ruxpin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: More reason to fire him... Dave IsaacVerified account @davegisaac5h5 hours ago Seems you need time of service to play past regulation. Flyers haven’t had a rookie do that all season and Dave Hakstol cited Brandon Manning’s veteran status as why he was on the ice in overtime after Provorov and Gostisbehere Yeah, but among the defensemen, who do you have out there instead? You only have one defenseman out there at a time. You've already had Provorov and Ghost out there and need to rotate a third in. Hagg? Not in a situation where you need the ability to get up ice quickly and help quarterback play. I really like Hagg and think he's done well so far. But that's not a good situation to put him in. Morin? Was this what, his second game? Same argument as for Hagg but quite possibly worse. Because you'd leave him to have to judge speed etc and when to bail out of the zone to compensate for his not having any speed. He has zero experience at the NHL level on which to base any assessment of opponent's speed, etc. And his offense, like Hagg's, isn't enough to justify the risk. You'd leave your goalie out to dry. Martel. The experience factor described above would be a handicap. I think he has more offense in him than Hagg or Morin but not enough to justify the risk. That leaves Manning. You're hoping he can buy you some time to spell your other two sufficiently to get them back out there, but in that particular hand dealt, he was probably Hak's best option. Which, I think, should probably indicate why the team is currently struggling even in regulation. You have 5 players with 2 years or less experience (and 3 or 4 with less than one) and it's a matter of time until each has at least one brain fart. Right now, a good percentage of those mistakes is ending up in the net. So, I lean toward accepting HF's argument in general. All that, though, and I'm not sure we have the right coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: My only hope is that if Hextall fires Hak, he fires Laperriere and Murphy as well Yeah. This has to be part of the recipe no matter who the head coach is that they bring in. I guess I'm willing to give Dineen a try. I'm not excited about it, but it's better than my "I don't know." I bet by the end of the year, you could get Coach Q himself if you wanted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Moron should have been used in OT yesterday. He didn't play the final 7:23 of the third and would have had fresh legs. As for the inexperience, they've played hockey most of their lives and they've played 3 on 3 in junior and in the AHL. Eventually these kids are going to have to play in OT. It's inevitable yet Haktard continues to avoid the inevitable. He got burnt earlier in the year when it was Sanheim that coughed up a play that lead to a goal in OT. The man is completely risk adverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Moron should have been used in OT yesterday. He didn't play the final 7:23 of the third and would have had fresh legs. As for the inexperience, they've played hockey most of their lives and they've played 3 on 3 in junior and in the AHL. Eventually these kids are going to have to play in OT. It's inevitable yet Haktard continues to avoid the inevitable. He got burnt earlier in the year when it was Sanheim that coughed up a play that lead to a goal in OT. The man is completely risk adverse. Wait...I thought Hakstol was the Moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 This was to be expected, guys like HF101 said this is what we wanted. We wanted a team full of younglings / rookies. We got it, honestly this losing in the beginning of the season is a blessing in disguise. I rather lose now and win later in the season opposed to having a winning streak now and tanking towards the end of the season. Give it time this team will get itself together, plus look on the bright side if we suck like this for most of the year we will have yet another top 3 pick and plus 2 more 1st round picks from the trades Hexy did with Schenn etc... Three 1st round picks with one being a possible top 3 if we suck like this all year, or the other side of the coin this team will get their crap together and it will eventually click and we start to win more and more as the season progresses, either way we benefit. Whoever thinks this team was going to make some noise this year is sorely mistaken, we are still at the very least 3 to 4 years out from being a legit contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: they've played 3 on 3 in junior and in the AHL. Eventually these kids are going to have to play in OT Yes, but their second game in the NHL is not the time for that. The speed in the NHL is not that of the AHL or juniors. They have NOTHING to base any instinct or angles, judgement of speed or any decision-making of hold the offensive blueline or bail, etc. on. Let them get used to that speed and decision making on 5v5 and then PK, etc. before exposing them to that kind of "he just cost us the game!" that a 3v3 mistake on defense would cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Philly29 said: Whoever thinks this team was going to make some noise this year is sorely mistaken, we are still at the very least 3 to 4 years out from being a legit contender. I don't think it has to be that far out, but I think your comment on this year is dead on. Probably middling next year (just miss or 7th or 8th) and then some noise the year after. Actually, I guess we're close enough that I shouldn't even comment. Because one more year and we're into your window anyway. Gawd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I don't think it has to be that far out, but I think your comment on this year is dead on. Probably middling next year (just miss or 7th or 8th) and then some noise the year after. Actually, I guess we're close enough that I shouldn't even comment. Because one more year and we're into your window anyway. Gawd. I Pray I am wrong on the years but believe it or not it is going to be a fun ride. It doesn't look that way right now, but just wait until these kids start to blossom it is going to be so freaking exciting. Hell most of our young talent isn't on the main roster or even the Phantoms. Let's just enjoy the ride, the smooth and bumby roads, enjoy it all. There is light at the end of this tunnel, and it is in the shape of a Stanley Cup or THREE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: You've already had Provorov and Ghost out there and need to rotate a third in. Doesn't matter because you will have them playing with brain dead Jake who cost you the game because he believes in double covering a guy down low with the puck is more important than covering his guy in open center ice for the score... ...no really!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 11 hours ago, King Knut said: You don't scream, but you let them know they're wrong. Other coaches do it all the time and it gets you make up calls. It works! Weight did it tonight. The Devils coach and that Whiney brat tortorella are brilliant at it. You open a dialogue and you let them know they screwed up and they owe you one. It happens all the time and it works. Theoretically, yes, and for other teams, definitely. But this is the Flyers. Even if they opened that dialogue, I'm convinced they would never, never, ever, never get the makeup call....it's in the League's bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: He didn't play the final 7:23 of the third and would have had fresh legs Good point and that is what also scares me about Hak the way he shortens his bench is crazy. He took Morin out the rotation and it should have been Sanheim he was just lost on what to do and he was the main reason for the tying goal doesn't know how to cover a guy right on top of the crease on his side of the ice. Yet Morin sits. I thought he played well. Sanheim who has provided some puck movement skills is struggling on WTF to do some in his own end. I guess maybe we are just going to have to live through this live fire to teach them. Hak's personnel moves just concerns me most. Like putting Manning out there instead of maybe Sanheim who isn't any better at defense than Travis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, Philly29 said: Let's just enjoy the ride I'm trying!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, RJ8812 said: More reason to fire him... Dave IsaacVerified account @davegisaac5h5 hours ago Seems you need time of service to play past regulation. Flyers haven’t had a rookie do that all season and Dave Hakstol cited Brandon Manning’s veteran status as why he was on the ice in overtime after Provorov and Gostisbehere Yes...this was astutely mentioned in the Flyers vs Isles game thread by @OccamsRazor. Yeah both Rux and I are scratching our collective heads over this one. Frankly I don't buy the veteran status. It's BS. Remember when Ghost was called up and he went on absolutely scoring terror. There were many of OT games that I distinctly remember seeing Ghost on the ice and putting in the game winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Doesn't matter because you will have them playing with brain dead Jake Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, FD19372 said: Wait...I thought Hakstol was the Moron. Yep my bad. In Mexico (Tijuana to be exact) and Wi-Fi here leaves a lot to be desired. Gotta get your stuff out quick it the connection drops. Beautiful city and wonderful people though. I think I'll retire down here when the time is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 hours ago, King Knut said: I DO blame it on Hakstol They are young. That's not why they lost. They had the lead and the momentum. You don't lose momentum in a game your dominating for two periods because of talent. Weight made adjustments. He Flyers had no answer. Patrick should have scored? Did you see how gassed he was ? He could barely get from the dot to the end line. Of course he got beat. Be a decent time to calm a timeout if it really want him to score. St least stalk as much as he can before going... but no. They barely got the ice cleared and there goes the slowest tied 19 Year Old I've ever seen. A COACH sees that and does something. When they get within a goal... if you still have the TO, you call a GD timeout. You rest your guy's. You talk them down you give them a few things to do differently to counter the moves the islanders are making and it gives them confidence when they go back out. This is NHL coaching 101. They've been losing like this the same way since he got here. It's sad. The team is very different aside from the top line and simmer, yet they still lose the same way all the time. Ive tried to defend him. I've gotten down on him and come back to giving him the. We fit of the doubt because I want him to work. But he's just not getting there. He demands certain things of his young players or he benches them. They improved and make fewer of those mistakes. But Hakstol is still Maki g the same mistakes. His time is up. Rookies or not, if they lose based on experience or size thats one thing, but they are straight up getting out coached. And it's happening the same way it did three years ago. So now you are blaming Hak after you claimed how great of a tactician he is/was? I have never been on the Hak train but this is kind of what you should expect from a very young ans mediocre team. If anything I am laying this on Hextall. Hextall is trying to win while rebuilding while constantly stuck in neutral. With that said the Coach is usually the one that gets the short end. If they replaced Hak today I could care less bc he and the coaching staff have really shown me nothing... Lappy must have nudes of Hextall in his safe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: Doesn't matter because you will have them playing with brain dead Jake who cost you the game because he believes in double covering a guy down low with the puck is more important than covering his guy in open center ice for the score... ...no really!!!! 100 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 47 minutes ago, pilldoc said: Yes...this was astutely mentioned in the Flyers vs Isles game thread by @OccamsRazor. Yeah both Rux and I are scratching our collective heads over this one. Frankly I don't buy the veteran status. It's BS. Remember when Ghost was called up and he went on absolutely scoring terror. There were many of OT games that I distinctly remember seeing Ghost on the ice and putting in the game winner. I turned to my son and said the same thing amount manning in OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 The only player that has me worried is Vorachek. He is not playing well at all from what I hear, "I half to go off from what I hear from others beings I do not get to watch a lot of games because of where I live" the past three years we have all been hoping and Praying he would snap out of it and he hasn't. That 8 mil a year for a player who is not earning anywhere near that has me worried that it will hurt this team something bad and keep this team down and not playing up to its full potential, i.e Bryzgalov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, murraycraven said: So now you are blaming Hak after you claimed how great of a tactician he is/was? I have never been on the Hak train but this is kind of what you should expect from a very young ans mediocre team. If anything I am laying this on Hextall. Hextall is trying to win while rebuilding while constantly stuck in neutral. With that said the Coach is usually the one that gets the short end. If they replaced Hak today I could care less bc he and the coaching staff have really shown me nothing... Lappy must have nudes of Hextall in his safe... I blame this on ownership. Hextall was given the unenviable task of rebuilding on the fly while staying competitive and dealing with a bloated payroll and no pipeline of prospects. If the ownership would have given him the rubber stamp to blow it up, I think the team is much different and better than what it is. I also don't think we even see Hakstol behind the bench. Now that pipeline is full and ready to burst through, its time for party two if the rebuild to commence and that's finding a coach who will maximize this talent that's available. I wanted to like Hakstol, but he lost me when he had the chance to replace Murphy and Laperriere and he decided to keep them because he wanted 'continuity'. You don't keep guys because of continuity, you keep guys that give you the best chance to win and implement your game plan. Hakstol chose to play it safe, a recurring theme behind his coaching style - play it safe and risk taking is minimal. The problem is that guys are stagnating in his system and he refuses to change his system to fit the personnel here. For me, that's the sign of a coach in over his head. That's why Hakstol has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hey guys. I get the whole fire the coach rant. I'm pissed too. I was there just last night. But i have had time to cool off and think about things. But now just isn't the time to fire him. They are only 4 points outside the playoffs with a lot of hockey left to be played. So all they need right now is a spark and that can come in the form of a win. That is what it takes to get them out his funk. Win cures a lot. Just like last year the 10 game winning streak doesn't mean anything towards the rest of the season so should the losing streak be viewed. But i look at this roster and they have the talent to win in this league right now. They just have to play smart hockey for a full game. And that requires everyone! They do that and they will turn this around. Sorry if folks hate me for being the optimist.......can't help it....it is how i look at things. However i am still human and get pissed like everyone else that they ain't winning. But there are 59 games left to be played more than enough to turn it around. It can be done no better time than now. Anyways that is my .02 cents for the day off to the gym. I check back to see what kind of response this draws! Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Hey guys. I get the whole fire the coach rant. I'm pissed too. I was there just last night. But i have had time to cool off and think about things. But now just isn't the time to fire him. They are only 4 points outside the playoffs with a lot of hockey left to be played. So all they need right now is a spark and that can come in the form of a win. That is what it takes to get them out his funk. Win cures a lot. Just like last year the 10 game winning streak doesn't mean anything towards the rest of the season so should the losing streak be viewed. But i look at this roster and they have the talent to win in this league right now. They just have to play smart hockey for a full game. And that requires everyone! They do that and they will turn this around. Sorry if folks hate me for being the optimist.......can't help it....it is how i look at things. However i am still human and get pissed like everyone else that they ain't winning. But there are 59 games left to be played more than enough to turn it around. It can be done no better time than now. Anyways that is my .02 cents for the day off to the gym. I check back to see what kind of response this draws! Peace! Spoken (written) by someone who remembers Eagles fans (yours truly included) who wanted Doug Pederson fired by the 3rd week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I blame this on ownership. Hextall was given the unenviable task of rebuilding on the fly while staying competitive and dealing with a bloated payroll and no pipeline of prospects. If the ownership would have given him the rubber stamp to blow it up, I think the team is much different and better than what it is. I also don't think we even see Hakstol behind the bench. Now that pipeline is full and ready to burst through, its time for party two if the rebuild to commence and that's finding a coach who will maximize this talent that's available. I wanted to like Hakstol, but he lost me when he had the chance to replace Murphy and Laperriere and he decided to keep them because he wanted 'continuity'. You don't keep guys because of continuity, you keep guys that give you the best chance to win and implement your game plan. Hakstol chose to play it safe, a recurring theme behind his coaching style - play it safe and risk taking is minimal. The problem is that guys are stagnating in his system and he refuses to change his system to fit the personnel here. For me, that's the sign of a coach in over his head. That's why Hakstol has to go. The problem is you can't "blow it up" when you sign so many players to inflated, ridiculous contracts that no other teams want to burden themselves with. That, and the fact that the asking price in return isn't palatable to these teams. Ownership aka Club Med Philadelphia overrated and oversecured their players with these contracts. Now they have to live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I blame this on ownership. Hextall was given the unenviable task of rebuilding on the fly while staying competitive and dealing with a bloated payroll and no pipeline of prospects. If the ownership would have given him the rubber stamp to blow it up, I think the team is much different and better than what it is. I also don't think we even see Hakstol behind the bench. Now that pipeline is full and ready to burst through, its time for party two if the rebuild to commence and that's finding a coach who will maximize this talent that's available. I wanted to like Hakstol, but he lost me when he had the chance to replace Murphy and Laperriere and he decided to keep them because he wanted 'continuity'. You don't keep guys because of continuity, you keep guys that give you the best chance to win and implement your game plan. Hakstol chose to play it safe, a recurring theme behind his coaching style - play it safe and risk taking is minimal. The problem is that guys are stagnating in his system and he refuses to change his system to fit the personnel here. For me, that's the sign of a coach in over his head. That's why Hakstol has to go. You penned my exact sentiment about this whole thing. Great post IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 1 hour ago, ruxpin said: Spoken (written) by someone who remembers Eagles fans (yours truly included) who wanted Doug Pederson fired by the 3rd week. And to piggyback with that. If i was to give the nod to diring him i can't say right now who i would want to take over for him the rest of the season. I would have to think on that for a minute. I would want to have someone in mind before taking that step. And as you already said. The first thing that comes to mind would be seeing what Knoblauck could do the rest of the year. But right now i want to give faith to the players and coaches that they can fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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