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brelic

The case for Couturier and the Selke

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Great read, if a bit technical, from Sons of Penn.

 

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If he continues his play, he will definitely be a finalist.... and it would be great for him if he could win it. 

 

 

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Without reading it, I agree.  He's been the team's best overall player.  Though I think Bergeron would win it at this point.  I recall hearing that his line has allowed only one even-strength goal on the season.  Maybe that's changed since I read that (I think as recently as a week ago).

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Two of the three think Couturier will win it this year (the second guy picks Kopitar but thinks Coots will win).

 

 

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Unless he is the clear cut winner, it's unlikely for a first year nominee to win the Selke. 

 

I'd be surprised if he isn't a finalist though,  and even more surprised if he wins it 

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45 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Unless he is the clear cut winner, it's unlikely for a first year nominee to win the Selke. 

 

I'd be surprised if he isn't a finalist though,  and even more surprised if he wins it 

 

Yeah? I honestly think it's his to lose right now. I think either his scoring would need to dry up, or one of the other potentials would need to really bump up their production. As of right now, I have a hard time thinking he's not the clear favorite. He's been a beast. Better than Bergeron and Kopitar imo.

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11 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Yeah? I honestly think it's his to lose right now. I think either his scoring would need to dry up, or one of the other potentials would need to really bump up their production. As of right now, I have a hard time thinking he's not the clear favorite. He's been a beast. Better than Bergeron and Kopitar imo.

Because the NHLs award selection is a farce 

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It's practically Coots' destiny to win the Selke.

 

I say he wins it. 

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7 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

It's practically Coots' destiny to win the Selke.

 

I say he wins it. 

 

 

all I want to know is when he will actually be a first line center in the NHL!  Plus, his skating will never allow him to succeed...   

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5 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

all I want to know is when he will actually be a first line center in the NHL!  Plus, his skating will never allow him to succeed...   

 

FWIW I still say his skating is shite. But he has found a way.

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On 1/11/2018 at 3:35 PM, brelic said:

Great read, if a bit technical, from Sons of Penn.

 

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If he continues his play, he will definitely be a finalist.... and it would be great for him if he could win it. 

 

 

 

I don't think there's any question that he's the front runner at this point.  The biggest thing going against him might be just how much he's scoring.   In many ways he's actually been a better defensive forward than the finalists above him for several years.  But it's not just about that.  

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5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't think there's any question that he's the front runner at this point.  The biggest thing going against him might be just how much he's scoring.   In many ways he's actually been a better defensive forward than the finalists above him for several years.  But it's not just about that.  

 

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying he's scoring too many points for Selke consideration?

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13 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying he's scoring too many points for Selke consideration?

 

I think it's possible.  The voting for these things is kooky.  

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5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I think it's possible.  The voting for these things is kooky.  

 

Yeah I guess. But I think you have to have a critical mass of scoring to be even considered. Like a 3rd line checker with hardly any points could be the best defensive center in the game, but not even come close to winning the Selke because he's not enough of a complete player. To me the Selke really is an award for the best 200 foot player.

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1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah I guess. But I think you have to have a critical mass of scoring to be even considered. Like a 3rd line checker with hardly any points could be the best defensive center in the game, but not even come close to winning the Selke because he's not enough of a complete player. To me the Selke really is an award for the best 200 foot player.

 

 

Last year sometime, I did some in depth analyses on the Selke winners/finalists over the past few years vs. Coots over the same period when I was trying to explain why he actually had sort of already "arrived", especially in comparison to the so called "elite" two way forwards of the league.   With the exception of one or two guys (who didn't win either) Couturier was far and away the best Defensive forward with the best scoring... except for the PP.   At even strength he tended to score on par with the guys who always get mentioned in those awards.    He tended to have a few fewer assists than most (because he tended to be paired with guys like Weise I argued).  He wasn't the out and out best, but the PP was easily what kept him from being considered the best.

 

This year, not only is his PP scoring insanely better, but even his even strength scoring is better.  SO much better than the rest of the field (only Kopitar and Toews are even close) that I fear a little that the voters that don't watch him will think that he's scoring at the cost of his D.  For the most part, he's on par to what he's been doing for a few years now.  

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It seems like Kris Draper (2004) or Jere Lehtinen (2003) were the last non-1C to win the award. Since then, it’s pretty much been 1C production required. 

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15 hours ago, brelic said:

It seems like Kris Draper (2004) or Jere Lehtinen (2003) were the last non-1C to win the award. Since then, it’s pretty much been 1C production required. 

 

It should be though. There are plenty of very good defensive forwards. It wouldn't make sense to give Brian Boyle the Selke. The trophy is meant to be about two-way play. In that regard, it seems very hard to give it to anyone but Couturier so far this season. There's always a reasonable chance his scoring will trail off and Bergeron will burn it up for the next few months, but as of right now, Couts has to be the favourite. I recognize my own bias, but the numbers don't lie. 

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On 1/17/2018 at 8:41 AM, elmatus said:

 

It should be though. There are plenty of very good defensive forwards. It wouldn't make sense to give Brian Boyle the Selke. The trophy is meant to be about two-way play. In that regard, it seems very hard to give it to anyone but Couturier so far this season. There's always a reasonable chance his scoring will trail off and Bergeron will burn it up for the next few months, but as of right now, Couts has to be the favourite. I recognize my own bias, but the numbers don't lie. 

 

It is?

 

"The Frank J. Selke Trophy is an annual award given to the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game."

 

Just because the voters have decided that it's about two-way play, doesn't mean that's actually true. Same could be said for the Norris. 

 

And Couturier already has two top-10 finishes in the Selke voting. The fact that there's national-level talk about him as a Selke candidate will help.

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46 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

It is?

 

"The Frank J. Selke Trophy is an annual award given to the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game."

 

Just because the voters have decided that it's about two-way play, doesn't mean that's actually true. Same could be said for the Norris. 

 

And Couturier already has two top-10 finishes in the Selke voting. The fact that there's national-level talk about him as a Selke candidate will help.

 

So would the Flyers making the playoffs. If they don't, he's likely not winning it. 

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3 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

It is?

 

"The Frank J. Selke Trophy is an annual award given to the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game."

 

Just because the voters have decided that it's about two-way play, doesn't mean that's actually true. Same could be said for the Norris. 

 

And Couturier already has two top-10 finishes in the Selke voting. The fact that there's national-level talk about him as a Selke candidate will help.

 

He’s been hosed on the Selke for years now.  My only consolation is that others have been too.  

 

Bergeron gets it in reputation only. 

 

Koivu and Kessler usually ridiculously outperform him on most defensive metrics and often in scoring.  

 

Its kind of a joke. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

So would the Flyers making the playoffs. If they don't, he's likely not winning it. 

 

Rhey should have awards for the players that dragged their teams down and kept them from the playoffs.  

 

Call it the Jori Lehtera opponent appreciation award?

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Patrice Bergeron, a perennial Selke candidate, is having another good season and could be in line for it this year too.

Sean Couturier is having a remarkably close (in some categories, passing Bergeron this year) season to the Boston defensive/offensive center.

 

Take a look at this comparison.

 

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I was always in the corner of Sean Couturier as a player...even when he was being bashed a season or two ago by his own fanbase.

I even went so far in some threads to say I would have traded an offensive type Bolts forward for him.

 

So, for my money, despite him playing for the Flyers, I am very happy for his season, furthermore, I believe this is NOT a fluke, as I expect this kind of season from him, again, ala Bergeron, to be the norm for him.

He very well could be in line for a Selke this year and he would deserve it if he continues his pace.

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Awards

On 1/15/2018 at 9:43 AM, RJ8812 said:

Because the NHLs award selection is a farce 

We all know that they have their favorites... you know the NEXT one's etc... Philly never gets the respect they deserve!!!!!!

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So I was looking at numbers with regards to Voracek, and I found this of note: 

 

Of the top 51 point scorers in the league (51 because there is a tie there), Couturier ranked third in primary points percentage (goals+primary assists), at 84.21%. He had only 14 secondary assists all season. For a guy over 70 points, that's pretty remarkable. For comparison, Giroux came in at 65.6%. Bergeron 80.1, but he also didn't crack the top 50.

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      Rhey should have awards for the players that dragged their teams down and kept them from the playoffs.     Call it the Jori Lehtera opponent appreciation award?
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      It should be though. There are plenty of very good defensive forwards. It wouldn't make sense to give Brian Boyle the Selke. The trophy is meant to be about two-way play. In that regard, it seems very hard to give it to anyone but Couturier so far this season. There's always a reasonable chance his scoring will trail off and Bergeron will burn it up for the next few months, but as of right now, Couts has to be the favourite. I recognize my own bias, but the numbers don't lie. 
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      Without reading it, I agree.  He's been the team's best overall player.  Though I think Bergeron would win it at this point.  I recall hearing that his line has allowed only one even-strength goal on the season.  Maybe that's changed since I read that (I think as recently as a week ago).
    • 1
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      Yeah? I honestly think it's his to lose right now. I think either his scoring would need to dry up, or one of the other potentials would need to really bump up their production. As of right now, I have a hard time thinking he's not the clear favorite. He's been a beast. Better than Bergeron and Kopitar imo.
    • 1
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      Because the NHLs award selection is a farce 
    • 1
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      It's practically Coots' destiny to win the Selke.   I say he wins it. 

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