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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, radoran said:

We don't really have a choice, do we?

 

Well, we could lobotomize ourselves, pile all our **** in the street and set it on fire and then cheer for Vegas.

Edited by ruxpin
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2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Well, we could lobotomize ourselves, pile all our **** in the street and set it on fire and then cheer for Vegas.

 

If you are going to go THAT far, then that means you will have to join another forum, post about how you were a long time Flyers fan, how you burned your gear, and are now rooting for the Vegas Knights, all the while taking shots at the Leafs fans on the new board, THEN you'd have to post about baseball in their sub forums.

 

I dunno.

Seems like an AWFUL lot of work just to show you are disgruntled with the Flyers....

It would probably be better just to ride things out till the Flyers become a contender once again.

But that's just me..... 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

It would probably be better just to ride things out till the Flyers become a contender once again

 

Alright, but I'll be 50 in August.   The clock is ticking.

 

And setting crap on fire and being a jerk on some random message board sounds like a lot of fun.

 

(That's the first time I've written "I'll be 50."    I think I'm going to go set crap on fire just to ease the pain)

Edited by ruxpin
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Just now, ruxpin said:

 

Alright, but I'll be 50 in August.   The clock is ticking.

 

And setting crap on fire and being a jerk on some random message board sounds like a lot of fun.

 

(That's the first time I've written "I'll be 50."    I think I'm going to go set crap on fire just to ease the pain)

 

Luminas don't burn

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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Alright, but I'll be 50 in August.   The clock is ticking.

 

And setting crap on fire and being a jerk on some random message board sounds like a lot of fun.

 

(That's the first time I've written "I'll be 50."    I think I'm going to go set crap on fire just to ease the pain)

 

I'll beat you by three months.

 

I never bought in to the buying a Cup theory. 

 

And I'm very disappointed with where the franchise is now.

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6 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I'll beat you by three months.

 

I never bought in to the buying a Cup theory. 

 

And I'm very disappointed with where the franchise is now.

We've been on these here message boards a really long time. You know that? 

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@ruxpin @radoran

 

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

We've been on these here message boards a really long time. You know that? 

Yes, you both have.****shifty eyes****

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4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

We've been on these here message boards a really long time. You know that? 

 

 

when was clarkemustgo.com a thing?  2000, i think?

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1 minute ago, aziz said:

 

 

when was clarkemustgo.com a thing?  2000, i think?

 

Maybe that early.   But it was probably the disaster season after the first lockout when they killed Hitch and Clarke stepped down (up) that it gained real steam.

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8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Maybe that early.   But it was probably the disaster season after the first lockout when they killed Hitch and Clarke stepped down (up) that it gained real steam.

 

i think i remember arguing about the lindros situation there before the trade to NYC.  and then "he went loopy on us" is on my t-shirt, and that was.....2000.

 

who actually ran that site?  there was that fly-over of a flyers charity softball game, with a Clarke Must Go banner trailing....good times.

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19 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Yes, that is the frustrating part, the lack of consistency, these teaser 7 game winning streaks encapsulated in horrific losing skids before and after. Hak can't play the game, but you wonder if someone can get more out of a team that seems to be better at times. 

yeah, even though I don't think the roster is great, you wonder if someone else could get them to be more consistent (on the good side).

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19 hours ago, brelic said:

I do think he's a talented player. He does a lot of things right, he's fast, and he's got some offensive skills - definitely enough for a job in the NHL. 

I think Laughton is a hard worker and has good wheels.  But I don't know if that's "talent."  I do wish he'd be a little more physical, but he's been an improvement this year.

 

19 hours ago, brelic said:

 

While you didn't say PEB or Paquette are more talented than Laughton, your statement leads one to believe that if we have zero talent, surely other teams must have > 0 talent, no? So I looked at the best/better teams in the NHL and what their 4th line looks like. It's not any better than Laughton.

I wasn't intending a player-by-player comparison.  And just because Laughton might have more points than players on other teams doesn't make him "talented."  It just means he has more points that some other fourth line players.

 

19 hours ago, brelic said:

So my question to you would be, outside of Weise and Lehtera, is it an age/experience issue (i.e. they will get better in time) or do you think it's a personnel issue?

In Patrick's case and maybe Laughton's, I think they will get better in time.  Patrick shouldn't even be in the discussion re: the bottom 6, hopefully.  I do think Laughton can continue to progress.  Weal, I'm not sure about.  Leier hasn't shown much, which is a little disappointing.  Hopefully there are guys on the Phantoms or in the pipeline that can strengthen the bottom, e.g., Vecchione, Vorobyev, Rubtsov, Laczynski, Marody, Bunnaman, Twarynski, etc..

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16 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I think Laughton has been good to very good this year also. 

I don't know where the "no skill" idea has taken shape, gotten legs, whatever...

 

He has attributes that can't be taught. He is fast, he is hyper-competitive. As AJ says he has a nice shot, and isn't afraid to pull the trigger. I think he sees the ice pretty well. Usually he and Leier & as people have said "player X" cycle the **** out of the puck. 

He is exhibit-A for why the AHL works.  He was allowed to go to LHV and get right, get his game on and get confident. 

 

I hope he continues to be a Flyer, I'd take 2 more of him if possible.

 

Yeah, I can't help but wonder how he might have progressed had it not been for the injuries.  He was really showing flashes on this kind of thing in his first stint with the Flyers before he was so badly injured.  Nice to see him putting it together.  

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1 hour ago, aziz said:

 

i think i remember arguing about the lindros situation there before the trade to NYC.  and then "he went loopy on us" is on my t-shirt, and that was.....2000.

 

who actually ran that site?  there was that fly-over of a flyers charity softball game, with a Clarke Must Go banner trailing....good times.

 

OH yeah, you're right.   I forget who that was.

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Posted (edited)

@King Knut

 

I appreciate your responses and I wish I had the time to give all you've said a proper read and due consideration.  However, just a few points:

 

19 hours ago, King Knut said:

Really depends on what you mean by bottom 6 doesn't it?  

The bottom 6 forwards in the lineup, not necessarily lines.  No one would argue that Simmonds is a bottom six player.  He's played on the "third line" because Konecny moved up to RW on the top line.  Does that mean Simmonds is a bottom 6 player and Raffl (or Konecny) is a bona fide top 6 player?  No.  I think of bottom six like this: Raffl, Patrick, Weal, Laughton, Weise, Lehtera and Leier [I know that's 7 but that's because Weise, Lehtera and Leier rotate in and out of the lineup - they are all bottom 6 players).

 

Quote

Is it that you believe Patrick, Weal, Laughton and perhaps Konecney have no talent?  

Please see my response toy Brelic.  For the record, I do think Konecny has talent.  He's just not using it well (until recently).

 

Quote

But watching how these Flyers play when they're focused (the way they've played when they've beaten Tampa, St. Louis, Chicago, Toronto, et al) I just can't see calling them untalented and saying that they can't be a top 3 team in the division.

The Flyers play well when they are more determined that the other team.  That's not "talent."  Also, I never said the team is untalented across the board, which your statement seems to imply.

 

19 hours ago, King Knut said:

I'd be really depressed to be honest.  If that were the case, I'd feel like there was little future for this squad.  It's the fact that they show such promise in some moments that lead to big wins and commit highly correctable mistakes in other moments that lead to stupid losses.... and by and large the stupid mistakes are coming from inexperienced rookies who are learning on the job and from below average vets who will not be here long. 

That's an interesting perspective, though disagree a little about the root causes of the lengthier skids.

Edited by vis

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15 hours ago, radoran said:

@vis

 

50 points to visyndor for Lehterable.

 

:cheers:

Thank you!!  Is there a prize I can claim with those points?

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, vis said:

The Flyers play well when they are more determined that the other team.  That's not "talent."  Also, I never said the team is untalented across the board, which your statement seems to imply.

 

I guess there's just a wide discrepancy between us all on what we all mean by "talent".  

 

15 minutes ago, vis said:

That's an interesting perspective, though disagree a little about the root causes of the lengthier skids.

 

When I look at the 10 game "losing" streak, I see a lot of games that the Flyers were actually winning but somehow managed to lose. 

I saw a lot of games when the Flyers just didn't seem to be there mentally until the 3rd period when they were already down two goals.  

Then there were a few games (the MN pair e.g.) where they just never seemed to show up at all. 

 

But very rarely (the Kings perhaps) have I seen games this year when I thought, "well this is a team that is doing it's best, but is just outmatched."  

 

That's why I have hope for the future and that's why (despite my hatred of so many of his stupid mistakes that have directly lead to losses) I can't completely disavow Hakstol.  

 

When I think back to the competitive teams of '95-'04 and then the '08-'13 teams, by and large, even when those teams where dominating the standings, they kinda looked like they were holding on for dear life the whole game.  Aside from a few stretches here and there (i.e. whenever they'd play the Canadiens in the PO's for instance) They very frequently felt lucky to be in the game if they managed to win it.  

 

It's different from the '80's teams that were good that felt like they were where they belonged and in control and eventually would simply be outclassed by whoever (usually the Oilers).  And very different from the cup teams (that other teams seemed to skate away from in horror half the time).  

 

This team gives me the distinct impression that they are simply not playing up to their potential yet.  That their fundamentals aren't on par with their talent yet.  They tend to lose because a rookie screws up at the blue line or blows coverage by losing track of his man.  Not because they are "fundamentally" inferior talent wise.  To me, the last three games feel like who these flyers have been all season.  It's more or less how they started the season.  They're just a little weighted down and shackled by many of them needing to learn a few basic NHL lessons and by a few guys just not belonging in the NHL, at least not on a competitive roster.  

 

Honestly, I haven't felt this good about a team since 2008 and I felt better about that team than I did any team since 1988.  

 

Maybe I don't think they're going to win a cup, but it feels like the organization has it's head in the right place again.  Like we're going to get a good competitive team for a good long while... unless the GM goes completely bonkers like Homer did in 2012.  

Edited by King Knut

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1 hour ago, vis said:

The Flyers play well when they are more determined that the other team.  That's not "talent."  Also, I never said the team is untalented across the board, which your statement seems to imply.

 

The flip side of a middling team "getting up" to play a "good" team is that the "good" teams can have a tendency to overlook "lesser" teams.

 

When you get to a seven game series in the playoffs, you're talking about a completely different animal.

 

When you have a team that has been 6th, 5th and 6th in the division the past three years and are again in the lower depths of the division - with a great  deal of the same roster - that's probably a better indicator of where they stack up than a "good game" against a "good team."

 

Remember when losing 4-3 to a Cup finalist was a "good indicator"?

 

That was three years ago.  

 

:bonkingheadonwall:

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1 hour ago, King Knut said:

I guess there's just a wide discrepancy between us all on what we all mean by "talent".  

Fair enough.

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

When I look at the 10 game "losing" streak, I see a lot of games that the Flyers were actually winning but somehow managed to lose. 

I saw a lot of games when the Flyers just didn't seem to be there mentally until the 3rd period when they were already down two goals.  

Then there were a few games (the MN pair e.g.) where they just never seemed to show up at all. 

 

But very rarely (the Kings perhaps) have I seen games this year when I thought, "well this is a team that is doing it's best, but is just outmatched."  

 

That's why I have hope for the future and that's why (despite my hatred of so many of his stupid mistakes that have directly lead to losses) I can't completely disavow Hakstol.

I get some of that, though I do think they've been outmatched a number of times.  Part of being outmatched is not playing a full 60 minutes, not being mentally strong or making mistakes the other team doesn't.  That may improve over time, though those things have been hallmarks of this core for a while.  Which raises another question.  To what extent will this current core be here and effectively contributing in the future?  What's the window you're thinking about?

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

When I think back to the competitive teams of '95-'04 and then the '08-'13 teams, by and large, even when those teams where dominating the standings, they kinda looked like they were holding on for dear life the whole game.  Aside from a few stretches here and there (i.e. whenever they'd play the Canadiens in the PO's for instance) They very frequently felt lucky to be in the game if they managed to win it.

I really don't have that same recollection.  Not saying they dominated every game, but I don't remember feeling "by and large" that they were holding on for dear life.  

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Honestly, I haven't felt this good about a team since 2008 and I felt better about that team than I did any team since 1988.

By team, do you mean "this roster" or "the organization".  I don't feel good about this roster.  I feel "good" about certain aspects of the organization, e.g., the focus on the prospect pipeline (which is obviously better than any I can remember).  But not everything is rosy, imo.  Jury remains out on Hakstol and Hextall's track record beyond the prospect pipeline is less than stellar.

 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Maybe I don't think they're going to win a cup, but it feels like the organization has it's head in the right place again.  Like we're going to get a good competitive team for a good long while... unless the GM goes completely bonkers like Homer did in 2012.  

Or unless the prospects and picks don't turn out as good as expected.

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31 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The flip side of a middling team "getting up" to play a "good" team is that the "good" teams can have a tendency to overlook "lesser" teams.

Completely agree.  I do think some teams have played down to the Flyers.  Much like the Flyers have played down to "lesser" competition.  And that gets back to talent.  Do you have enough talent on the team to overcome "playing down" to a lesser team?

 

31 minutes ago, radoran said:

When you have a team that has been 6th, 5th and 6th in the division the past three years and are again in the lower depths of the division - with a great  deal of the same roster - that's probably a better indicator of where they stack up than a "good game" against a "good team."

Totally fair.  Particularly troublesome since, imo, they should have made strides this year to overcome some of the weaknesses that have plagued them in the past.  Still, many of the same issues persist.  Being the case, what does that portend for the future?

 

31 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Remember when losing 4-3 to a Cup finalist was a "good indicator"?

 

That was three years ago.  

 

:bonkingheadonwall:

Only another three years!

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6 minutes ago, vis said:

 Part of being outmatched is not playing a full 60 minutes, not being mentally strong or making mistakes the other team doesn't. 

 

To me, that  isn't a "talent" issue per se.  That feels more like a coaching issue to me.  While I get what you're saying about this team's core having had these issues for a while, I'll also point out that this core has been without what I would consider to be a strong coach in that regard for 6 years now.  The years they did have under Laviolette was also a bit chaotic and unfocused, but in a very different way.  It was basically when they on the fly rebuild began and it featured the loss of their captain to a career ending injury.  Jagr was there to help hold it together and that helped immensely, but so was Bryzgalov and that didn't help jack.  

 

Maintaining the focus and the mental state of a team.  That's the kind of thing Lavvy had a great feel for.  When to reign his guys in, when to encourage them vs. when to chew them out, when to slow things down.  A good coach isn't all systems and strategy, he's also got a handle on the mental and emotional state of his team minute to minute. Homer fired Laviolette just as his new core were entering the phase of their careers when they could realistically be counted on to execute in those ways.  

 

6 minutes ago, vis said:

Which raises another question.  To what extent will this current core be here and effectively contributing in the future?  What's the window you're thinking about?

 

None of us has a crystal ball, but the way Giroux has excelled in his shift to wing is a good indication that he's got a decent amount left in him.  Everyone assumed that because the last two years were so down, that he and Jake were on their last legs, but even setting the injury aside, I truly saw the team playing an ultra-conservative style under Hakstol those two years because the defense was just so utterly horrible and the goalies backstopping them questionable at best.  

 

Now the defense is vastly improved and it's only just beginning to get where it's going and that's a major reason I feel good about going forward.  The core though?  Really tough to say.  I'm guessing 4 years at the outside for Giroux, Jake and Simmer. and that's IF they keep playing smart and keep up with Jagr style conditioning in the off season. 

 

The bright side is that in 3-4 years, I don't see them being the core any more and that's one of the things that's got me feeling good.

6 minutes ago, vis said:

I really don't have that same recollection.  Not saying they dominated every game, but I don't remember feeling "by and large" that they were holding on for dear life.  

 

Part of it was just the style of play at the time.  Trap based clutch and grab hockey meant that any team that was focused on it's forwards (which the Flyers were from '94- well, now really) was at a disadvantage.  By putting their chips on Lindros and LeClair, the Flyers were playing into the hands of teams like the Devils and the Redwings (and the rest of the league that tried to copy them).  The year and a half under Neilson, where they adopted a similar mind set and spent a lot of time without Lindros and hence had to work on NOT leaning on him so much was their closest to being an excellent cohesive team in that stretch IMHO.  

 

6 minutes ago, vis said:

By team, do you mean "this roster" or "the organization".  I don't feel good about this roster.  I feel "good" about certain aspects of the organization, e.g., the focus on the prospect pipeline (which is obviously better than any I can remember).  But not everything is rosy, imo.  Jury remains out on Hakstol and Hextall's track record beyond the prospect pipeline is less than stellar.

 

I actually feel very good about most of this roster.   

 

Weise, Lehtera, Leier, Filppula, MacDonald, Manning... do I feel great about them?  No. I kinda hate them.  But they're temps.  They're place holders as far as i'm concerned and I believe as far as Hextall is concerned.  They're not here for the long haul.  It's hard or me to get mad about the overall direction of the team because of them because I know they're not part of the overall direction of the team.  With any luck Leier is the only one we'll see more than a few games from as soon as next year.  In two years, I don't expect to see any of them in Orange and Black ever again.  

6 minutes ago, vis said:

Jury remains out on Hakstol and Hextall's track record beyond the prospect pipeline is less than stellar.

 

Well yes... because let's face it, that's been damn near impossible for them to do anything about with the "capocalypse" Homer left them.  However, Hextall's ability to unload waste players with bad contracts has been utterly phenomenal and that can't be overstated.  

 

What I'll add to this is that as far as Free Agents go, there haven't been many worth the effort even if they'd have had the cap room.  

 

Who was that scoring LW that Giroux and Jake needed that the Flyers should have signed if they'd only had the cap room?  

 

6 minutes ago, vis said:

Or unless the prospects and picks don't turn out as good as expected.

Not so worried about this either.  Some are going to turn out well, others aren't.  That's how it goes.  

The difference is that since drafting JVR, the team's prospect pool has been zilch.  There hasn't been the option of "I hope they pan out" because they didn't exist.  

 

Slowly (and to be fair it did start under Homer) things got better.  Now we're seeing the dividends.  

 

Again, at the end of the day, I'm basing a lot of my optimism on interpretation of what I'm seeing and how to my eyes it looks different than it did before.  It's hard to describe, but I am very optimistic...

 

...and if it helps to not dismiss me, over the past few years, I was the guy saying that Giroux and Jake were still excellent players and that Couturier was already probably the best center on the team and hadn't scratched the surface of what he could be doing for them in terms of numbers.    

 

I may sound like a pollyanna, but I'm not delusional.  

 

 

 

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@King Knut

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

To me, that  isn't a "talent" issue per se.  That feels more like a coaching issue to me.

Bit of both, in my view.  

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

A good coach isn't all systems and strategy, he's also got a handle on the mental and emotional state of his team minute to minute.

How do we know Hakstol doesn't have a good handle on the mental and emotional state of this team?  Sure, he's got some faults.  But maybe he does handle these guys well behind closed doors.  The fact that they bounce back and go on winning streaks is somewhat of an indication that he handles them well, at least emotionally.  Hextall has praised the lack of panic, IIRC.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

However, Hextall's ability to unload waste players with bad contracts has been utterly phenomenal and that can't be overstated.  

I think that "ability" is a bit overstated.  I don't think trading Pronger's contract and Grossmann to Arizona was a stroke of genius that most seem to think.  First, Pronger's contract was structured by Holmgren so that such a trade could be made.  if anything, credit goes to Holmgren.  It would be atrocious if Hextall didn't unload that contract when he did.  He saved Arizona real salary and gave them extra cap hits.  That's a no-brainer for Arizona. 

 

I give more credit to Lecavalier and his agent than Hextall on that trade.  The agent brokered the trade and it was made only because Lecavalier promised the Kings this would be his last season.  Without that, the trade doesn't happen.

 

What other "waste players" with "bad contracts" did he "unload"?

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

What I'll add to this is that as far as Free Agents go, there haven't been many worth the effort even if they'd have had the cap room. 

Yes, Hextall exercised restraint.  It would be criminal if he didn't.  But, as mentioned elsewhere, I don't think the Weise signing was good and guys like Medvedev and Gordon were unnecessary signings.

 

Look, I'm not pessimistic about the team's future at all.  My point at the outset of this long discussion was that the *current roster* is weak and it surprises me, somewhat, that they are within a point of a PO spot.  Hakstol deserves some credit for that.  My point has never been that the future of the team doesn't look good.

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20 hours ago, vis said:

Bit of both, in my view.  

 

I say about 50% coaching. 30% Experience. 20% Talent.  

 

20 hours ago, vis said:

@King Knut

How do we know Hakstol doesn't have a good handle on the mental and emotional state of this team?  Sure, he's got some faults.  But maybe he does handle these guys well behind closed doors.  The fact that they bounce back and go on winning streaks is somewhat of an indication that he handles them well, at least emotionally.  Hextall has praised the lack of panic, IIRC.

 

I think we safely CAN assume it happens behind closed doors because they've gotten slightly better to holding onto leads in the last few weeks.  The problem is that you can't fix a 3rd period collapse behind closed doors until the period's over and the two points are already gone.  In a 7 game playoff series, it's a recipe for a quick exit.  THAT's what I'm concerned about.  He can coach the hell out of them behind doors until the cows come home.  It won't help when they're falling apart and need a coach to call a damn time out and give them some confidence and direction in the moment.  Has that EVER HAPPENED?  I've asked this many places and no one can tell me if Hakstol has ever called a time out.  

 

20 hours ago, vis said:

@King Knut

I think that "ability" is a bit overstated.  I don't think trading Pronger's contract and Grossmann to Arizona was a stroke of genius that most seem to think.  First, Pronger's contract was structured by Holmgren so that such a trade could be made.  if anything, credit goes to Holmgren.  It would be atrocious if Hextall didn't unload that contract when he did.  He saved Arizona real salary and gave them extra cap hits.  That's a no-brainer for Arizona. 

 

Pronger's Contract, Grossman, L. Schenn & VLC.  That was $16million in wasted cap space that he traded for functional players (one of whom is still playing with us) and draft picks.

Not to mention getting a third round pick for Tye McGinn (turned out to be Felix Sandstrom btw) a Gudas, a First (Konecney) and a Third for exiting Coburn and a second for an exiting Timmonen.

 

This is the first season they've had so much as a whiff of cap room and that's only because Patrick isn't likely to collect on a ton of his bonuses.  

 

Looking at the deals that went down in the last three years, I'm not sure what player I'd rather them have signed  in that period that they could have conceivable afforded.  In Hindsight, yeah Grabner would have been great, but no one really saw that coming.  

 

Trades are equally problematic.  Could they have gotten in on the Turris/Duchene deal?  Maybe?  But we didn't need another Center and I don't really want Duchene.

 

I'm eager to hear who they should have focused on and if it was actually predictable ahead of time.  

 

20 hours ago, vis said:

@King Knut

I give more credit to Lecavalier and his agent than Hextall on that trade.  The agent brokered the trade and it was made only because Lecavalier promised the Kings this would be his last season.  Without that, the trade doesn't happen.

 

But also unloaded Luke Schenn's contract and got Weal and a pick back for him...  Did the Agent do that?  That's a very good deal for the Flyers.  

 

20 hours ago, vis said:

@King Knut

Yes, Hextall exercised restraint.  It would be criminal if he didn't.  But, as mentioned elsewhere, I don't think the Weise signing was good and guys like Medvedev and Gordon were unnecessary signings.

 

Medvedev was only unnecessary because of the emergence of guys like Ghost, Gudas.

 

Gordon was a safety net.  A warm body with NHL experience on the PK.  I think signing someone to fit that bill was probably a good idea and at the salary he was making... not sure anyone better was coming to town.  

 

20 hours ago, vis said:

Look, I'm not pessimistic about the team's future at all.  My point at the outset of this long discussion was that the *current roster* is weak and it surprises me, somewhat, that they are within a point of a PO spot.  Hakstol deserves some credit for that.  My point has never been that the future of the team doesn't look good.

 

You see a weak team that is surprisingly only a point out of the playoffs... I see a strong team brimming with potential that only 6 players have managed to truly play up to so far.  

 

I'm actually surprised and depressed that they're not more firmly in a playoff position.  I think they're actually quite good.  Not necessarily a cup contender good, but honestly, they should have at least 8 more points and up to 14 more points than they do.  

 

I see an actual good team playing under it's potential... which is good because so many of them are so young and have no business playing up to their potential yet. I see this team as better at controlling play than any team the Flyers have iced in a long time.  I attribute a great deal of that to Hakstol's systems... which is why i've been reticent to fire him outright, and almost prefer getting him a mentor (like Terry Murray was for Stevens -something he should have had all along) to sharpen up the PK and tell the dweeb when to call a time out and what to say to his foundering guys late in the third.   

 

Maybe it's drinking the Kool Ade as far as you're concerned.

 

The weakest links on this team, I don't even think of as part of the team really.  Weise, Lehtera, Leier, Filppula, Neuvirth, even Elliott who has been mostly positive...  They're fleeting.  They're barely here as far as I'm concerned.  

 

If they're not good enough, I could really care less.  They're not part of the Flyers as I see them.  When I get on Hextall's case it's because they're playing when better options probably exist in the Minors (with the exception of Filppula and Elliott).  

 

 

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57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Has that EVER HAPPENED?  I've asked this many places and no one can tell me if Hakstol has ever called a time out.  

Yes, I am sure it has.

 

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Pronger's Contract, Grossman, L. Schenn & VLC.  That was $16million in wasted cap space that he traded for functional players (one of whom is still playing with us) and draft picks.

Again, no-brainer deal on Pronger.  Glad they got rid of Grossmann, but that's a wash with Gagner coming back (actually, favorable to Arizona given the salary/cap differences between those two).  Hextall couldn't trade Lecavalier until his agent brokered the deal.  Hardly something that was something "phenomenal" by Hextall.

 

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Not to mention getting a third round pick for Tye McGinn (turned out to be Felix Sandstrom btw) a Gudas, a First (Konecney) and a Third for exiting Coburn and a second for an exiting Timmonen.

Your original post lauded Hextall for unloading "waste players" with "bad contracts."  None of the above fall into that category.  Yes, I give him credit for trading expiring UFA contracts for picks (what team doesn't when they are out of the PO hunt?) and finding GMs dumb enough to make those trades.  I give him credit for drafting with those pics.  But those deals are not of the ilk mentioned in your initial post.  Never have I said Hextall didn't deserve credit for that.

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Looking at the deals that went down in the last three years, I'm not sure what player I'd rather them have signed  in that period that they could have conceivable afforded.  In Hindsight, yeah Grabner would have been great, but no one really saw that coming.  

I have not faulted Hextall for moves he didn't make (I don't think there was much out there).  I fault him for the moves he did.

 

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Gordon was a safety net.  A warm body with NHL experience on the PK.  I think signing someone to fit that bill was probably a good idea and at the salary he was making... not sure anyone better was coming to town.  

Gordon was signed on the theory that he would take heat off of Giroux on d-zone faceoffs and the PK.  They forgot that Gordon was slow and, at best, an AHLer.

 

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 I see a strong team brimming with potential that only 6 players have managed to truly play up to so far.  

 

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

The weakest links on this team, I don't even think of as part of the team really.  Weise, Lehtera, Leier, Filppula, Neuvirth, even Elliott who has been mostly positive...  They're fleeting.  They're barely here as far as I'm concerned.  

Again, this is future talk.  I don't think anyone, at least not me, is debating that the future (and I mean in 3-4 years) doesn't look good.  But, as far as this season, and the next 1-2 years?  I'd be surprised to see them much ahead of where they currently are.

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38 minutes ago, vis said:

Yes, I am sure it has.

 

Again, no-brainer deal on Pronger.  Glad they got rid of Grossmann, but that's a wash with Gagner coming back (actually, favorable to Arizona given the salary/cap differences between those two).  Hextall couldn't trade Lecavalier until his agent brokered the deal.  Hardly something that was something "phenomenal" by Hextall.

 

Your original post lauded Hextall for unloading "waste players" with "bad contracts."  None of the above fall into that category.  Yes, I give him credit for trading expiring UFA contracts for picks (what team doesn't when they are out of the PO hunt?) and finding GMs dumb enough to make those trades.  I give him credit for drafting with those pics.  But those deals are not of the ilk mentioned in your initial post.  Never have I said Hextall didn't deserve credit for that.

I have not faulted Hextall for moves he didn't make (I don't think there was much out there).  I fault him for the moves he did.

 

Gordon was signed on the theory that he would take heat off of Giroux on d-zone faceoffs and the PK.  They forgot that Gordon was slow and, at best, an AHLer.

 

 

Again, this is future talk.  I don't think anyone, at least not me, is debating that the future (and I mean in 3-4 years) doesn't look good.  But, as far as this season, and the next 1-2 years?  I'd be surprised to see them much ahead of where they currently are.

 

 

I'm sorry.  I don't think you're being honest any more and that makes it hard to take discussing this seriously.  

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