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13 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

How do you know did you sit in on the meeting?

 

 

He was the Assistant General Manager and Director of hockey Operations smart ass of course he was in on it. But you knew that right?

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11 hours ago, King Knut said:

Weise wasmt a bad signing.  The Weise we're getting is NOT nearly the player he showed in MNTL.  It was a bust, but not a trrrible idea for the money. The player he was was worth that deal.   The fact that the player he is now isn't is a different matter.  

 

 

 Totally agree with this. When we signed Weise, I had watched him play in 5 or 6 games for Montreal. I came away impressed. When the Flyers signed him, I happily told other Flyer fans that Hexy had just pulled off a nice move...(basing my opinion on his work with the Habs of course) ...I don't know what the hell happened, but he is just not the same guy. Don't know if it is physical, mental, or a bit of both, but he sucks right now, and he never used to. 

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18 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Weise wasmt a bad signing.  The Weise we're getting is NOT nearly the player he showed in MNTL.  It was a bust, but not a trrrible idea for the money. The player he was was worth that deal.   The fact that the player he is now isn't is a different matter.  

 

 

When you give a 27 year old twice the term and twice the money and he blows up in your face that is a Bad Signing.

 

See: MacDonald, Andrew.

 

His 26 points in 59 games for MTL may have shown something, but his one assist in 15 for the Blackhawks should have shown something, too. Chicago effectively gave up a 2nd for him and walked away.

 

And it's not "hindsight" if one said it at the time.

 

This team's record is a pretty good indicator of who and what they are. They're four points out of a playoff spot with three teams in front of them and there are all of eight teams in the league behind them. They're all psyched about beating the Islanders, who by all accounts (even their coach) are something of a disaster. Oh, and they're ahead of the Flyers.

 

"Should be better" doesn't matter when they're simply not. Coaching is sure part of it, but the overall talent level on the team just isn't on the level to compete seriously in the Metropolitan.

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Keep it going kid.

 

Sad to end a very impressive win streak on a freaking shootout. Nice clutch goal by Frost there though...

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1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

When you give a 27 year old twice the term and twice the money and he blows up in your face that is a Bad Signing.

 

See: MacDonald, Andrew.

 

His 26 points in 59 games for MTL may have shown something, but his one assist in 15 for the Blackhawks should have shown something, too. Chicago effectively gave up a 2nd for him and walked away.

 

And it's not "hindsight" if one said it at the time.

 

This team's record is a pretty good indicator of who and what they are. They're four points out of a playoff spot with three teams in front of them and there are all of eight teams in the league behind them. They're all psyched about beating the Islanders, who by all accounts (even their coach) are something of a disaster. Oh, and they're ahead of the Flyers.

 

"Should be better" doesn't matter when they're simply not. Coaching is sure part of it, but the overall talent level on the team just isn't on the level to compete seriously in the Metropolitan.

 

Hisnone assist in 15 games showed that Chicago put him on 4th dumpster duty during their playoff push and cut his minutes drastically.  

 

At at least that's a valid argument for the decline. 

 

Sure, it's absolutely a bad signing, but really only in hindsight. 

 

The biggest thing I'll fault Hextall on is the duration which could surely have been shorter but his salary isn't terrible.  Comparing it to the Mac signing is extreme. It didn't work out.  It's like like it's Mac or VLC or Bryzgalov or trading JVR for Luke Schenn.   It's not the kind of signing that shackles the team for a decade.  It just means they're stuck with a sub par player. If they bought him out now, they'd barely feel the penalty and they can bury him in the press box or the AHL as soon as they feel Lindblom Martel, or Vecchione are ready. It's a bad signing but really come on... it's no biggie. The biggie is continuing to play him every night when Better options that are part of your future exist. 

 

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8 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Totally agree with this. When we signed Weise, I had watched him play in 5 or 6 games for Montreal. I came away impressed. When the Flyers signed him, I happily told other Flyer fans that Hexy had just pulled off a nice move...(basing my opinion on his work with the Habs of course) ...I don't know what the hell happened, but he is just not the same guy. Don't know if it is physical, mental, or a bit of both, but he sucks right now, and he never used to. 

 

I think like Hitchcock before him, onky very very special players tend to look good playing for Hakstol.  Mediocre ones who might have had promise elsewhere are slowed and made more boring and to look confused.  

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20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

We'll see if this way works.

 

I've never been apart of doing it this way.

 

Guess we'll see in a few years.

 

This hardest part to swallow is most including me just expected them to be more competitive along the way.

 

Is that fair? Can't say.

 

Not being competitive along the way has a marginal success rate. 

 

The Blackhawks, Kings and Penguins did it well enough, the Jury's still out on the Maple Leafs, but they were uncompetitive for a LONG time before being above average finally after getting perhaps the best coach in the league at the time and a few of the best young players of the decade. Isles are kind of in the same boat. Lots of talent... not really a great team yet.   

 

Edmonton, Phoenix, Buffalo, Fla, Carolina to name a few have all not made the uncompetitive rebuild work despite years and years of trying. 

 

What team In your opinion has made a rebuild through trades and signings work?

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2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Not being competitive along the way has a marginal success rate. 

 

This is being selfish and only for my enjoyment since i want to watch....however it makes it hard sometimes. But it isn't paramount to have success i think.

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

This is being selfish and only for my enjoyment since i want to watch....however it makes it hard sometimes. But it isn't paramount to have success i think.

 

I'm not sure they really meant it anyway.  

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Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2018 at 3:03 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

We'll see if this way works.

 

I've never been apart of doing it this way.

 

Guess we'll see in a few years.

 

This hardest part to swallow is most including me just expected them to be more competitive along the way.

 

Is that fair? Can't say.

im going to say this, unless they somehow get in top 5 every year, i really dont see how this team is going to get better because building the team without superstar first overall pick wont get you a cup and if hextall traded schenn for an elite top 5 prospect or buffalo or arizona's first round picks, i consider it a good trade because if frost turns out to be bust, it's basically the patrick sharp trade over all again.

Edited by briere48

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29 minutes ago, briere48 said:

im going to say this, unless they somehow get in top 5 every year, i really dont see how this team is going to get better because building the team without superstar first overall pick wont get you a cup and if hextall traded schenn for an elite top 5 prospect or buffalo or arizona's first round picks, i consider it a good trade because if frost turns out to be bust, it's basically the patrick sharp trade over all again.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2018 at 9:05 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He was the Assistant General Manager and Director of hockey Operations smart ass of course he was in on it. But you knew that right?

So your saying an Assistant GM has more say than the Head GM? Your saying that Hextall told Holmgren to get those guys even though Holmgren had a bad track record of making moves like that before Hextall was even there?

 

I know the team is looking mediocre but why is everything always negative, negative, negative with people regarding this team? People have no freaking patience, we finally have a GM who knows the value of draft picks and yes it does take time to build a winner and people like you still complain.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Edited by pilldoc
personal attack removed
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19 minutes ago, briere48 said:

im going to say this, unless they somehow get in top 5 every year, i really dont see how this team is going to get better because building the team without superstar first overall pick wont get you a cup and if hextall traded schenn for an elite top 5 prospect or buffalo or arizona's first round picks, i consider it a good trade because if frost turns out to be bust, it's basically the patrick sharp trade over all again.

 

You have me very curious now as to what’s making you think this. 

 

The Flyers have the highest rated prospect pool in the NHL according to multiple non-local sources.  

 

The Kings never had a superstar first overall pick and Kane is good, but hardly the thing that made the Hawks 3 time champs.  Neither did the Bruins. 

 

The Oilers has a decent run last spring but now seem nearly closer to a cup than they did before. 

 

The Maple Leads Are likewise good and competitive, but it took a decade of sucking to get there... and they’re only just pretty good.  

 

The Penguins got 5 top 5 picks in a row thanks to Bettman screwing over the rest of the league, but they essentially had to rebuild internally, developing prospects with essentially one big external asset to win again. 

 

Tanking is a crap shoot.  Look how long the Oilers, Sabers and Leafs were just awful despite getting high picks.  

 

I don’t want that from the Flyers.  It’s no guarantee of jack.  

 

Dont forget, the Flyers are still killing off Homer contracts.  

 

I’m sure they will sign a key piece or two once Mac, Filppula, Lehtera and others are off the books.  

 

Finally, Sharp was traded for Ellison and a third because Hitchcock hated offensive skill.  Schenn was traded for two firsts.  One of which leads the OHL in points, assists and +\-, the second pick hasn’t happened yet.  

 

The twon trades are not remotely comparable. 

 

Frost was in last twar’s draft because he was just barely under the cut.  He fell to where he did as a result of being so young and still growing.  

 

If things keep going the way they are for him, he looks like he would have Been a top5 pick in 2018 just like you want if he’s just been born a little later.  

 

Additionally, what about the past 20 years of doing things makes you think the Flyers should continue it?  2000?  2004?  2010? Tony Amonte?  Adam Oates?  Zhamnov?  Adam Burt?

 

Finally, it worked a little for them in 2000 and 2004, but there was simply no cap then.  Trying that mentality in ththe cap era is what got us stuck with Mac, Bryz, VLC, Luke Schenn, and lost us Bob, Carter and JVR.  

 

It it has decidedly NOT WORKED. 

 

 

 

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On 1/4/2018 at 2:42 PM, King Knut said:

Weise wasmt a bad signing.  The Weise we're getting is NOT nearly the player he showed in MNTL.  It was a bust, but not a trrrible idea for the money. The player he was was worth that deal.   The fact that the player he is now isn't is a different matter.  

It wasn't a good signing either.  Weise did not deserve the contract he received from the Flyers, nor should he have been targeted by the Flyers.  He got his points by getting significant PP time and being lined with top players.  That's not the case here.  Just not a good signing at the time.  And that's not even hindsight.

  

On 1/4/2018 at 2:42 PM, King Knut said:

This team is WAY too okay with losing.  It's in their heads.  The world won't end if hey lose.

That's a problem.  And part of that falls on the staff and front office.

 

On 1/4/2018 at 2:42 PM, King Knut said:

As as far as the coach goes, I think both he and the GM have made it clear that they are not yet in "time to win" mode.  Which is effing sad To me because I think they're good enough to be in the playoffs now.

Sometimes I look at the roster and wonder how they win.  It's pretty ugly once you get past Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds, Ghost and Provorov.

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20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He was the Assistant General Manager and Director of hockey Operations smart ass of course he was in on it. But you knew that right?

 

Hextall was brought in to relieve Homer because after the Weber offer sheet, teams and subsequently agents wouldn’t deal with Homer.  

 

Those deals happened because they were the best Homer could get.  Didn’t matter  what Hextall advises or suggested.  

 

The fact that Hextall spent his first three years UNDOING those trades and signings and that he sent Mac to the AHL 3 years ago suggest to me anyway that he wasn’t hat into thosthe deals.

 

Most of what he’s done since has been very very different from those deals and has been by and large very functional with little of the downside of the Homerpocalypse.  

 

If giving Dale Weise 2.3million for 4 years is the worst he does, we’re looking a LOT better than Homer. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, vis said:

It wasn't a good signing either.  Weise did not deserve the contract he received from the Flyers, nor should he have been targeted by the Flyers.  He got his points by getting significant PP time and being lined with top players.  That's not the case here.  Just not a good signing at the time.  And that's not even hindsight.

  

That's a problem.  And part of that falls on the staff and front office.

 

Sometimes I look at the roster and wonder how they win.  It's pretty ugly once you get past Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds, Ghost and Provorov.

 

Not sure how you assess talent.  Aside from Weise and Lehtera (who have both played well in the past) this is a pretty talented lineup... most of whom are massively underforming compared to their scouting and talent assessments.  

 

They have a coach who’s lost.  Give them a good one and  watch out. 

 

It’s a LOT like Hitchcock. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Philly29 said:

So your saying an Assistant GM has more say than the Head GM? Your saying that Hextall told Holmgren to get those guys even though Holmgren had a bad track record of making moves like that before Hextall was even there?

 

I know the team is looking mediocre but why is everything always negative, negative, negative with people regarding this team? People have no freaking patience, we finally have a GM who knows the value of draft picks and yes it does take time to build a winner and people like you still complain.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

 

 

I never said anywhere in my post that Hextall shoved him down his throat.

 

Just that he was part of the leadership group who brought him here and i'm sure he was onboard.

 

 

Edited by pilldoc
removed the personal attacks

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

The fact that Hextall spent his first three years UNDOING those trades and signings and that he sent Mac to the AHL 3 years ago suggest to me anyway that he wasn’t hat into thosthe deals.

 

Just because he sent him to the minors doesn't mean that. 

 

And he has already admittes he was part of the call to bring Mcdud in.

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5 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

You have me very curious now as to what’s making you think this. 

 

The Flyers have the highest rated prospect pool in the NHL according to multiple non-local sources.  

 

The Kings never had a superstar first overall pick and Kane is good, but hardly the thing that made the Hawks 3 time champs.  Neither did the Bruins. 

 

The Oilers has a decent run last spring but now seem nearly closer to a cup than they did before. 

 

The Maple Leads Are likewise good and competitive, but it took a decade of sucking to get there... and they’re only just pretty good.  

 

The Penguins got 5 top 5 picks in a row thanks to Bettman screwing over the rest of the league, but they essentially had to rebuild internally, developing prospects with essentially one big external asset to win again. 

 

Tanking is a crap shoot.  Look how long the Oilers, Sabers and Leafs were just awful despite getting high picks.  

 

I don’t want that from the Flyers.  It’s no guarantee of jack.  

 

Dont forget, the Flyers are still killing off Homer contracts.  

 

I’m sure they will sign a key piece or two once Mac, Filppula, Lehtera and others are off the books.  

 

Finally, Sharp was traded for Ellison and a third because Hitchcock hated offensive skill.  Schenn was traded for two firsts.  One of which leads the OHL in points, assists and +\-, the second pick hasn’t happened yet.  

 

The twon trades are not remotely comparable. 

 

Frost was in last twar’s draft because he was just barely under the cut.  He fell to where he did as a result of being so young and still growing.  

 

If things keep going the way they are for him, he looks like he would have Been a top5 pick in 2018 just like you want if he’s just been born a little later.  

 

Additionally, what about the past 20 years of doing things makes you think the Flyers should continue it?  2000?  2004?  2010? Tony Amonte?  Adam Oates?  Zhamnov?  Adam Burt?

 

Finally, it worked a little for them in 2000 and 2004, but there was simply no cap then.  Trying that mentality in ththe cap era is what got us stuck with Mac, Bryz, VLC, Luke Schenn, and lost us Bob, Carter and JVR.  

 

It it has decidedly NOT WORKED. 

 

 

 

 

 Don't know if I ever told you this, but you are one of my favourite posters. You have this amazing gift for seeing the big picture and putting things in the proper context. Having said that, don't agree with your Kane comment. He scored the Cup winning goal in a tight 6 game series in OT. The goal was one that only an elite sniper could have scored. Kane does not rip that puck in there, Flyers have a real nice chance to win that series. Plus, he was the leading scorer for all 3 Hawks cup wins, I don't see how you could play a bigger, more important role in the Hawks championship runs. 

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5 hours ago, vis said:

It wasn't a good signing either.  Weise did not deserve the contract he received from the Flyers, nor should he have been targeted by the Flyers.  He got his points by getting significant PP time and being lined with top players.  That's not the case here.  Just not a good signing at the time.  And that's not even hindsight.

 

 

This is just not true. Weise was a 3rd line role player for his whole stay in Montreal. He never played with stars, and he never appeared on the top Habs pp. Once and a while he was inserted on the Habs 2nd pp, but by no means was he a fixture there. He got noticed because of good old fashioned hard work. In hindsight, a horrible signing, but I can see why he was targeted.

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4 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

I don't see how you could play a bigger, more important role in the Hawks championship runs

 

Well, your name could be Leighton.

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Just now, jammer2 said:

 

This is just not true. Weise was a 3rd line role player for his whole stay in Montreal. He never played with stars, and he never appeared on the top Habs pp. Once and a while he was inserted on the Habs 2nd pp, but by no means was he a fixture there. He got noticed because of good old fashioned hard work. In hindsight, a horrible signing, but I can see why he was targeted.

 

That whole post is true, but I honestly hated the signing when it happened.   And we've gotten what I expected.

 

We have bigger problems, though, than a guy who can eat up some minutes at only a $2.35M cap hit.

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2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Well, your name could be Leighton.

 

 ha ha...the goal was nicely placed. The stunning part of it was that the Leaky one never moved.....a perfect statue but a great or even above average goalie gets at least a part of that puck. 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

That whole post is true, but I honestly hated the signing when it happened.   And we've gotten what I expected.

 

We have bigger problems, though, than a guy who can eat up some minutes at only a $2.35M cap hit.

 

 Yes it was NOT true. I have the facts to back it up. In 3 years with Montreal, he played 10, 12 and 14 minutes per game. These are 3d line minutes. In his entire 3 years for the Habs, he had 3 pp goals and 3 pp assists, all coming in his last year...on the 2nd pp. He was a hard working checker, simple as that. 

 

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EDIT....it could be another couple years until vis gets something this wrong, so had to counter, it is a rare beast, his being wrong...lol. I actually watched Weise in his Montreal years....and have many coworkers who I talk to on a daily basis that are huge Hab fans. 

Edited by jammer2

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