OccamsRazor Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 hour ago, AJgoal said: So, which of those three guys is going to get 50 assists? Because if one of them isn't, it makes no sense to replace Voracek with them. Why does it have to be one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Right? Or are we not allowed to be positive around here? Positive is fine. Thinking they're going to replace the NHL assists leader with guys not even in the league, that's not positive. It's positively delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 54 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Why does it have to be one? Because of minutes. If it takes more than one, it makes more sense to play them down in the lineup and bolster the scoring overall. Because you're not just looking at his production, but the production that is getting replaced lower in the lineup. So you lose his 60 (trending for 16-18 goals and 90ish points), plus whatever Raffl or whomever that is pushed out of or down the lineup would give you. If two guys can get you 90 points, why not have three guys that can get you 180? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Philly 29, trading Simmonds is based on salary cap reality. He will be 30 and looking for big$ $ and a long term deal, so 3 years from now we have G, Voracek and Simmonds making 8 or 9 million each and they are 33 years old and fading...then you have some of your young guys , like Konecny , Patrick , Sanheim,Meyers , Provo ,etc coming off their rookie contracts and jumping up several million each . Where do you expect to get the $ to pay them? Look at Chicago, they have been stuck with a useless overpaid defenseman Seabrook, because they have him a big long term contract and they can’t do anything now. We have to learn our lessons from the past with long term big dollar contracts to 30 year old players. That’s one of the reasons we have sucked since Homer gave out all those bad contracts. Simmonds is great and you hate to lose him, but we can’t afford him, unless you trade Voracek instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I'd trade Simmonds before Voracek. I'm open to trading both, but I just don't think trading Voracek right now or this summer is the right move. Simmonds should be traded to the highest bidder either at the deadline or this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Would like to but I don't think any will be moved: Lehtera, Weise, Read, McDud Could get a return: Filppula, Manning, Neuvy, And if you get a haul for Simmonds I would do it. I don't think Jake should be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I'm so torn on trading Simmonds. He is much more than a PP power forward. He's a heart and soul guy. He wears the A. He does a ton for the community. And he has his teammates' backs. But I get the argument that overpaying him at 30 will give us headaches and cap problems 3-4 years down the road. I don't agree that he will get in the $8M range. He has reached exactly 60 points twice. That's not worth $8M a year. Put another way, do you think JVR is worth $8M a year? They have very similar numbers. JVR has topped 60 points twice (62, 61). JVR (30, 29, 27 goals) and Simmonds (32, 31, 29, 28) have scored goals at a similar pace. Simmer at 0.30 gpg, JVR at 0.32 gpg. But in the end, both are complementary players. I'd offer Simmonds $6M for 4-5 years. That would still be overpayment by year 3, I'm guessing. I do think the Flyers should do what they can, within reason, to keep a heart and soul guy on the team. You win with players like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Realistically, I think the only player on the move at the deadline will be Filppula. The writing's on the wall - demoted to 4th line minutes to see if Patrick and Laughton can handle the load. It seems like they can - and the next few weeks will really give Hexy a better picture. If they keep playing well, move Filppula for whatever you can get, and bring up Vecchione. Or, more realistically - and kind of vomit-inducing - they may just cobble together a 4th line with spare parts, including Weise. Weise/Lehtera/Leier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Can we ship out Lappy by the deadline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Right? Or are we not allowed to be positive around here? LOL because thinking positive will replace a 50pt assist season thus far. So getting rid of VOrachek because there are several guys that can replace his production. So you rather trade away a guy who is as good as several players? So those players half to pick up for the lack of production instead of adding to it??? GREAT LOGIC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 21 hours ago, Philly29 said: So you rather trade away a guy who is as good as several players? Calm down. I wouldn't trade him to just trade him....it would be for a very return....and maybe for a player who is close to being NHL ready. 50 points to replace isn't unheard of and who knows Flyers have some talented kids who may just be able to do it. And yeah it is great logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Clam down. I wouldn't trade him to just trade him....it would be for a very return....and maybe for a player who is close to being NHL ready. 50 points to replace isn't unheard of and who knows Flyers have some talented kids who may just be able to do it. And yeah it is great logic. Ouch... I'm not saying trading Voracek is necessarily a bad idea. I've mentioned before how I have a hard time understanding what makes him successful. Yet he is successful -- very very successful. Granted, he isn't normally this productive, but it would be silly to think we have anyone in the pool who can replace his production. Very few players in the league can replace his production this year. Nevermind someone who isn't even an NHL regular yet. I'm with you. I honestly think Voracek is very squarely in the 'value with never be higher' category at the moment. That said, he has been this good before. If he can make this a consistent thing somehow, there are very few players league wide who are worth that. If he keeps it up, he'll end the year at 80 some assists and 12-15 goals. That's elite caliber. Put another way, it's far more likely that no one in our current stable will ever have that many assists in a season. That's how effective he's been. How he's managing to pull it off will probably always elude me. All I know is, the last thing I want right now is for any other team to have the league leader in assists on their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, elmatus said: Ouch... I'm not saying trading Voracek is necessarily a bad idea. I've mentioned before how I have a hard time understanding what makes him successful. Yet he is successful -- very very successful. Granted, he isn't normally this productive, but it would be silly to think we have anyone in the pool who can replace his production. Very few players in the league can replace his production this year. Nevermind someone who isn't even an NHL regular yet. I'm with you. I honestly think Voracek is very squarely in the 'value with never be higher' category at the moment. That said, he has been this good before. If he can make this a consistent thing somehow, there are very few players league wide who are worth that. If he keeps it up, he'll end the year at 80 some assists and 12-15 goals. That's elite caliber. Put another way, it's far more likely that no one in our current stable will ever have that many assists points in a season. That's how effective he's been. How he's managing to pull it off will probably always elude me. All I know is, the last thing I want right now is for any other team to have the league leader in assists on their roster. Made a slight tweak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, RJ8812 said: Can we ship out Lappy by the deadline? Hopefully Hakstol is part of that package.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, elmatus said: Granted, he isn't normally this productive, but it would be silly to think we have anyone in the pool who can replace his production. Yeah they said the same thing about Nick Foles replacing Wentz. It can happen. He is having a good year. Sure but last year he finished with just 41 assist. 44 the year before so 60 point guys are not irreplaceable. It can be done. But it could take some experimenting to find out who it could be. But many said Coots is nothing more than a 3rd line center. And now he leads the team in goals with 27. You just have to not live in fear and think outside the box. Like i said it would have to be for a nice haul. I don't want to trade him for Matt Ellison and a 3rd ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 On 04/02/2018 at 3:20 PM, Philly29 said: I am so sick and tired of seeing these "trade Simmonds" posts / threads. You find a way to keep him, you sign him to his contract, you trade some one else idc what scrub or scrubs you trade off. Even if you half to give away a few lower end picks to trade away the wasted cap space you find a way to keep Simmonds as well as Giroux and Vorachek Simmonds is going to be turning 30. For power forwards, that number usually represents the age they start to decline at and the decline is usually steep and fast. On top of it, because of the style of game that Simmonds plays, when you hit that age of 30, injuries really begin to happen and they aren't the game or two variety either. They usually end up being weeks at a time. As a long term fan of the team, I still remember when a 27 year old Rick Tocchet started getting injuries (I remember his groin, his shoulders and his knees) and he ended up having to change his game as a result. He had a 109 point season as a 29 year old and then his scoring went down noticeably every year after that. I like Simmonds, but the fact is, the Flyers are a rebuilding club. The rebuild is close to being complete, but Simmonds won't be effective when they're ready to compete for a Cup. That's why you move him. You move him so that he gets a chance to compete for a Cup while he's effective and because teams will pay a big ransom for a guy like him. Also, don't forget that the Flyers have some serious prospects that play a heavy game like Simmonds (Ratcliffe, Allison), plus, they have an opportunity to draft a Simmonds-type player this summer. They'll be alright if they move big Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Nobody really wants to see Simmonds traded, he is the only old school Flyer we have, but if we get 2 top young NHL ready players and a draft pick, you have to make the deal. Our rebuild would be sped up big time. Hopefully this deal would work out as good as the Carter and Richards deals worked out for us. Imagine, Frost, Radcliffe, Allison and Rubstov, plus two players we get for Simmonds , the first rounder we get for Simmonds ,plus two first rounders we have in this draft. Not to mention Sanheim,Morin, Meyers and Hart. In two years our team would be stacked.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Keep #9,11,14,17,19,53,93. The rest can go. Simmons and Vorachek are the only forwards with skill and size. Giroux is one dimensional, really he can't check his hat, and he can fetch a lot. The Cup window is still 3 or 4 years out. I have zero interest finishing as a second wildcard. Would much rather be in the draft lottery with a big cap space for a couple more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 TRADE EVERYONE...TRADES! TRADES!! TRADES!!! TRAAAAAADESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRADE EVEYONE THE INFALLIBLE LOGIC OF FLYERS FANS DRIVING ME FING BAT **** MAD HAHAHAHAHAHA YESSSS TRADE EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 21 minutes ago, Philly29 said: TRADE EVERYONE...TRADES! TRADES!! TRADES!!! TRAAAAAADESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRADE EVEYONE THE INFALLIBLE LOGIC OF FLYERS FANS DRIVING ME FING BAT **** MAD HAHAHAHAHAHA YESSSS TRADE EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like you need a break. Eagles won it all, go down and enjoy the fun...step away from the keyboard for a moment. Stress is a killer. The Flyers could be a mess for another year or more. Many can't handle the rebuild process. Not all teams can retool as quick as the Eagles did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Clam down. Poor clam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 previous posts are comic gold. thanks everyone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: Poor clam HAHA OOOOps! fixed!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/3/2018 at 3:38 PM, Pucked in the head said: We desperately need a proven veteran dman!!!!! I really don't think we do unless the Flyers are making a run this year. WHich if they are, I say someone like Oduya. But then what? are they gonna sit Manning? MacDonald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 20 hours ago, flyer4ever said: Keep #9,11,14,17,19,53,93. The rest can go. Simmons and Vorachek are the only forwards with skill and size. Giroux is one dimensional, really he can't check his hat, and he can fetch a lot. The Cup window is still 3 or 4 years out. I have zero interest finishing as a second wildcard. Would much rather be in the draft lottery with a big cap space for a couple more years. The Cup Window is cracked open now... there's a slight draft and a whiff of fresh air and just gets wider over the next 3-4 years. No need to sell the farm to buy that missing piece yet. Giroux is a key part of everything. I hate to say it because of his contract but Jake is too and I don't think that will change dramatically for either in the next 3 years, at least not due to aging alone. Simmonds is the tough one. We're probably not going to resign him because he will probably get a stupid contract from someone that is more than he will be worth, but TOTALLY something he deserves so he should absolutely take it. So I say if they market's up on Simmer now, you get some good stuff for him. Gives you a year to figure out how to play without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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