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Karlsson


brelic

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Apparently things are not great in Sens-land with Karlsson. I've seen it at least three different places that Karlsson could be moved - one site even stated he was asked by the Sens for his no-trade list.

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-trade-rumors-december-10-2017/

 

Would it make sense for the Flyers to make an offer? What would that look like? He'll be expensive - max contract. But he's a game breaker.

 

So, just for fun, my offer would be:

 

Ghost

Voracek

 

There should be no reason for picks or prospects. This gives Ottawa a Karlsson replacement who's younger, and some help up front.

 

We get a blueline anchor with Provorov to dominate the top pairing for the next several years.

 

But at the end of the day, would I actually make the trade? I don't think I would. Karlsson will want 8 years, $10M-ish. 

 

The question is whether you think that money is better spent on Karlsson or the combo or Ghost/Voracek ($12.75M).

 

 

 

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Interesting ...... at 27, Karlsson still has lots of hockey in him.  Would you have any concern about his recovery from his foot injury?  As much as I like Ghost....... Karlsson is >>>>>>> Ghost.   Agree...Karlsson and Provy would be a top pair for years.  Voracek, despite his scoring this year, is slowly losing favor among some on here with his stupid penalties at inopportune times.  "IF" no prospects or draft picks are involved, then open dialogue could possibly occur.

 

Very interesting scenario....... would need to look at this more closely. 

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7 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

Interesting ...... at 27, Karlsson still has lots of hockey in him.  Would you have any concern about his recovery from his foot injury?  As much as I like Ghost....... Karlsson is >>>>>>> Ghost.   Agree...Karlsson and Provy would be a top pair for years.  Voracek, despite his scoring this year, is slowly losing favor among some on here with his stupid penalties at inopportune times.  "IF" no prospects or draft picks are involved, then open dialogue could possibly occur.

 

Very interesting scenario....... would need to look at this more closely. 

 

I don't know much about his foot injury or how well he's recovered from it. He is a team-worst -16 so far this season.

 

A move like this probably makes us a worse team in the short term - so would it be a smart long-term move?

 

 

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Voracek accounts for Karlsson's money and Ghost is soon replaceable with any number of kids. I'd definitely consider this. What does Hoffman make? The idiot coach currently has him on the third line. Could we steal him away while we're at it? 

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47 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Voracek accounts for Karlsson's money and Ghost is soon replaceable with any number of kids. I'd definitely consider this. What does Hoffman make? The idiot coach currently has him on the third line. Could we steal him away while we're at it? 

 

Hoffman has 2 more years at $5.2M (cap hit). Love his shot. Not sure if he is in the doghouse or what, but when a team is reeling like the Sens are, it's definitely time to pounce to try and snag some scoring. I like Hoffman's shot. He's a righty too.

 

EDIT: Did I say that I love his shot?

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34 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Hoffman has 2 more years at $5.2M (cap hit). Love his shot. Not sure if he is in the doghouse or what, but when a team is reeling like the Sens are, it's definitely time to pounce to try and snag some scoring. I like Hoffman's shot. He's a righty too.

 

EDIT: Did I say that I love his shot?

 

I really like Hoffman.   You may not be aware, but he has a really good shot.   I love it.

 

If we can fit the cap room, let's do Karlsson/Hoffman for Voracek/Ghost.  It would throw in a 3rd or something if it was necessary.

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7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

If we can fit the cap room, let's do Karlsson/Hoffman for Voracek/Ghost.  It would throw in a 3rd or something if it was necessary

 

I would go for this in a nano-second.....but would the Sens....... ????

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2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I would go for this in a nano-second.....but would the Sens....... ????

 

I don't see why they would.

 

But had you asked me "would the Sens go for the Turris/Duchene deal?"  I would have said, "I don't see why they would."

 

And look at the way they're constructing their lines.    I think reason in Ottawa has died.

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23 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I would go for this in a nano-second.....but would the Sens....... ????

 

I think they would and frankly that's what gives me pause.  I think it's overpaying.  I really really think everyone here is somehow strangely underestimating Voracek's importance to this team.  

 

Also... A swede with a foot problem who may be the greatest in the world at his position?  Been down that road before.  I'm a little gun shy.  His season is NOT going well either.  I'd really want to be able to get a FIRM grasp on his situation before doing this.  

 

Karlsson is mucho >>> Ghost, but Ghost and Voracek is a lot to give up for a dude if he's just going to struggle.  He's only 27, but he's also only under contract for another year after this one.  While that could essentially add another $8 million to the (I think I calculated at close to $30 million) the flyers will have off the books in two years which is nearly unprecedented... however at the same time, Hextall would then need to sign A Top D man AND  TWO top wingers at the same time.  That's no small order even with $23 million burning a hole in your pocket (assuming 7 million at least goes to resigning guys like Laughton and Raffle to fill out the lineup) and Oh yeah... Provo will need his bridge deal by then so it may make sense to just give him his big deal while he's on the UFA hook.  

 

And as much as Voracek's contract will likely be a nightmare in a few years, the guy is on fire offensively and he seems to be elevating the play of everyone else around him quite a bit.  He leads the league in assists.

 

There's another reason not to make this trade that is perhaps the most significant.  Do we really think Hakstol will tolerate Karlsson being Karlsson on his team?  Especially after we've seen how much Ghost's game has been diminished and chilled out under Hak?  

 

There will be some worthwhile forwards out there in the UFA pool in two years:  Panarin, Seqguin, Skinner, 

 

but still... I don't know.  We all feel the yolk of Jake's Cap Hit... but I don't know if I'd rather feel that or the Yolk of replacing him on a team that can't seem to score without him on their line.  

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, King Knut said:

A swede with a foot problem who may be the greatest in the world at his position?  Been down that road before.  I'm a little gun shy. 

 

I really don't think the two are comparable. There's lots of Swedish hockey players and they all have two feet. Other than that....

 

10 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I really really think everyone here is somehow strangely underestimating Voracek's importance to this team.  

 

I think what Flyer fans might be undervaluing is not so much his value to the Flyers, but how other teams may value Voracek. If you know what I mean. 

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1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

I really don't think the two are comparable. There's lots of Swedish hockey players and they all have two feet. Other than that....

 

That was mostly a joke... but the conditions apply.  Moreover, going "all in" on any player purported to be so special and generational frightens me for the same reason Forseberg didn't work out.  They get hurt.  

 

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

I think what Flyer fans might be undervaluing is not so much his value to the Flyers and how other teams may value Voracek. If you know what I mean. 

 

I actually don't think I do know what you mean.  Do you mean that the league and Senators in this case won't think much of Voracek?

 

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

 

I really don't think the two are comparable. There's lots of Swedish hockey players and they all have two feet. Other than that....

 

 

I think what Flyer fans might be undervaluing is not so much his value to the Flyers and how other teams may value Voracek. If you know what I mean. 

 

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1 minute ago, King Knut said:

I actually don't think I do know what you mean.  Do you mean that the league and Senators in this case won't think much of Voracek?

 

I mean the opposite, sorry. I think Flyer fans may not value Voracek the same way Senators execs do. You know, because we magnify the faults (the lack of finish, the bonehead plays etc) and therefore undervalue him relative to how others value him based mainly on his stats, for example.

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2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I mean the opposite, sorry. I think Flyer fans may not value Voracek the same way Senators execs do. You know, because we magnify the faults (the lack of finish, the bonehead plays etc) and therefore undervalue him relative to how others value him based mainly on his stats, for example.

 

Ooooooh ;)    YEah that I could see.  

 

If you're a GM who just lost in the conference finals game 7 and your forwards can't seem to find the net with a GPS and a flashlight, a Gy like Voracek who helps people score goals might look like a wise addition to the likes of a sputtering Bobby Ryan and Matt Duchene.  

 

No, Voracek hasn't scored a ton of points in recent years, but he has lead the team in points for most of the last 5 years.  And as I've stated elsewhere many times, I think the fact that those point totals have been fairly low have had much more to do with the systems the coach(es) have asked them to invoke for the past 3 seasons.  

 

I guess my major issue with this trade is the question of what Karlsson would bring to the Flyers... for how long would be bring it and how valuable would it be to the team?  

 

I'd almost say trade them Voracek and MacDonald for Karlsson and do what needs to be done to sign a player like Tavares.  

 

At least that way you can keep Ghost and have two absolutely killer PP units... A 2nd line centered by Couturier would at least play net positive 5 on 5 hockey if not light the world on fire.  

 

I still have absolutely no idea what to do about Simmonds.  He's not making it any easier looking so human with this injury or whatever he's been nursing.  

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1 minute ago, King Knut said:

I guess my major issue with this trade is the question of what Karlsson would bring to the Flyers... for how long would be bring it and how valuable would it be to the team? 

 

I would hope he brings the player that he was in the playoffs last year, which was the best player on the planet. He was that good. He's the reason they beat Boston and New York.

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Quote

 

Brandon Sommermann@PSN_BSommermann


Just had a nice talk with a source saying the Flyers are done and fed up with Neuvirth's injury history. Hearing when he comes off IR, he will be on the move. #Flyers #FlyersTalk #NHL

 

 

You know, Ottawa desperately needs help in goal. Throw him in the trade mix. 

 

 

EDIT - As a side note, Duchene has 4 pts in 14 games since the trade, and Turris has 13 pts in 14. Ouch.

 

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I would be leary of his foot injury. Also, I haven't seen him playing this year and the -16 is worrisome.

Can totally get behind those who remember the Footpa fiasco.

Is he a dick ? 

 

He was breathtakingly good last year in the playoffs.  It would be amazeballs to get to watch him night in and night out. I was too young to really "get" Mark Howe's brilliance. Pull Barber's # 7 out of the rafters if he askes for it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I really like Hoffman.   You may not be aware, but he has a really good shot.   I love it.

 

If we can fit the cap room, let's do Karlsson/Hoffman for Voracek/Ghost.  It would throw in a 3rd or something if it was necessary.

In a heart beat. I have always liked Hoffman, would love to have him on this team. As much as I like Ghost, Karlsson = Enough Said" even though he is injured he will recover he is one of the best if not the best in the business.

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3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I would hope he brings the player that he was in the playoffs last year, which was the best player on the planet. He was that good. He's the reason they beat Boston and New York.

 

...Until he got hurt.  

 

You'll get no argument from me that Karlsson is an absolutely amazing player.  And no one played better than him in the playoffs last year.  Totally agreed.

 

The question I have is whether or not, he'll be able to do that here and by trading away our top producing forward, would this deal create a scenario in which the Flyers would absolutely NEED Karlsson to do absolutely everything?  

 

Would they be able to sign Voracek & SImmonds replacements AND resign Karlsson in two years?

 

Karlsson might be able to take over a game in the playoffs when you really need him to...if he's healthy.   And he does put up great offensive numbers for a D man and they have been close to or surpassing Jake's offensive numbers in the last few seasons.  

 

However, he's been -30 and -16 in his career and he's -16 again already this year.  Even when you take into account his 25-30 Power Play Points a season (which by the way Ghost already produces more PP points per game than Karlsson).

 

Even if you can get a healthy Karlsson and even if Hakstol lets him take over games in the playoffs, I still think you're giving up WAY too much in Ghost and Jake to get him that he will never hope to replace.  You're probably going to have to overpay him to keep him in two years.  

 

As cool as he is and as much fun as it would be to have him, I neither see this team making any room for him to play the game that makes him so much fun to watch, nor see him as much of a help to this team's needs... ESPECIALLY the needs created by losing jake and ghost.  

 

Pass.  

 

 

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10 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

You know, Ottawa desperately needs help in goal. Throw him in the trade mix. 

 

 

EDIT - As a side note, Duchene has 4 pts in 14 games since the trade, and Turris has 13 pts in 14. Ouch.

 

 

Was never high on Duchene myself.  Always seemed like a lot of hype for... I'm not sure what.

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2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

...Until he got hurt.  

 

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Even if you can get a healthy Karlsson

 

The guy has missed all of 5 games over 4 seasons, including 3 consecutive seasons without missing a game. It not an issue, so don't try to make it one. 

 

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Pass.  

 

 

Fair enough, for all the other reasons you state in your post. I'm not certain I'd do it, depending on the details.

 

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