Tired of the pressure

[Stuart]

As a long time leaf lover (I remember the 67 cup as a young boy) and having lived through the highs of the Salming-Macdonald-Sittler era, the lows of the Derlago-Vaive years etc. I am probably going to get vilified for the following observation (at least by non leaf fans): whether it’s the visit by the Calgary Flames to the ACC last night, or our recent Western Canada trip, it seems we are always playing some team who bring their “A” game against us (they are so excited to be playing at the hockey centre of the universe, half their players have family in the stands, the game is on national TV etc). Am I wrong and petty to yearn for some games in US based cities, is it my imagination or are these kinds of games less stressful, do the Leafs not perform better? I read a Vancouver writer who sarcastically commented about their home game having to start at 4pm last Saturday because of the Leafs being the “centre of attention”. Am I the only one who sees the downside? I don’t know if I’ve ever heard this angle from any hockey analyst? What do others think?

[yave1964]

Welcome to the forum first off!

 

  Yeah you better get used to it, this Leaf team seems built for the long haul, young defense on the horizon in Rosen, borgman, Liljegren, ect... to go with the stable of young forwards. It is just going to continue to build. I actually have them in  the finals this year, if the Leafs ever do win a cup Babcock will have his face on the money which is fine because he should be able to just print his own.....

[Stuart]

I hear you, I guess we Leaf fans better get used to these “pressure cooker” games (at least home games and away games in Canada), they can’t sneak up on anyone anymore. I’ll be interested to see how they perform in away venues like Minnesota, Chicago

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Not sure I fully understand the meaning or intent of the opening post, but I will start off by first welcoming you, @Stuart to the forums.

Very good, solid, entertaining group we have here.

Stick with us and you won't be bored, that is for sure, as we straddle the line between high hockey IQ and absurdity like no one else, IMO.

 

Anyways...when has there NOT been pressure to win in Toronto?

This is why I don't understand the opening post.

You say you are a long time Leafs fan...well, then you should understand there is ALWAYS pressure to win in Toronto, the media will have the team under a microscope at all times, NOTHING is hidden or private if you are a Leaf, a Leafs coach, or anyone associated with the franchise.....even when the team has had the kind of gawd awful runs like the Leafs have had before seemingly turning a corner in the last couple seasons.

 

Teams bringing their "A" games just to play the Leafs?

Well, I would imagine those teams are bringing their 'A' games because THEY want to win too, have lots of pride and it just is no fun taking a beating on the ice and coming away with a loss for your efforts.

 

In fact, I would say teams that DON'T bring their "A" games to face ANYONE (this is NOT centered around Toronto) are the exception and those teams are likely wallowing in a losing culture to begin with and are probably last or near last in whatever division they happen to be in.

 

Show me a team that brings their "A" game against a team like the high scoring leafs, but their 'B' game against a woeful scoring team like the Sabres, and I will show you a team that not only deserves to come away with a loss that night, but probably deserves their place in the league cellar.

 

I honestly see no difference in the amount of 'pressure' the team or its players are under now than from when they were losing 50 games a year.

 

As far as I am concerned, and I am NOT dumping on the team or its fans as I happen to LOVE our resident Leafs posters, Toronto hasn't done jack squat in a long, long time and need to PROVE they belong at the top and be treated with whatever 'celebrity' the media wants to heap upon them.

 

I get that "it's Toronto" and the media can hype the team to the moon (and some within the fanbase will have their own arrogance raised to ridiculous levels because of it), but until the team has actually done something for a complete season and then into the postseason, no amount of hype will get me to put the Leafs any higher than any other team out there looking to prove themselves.

 

I will acknowledge the Leafs have a very good thing going...but I've watched enough of their games to also acknowledge they still have some 'growing' to do in many areas of their game.

Whether it is simply a lack of experience or the need to eventually replace parts that don't quite have "champion" emblazoned across their foreheads, that will remain to be seen.

 

Then of course, there is management of the talent and decision making by the front office to maintain a winner in this capped NHL.

Remember...the last time the Leafs were really relevant, year in, year out in any playoff conversations it was BEFORE the cap was instituted in the NHL (05-06 season), so not only is there going to still be growing going on with players on the ice, but also with ownership navigating capped NHL waters to keep a competitive team year after year

 

Again, welcome to our boards, please DO enjoy your time here and visit us often.

 

Leafs pressure? Sure...was always there. Pressure like few other places (Montreal can compare I think too).

The Cup and their chances at it?

Remains to be seen...to me, no different than any other team trying to move their way up the NHL hierarchy.

[WordsOfWisdom]

11 hours ago, Stuart said:

I am probably going to get vilified for the following observation (at least by non leaf fans): whether it’s the visit by the Calgary Flames to the ACC last night, or our recent Western Canada trip, it seems we are always playing some team who bring their “A” game against us (they are so excited to be playing at the hockey centre of the universe, half their players have family in the stands, the game is on national TV etc). Am I wrong and petty to yearn for some games in US based cities, is it my imagination or are these kinds of games less stressful, do the Leafs not perform better?

 

I think that would apply more if the Leafs (like the Yankees in baseball) had the W's to go with the fanbase. We have wins so far this season, but I'm talking about in general. To have the "New York Yankee effect" in visiting arenas means winning some Cups and being a dominant force in the league. Even if the Leafs won the Cup this year, they still wouldn't be a draw down south. It would be seen as a fluke. The Leafs have little to no appeal for fans down south. They are the "Arizona Coyotes of Canada" in the eyes of Americans.

 

I do know what you're trying to say though. The players on those teams get up for those games against Toronto (in Toronto especially) because they're in prime time, the arena at the ACC is sold out, and people are watching at home, but I'd say the effect is the other way around. Playing the Canadian teams shouldn't be an issue. They get plenty of exposure up here. It's playing teams like Arizona, Carolina, etc... that are the issue. Whenever those teams play Toronto, there's always someone on their roster that is a Toronto-born player and they bring their A-game against the Leafs and pile up big numbers because all of their family has tickets to that game. 

 

 

 

[Stuart]

Wow, wonderful feedback, thank you and I am so happy to be able to have intelligent, insightful commentary back and forth. I don’t think I know one single ardent, informed true Leaf fan personally (my wife and her family all cheer for Calgary). Thank you both for the length and depth of your replies too.

 

Let me elaborate on my “tired of the pressure” tirade. Let’s suppose the St Louis Blues visit the Winnipeg Jets-not a “media hotspot, centre of the universe” venue , maybe one player on St Louis roster from the area, no national TV exposure. Shortly after they then visit the Leafs. All things being equal (no roster changes, no health, injury issues that have changed, no fatigue factor), but a different team “appears”, stoked by all the Adrenalin that playing the Leafs in Toronto provokes. To get the same result, in other words, our Leafs have to expend more energy (assuming in this laboratory experiment that all 3 teams were of equal skill, no luck involved). That’s what I think is the downside-watching visiting teams come to Toronto and all of a sudden there is “fire” in their eyes, they play their best game in a month. They love this “fishbowl” break in a tedious schedule and have been looking forward to it for a long time. 

 

I agree that Montreal has a lot of the same hype, and I lived there for several years (and grew up in Quebec surrounded by the mystique of “Les Canadiens”) but I don’t think it was quite as intense, there weren’t the same number of visiting players from the area for one thing.

 

Better stop my rant, imagine if the Leafs did win the cup, the “fishbowl” effect the following year would be incredible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stuart]

Good analogy using the New York Yankees. We could become that

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 12/8/2017 at 12:31 PM, Stuart said:

Wow, wonderful feedback, thank you and I am so happy to be able to have intelligent, insightful commentary back and forth. I don’t think I know one single ardent, informed true Leaf fan personally (my wife and her family all cheer for Calgary). Thank you both for the length and depth of your replies too.

 

Thanks. 

 

Side story:  I actually used to be a member of the HFBoards forum but was banished one day (permanently of course) for telling a moderator "I think you're wrong" in regards to some typical hockey game discussion. I came here and have been happy ever since. This forum is at least 10,000x better than HFBoards forum. It's quality of posts over quantity. 

 

On 12/8/2017 at 12:31 PM, Stuart said:

Let me elaborate on my “tired of the pressure” tirade. Let’s suppose the St Louis Blues visit the Winnipeg Jets-not a “media hotspot, centre of the universe” venue , maybe one player on St Louis roster from the area, no national TV exposure. Shortly after they then visit the Leafs. All things being equal (no roster changes, no health, injury issues that have changed, no fatigue factor), but a different team “appears”, stoked by all the Adrenalin that playing the Leafs in Toronto provokes. To get the same result, in other words, our Leafs have to expend more energy (assuming in this laboratory experiment that all 3 teams were of equal skill, no luck involved).

 

Exactly. It's because many of these players choose to play in non-hockey markets (usually in sun belt locations but not always). They win their Stanley Cups and enjoy all sorts of success on the ice, except that nobody cares... because nobody is watching. It's the old "tree falling in the woods" scenario. As an NHL player, you can win all the Cups and trophies you want to but you don't truly "exist" until you've played in front of fans in markets like Toronto, Montreal, New York, etc... Until we've seen you play, and you show us something, then you haven't really shown anyone anything. That's basically how it goes. Players that perform on hockey's biggest stage (which is HNIC) get noticed. Players that don't, get buried. 

 

Thus, when a Canadian born player is playing the Leafs in Toronto, they know there are 10x as many eyeballs on them in that game vs their last home game playing in front of 5000 people or whatever. It just matters more. It's like a playoff game when you play Toronto because you're noticed. 

 

[Stuart]

Good points, like your comment “noticed in Toronto”. 

Tonights game in Pittsburgh was refreshing; along the lines of our theme in this thread, the “on the road”, “not a big deal in Pittsburgh” Leafs where much more relaxed, more effective and defeated a very talented, experienced team. Despite Din Cherry’s eulogy to Frederick Anderson (we’d lose every game unless he was in goal), the Leafs were in control and were on the edge of making it 5-0 or 6-0 with a little luck. 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

9 hours ago, Stuart said:

Good points, like your comment “noticed in Toronto”. 

Tonights game in Pittsburgh was refreshing; along the lines of our theme in this thread, the “on the road”, “not a big deal in Pittsburgh” Leafs where much more relaxed, more effective and defeated a very talented, experienced team. Despite Din Cherry’s eulogy to Frederick Anderson (we’d lose every game unless he was in goal), the Leafs were in control and were on the edge of making it 5-0 or 6-0 with a little luck. 

 

 

See my Tor vs Pit thread for details...