samifan]

49 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

More than Ryan Miller? Not a chance. 

Junkie refuses to think of Miller's time in St Louis or Vancouver. He only remembers him as a Sabre and if you haven't heard, would gladly take him back...

[csummers]

14 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 Did *anyone* see this coming?  Brayden sits at 26 pts in 21 games. That works out to 100.8 pts in 82 games, rounded up, on pace for 101 pts on the season. I still contend, he was a square peg on a round hole for the Flyers. Brayden is fitting in perfectly with the Blues....and his new linemates Tarasenko and Schwartz. The 3 guys work great together, their skill sets working perfectly off each other. The only line the Flyers have close to the Blues top unit is Giroux and Vorachek, AND we know from last year, they did not work together, at all. Actually, Brayden did not work on the second line with Simmonds either. Just one of those deals where new linemates, a new team, new conference, new fans...it all worked out perfectly for the Blues. 

 

 Schenn was just not working out in Philly. He slowed down every line combination in the Flyers top 6, consistently and without fail. This is not a case where the Flyers were not patient, in fact, it was quite the opposite. They tried every line combination, every position.....they tried everything they could have. For whatever reason, it was just not meant to be in Philly. No one's fault, he just did *not* fit. 

 

 The return, Morgan Frost from last summers first round and whoever they get from the Blues first rounder next summer, it looked very respectable at the time. I still contend that Hexy could not have hoped to have done better than this return. The guy is 25 and had never put up 60 pts, before this outrageous offensive burst. To make things worse, the Blues look like the best team in hockey and the pick will probably be 31st or 30th...at the very end of the first round....and Schenn will be a major reason why. Stunning. Hexy, or any other GM could just not have seen this coming. If he was on Philly right now, he would have the exact same middle of the road pts, middle of the road projections for a top 6 forward. One of those cases where a new team and new (super elite) linemates worked out perfectly....unreal. 

 

  When you trade away a guy who has scored 25 goals twice in a season before he is even 25 years old you get what you deserve when you cant score goals. How is lehtera coming along? 

 Horrible trade. I said it then and I was attacked for it. Now its proven right. Teams are going out of their minds to find 25 goal scorers right now and the flyers developed one and traded him for a guy who cant score to save his life.

 No big shock.

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, csummers said:

 

  When you trade away a guy who has scored 25 goals twice in a season before he is even 25 years old you get what you deserve when you cant score goals. How is lehtera coming along? 

 Horrible trade. I said it then and I was attacked for it. Now its proven right. Teams are going out of their minds to find 25 goal scorers right now and the flyers developed one and traded him for a guy who cant score to save his life.

 No big shock.

They'll sign Tavares in the summer and all will be forgiven.

[Lindbergh31]

7 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Schenn did nothing great, a lot of things good. I disagree he had the pedigree to become a great player, maybe on St.Louis, certainly not on the Flyers. Brayden went high in his draft year, and a big part of that was his dominance in the World Jr's the year before. The NHL landscape is littered with players who played great in the world jr's and it never carried over to the NHL...ditto for being the 5th pick overall. Strictly from a Flyers perspective, they got 2 first rounders for a 2nd line player, again...due to him never clicking with Giroux and Vorachek. 

 

 I can tell you one thing, Frost can skate circles around Schenn and he can generate offense on his own. Schenn is totally reliant upon his linemates to create scoring chances. The better the linemates, the more he will contribute offensively. He was tried with G and V....it never worked. In other words, he was only going to be a 2nd line player in Philly. For whatever reason, he clicked with Tarasenko and Schwartz, but that kind of production was never going to happen here. 

 

 Another factor that is always overlooked in trading Schenn, a *real* good chance Cooter would never have been moved to the top line had Schenn stayed, and his production is outrageous on that top line. After years of struggling, the Flyers are finally getting respectable production from Cooter....and a big part of that was removing Brayden from the 2nd line and freeing up space on the top 2 lines. 

This isn't Schenn's contract year is it? The Flyers played Schenn is different forward positions and he never seemed to click with his linemates. He's doing well in St.Louis so far but it's a long season and we'll see how he performs in the playoffs. I like the trade because Hextall is thinking a couple of years down the road when he has to resign Provorov and other young players. Schenn wasn't part of their long term plan so they traded him when they could get a high return. It seems Schenn is doing better playing centre than he did wing.

[ruxpin]

45 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

This isn't Schenn's contract year is it? The Flyers played Schenn is different forward positions and he never seemed to click with his linemates. He's doing well in St.Louis so far but it's a long season and we'll see how he performs in the playoffs. I like the trade because Hextall is thinking a couple of years down the road when he has to resign Provorov and other young players. Schenn wasn't part of their long term plan so they traded him when they could get a high return. It seems Schenn is doing better playing centre than he did wing.

 

It's not a contract year, but your post made me wonder.  He had a proclivity for going on a pretty good tear (this is arguably better, but he's in a better situation) and then grow disinterested.  The disinterested may not be fair, because it's also just as likely that one of our MENSA-member coaches suddenly moved him to a different line and/or position.   But going with the hot then disinterested theory, the clock may be approaching 12:00.

 

He does have a better situation and much better linemates, so maybe not.   And center seems to suit him better than wing--much to my dismay/surprise.

[mojo1917]

@csummers

attacked, or disagreed with ?

Attacked would be "you stupid SOB WTH are you thinking?!?!?"

I know I disagreed with you in that thread and I still don't miss Schenn.  He was not playing anywhere near his current level with the Flyers.  Based on his performance with the Flyers he wasn't going to play at his Blues level.  He could still cool off, have a nice year scoring 55 - 60 points.  He wasn't producing even at that level here. 

He's a nice player. He may be "woke" now,  so he's focused. He was given lots of chances to succeed here. He played with G & V he played with second line guys. He was given soft o-zone starts.  He was a turnover waiting to happen 5 v 5 here. I don't know if the trade is win win...we'll have to see what Morgan Frost turns into and what the first rounder this year becomes to fully judge it, my thinking is we'll be okay with the return. It just isn't awesome seening Schenn do somewhere else what we were hoping for here.