Schenn on pace for 101 pts...

[icehole]

39 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

@icehole, I agree with you , the last 4 or 5 years has been the most boring period of Flyers hockey I could ever recall. I used to watch or listen to every game since the 74 season . Now I only watch a handful of games. The team really has no personality and no fire. In the old days ,as you said , the team came out to play every night. In the old days even if we weren’t winning , we had entertaining players with personality and if we lost we at least beat the crap out of someone or at least took the body and played some tough spirited hockey. Is it me , or did the sports , music and movie industry all become an absolute bore . 

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  I think you hit it right on the head with "personality".  I think identity goes along with that.  What is the identity of this team? 

 

Are they fast?  I was thinking/hoping they would be, but for some reason they're not.  Are they tough?  Hahahaha...not even close.  Are they highly skilled?  That might even be funnier than the last one.  Are they big?  No.  For their size, you would think they would be skating circles around bigger teams.

 

It used to be tradition to go to the black Friday game.  Wake up a little early, meet up with friends, drive down, tailgate/xfinity live.  This team is almost unwatchable as it is, but thanks to the geniuses that moved the game back to 4 and ruined tradition, I will not be going or watching.  I will be going to Hershy with the family instead.

[ruxpin]

42 minutes ago, icehole said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  I think you hit it right on the head with "personality".  I think identity goes along with that.  What is the identity of this team? 

 

[pilldoc]

8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

 

Spot on I say ......

[elmatus]

18 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 F**K Carter getting 60 goals, Cooter is gonna do it.....LMAO!

 

Is Cooter the new Carter? Is Cooter Carter 2.0? It's your time to carry the cart Cooter. What once was Carter is now Cooter.

[JR Ewing]

4 hours ago, icehole said:

A dumb guy like me watches NHL games and asks "is he producing?  Can he skate as fast or faster than the guys he plays against?  Can he stick with the guys he's defending? is he creating scoring chances?  Do I even notice him on the ice in games?"  I can't say those things for most of this young "talent". 

 

One of my VERY subjective "did he have a good game?" things is a left-over from the days when far fewer games were on TV, and we had to rely on radio. If, during the course of play, you hear the player's name over and over, getting more touches, involved in the play, etc, odds are he's having a good game. As the games pile up, and and he has more and more of those sorts of games, we're talking about a good player.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, icehole said:

You know I have no patience. 

 

 

Then you might not want to watch for awhile.

 

They are going through some issues right. And they have to work their way out of it.

 

The coaching staff needs be a big part of this change and adjustment. There is no exact science to it or amount of games it will take.

 

There are a lot of moving parts involved.

 

5 hours ago, icehole said:

Here's the truth.  You guys are all smarter than me.  You watch more lower level hockey, and you study more young players.  I think by doing so though, you are making it more difficult than it has to be.  A dumb guy like me watches NHL games and asks "is he producing?  Can he skate as fast or faster than the guys he plays against?  Can he stick with the guys he's defending? is he creating scoring chances?  Do I even notice him on the ice in games?"  I can't say those things for most of this young "talent". 

 

It is not that simple.

 

Every sport goes through this type of stuff.

 

It is hard as hell to project kids.

 

It is a little easier maybe in the NFL because by then you are projecting young men 22-24 years old.

 

And yet still there is failure sometimes.

 

There is no straight line in development. Most do it differently at different times. Look no further than Ivan and Sam. Different ages and they are developing at different times. Also because Sam is taking longer doesn't just make him worse.

 

A lot of variables go into it.

 

Kid's have the skills the coaches are suppose to help them develop. Yet the kids have to do their homework and most importantly they have to provide their own motivation. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't. So roll the dice!

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, icehole said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  I think you hit it right on the head with "personality".  I think identity goes along with that.  What is the identity of this team? 

 

Are they fast?  I was thinking/hoping they would be, but for some reason they're not.  Are they tough?  Hahahaha...not even close.  Are they highly skilled?  That might even be funnier than the last one.  Are they big?  No.  For their size, you would think they would be skating circles around bigger teams.

 

It used to be tradition to go to the black Friday game.  Wake up a little early, meet up with friends, drive down, tailgate/xfinity live.  This team is almost unwatchable as it is, but thanks to the geniuses that moved the game back to 4 and ruined tradition, I will not be going or watching.  I will be going to Hershy with the family instead.

 

 

Also i want to make sure that i convey you are entitled to your feelings and they are not wrong. However i get it too. It is hard to watch at times.

 

The worst feeling for these kids is it seems they are trying and every mistake end up in the net. They will get through this.

 

I like some of you expected expected a small show of improvement and yet don't see it. It is frustrating i know. At this point i am out of answers. And have endless questions. Not a good place to be. 

[OccamsRazor]

A good read this am. I agree is it time to send TK down to work on his game?? If not then when?

 

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/flyers/danick-martels-debut-highlights-travis-konecnys-regression

 

It helped Laughton mature to where he is at. I think TK needs to go down and get his confidence back and learn how to play defense down there.

[Lindbergh31]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:30 AM, icehole said:

I think one way to see who won the trade would be to ask the team and fans if they like the trade.  I'm not sure you'll find anyone on their side that's saying "I can't believe we had a shot at frost and we let it get away.  And what are we going to do without that 25-31 pick next year.  And we then we threw in Lehtera...what are we going to do without Lehtera!" 

 

I know there are some on the flyers side that miss schenn, don't know what the 27th pick will project to be, don't care about getting another late round pick, and don't like taking on lehtera's contract.  

 

That alone tells me the blues won the deal.  If they have success on top of it, that's just salt in the wound.

Well if the Blues win the cup in the next 3 years with Schenn leading the way in the playoffs (unlike what he did in Philly) then I'll say the Blues won the trade.

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Well if the Blues win the cup in the next 3 years with Schenn leading the way in the playoffs (unlike what he did in Philly) then I'll say the Blues won the trade.

 

 

Sure when that happens you can claim the win for the Blues. It ain't happening.That team won't get past the Preds.

 

 

[ruxpin]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

That team won't get past the Preds.

 

Agreed.  Or someone else.

 

The Blues' biggest hurdle historically has often simply been getting out of their own way.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Agreed.  Or someone else.

 

The Blues' biggest hurdle historically has often simply been getting out of their own way.

 

 

And the prediction with the Preds is just to say f**k it if everyone else is going to make claims in November that no one can yet deny why the f**k can't i........so there is mine!!!

 

But seriously i think Preds are the team to beat out West. They stacked. The only question can Rinne hold down the net.

[ruxpin]

If you had told me that at the quarter mark (and with one less game played) that the Flyers would have the same number of goals as Pittsburgh and have given up 15 less goals, I'd have thought they were doing really well in the standings. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

If you had told me that at the quarter mark (and with one less game played) that the Flyers would have the same number of goals as Pittsburgh and have given up 15 less goals, I'd have thought they were doing really well in the standings. 

 

 

 

 

Hell i didn't even know that. Yes surprise surprise. Yeah crazy they only sit 4 points behind them and have a game in hand.

 

However they have to start winning some games. It is hard to move up in the standing we have seen over the years for sure.

 

And they are only 5 points behind the Isles in the 3rd spot Metro so it isn't as bad as it seems. But i don't care i want to see some wins.

 

The special teams is killing them. PK and PP has to get better if they want  chance!

 

Crazy their 5 on 5 play has got better and their special teams tank. This club is maddening i tell you!

[Podein25]

Trade him, his value will never be higher.
 

Oh, wait...

[ruxpin]

21 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Trade him, his value will never be higher.
 

Oh, wait...

 

TRADE ALL THE THINGS!

[jammer2]

On 11/24/2017 at 6:03 AM, icehole said:

You know I have no patience.  I never had to endure such a stretch of bad, boring hockey before.  All I've ever known is entertaining hockey.  The flyers have always been competitive.  If they weren't competitive for small stretches, they were at least fun.

 

This new era of flyers hockey has made me lose the game a little.  Their veterans are bland and uninspiring, and besides the creativeness of gost every once in a while, the youth core that Hextall brought in is just boring.  Nobody shows me anything more than slow, gradual improvement, if any. 

 

I want to be pleasantly surprised by someone.  I want to think Hextall got a steal with a player he drafted late.  I hear that every draft year but it never pans out. 

 

I want to have the rookie of the year or at least the best rookie in his position, but that never happens.  If I hear about a guy who's lighting it up in juniors or the AHL, I want him on the team ASAP, and I want him to make a splash in the NHL.

 

Somebody said the other day that they'd rather call up veccione that martel because veccione is more defensively responsible while martel is more of a scoring threat.  What is up with that type of thinking around here lately?  The team can't score goals and we want to see a defensively responsible player called up???  Couturier was that player for 6 years and it didn't help the team at all.  He finally has a chance to losen up a bit, and now he's flourishing.  

 

For  the record, the schenn deal itself doesn't really hurt me that much.  I know he underwhelmed a lot of people (obviously more because of the system and teammates he had to play with).  I'm more upset with the new era of thinking in flyerland.  We live in an era where it's great to trade known talent for unknown late draft picks.  We live in an era where everyone likes watching guys slowly develope in some lower league and project them to be a star in 10 years.

 

Here's the truth.  You guys are all smarter than me.  You watch more lower level hockey, and you study more young players.  I think by doing so though, you are making it more difficult than it has to be.  A dumb guy like me watches NHL games and asks "is he producing?  Can he skate as fast or faster than the guys he plays against?  Can he stick with the guys he's defending? is he creating scoring chances?  Do I even notice him on the ice in games?"  I can't say those things for most of this young "talent". 

 

So I'm not going to get excited about another "project" that we'll see in another 5 years.

 

 I understand where you are coming from....really, I do. The thing is, building from the defense on out is a long arduous process. Hexy identified that the transition game is actually what wins the NHL, so he went down that path. A necessary component for this line of thinking is smart fast skating dmen that can control the flow of the game. NHL dmen don't just control the flow of the game, they must learn the game inside out, master it and then become great at what they do. There are exceptions, like Doughty and Lidstrom who just got it right from the start. 

 

 Patience is indeed what Hexy is asking....but at the same time, it WOULD be nice to have some kind of personality on this team, you are right, it's blah, boring and very tough to watch at times (most times in truth). 

[flyercanuck]

On 11/23/2017 at 5:30 AM, icehole said:

I think one way to see who won the trade would be to ask the team and fans if they like the trade.  I'm not sure you'll find anyone on their side that's saying "I can't believe we had a shot at frost and we let it get away.  And what are we going to do without that 25-31 pick next year.  And we then we threw in Lehtera...what are we going to do without Lehtera!" 

 

I know there are some on the flyers side that miss schenn, don't know what the 27th pick will project to be, don't care about getting another late round pick, and don't like taking on lehtera's contract.  

 

That alone tells me the blues won the deal.  If they have success on top of it, that's just salt in the wound.

 

Spoken like a guy who would have thrown Couturier out with the trash years ago.

 

Frost was weeks away from going in this years draft. Also one of the fastest skaters in the draft. Also sitting at 5th overall in OHL scoring this year. Your patience is....non-existent. 

 

 What would you prefer to have right now....Mike Richards...or Simmonds/Lehtora/Frost and whoever we take with the 1st in this draft? The Kings clearly won that trade twenty something games into the trade. Hows it looking presently?

 

You CAN'T judge a trade for draft picks twenty odd games into the next NHL season.

 

And those complaining about Patrick...we were supposed to pick 14th. I'll take Patrick all day long in that situation. He's played FOURTEEN NHL GAMES!  

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

What would you prefer to have right now....Mike Richards...or Simmonds/Lehtora/Frost and whoever we take with the 1st in this draft? The Kings clearly won that trade twenty something games into the trade. Hows it looking presently?

 

 

Looks to me like the Kings have two Cups, another Finals appearance and are sitting second in the Pacific.

 

The Flyers, meanwhile, are last in their Division and are likely to trade Simmonds for more assets with "a window" that MAY open a few years from now...

 

As the person who brings up turning Prospal and Briere into Adam Burt, I'm curious how long we're going to be waiting to Win Those Trades.

[flyercanuck]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Looks to me like the Kings have two Cups, another Finals appearance and are sitting second in the Pacific.

 

The Flyers, meanwhile, are last in their Division and are likely to trade Simmonds for more assets with "a window" that MAY open a few years from now...

 

As the person who brings up turning Prospal and Briere into Adam Burt, I'm curious how long we're going to be waiting to Win Those Trades.

 

I'm not saying we won the trade, or St Louis won. I'm saying when you trade a player for futures, it's not fair to judge the trade until all aspects of the deal have been realized.

 

I'm pretty sure if you go back a year or two in threads involving Brayden Schenn, I was one of the few people on this board who actually stuck up for the guy...and I'm fine with trading him. But I certainly wasn't asking for him to be dealt.

 

 And last time I checked, neither Schenn, nor Richards play goal...and LA doesn't win a cup without a solid goalie, and neither will the Blues. Nor the Flyers. 

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

And last time I checked, neither Schenn, nor Richards play goal...and LA doesn't win a cup without a solid goalie, and neither will the Blues. Nor the Flyers. 

 

Yeah, the first LA Cup, in particular, was 75% brought to you by Quick.   Not that the team didn't play well, but this wasn't a Chicago situation where they could have had the "time to make the donuts" guy in net.   

 

They probably don't win it without robbing dumbass...er...Holmgren blind, either.

[FD19372]

Schenn was not a fit here....so this is much ado about nothing. I'm happy for him he found a great line he clicks with on the Blues. Lehtera is a nothingburger, so the key is what else we got back in the trade. Let's see how good Morgan Frost becomes before we judge. The conditional pick might be an NHL star in the making, for all we know.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'm not saying we won the trade, or St Louis won. I'm saying when you trade a player for futures, it's not fair to judge the trade until all aspects of the deal have been realized.

 

I'm pretty sure if you go back a year or two in threads involving Brayden Schenn, I was one of the few people on this board who actually stuck up for the guy...and I'm fine with trading him. But I certainly wasn't asking for him to be dealt.

 

 And last time I checked, neither Schenn, nor Richards play goal...and LA doesn't win a cup without a solid goalie, and neither will the Blues. Nor the Flyers. 

 

I think it is fair to note when a player goes to another team, is put in a situation of playing his natural position with solid linemates and suddenly products as he was expected to when traded to the original team.

 

I think it's totally fair to question how that player was used before leaving.

 

I don't miss Schenn. I'm happy with the return RightNow. But if Schenn goes on to be a 80-90 point player for the duration of his current contract, Frost and Whoever better turn out to be Pretty Damn Good.

 

But the book on the Crater/Richards trades is closed. Simmonds is far and away my favorite current Flyer, but it's been SIX SEASONS since they gutted a Cup Final team and they're in last place.

 

That's not good no matter how it is spun.

[pilldoc]

15 minutes ago, radoran said:

I think it's totally fair to question how that player was used before leaving.

 

Then we have some serious issues.  Schenn is not the first player to leave the Flyers and succeed elsewhere.  Then why does it seem that past and present coaching staffs insist on fitting square pegs into round holes.  The standing joke around here is that the Flyers draft centers then try to turn them into wingers and visa-versa.  That type of nonsense has got to stop.  I just don't get the fascination of playing players out of their natural position.  Am I wrong here?

[ruxpin]

19 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I think it is fair to note when a player goes to another team, is put in a situation of playing his natural position with solid linemates and suddenly products as he was expected to when traded to the original team.

 

I think it's totally fair to question how that player was used before leaving.

 

I don't miss Schenn. I'm happy with the return RightNow. But if Schenn goes on to be a 80-90 point player for the duration of his current contract, Frost and Whoever better turn out to be Pretty Damn Good.

 

But the book on the Crater/Richards trades is closed. Simmonds is far and away my favorite current Flyer, but it's been SIX SEASONS since they gutted a Cup Final team and they're in last place.

 

That's not good no matter how it is spun.

 

I'm just dying to see how one argues against this.