Voracek Taking Over

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Let's just blame him on Homer he was pick!!!

 

 

I'm good with that.

 

However if you look at the 2012 draft after his selection no one has really done a whole lot...just saying!

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

 

Forseberh and  Galchenyuk and maybe now Wilson (though he'll, stick Laughton with OV and see what happens) stand out above him. Vasilevsky after him.  

 

If thw worst you gwt get out of a first rounder is an everyday player capable of 15 minutes plus, playing the PK and driving play, then you haven't done poorly.   You could do a lot worse.  

[OccamsRazor]

22 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Forseberh and Galchenyuk and maybe now Wilson (though he'll, stick Laughton with OV and see what happens) stand out above him. Vasilevsky after him.  

 

If thw worst you gwt get out of a first rounder is an everyday player capable of 15 minutes plus, playing the PK and driving play, then you haven't done poorly.   You could do a lot worse.  

 

 

I got what you're saying but it isn't fair to count players they didn't have a chance at.

 

At least it was what i was getting at.

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I got what you're saying but it isn't fair to count players they didn't have a chance at.

 

At least it was what i was getting at.

 

Oh I didn't mean it in a bad way.  I meant that even in the 19 players taken above him, there are only a few stand outs.  

 

Which is i believe not atypical for any draft.  

[radoran]

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Laughton may be the worst 1st round pick in a long time, but that doesn't make him a complete bust. 

Lots of worse players have panned out more poorly and well above 20th overall.

 

And you can take Downie on your team and I'll take Laughton.  We'll see how things go.  

 

I never liked and never wanted Downie.

 

But I had Many posters on here talking him up at the time - with caveats.

 

Laughton isn't a complete bust. He's just not much special.

 

And what got me on the topic in the first place was the thought that his line outworked others on the team and "deserved" more time.

 

Well, fine, but if Laughton and his crew are out working some if your top 12 that's NOT a "good thing".

[King Knut]

12 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I never liked and never wanted Downie.

 

But I had Many posters on here talking him up at the time - with caveats.

 

Laughton isn't a complete bust. He's just not much special.

 

And what got me on the topic in the first place was the thought that his line outworked others on the team and "deserved" more time.

 

Well, fine, but if Laughton and his crew are out working some if your top 12 that's NOT a "good thing".

 

Well until Weise and Lehtera are gone I'm not sure there's much hope of the skill of 7-9 outmatching the work ethic of 10-12. 

 

As Konex, Patrick, Lindblom, Vecchione, maybe Martel and eventually Rubstov, Frost, Strohme, Radcliffe eat al develop, im fairly certain that 5-9 will look a lot better.  

 

I just worry a little about what will happen to 1-4 in the mean time.  

 

[King Knut]

12 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I never liked and never wanted Downie.

 

But I had Many posters on here talking him up at the time - with caveats.

 

Laughton isn't a complete bust. He's just not much special.

 

And what got me on the topic in the first place was the thought that his line outworked others on the team and "deserved" more time.

 

Well, fine, but if Laughton and his crew are out working some if your top 12 that's NOT a "good thing".

 

Mph and Downie... he was a gamble.  If he's have been able to focus a bit and execute his role, he could have been a worthwhile pick.   Instead he was the "hot box" prick on the bus too much and not the first rounder on the ice enough.  

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Well until Weise and Lehtera are gone I'm not sure there's much hope of the skill of 7-9 outmatching the work ethic of 10-12. 

 

As Konex, Patrick, Lindblom, Vecchione, maybe Martel and eventually Rubstov, Frost, Strohme, Radcliffe eat al develop, im fairly certain that 5-9 will look a lot better.  

 

I just worry a little about what will happen to 1-4 in the mean time.  

 

 

Hopefully, within 3 years, Patrick becomes a 60+ pt #1/2 center, Frost could be a 40-50 point #3, and both move up a line when Giroux starts to decline below that. Frost might even surpass Patrick. Even when Giroux can no longer produce at a #1 level, I think he's going to be an extremely valuable #3 center who can provide stellar offense, defense, and leadership. 

 

What are we going to do with all our other centers? Lol. Vecchione, Vorobyov, Rubtsov. 

 

Convert them to wingers, of course!

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

What are we going to do with all our other centers? Lol. Vecchione, Vorobyov, Rubtsov. 

 

Convert them to wingers, of course!

 

I worry about this a little. 

 

Mostly I worry that some guys aren't going to get good opportunities to develop properly and we could leave decent assets to wallow in the AHL. 

 

The other half of that equation is that Filppula's contract is up this year and Laughton (while still RFA) is only under contract for one more year.  I really like Vecchione and I feel like even though he's already older than Laughton now, it's really important to let him get some NHL ice time as he SHOULD either be the 4C of the future or a moderately valuable trade chip.  However, like Jordan Weal before him (whom some of us may have heard Riley Cote admit was kept in the AHL so long for "political" reasons... whatever that means) I fear that Vex won't get the NHL minutes to prove that be belongs or prove himself to have actual value in a trade.   

 

Vecchione strikes me as the kind of player that the Flyers could discard and who could end up being a major player on some other cup winner down the road and everyone will say, "where has this guy been all this time?!?!"  And I don't mean he's going to score a ton of goals, I mean he'll be the kind of really solid player who revs it up in the playoffs, can shut down the opposition's best forwards and chip in a key goal or two here and there.  Basically the meat and potatoes kind of good player that wins cups by playing a ton of really strong minutes when your superstars either get swallowed up by defenses or injured.

 

Frost seems to be tearing it up right now.  The scuttlebutt on him and why Hextall moved up to get him supposedly was his vision and hockey sense.  He really seemed to impress at the prospect camp in this way as well.  He's a really smooth puck mover who can score goals as well and makes things look easy with his vision and smarts.  I think he stays at Center most likely for these reasons.  Right now it seems that if he works out, He's the 2C or 3C of the future depending on what happens with Couturier and Patrick.

 

Folks were really high on Rubstov, and he did well in juniors last year (22 pts in 16 games) but he's been hurt so it's difficult to judge... he's got 22 points in 21 games now.

 

Vorobyov is an obvious candidate to move to wing, but he and LIndblom both really seem to be struggling with the North American game a bit right now.  Not sure where that leaves things because I thought Lindblom actually looked fairly decent in preseason.   

 

Strohm and Radcliffe if they come along are already wings I believe.  

 

I'm happy to trade any and all of these guys, but I hope we can get some actual value for them.

 

 

 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I worry about this a little. 

 

Mostly I worry that some guys aren't going to get good opportunities to develop properly and we could leave decent assets to wallow in the AHL. 

 

The other half of that equation is that Filppula's contract is up this year and Laughton (while still RFA) is only under contract for one more year.  I really like Vecchione and I feel like even though he's already older than Laughton now, it's really important to let him get some NHL ice time as he SHOULD either be the 4C of the future or a moderately valuable trade chip.  However, like Jordan Weal before him (whom some of us may have heard Riley Cote admit was kept in the AHL so long for "political" reasons... whatever that means) I fear that Vex won't get the NHL minutes to prove that be belongs or prove himself to have actual value in a trade.   

 

Vecchione strikes me as the kind of player that the Flyers could discard and who could end up being a major player on some other cup winner down the road and everyone will say, "where has this guy been all this time?!?!"  And I don't mean he's going to score a ton of goals, I mean he'll be the kind of really solid player who revs it up in the playoffs, can shut down the opposition's best forwards and chip in a key goal or two here and there.  Basically the meat and potatoes kind of good player that wins cups by playing a ton of really strong minutes when your superstars either get swallowed up by defenses or injured.

 

Frost seems to be tearing it up right now.  The scuttlebutt on him and why Hextall moved up to get him supposedly was his vision and hockey sense.  He really seemed to impress at the prospect camp in this way as well.  He's a really smooth puck mover who can score goals as well and makes things look easy with his vision and smarts.  I think he stays at Center most likely for these reasons.  Right now it seems that if he works out, He's the 2C or 3C of the future depending on what happens with Couturier and Patrick.

 

Folks were really high on Rubstov, and he did well in juniors last year (22 pts in 16 games) but he's been hurt so it's difficult to judge... he's got 22 points in 21 games now.

 

Vorobyov is an obvious candidate to move to wing, but he and LIndblom both really seem to be struggling with the North American game a bit right now.  Not sure where that leaves things because I thought Lindblom actually looked fairly decent in preseason.   

 

Strohm and Radcliffe if they come along are already wings I believe.  

 

I'm happy to trade any and all of these guys, but I hope we can get some actual value for them.

 

 

 

 

Agreed all around.

 

I think Vecchione is really the most important one right now - there's a danger of stagnating in the AHL since he's already 24 (25 in February). So if he doesn't make the team until next year, it's already his 25-26 year old season, which makes me wonder if they're wasting some of his prime.

 

He could be awesome like Gaudreau, but he could also be like Vesey and Caggiula. Meh. And Gaudreau and Vesey were drafted - Caggiula and Vecchione were not. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it doesn't help. 

 

So I'd like to see him here this year - maybe if they move Filppula at the trading deadline. Of course a lot will depend on where the team sits in the standings.

 

I agree about Rubtsov - oft-injured. Hard to get a read. 

 

Frost seems to have the most promise and like you say, would likely remain a C.

 

But like we were discussing in the other thread, it would be totally expected if only one of the three or four centers we have actually pans out.

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Agreed all around.

 

I think Vecchione is really the most important one right now - there's a danger of stagnating in the AHL since he's already 24 (25 in February). So if he doesn't make the team until next year, it's already his 25-26 year old season, which makes me wonder if they're wasting some of his prime.

 

He could be awesome like Gaudreau, but he could also be like Vesey and Caggiula. Meh. And Gaudreau and Vesey were drafted - Caggiula and Vecchione were not. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it doesn't help. 

 

So I'd like to see him here this year - maybe if they move Filppula at the trading deadline. Of course a lot will depend on where the team sits in the standings.

 

I agree about Rubtsov - oft-injured. Hard to get a read. 

 

Frost seems to have the most promise and like you say, would likely remain a C.

 

But like we were discussing in the other thread, it would be totally expected if only one of the three or four centers we have actually pans out.

 

 

I don't know that I think Vecchione has that much in him.  I think he has the potential to be the kind of player Couturier was before this season.  The kind of guy who chews up minutes forechecking the hell out of your tougher opponents in a desperate game 6 or 7 and maybe just maybe frustrates the hell out of them by turning a goal or two the other way.  That's what I'm hoping anyway.  

 

That's the beauty of the Flyers system right now, right?  if one of three turn out to be busts... that's like 3 of 5 or 6 really decent forwards to hope for in their prospect pool.  

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, King Knut said:

I worry about this a little. 

 

No worries my friend it will work it's self out.

 

It's the beauty of the AHL and ELC guys are RFAs and you have exclusive rights.

 

All they need to do regardless of level is keep getting better because as well as the closer they all get to the NHL the less there are of roster spots to fight for.

 

This is good for the Flyers and all these kids see this and know this.

 

It will benefit the club big time and when there is no more room to put guys then you have a problem. A good one though now you have to decide who is the better prospect and loser could be moved.

 

No matter i believe prospects who have been developed some are always better than just a draft pick....it gives them some sort of concrete value.

 

Ron will have to continue to wheel and deal. 

 

I just can't wait till the Mcdud, Lehtera and Weise like contracts are gone!!!