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Who should replace Hakstol?


King Knut

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he's just plain out of his league. It's really sad and pitiful at this point. I feel bad for him except I'm so mad at him. 

 

Move been trying for three years to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's just getting outdone regularly.  Tonight's game saw two ridiculous imaginary penalties called against his team and he did nothing.  

 

Then weight just completely outcoached him in th second half.  Utterly shameful and ridiculous. I'm sick of looking at the team he is coaching.  He is NOT an NHL coach.  It's embarrassing to see all this talent being  wasted under him. 

 

So who on earth should replace him.  Ideas?  I've got none.  I'm sick of the revolving door of coaches around this league.  I liked the idea of fresh blood but Hak just had no gusto.  No fire.  No rage at losing and that needs to end right now.  

 

I think i mentioned in another thread that I'm happy for the eagles but I don't really care anymore because they just broke my will to give a damn. 

 

These flyers are just about there with me and I don't know what to do about it. It makes me sad. Simply put, they're better than this.  

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If you believe this is a coaching problem (and part of it might be) but if you see this as a talent problem, than I wonder if we have a more serious GM problem. Is our young talent as good as we've thought it is. Our OT and shootout problems have been of long standing.  We haven't had balanced scoring on this squad for five years.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 Tonight's game saw two ridiculous imaginary penalties called against his team and he did nothing.  

 

What did you expect him to do?  He could have yelled and screamed at the ref until he got his team a bench minor maybe ??  How would that have helped?

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I'm sick of looking at the team he is coaching.

 

How is this Hakstol's fault?   Isn't it Hextall who provides a team for Hakstol to coach?   Why aren't we happy with a team full of youth, it's exactly what many of the fans on this site have been crying for years to put on the ice.... homegrown talent.

 

Did you notice that there were times when the oldest player on the ice for the flyers was 24 years old.  Our youth is going through some growing pains as they are making mistakes.   But we the fans again asked for this.  We wanted to see a defense with Hagg, Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, and Ghost.  We wanted to see Nolan Patrick in a Flyer uniform this season.   It is going to take some time to learn how to play a committed disciplined 60 min hockey game.

 

There were other points to this past game that could have changed the game  -- What if Nolan Patrick scored on his penalty shot?  He's supposed to be top notch rookie talent ... right?  but naahh... blame it all on Hakstol.  What if Giroux took that open shot in the third period instead of passing it into Voracek's feet.  Blame that bad decision on Hackstol too.  

 

McDonald will be back next week and he will help settle the defense.  -  I have a feeling the Flyers will start winning again too.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

If you believe this is a coaching problem (and part of it might be) but if you see this as a talent problem, than I wonder if we have a more serious GM problem. Is our young talent as good as we've thought it is. Our OT and shootout problems have been of long standing.  We haven't had balanced scoring on this squad for five years.  

 

 

 

I honestly don't see it as a talent problem. I really don't.  The. Umber of rookies and players under 21 on this team?  Maybe an experience problem plays into it, but not talent.  I think they'll get there.   There were a half dozen chances for the likes of Konecney and Patrick and Martel that those guys won't miss in 2 or three years when they're grown men with some more experience.  You could say there's a size issue with three of them, but not talent. 

 

Hakstol's team had a two goal lead.  They blew it.  It wasn't due to lack of talent. 

 

Narry a timeout not any other rudimentary attempt to regain control after they lost momentum.  

 

They got abused by the refs and didn't react at all.  

 

It it would be one thing if this was new or rare, but I've been seeing the same problems with hak all along and they're just not changing.  There are just certain parts of NHL coaching he's just clueless on and seems uninterested in fixing.  

 

The team gave him him a two goal lead.  A better coached team on the other side made adjustments and started working harder.  The Flyers had no answer and lost in sad pathetic fashion.  It wasn't talent.  It was coaching. It's been the same his entire time here.  It's no longer VLC and Unberger out there.  This is actually a good team now.  Green.  But good.  They will not win without a better coach.  

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15 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

What did you expect him to do?  He could have yelled and screamed at the ref until he got his team a bench minor maybe ??  How would that have helped?

 

 

How is this Hakstol's fault?   Isn't it Hextall who provides a team for Hakstol to coach?   Why aren't we happy with a team full of youth, it's exactly what many of the fans on this site have been crying for years to put on the ice.... homegrown talent.

 

Did you notice that there were times when the oldest player on the ice for the flyers was 24 years old.  Our youth is going through some growing pains as they are making mistakes.   But we the fans again asked for this.  We wanted to see a defense with Hagg, Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, and Ghost.  We wanted to see Nolan Patrick in a Flyer uniform this season.   It is going to take some time to learn how to play a committed disciplined 60 min hockey game.

 

There were other points to this past game that could have changed the game  -- What if Nolan Patrick scored on his penalty shot?  He's supposed to be top notch rookie talent ... right?  but naahh... blame it all on Hakstol.  What if Giroux took that open shot in the third period instead of passing it into Voracek's feet.  Blame that bad decision on Hackstol too.  

 

McDonald will be back next week and he will help settle the defense.  -  I have a feeling the Flyers will start winning again too.

 

 

 

 

I DO blame it on Hakstol 

 

They are young.  That's not why they lost.  They had the lead and the momentum.  You don't lose momentum in a game your dominating for two periods because of talent.  Weight made adjustments. He Flyers had no answer.  

 

Patrick should have scored?  Did you see how gassed he was ?  He could barely get from the dot to the end line.  Of course he got beat. Be a decent time to calm a timeout if it really want him to score.   St least stalk as much as he can before going... but no.   They barely got the ice cleared and there goes the slowest tied 19 Year Old I've ever seen.  

 

A COACH sees that and does something. 

 

When they get within a goal... if you still have the TO, you call a GD timeout.  You rest your guy's.  You talk them down you give them a few things to do differently to counter the moves the islanders are making and it gives them confidence when they go back out.   This is NHL coaching 101.  They've been losing like this the same way since he got here.  It's sad.  The team is very different aside from the top line and simmer, yet they still lose the same way all the time.   

 

Ive tried to defend him.  I've gotten down on him and come back to giving him the. We fit of the doubt because I want him to work.  But he's just not getting there. 

 

He demands certain things of his young players or he benches them.  They improved and make fewer of those mistakes.   But Hakstol is still Maki g the same mistakes.  

 

His time is up.  Rookies or not, if they lose based on experience or size thats one thing, but they are straight up getting out coached.  And it's happening the same way it did three years ago. 

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7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Patrick should have scored?  Did you see how gassed he was ?  He could barely get from the dot to the end line.  Of course he got beat. Be a decent time to calm a timeout if it really want him to score.   St least stalk as much as he can before going... but no.   They barely got the ice cleared and there goes the slowest tied 19 Year Old I've ever seen.

 

Really? you would have called a timeout on a penalty shot?   Patrick should have had enough time to catch his breath to take the shot either that or he is in really lousy hockey shape.  

 

Calling a timeout so early in a game blows any shot of needing one later in a game to call a coaches challenge.  Sure we used to see coaches like Laviolette call early time outs, but he also doesn't use early time outs anymore as most coaches save them till late in the game.

 

It isn't just Rookies who have been benched as right now gone are Read, Lehtera, and Weise from the line - up.

 

This team just needs to make better decisions on the ice and play a full 60 minutes.  These losses are not on Hakstoll.

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31 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

Really? you would have called a timeout on a penalty shot?   Patrick should have had enough time to catch his breath to take the shot either that or he is in really lousy hockey shape.  

 

Calling a timeout so early in a game blows any shot of needing one later in a game to call a coaches challenge.  Sure we used to see coaches like Laviolette call early time outs, but he also doesn't use early time outs anymore as most coaches save them till late in the game.

 

It isn't just Rookies who have been benched as right now gone are Read, Lehtera, and Weise from the line - up.

 

This team just needs to make better decisions on the ice and play a full 60 minutes.  These losses are not on Hakstoll.

 

I wouldn't have, because they didn't need the goal.  I mentioned other stalking tactics.  But Patrick clearly didn't take enough time regardless.  

 

You're missing my point.   Has Hakstol EVER taken a timeout?  

 

They're not making bad choices, they're getting beaten by coaching adjustments on the other side.   They're out of position not because of bad choices. It because they're not seeing that the attack has changed from period to period.  The trailing man is sneaking up on them. That's how they're losing these game repeatedly.  

 

Theyre getting chalkenged more and making fewer fewer clean passes and they're not adjusting.   Essentially they are executing fairly well what they set out to execute.  It's getting them leads.  

 

They're simply failing to adjust when the other team's coach starts adjusting to what they're bringing. 

 

Who puts Manning out in OT?  

Most of his OT combos were kinda bonkers.  

 

He's putting them in a position to fail.  If I hadn't been.complaining about the same company so for three years and 5/6 of a totally different lineup, then I'd be more willing to accept other explanations.  

 

The team is young, but that is NOT why they aren't winning.  And Hak saying how they're getting points so that's a good thing just shows he knows he's in trouble.  

 

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The personnel on this team is just not a good mix, but Hakstol needs to go now. I've seen enough. This guy was supposed to be good for the younger players and it just hasn't worked out. I'm more than a little tired of constant line juggling. They can't gain chemistry if don't play together enough, and yeah his use of timeouts leave something to be desired, as well. They just aren't talented enough, AND they don't have a ship that has a good rudder. Bring in this guy.

 

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Say what you want about the Kings struggles in the last couple of seasons under him, but 2 Stanley Cups are 2 Stanley Cups. It helps also that he had a world class goalie, and we don't yet, but maybe Hart, Lyon or even Stolarz could be that guy waiting in the wings. Maybe we'll finally have a GM and coach who realizes you don't give away a goalie with world-class potential. You hire the right people to tap that potential.

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1 hour ago, hf101 said:

 

What did you expect him to do?  He could have yelled and screamed at the ref until he got his team a bench minor maybe ??  How would that have helped?

 

 

You don't scream, but you let them know they're wrong.  Other coaches do it all the time and it gets you make up calls.  It works!  Weight did it tonight.  The Devils coach and that Whiney brat tortorella are brilliant at it.   You open a dialogue and you let them know they screwed up and they owe you one.  It happens all the time and it works.  

 

And  s as far as a disciplined 60 minutes goes, when you're playing a well coached team, the form that discipline takes will need to change.  

 

When the other guy's crack your system, you need to be able to adjust.  The Flyers Can't.  So they lose games they should have had won. 

 

That's coaching. 

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15 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

The personnel on this team is just not a good mix, but Hakstol needs to go now. I've seen enough. This guy was supposed to be good for the younger players and it just hasn't worked out. I'm more than a little tired of constant line juggling. They can't gain chemistry if don't play together enough, and yeah his use of timeouts leave something to be desired, as well. They just aren't talented enough, AND they don't have a ship that has a good rudder. Bring in this guy.

 

Image result

Say what you want about the Kings struggles in the last couple of seasons under him, but 2 Stanley Cups are 2 Stanley Cups. It helps also that he had a world class goalie, and we don't yet, but maybe Hart, Lyon or even Stolarz could be that guy waiting in the wings. Maybe we'll finally have a GM and coach who realizes you don't give away a goalie with world-class potential. You hire the right people to tap that potential.

 

If we didn't already have Lombardi, I'd be on board.  I loved the game his teams played but they were all extremely talented vets with a stellar goalie.  We have none of the above.  So I worry about Sutter. 

 

I dont trust them together.  I don't want to be Kings East. 

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28 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

If we didn't already have Lombardi, I'd be on board.  I loved the game his teams played but they were all extremely talented vets with a stellar goalie.  We have none of the above.  So I worry about Sutter. 

 

I dont trust them together.  I don't want to be Kings East. 

Well the North Dakota Fighting Sioux East ain't workin so, if not him then maybe Iron Mike should get a call. If the players don't like their practices now, wait. Plus, we don't really know how good Sutter can be with many young players, since as you correctly pointed out he had a veteran team in LA. I would give him a chance versus the coach we have now anyway, who is in over his head.

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3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Shjon Podein 

 

He's just sitting around fishing and stuff in Minnesota. 

At this point, what the hell, hey see what Trent Klatt is doing. Can it be much worse? Hakstol just isn't working out? As long as it isn't Craig Berube, I'm pretty sure I'd be fine with it.

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@King Knut @hf101

I think you guys both have valid arguments.

 

I was excited about this young group of prospect that Hextall has acquired.  I wanted them on the team ASAP.  I was also excited to get a fresh face coach in the NHL when they hired him a few years ago.

 

As for the coach, yelling at the refs and losing his temper isn't a smart move most of the time.  However, I truly believe there have been times when coaches get calls because refs are afraid of them.  Torts gets calls his way...Ive seen it.

 

My bigger concern with Hak is his system...Im not sure he has one.  Nothing defines the way this team plays.  When Lavi was put in place, you could see what his plan was immediately.  The players responded to it and it got them far.

 

As for the players, I'm not sure.  They can't be talentless bums after all of this hype...could they?  I understand growing pains, but I see missing skill for the most part.  That penalty shot yesterday wasn't because Patrick is young.  Young kids are made for the shootout these days.  They probably spend hours a day as kids fantasizing about it just like basketball players fantasize about hitting a buzzer beater.  That was pathetic though.  When I say I could have done better, i actually mean it in this case.

 

I expected to see growing pains but I also expected to see more skill or more speed.  Gost frustrates me with his mental lapses sometimes, but I see his skill so I'm ok with it.  I've already seen martel's skill in half a game.  Guys like TK, sanheim, or Hagg, or Patrick, I just don't see it for some reason. 

 

I didn't see the game yesterday but I guess Patrick was at the end of a shift when he received the puck for that drive that he was given the penalty shot?  He looked like he was skating in mud.  I saw clips of him later in the game and I don't have any hopes that he will ever beat anyone with speed.

 

Whether it's the coach or players, there's one person we can blame for the way the team is playing, and that's Hextall.  He puts it all together.  He's either failing with the coaching staff, or he's failing with the players on the ice.  There's way more invested in the players on the ice, so I think he has to look at replacing the staff.  These young players could move on to different teams and haunt you forever.  I don't see that happening with the coach.

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One more thing to add.  Has anyone blossomed or gotten better because of Hak?  He hasn't been around long so that might be a little premature, but I haven't seen any progress with any young players to this point.  The players that have shown something have shown something from the beginning.  I don't think they've gotten better under him.

 

Which brings me to my next point.  Was he brought in to be a guy that can develop young talent because he had success with young kids in college?  If that's the case, let's look at the position of a college coach.

 

College hockey is set up more like college basketball than it is college football.  There's more "one and done" players whereas football players do 4 years.

 

So a team that wins championships in college basketball and hockey has a mix of players that have enough skill and talent to be NHL players before they even join the college team (Jonathan toewes and Oshie) and players who can win at the college level but play all 4 years because they're not good enough to play in the NHL.

 

So has Hak "developed" any true talent at the college level?  I just think he was a guy who could coach and game plan for the college game.  NHL is a different game

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10 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

What did you expect him to do?  He could have yelled and screamed at the ref until he got his team a bench minor maybe ??  How would that have helped?

 

 

How is this Hakstol's fault?   Isn't it Hextall who provides a team for Hakstol to coach?   Why aren't we happy with a team full of youth, it's exactly what many of the fans on this site have been crying for years to put on the ice.... homegrown talent.

 

Did you notice that there were times when the oldest player on the ice for the flyers was 24 years old.  Our youth is going through some growing pains as they are making mistakes.   But we the fans again asked for this.  We wanted to see a defense with Hagg, Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, and Ghost.  We wanted to see Nolan Patrick in a Flyer uniform this season.   It is going to take some time to learn how to play a committed disciplined 60 min hockey game.

 

There were other points to this past game that could have changed the game  -- What if Nolan Patrick scored on his penalty shot?  He's supposed to be top notch rookie talent ... right?  but naahh... blame it all on Hakstol.  What if Giroux took that open shot in the third period instead of passing it into Voracek's feet.  Blame that bad decision on Hackstol too.  

 

McDonald will be back next week and he will help settle the defense.  -  I have a feeling the Flyers will start winning again too.

 

 

I could argue this either way. Certainly, I get your "they're very young and inexperienced and it's what you asked for" argument. I do. I think that's quite on point. 

 

But I want to separate that from in game coaching decisions, personnel management and player development. 

 

In game decisions are often overblown. There is only so much you can do in game, or even between periods. But whatever was or wasn't done during second intermission yesterday, for example, was a disaster.  My criticism of him isn't heavy on this so I'll just leave it at that. 

 

Personnel management:  I don't understand his choices of who to play and who to sit. I don't understand his pairings or his lines over the last three years.  I know you work with what you have, but I don't think he's done a good job with even that.  Whether it's seemingly random benchings of players last year or the insistence of not benching players he should have, his player management is a jumbled mess and sends confused messages. 

 

Player development:  The players are better than what they've shown. But no one is developing as they should once they hit the Flyers. They do UNTIL they hit the big club. TK has regressed. Ghost has regressed (he's better than last year but is struggling), Provorov is arguably a sophomore thing but possibly not given the evidence of other players.  Sanheim may not actually be ready, which is again coaching because Morin was better than him in preseason.  Patrick was hurt (get used to saying that), but Hakstol started unnecessarily bouncing him around the lineup before that. 

Brayden Schenn. 

 

I just have no appreciation for his decisions. 

 

In his defense, I think his staff is horrible. I loved Lappy as a player, but what justifies his having a job?  Murphy, same thing.  You have a young, inexperienced head coach and surround him with no one to draw experience from. It's not a good recipe and that falls on Hextall. 

 

I don't think there's any evidence that these players aren't good enough. Your "they're all really young" answers that. It also covers the coach a bit.  The injury to MacDonald and suspension of Gudas hasn't helped (because it removed what little veteran presence we had).  But that doesn't cover what I perceive as significant coaching flaws (some Hakstol, some staff design flaws by Hextall).  Give him the season and then assess. No sense doing it now. 

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8 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Well the North Dakota Fighting Sioux East ain't workin so, if not him then maybe Iron Mike should get a call. If the players don't like their practices now, wait. Plus, we don't really know how good Sutter can be with many young players, since as you correctly pointed out he had a veteran team in LA. I would give him a chance versus the coach we have now anyway, who is in over his head.

Iron Mike would be THE worst choice ever made.  On so many levels. Seriously, can we let the dead horse alone? It's been beaten enough. 

 

I don't have a good answer on a replacement and when you do it at this time of year, choices are very few.  Wait later in  the season or (better) after the season and you may have better choices. 

 

Either way, I think we end up with Knoblauch and the clock starts counting down to our having this same discussion all over again. 

 

 

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More reason to fire him...

 

Dave Isaac‏Verified account @davegisaac5h5 hours ago Seems you need time of service to play past regulation. Flyers haven’t had a rookie do that all season and Dave Hakstol cited Brandon Manning’s veteran status as why he was on the ice in overtime after Provorov and Gostisbehere

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11 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

More reason to fire him...

 

Dave Isaac‏Verified account @davegisaac5h5 hours ago Seems you need time of service to play past regulation. Flyers haven’t had a rookie do that all season and Dave Hakstol cited Brandon Manning’s veteran status as why he was on the ice in overtime after Provorov and Gostisbehere

 

Let's see... record-setting* dynamic offensive talent or a guy who could be a seven on a good team.

 

Yep, go with Manning.

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57 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Sean Couturier says "hello" :cheers:

Couturier was always a good player that had crap for linemates and was stuck primarily in defensive zone assignments. And it wasn't Haktard that put Couturier, Giroux and Voracek together - it was Knoblauch that did that and Haktard ran with it.

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1 hour ago, icehole said:

So has Hak "developed" any true talent at the college level?  I just think he was a guy who could coach and game plan for the college game.  NHL is a different game

 

I think this was a well-argued post.   I actually think you'd be better off with a major-juniors coach, but I wouldn't want that coach to make the jump directly from juniors to NHL.  Take a year in the A.  Then jump.   I think that's what happened with Mike Keenan way back when.  Different era, different sport, but it was not a normal occurrence even back then.

 

But your point about NCAA basketball/hockey vs. football is fairly good, I think.

 

I don't know.  I really do buy @hf101's argument about an absurdly young team, this is what we wanted, what did we expect?  That, to me, would explain inconsistency and even a losing streak.  But, for reasons I already stated in this thread, and some you and others have stated, I just think he's not the guy.

 

I don't fire him now unless I'm willing to go the rest of the year with an interim.  But I think an interim would probably be counter-productive to young players' development.   I just don't think you have many options in terms of a replacement if you did it now.

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As for a head coach to replace Haktard, that's easy. Kevin Dineen in Chicago would be my choice. He put in six years in the AHL with Portland, he spent a few years as the head coach in Florida and is now Joel Quenneville's right hand man in Chicago. He's ready to get another shot. My only hope is that if Hextall fires Hak, he fires Laperriere and Murphy as well. And for those who might mention the Flyer connection with Dineen, He's had nothing to do with Philadelphia for 20 years. The whole Flyers thing is irrelevant.

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