Voracek Taking Over

[OccamsRazor]

27 minutes ago, radoran said:

And then got concussed.

 

And at that point was the perfect time to make the call he hadn't played his 10th was concussed and the previous 9 games as you said didn't alarming say to me that "Yes this kid is ready let's keep him up he can't get better with another full year of junior" then when he was healthy i would of sent him back and then his ELC slides and will look at him again next camp/preseason.

 

That is what i would have done.

 

And i really really hope you're wrong about what you say about as soon as they won the #2 pick they penciled him in.

 

However i can't in fact sadly you're right.

 

Which would go against what Hextall said he would do.

 

#timewilltellnow

[brelic]

11 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

And at that point was the perfect time to make the call he hadn't played his 10th was concussed and the previous 9 games as you said didn't alarming say to me that "Yes this kid is ready let's keep him up he can't get better with another full year of junior" then when he was healthy i would of sent him back and then his ELC slides and will look at him again next camp/preseason.

 

That is what i would have done.

 

And i really really hope you're wrong about what you say about as soon as they won the #2 pick they penciled him in.

 

However i can't in fact sadly you're right.

 

Which would go against what Hextall said he would do.

 

#timewilltellnow

 

He played another 8 minutes last night. Anyone watch? What did his line look like?

 

He doesn't look ready for the NHL but nothing the Flyers can do about it now unless they're willing to just send him back anyway and burn a year. That would probably be best for his development.

 

Or get him off the line with TK and Weise. 

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, brelic said:

He played another 8 minutes last night.

 

 

I have no clue what their plan is with him. I was at work and the game on gamecenter kept pauses for no reason drove me crazy so i only seen 6 minutes of the 1st.

[OccamsRazor]

31 minutes ago, brelic said:

What did his line look like?

 

 

Looks like he got rough up a little.

 

 

[elmatus]

22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Looks like he got rough up a little.

 

 

 

Welcome to the NHL.

 

Hopefully he finds ways to balance productivity with protecting himself a bit better. I think he will, and I think his game will inevitably become much better as a result.

 

This to me is exactly the sort of little stuff players like Patrick can only learn in the pros, and it's why I completely believe he should be playing at this level now, not showing off dominance in juniors. The real elite players learn and evolve their game. He needs to show he can do just that. Once he figures it out, we'll get to see what he's truly capable of.

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

What?

 

How can you even say that?

 

Could of had Patrick as a 22 old on the last year of his deal.

 

Because with. Misdiagnosed hernia he was dominant in his time last year. 

 

And because use of the way he was dominant (using his size toniut uscke boys) which won't help him in the NHL.  

 

Also, he was MISDIAGNOSED by their doctors.  Want him going through that again?  

 

Im not sure I give a rip about his ELC.  It's. It like he'll be gettin 12 million per like McDavid on his next contract.   

 

Sending him back just delays everything in his development by at least a year.  

 

I'm the one who should want him in juniors becaue I think Vecchione should be with the Flyers now.  But why do you care?   What was the alternative?  All Lehtera All the time?

[mojo1917]

14 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

could not agree more...   

 

and it goes back to what I said earlier to Brel -- I am sorry but these kids getting limited minutes and being benched in the 3rd is doing SQUAT for their development.    

 

If the bench is this short in February....I can get behind this line of thought.

Right now though, seeing how those young guys haven't really performed well in winning time maybe watching from up close will help long term. 

Quick story, when I was breaking into my profession, I had to sit beside my mentor and watch him work, and assist on the chyron,  for what seemed like a long ass time. It felt like a long ass time because I had been "doing" the work for 4 years already prior to getting my first job.   However, when my turn in the edit chair came, I knew what to do because I had seen it done, up close. 

Can we not think about these young guys in a similar fashion. 

I know they've been playing hockey for 14 or whatever years. but they haven't been playing NHL hockey.  If Koneckny still doesnt' see ice in the 3rd period in late January...fine, you have a point, Right now, I can't say benching inexperienced players in crunch time when they've stepped on their cranks previously is hurting their development.

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, radoran said:

 

No, I'm looking at arguably the worst first round forward pick of the Flyers in the past 30 years.

 

Laughton is "on pace" for 24 whopping points. That's not a "two way" game. That's a defensive forward who chips in a point every fourth game or so. Whoopee. Let's have him out with Lehtera and Raffl for extended periods(?) I suppose that's a step up from PEB and VDV, but it's not a big step...

 

And your description of Patrick is exactly why he deserved to go back and have a full season in Juniors. I'm not saying he's a "bust" at this point - that's ridiculous - just that he's "learning" in the NHL as a second line center at 19, who missed half of last year in Juniors and had off season surgery. And then got concussed. That's just not great for your "development" (see: Laughton, Scott).

 

Honestly, I didn't see anything in his game that said he "had" to make the team. It's just that when they traded Schenn, they boxed themselves into a corner.

 

YMMV, which is fair.

 

Darren Rumble, Claude Boivin, Ryan Sittler, Jeff Woywitka, and Steve Downie  all say hello.  And I only don't include Luca Sbisa in this list because I believe he was an incredibly talented player that got totally screwed over by circumstances which I'll get back to later.

 

No.  Laughton isn't an amazing player.  

But YES, he has turned himself into a very effective 4th liner.  He's 23. You want something different out of your first round pick, but let's not pretend he's bad at what he's managed to make himself good at.  

 

If Laughton had half the talent with his stick or some of the 20lbs that Patrick has over him, he'd be the Flyers top line center right now.  

If, in 2 years Patrick will have learned to play Center the way Laughton has, we will all be very happy with him.

 

In the mean time, overpowering 16 and 17 year olds with your "massive" 175lb frame isn't much training for how to win puck battles at the NHL level.   If he could be in the AHL right now, he would.  As it happens, it's either juniors or the Flyers (who, btw don't have to play him every night and may have found a good work around in limiting his minutes in the third while leading -although I think they can limit those minutes to a few more than zero.

 

Now, to further make my point, back to Luca Sbisa?  Remember him?  Sending him back to juniors did wonders for what was then regarded as the Flyers best prospect since Gagne.   When he started with the Flyers, the vets couldn't keep up with him.  When he came back, he couldn't keep up with anyone.  Injuries and rumors of drastic weight loss may have played a part. 

 

As far as patrick goes, would you really prefer 82 games of Lehtera instead?

 

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, radoran said:

 

What I'm saying is when they traded Schenn, Patrick was a lock for the team. Period. The decision was made regardless of his "development". (And I'm pretty confident that they were "shopping" Schenn as soon as the ping pong ball left them at #2).

 

Unless you have some insider information I'm not privvy to, I'm not certain I agree.  Knowing Hextall and the way he's handled these kids, I think he may have relished in the opportunity to leave Patrick in Juniors for a year.  Although I think Hextall may have sent the Flyers doctors for regular house calls after the way his junior team screwed up his injuries.

 

I agree that his existence made the trade more feasible, and I think Schenn was always the odd man out in that lineup.  But I'm far more apt to believe that while I'm sure Hextall saw the ping pong ball and realized he coudl make a deal, my guess is he would have preferred to bide his time and make it any time over the next 12 months or so.   Someone offers you two first round picks for a guy... very nearly any guy... you have to listen.  

 

Now i will agree that once the deal was on the table, that all but ensured Patrick was making the flyers (but probably not the other way around IMHO).  But again, this was almost definitely because he could not go to the AHL.  If Patrick was AHL eligible, it's my belief that Vecchione would be a Flyer right now.  

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, radoran said:

 

So, you're saying he's not good enough to be playing as a #2 center in the NHL at 19?

 

We agree!

 

I don't at all agree he had "nothing left to learn" in Juniors. Playing a full Junior season is a Good Thing to learn, especially when making the jump to playing 82 games.

 

I suppose we do agree on that point.  

 

And he had played a full season in juniors at 17 and was dominant already.  He likely would have been a top ten draft pick in 2016 if he'd been a few months older. 

 

Again... the thing with Patrick right now is he has to figure out how to skate with more talented skaters and muscle with stronger, bigger guys.    Those are the two biggest flaws to his NHL game and neither of them improving if the 19 year old goes back to play against 16 and 17 year olds again.  Full season or not.  

 

It's the problem with the arrangement with Junior hockey.  I think there should be wiggle room, but the Juniors have the NHL by the balls a bit because there's no better proving ground for young talent.  

[flyercanuck]

28 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

 

 

 

In the mean time, overpowering 16 and 17 year olds with your "massive" 175lb frame isn't much training for how to win puck battles at the NHL level.   If he could be in the AHL right now, he would.  As it happens, it's either juniors or the Flyers (who, btw don't have to play him every night and may have found a good work around in limiting his minutes in the third while leading -although I think they can limit those minutes to a few more than zero.

 

Now, to further make my point, back to Luca Sbisa?  Remember him?  Sending him back to juniors did wonders for what was then regarded as the Flyers best prospect since Gagne.   When he started with the Flyers, the vets couldn't keep up with him.  When he came back, he couldn't keep up with anyone.  Injuries and rumors of drastic weight loss may have played a part. 

 

 

 

 

I've never heard any NHL player, coach or gm say that sending a kid back to junior hurt them...ever. And from what I've seen of Patrick I don't think it would  be a bad move for him.

 

 It's not like he'd be playing against all 16 and 17 year olds. First of all there are very few 16 year year olds. It's like saying the NHL is full of 18 year olds. Barrie, who I believe is the youngest team in the OHL has ONE 16 year old on the team...he was the first overall pick in the draft last year. We have a 17 year old who is 6'6" 232 lbs and likely a 1st or 2nd round pick in the upcoming NHL draft...want to try overpowering him? You always bring up Sbisa when this discussion comes up, and maybe he is the guy who's development was hindered....maybe. But there are hundreds, if not thousands of NHL players who have benefited from going back to junior, or the AHL. 

 

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, flyercanuck said:

I've never heard any NHL player, coach or gm say that sending a kid back to junior hurt them...ever. And from what I've seen of Patrick I don't think it would  be a bad move for him.

 

 It's not like he'd be playing against all 16 and 17 year olds. First of all there are very few 16 year year olds. It's like saying the NHL is full of 18 year olds. Barrie, who I believe is the youngest team in the OHL has ONE 16 year old on the team...he was the first overall pick in the draft last year. We have a 17 year old who is 6'6" 232 lbs and likely a 1st or 2nd round pick in the upcoming NHL draft...want to try overpowering him? You always bring up Sbisa when this discussion comes up, and maybe he is the guy who's development was hindered....maybe. But there are hundreds, if not thousands of NHL players who have benefited from going back to junior, or the AHL. 

 

 

I just don't see it helping the Flyers get any better any faster.

I don't think they'd be any better for nothing having him around because Hextall and Hakstol would be playing Lehtera as 3C now.  

 

Even if playing in the OHL doesn't hurt him, it's not going to help him learn the NHL game any faster (which is the actual problem).  It's not that he can't play hockey.  It's that he's not fast enough or big enough (yet) to use the style he used in juniors at this level, so he has to work on skating better (doable) and maybe putting on some weight (also doable). 

 

When I look at the entire picture of the Flyers and their roster... I just don't see how sending him back actually improves... anything really.

 

What would sending him back have accomplished exactly?  

 

As a side note, can you even send an injured player back to juniors?

 

[flyercanuck]

24 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I just don't see it helping the Flyers get any better any faster.

I don't think they'd be any better for nothing having him around because Hextall and Hakstol would be playing Lehtera as 3C now.  

 

Even if playing in the OHL doesn't hurt him, it's not going to help him learn the NHL game any faster (which is the actual problem).  It's not that he can't play hockey.  It's that he's not fast enough or big enough (yet) to use the style he used in juniors at this level, so he has to work on skating better (doable) and maybe putting on some weight (also doable). 

 

When I look at the entire picture of the Flyers and their roster... I just don't see how sending him back actually improves... anything really.

 

What would sending him back have accomplished exactly?  

 

As a side note, can you even send an injured player back to juniors?

 

 

As our 2nd overall pick, I'm really not concerned how this helps the Flyers...I'm concerned more about Patricks development. Playing 8 minutes a game in the NHL doesn't seem to be fast tracking his evolution.

 

 He'd likely also get to play on Canadas WJ team, which is generally considered to be a pretty good experience. I think lending him there could be a good move..then bring him back to the Flyers and see if his game has improved. If not, send him down to Brandon for the rest of the season.

 

 

[brelic]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I just don't see it helping the Flyers get any better any faster.

I don't think they'd be any better for nothing having him around because Hextall and Hakstol would be playing Lehtera as 3C now.  

 

Even if playing in the OHL doesn't hurt him, it's not going to help him learn the NHL game any faster (which is the actual problem).  It's not that he can't play hockey.  It's that he's not fast enough or big enough (yet) to use the style he used in juniors at this level, so he has to work on skating better (doable) and maybe putting on some weight (also doable). 

 

When I look at the entire picture of the Flyers and their roster... I just don't see how sending him back actually improves... anything really.

 

What would sending him back have accomplished exactly?  

 

As a side note, can you even send an injured player back to juniors?

 

 

Do you think Provorov was harmed by being sent back to juniors? Or, if not harmed, do you think it was a wasted year for him?

 

And keep in mind that Provorov likely has a higher ceiling for his position than Patrick, if the scouting reports are to be believed.

 

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Do you think Provorov was harmed by being sent back to juniors? Or, if not harmed, do you think it was a wasted year for him?

 

And keep in mind that Provorov likely has a higher ceiling for his position than Patrick, if the scouting reports are to be believed.

 

 

Patrick has already spent more time in Juniors than Provorov did.  

[King Knut]

55 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

As our 2nd overall pick, I'm really not concerned how this helps the Flyers...I'm concerned more about Patricks development. Playing 8 minutes a game in the NHL doesn't seem to be fast tracking his evolution.

 

 He'd likely also get to play on Canadas WJ team, which is generally considered to be a pretty good experience. I think lending him there could be a good move..then bring him back to the Flyers and see if his game has improved. If not, send him down to Brandon for the rest of the season.

 

 

 

I'd rather see him getting 16 minutes a night in the AHL, but since that's not feasible, IMHO yes.  8-10 minutes a night (including PP time) in the NHL is going to benefit him more than 20 minutes a night in Juniors will right now.  He'll be more prepared to play 14-18 minutes a night next season.  If he spent the rest of this year in juniors, he'd be coming to the Flyers just about exactly where he is now and they'd probably have to send him to the AHL for at least half a season.  They may have to do that anyway, but this way, there's a shot he's learning a bit on the fly.  At the very least he will not be surprised by the size and speed of the game at this level.  

 

Clearly we don't agree.  Not sure what it matters.  He's here and he's not going anywhere. 

It's not an ideal situation by any stretch of the imagination.  But it is what it is.

 

You might as well try to see the bright side.  

[radoran]

@King Knut

 

SHOULD have said 20 years - and several of this guy's you mention are defencemen..

 

As for Downie, call me when Laughton pots 20...

[brelic]

12 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Patrick has already spent more time in Juniors than Provorov did.  

 

Sure, but it doesn't mean he has learned everything he needed to learn.

 

Provorov went back after his draft year, and it didn't seem to hurt him. Patrick could have done the same. Every player is different - it's clear Hischier was NHL-ready. Patrick doesn't look like he is right now. He still has time to grow this year, and we'll never know what effect another year in junior would have had, but I don't think you'd find any GM saying a player's development was harmed by being sent back.'

 

EDIT: I agree that some players don't need that extra year. Some do. I just feel like it short-sighted to believe that spending an extra year in juniors would not help in his development. This is a guy we hope plays for the Flyers well into his 30s as a top line center. Whether he enters the league at 20 or 21 is totally dependent upon his own development path.

 

As an example, TK may very well have benefited more from being sent back. And we've all debated Couturier's situation too.

 

[King Knut]

35 minutes ago, radoran said:

@King Knut

 

SHOULD have said 20 years - and several of this guy's you mention are defencemen..

 

As for Downie, call me when Laughton pots 20...

 

Laughton may be the worst 1st round pick in a long time, but that doesn't make him a complete bust. 

Lots of worse players have panned out more poorly and well above 20th overall.

 

And you can take Downie on your team and I'll take Laughton.  We'll see how things go.  

[King Knut]

37 minutes ago, brelic said:

EDIT: I agree that some players don't need that extra year. Some do. I just feel like it short-sighted to believe that spending an extra year in juniors would not help in his development. This is a guy we hope plays for the Flyers well into his 30s as a top line center. Whether he enters the league at 20 or 21 is totally dependent upon his own development path.

 

As an example, TK may very well have benefited more from being sent back. And we've all debated Couturier's situation too.

 

TK I can see.  HOWEVER... in that situation, he simply outplayed the alternatives from the veteran pool in camp last season.  That was obvious.  He had his ups and downs through the year... so what's the problem this year?  IMHO it's that he's playing with Patrick, Lehtera, & Weise.    Likewise, I think if Patrick were playing with Voracek and Simmonds or Giroux or even Filppula, I think we'd be looking at a different situation and assessment entirely.  

 

No no one ever said that Patrick was going to be a Crosby or McDavid type talent.  BUT even so, the thing to keep in mind about guys like Crosby, McDavid and even Matthews is that their teams put them with the best guys they had immediately.  That helps speed up their development too.  Those teams all had the tank going for many many years and thanks to that and idiots like Homer sending them skilled players, those top picks stepped into pretty experienced and skilled line mate situations.  

 

Patrick has Lehtera, Weise and Konecny.  

 

I'm not saying they should do this now because it would hurt the team... but I am saying that if the season ever realistically looks out of reach, they absolutely should put him with Giroux, Voracek or Simmonds immediately and take advantage of the remaining time to really accelerate his learning curve.  

 

I know I'm in the minority here, but there hasn't been a moment since they committed to him that I've questioned the decision not to send Couturier back and the team has seemed to agree with me throughout (3 coaches, 2 GMs).  He's been an absolute machine for this team and the fact that he wasn't Crosby or McDavid notwithstanding, the team has never doubted his value.  It's only been fans on the internet who have debated it.  

[brelic]

21 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

No no one ever said that Patrick was going to be a Crosby or McDavid type talent.  BUT even so, the thing to keep in mind about guys like Crosby, McDavid and even Matthews is that their teams put them with the best guys they had immediately.  That helps speed up their development too.  Those teams all had the tank going for many many years and thanks to that and idiots like Homer sending them skilled players, those top picks stepped into pretty experienced and skilled line mate situations.  

 

Yes they did, because Crosby, McDavid and Matthews WERE the best guys on the team. Period. They made the other players around them BETTER, not the other way around. Of course, it certainly helped that they had competent linemates, but they were already the best players on the team. 

 

Not the case at all with Patrick.

 

Quote

I'm not saying they should do this now because it would hurt the team... but I am saying that if the season ever realistically looks out of reach, they absolutely should put him with Giroux, Voracek or Simmonds immediately and take advantage of the remaining time to really accelerate his learning curve.  

 

This further makes the point. You're saying if you put Patrick with better players, it would hurt the team. That says a lot about where he is in his development. 

 

The kid will probably be a solid top 6 player in this league for a decade, maybe even a true #1, but he's not even close to that right now. And that's ok - the only debate we're really having is whether or not he is/was NHL-ready this season. Early on, he certainly looked like he belonged. But so did TK, Weal, and all the young guys.

 

Now that the 'real' season is underway and in full-on grind mode, all those young guys are disappearing. Again, it's not a surprise or cause for concern, just the reality of their inexperience and where they are in their development.

 

But they're here now, so maybe they have a chance at turning it around over the next 55+ games or so.

 

Totally agree that Patrick needs better linemates - and so does TK. And Sanheim for that matter!

 

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yes they did, because Crosby, McDavid and Matthews WERE the best guys on the team. Period. They made the other players around them BETTER, not the other way around. Of course, it certainly helped that they had competent linemates, but they were already the best players on the team. 

 

 

To a degree, yes, BUT the actual point I was making that seemed to elude you is that these guys had their transition to the NHL (which always happens regardless of the immaculate conception level of the talent) eased by their teams because their teams said, Screw it.  This is our guy and we're all in on him.   Imagine if Patrick didn't have to worry about back checking or playing defense and if Hextall said, Meh... you'll figure it out eventually.   And then they stuck him in between Jake and Giroux instead of Coots?  Do you really think we'd be talking about Patrick the same way?

 

17 minutes ago, brelic said:

Not the case at all with Patrick.

 

 

No.  Because he's simply not that player.  Is that what we're arguing now because NO ONE HAS EVER ARGUED THAT.

 

17 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

This further makes the point. You're saying if you put Patrick with better players, it would hurt the team. That says a lot about where he is in his development. 

 

 

We don't disagree about where he is in his development at all.  At least I don't think we do.  What we disagree about is what the best path to getting him to being that top 6 forward in this league that you mention fastest.  I think what they're doing is fine and is probably the fastest track available to making him a competent 16 minute top 6 guy.  You don't. 

 

Turns out it doesn't matter though, because we'll never be able to try out your way.  

 

 

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

To a degree, yes, BUT the actual point I was making that seemed to elude you is that these guys had their transition to the NHL (which always happens regardless of the immaculate conception level of the talent) eased by their teams because their teams said, Screw it.  This is our guy and we're all in on him.   Imagine if Patrick didn't have to worry about back checking or playing defense and if Hextall said, Meh... you'll figure it out eventually.   And then they stuck him in between Jake and Giroux instead of Coots?  Do you really think we'd be talking about Patrick the same way?

 

 

 

It didn't elude me at all - I don't even think we're saying different things. 

 

Matthews, McDavid, and Crosby were hands down the best players on their teams (or proved it in short order - 4 goals on opening night will do that). They proved they belonged in the top role, and it made sense to put the best linemates with them to flank them with veterans.

 

As an interesting side note, Matthews played his rookie season with Connor Brown, who had all of 7 games of NHL experience (i.e. a rookie), and Zach Hyman, who had 16 games of NHL experience (i.e. another rookie). I didn't follow the Leafs to see how the lines evolved over the season, so I don't know who he played with later. I seem to recall Nylander for sure, and Marner? Anyway, it demonstrates the talent level of Matthews to lift all boats (and his linemates even credited him for elevating their games).

 

Patrick is not at the level where he should be on the top line - you even said yourself that it would hurt the team. And he's not able to elevate his linemates - yet. So he's not the best choice for that role at this point in time. 

 

They tried Simmonds with him for a while, and it worked well early in the season, but then injuries happened. Simmonds got stuck in neutral, and Patrick got stuck with TK and Weal/Weise/Lehtera. So at this point, I wish Hakstol would try flanking Patrick with someone like Voracek or Filppula. Get him un-stuck.

 

I saw someone on another forum pitch Simmonds on the 4th line, and you know... that doesn't sound so crazy.

 

G/Coots/TK

Raffl/Patrick/Voracek

Weal/Filppula/Weise

Leier/Laughton/Simmonds

 

Raffl is one of the best possession play-drivers on the team, and Voracek is an assist dispenser. Might work.

 

 

Quote

No.  Because he's simply not that player.  Is that what we're arguing now because NO ONE HAS EVER ARGUED THAT.

 

No we're not arguing that at all. Because he's not that player, it's fair to question whether or not he was NHL-ready., regardless of his draft position. 

 

Quote

 

We don't disagree about where he is in his development at all.  At least I don't think we do.  What we disagree about is what the best path to getting him to being that top 6 forward in this league that you mention fastest.  I think what they're doing is fine and is probably the fastest track available to making him a competent 16 minute top 6 guy.  You don't. 

 

Turns out it doesn't matter though, because we'll never be able to try out your way.  

 

 

Hey, it's not my way! Lol, I am not a coach, and all of us second-guessing armchair GMs and coaches on here are just having some fun back and forth. I would probably enjoy coaching the Flyers as much as gouging out my own eyes, because that's what fans would do to me after Game 1.

 

 

[Lunatic]

6 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Because with. Misdiagnosed hernia he was dominant in his time last year. 

 

And because use of the way he was dominant (using his size toniut uscke boys) which won't help him in the NHL.  

 

Also, he was MISDIAGNOSED by their doctors.  Want him going through that again?  

 

Im not sure I give a rip about his ELC.  It's. It like he'll be gettin 12 million per like McDavid on his next contract.   

 

Sending him back just delays everything in his development by at least a year.  

 

I'm the one who should want him in juniors becaue I think Vecchione should be with the Flyers now.  But why do you care?   What was the alternative?  All Lehtera All the time?

A very good reason to keep him, is to not send him back to the quacks at Brandon. No excuse for their misdiagnosis!

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, King Knut said:

No.  Laughton isn't an amazing player.

 

Let's just blame him on Homer he was pick!!!

 

 

I'm good with that.

 

However if you look at the 2012 draft after his selection no one has really done a whole lot...just saying!

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html