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hobie

Trade Deadline

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What does TO need, a d-man, a center....

 

Dreger keeps saying that there is considerable interest in Bozak so is TO in a position to be able to trade a center?

 

Most of the media seems to think TO needs an upgrade on d but then again what team doesn't? I don't think we need more depth on d Borgman and Holl in the minors are probably as good as any depth available d-men and if they become needed they will gain more experience.

 

I think TO is reasonably set on the wing with Sosh and Leivo and more depth in the A. Again goal is in pretty good shape with Sparks and Pickard having awesome seasons in the A.

 

I don't think TO will or should trade Bozak, I'd prefer he 'd be demoted to the 4th line with Leo, Leo has looked far better on the 4th and I'm sure Bozak will as well. Nylander should become a center as his game both offensively and defensively is improving as the season wears on.

 

I'm hearing Ariz. might be shopping Domi who had a great 1st year but hasn't been close to that player for the last 2 years. Ariz. could use a goalie and TO has 2 superior goalies in the A so maybe something can be worked out? TO needs another Domi and he would probably benefit playing with TO's centers.

 

New lines if TO could get Domi:

 

JVR/Matthews/Hyman- Hyman should be a RW as he shots right

Marleau/Nylander/Brown- 2 defensively responsible wingers to play with a defensively questionable center

Domi/Kadri/Marner- love Kadri but I don't think he's that good as a d center, maybe he'd be even better as a winger 

Sosh/Bozak/Leo- Leivo or Sosh, Sosh is probably a better all round player

Leivo

 

I figure it will cost Kappy in any trade for Domi, plus more like an AHL goalie and a 2nd. 

   

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I'd say some fine tuning more than anything else. Nothing too dramatic. They still need help defensively if they want to play with the big boys. I can't picture Bozak being on the 4th line. What are the Leafs paying Bozak anyway? He's a prime candidate to be traded.

 

The team shouldn't be wasting money on 4th liners.  High-end talent wins championships and the Leafs still need help on D, even if it's just a rock solid guy you could pair with Rielly or Gardiner. Doesn't have to be an all-star.  :)

 

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On 2/7/2018 at 2:47 PM, hobie said:

What does TO need, a d-man, a center....

 

What do you think the team could fetch for JVR and Bozak?

 

I think the Leafs could afford to part with both if it means that we bring back a defenceman that can be a #1 guy, someone that can either score 15+ goals from the blueline and be a powerplay terror (something which Rielly and Gardiner seem incapable of doing) or someone that will smother opposition players and shadow them like a prime mid-20's Zdeno Chara would. That's what this team needs.  :)

 

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3 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

What do you think the team could fetch for JVR and Bozak?

 

I think the Leafs could afford to part with both if it means that we bring back a defenceman that can be a #1 guy, someone that can either score 15+ goals from the blueline and be a powerplay terror (something which Rielly and Gardiner seem incapable of doing) or someone that will smother opposition players and shadow them like a prime mid-20's Zdeno Chara would. That's what this team needs.  :)

 

 

OK, so you think that TO should approach Tampa and see if they'd trade Hedman for JVR and Bozak?

 

Can you think of a #1 d-man that any team would be willing to give up, what team can afford to trade away such player?

 

Hainsey is TO's attempt to find a shutdown d-man, I don't think he's a proper player to be on either the 1st or 2nd pairing, he's a depth or 3rd pairing d-man being paid 2nd pairing money while playing on the 1st pairing. 

 

TO is one of the top scoring teams in the NHL and Rielly and Gardiner have contributed.

 

TO is a very good team that has interesting possibilities both now and into the future so long as management doesn't get antsy. For me Lou has been dropping the ball, signing Martin to a 4 year 10 mil. contract, Marleau to a 3 year 18 mil. + . That's 10 mil. of 75 that TO has committed to and is/will leave TO with little wiggle room to improve except thru internal growth. I'd have preferred TO to look for the internal growth first rather than over commit to FAs before TO would be a sure thing to compete.

 

TO could have addressed needs last summer like resigning Boyle to what he's making now with NJ, Boyle can play almost anywhere in the lineup so he's well worth the 2.7 mil.  NJ is paying him and would have been as valuable to TO. In an ideal world he would have played mostly on the 4th line and that would have been great because it would mean TO's forwards are healthy.

 

We can see that maybe Dermott and Holl are possibly NHL worthy now but because TO signed Hainsey and Polak there wasn't room for these rookies. I think TO should have used this year as a growth year as it's still early in the rebuild.

 

TO doesn't need anything, the talent to compete is there, and I hope TO doesn't make more poorly thought out transactions based on "maybe".

 

I'd like to see TO get quality muscle, a tough, character player  like Wayne Simmonds of Philly a player or 2 like him would be incredibly beneficial both now and into the future. Mostly TO doesn't need any more stupid transactions like trading a 2nd for Boyle then not resigning him. More damage can be done to TO's future right now than improving the team, I don't trust TO's future in Lou's hands. The type of trade I can see TO making would be some massive deal with Montreal for Weber and this type of transaction scares me. 

  

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3 hours ago, hobie said:

OK, so you think that TO should approach Tampa and see if they'd trade Hedman for JVR and Bozak?

 

It would have to be a team that is out of the playoff picture, in desperate need of scoring, and that has a glut of defencemen.  

 

3 hours ago, hobie said:

Can you think of a #1 d-man that any team would be willing to give up, what team can afford to trade away such player?

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have said #1 defenceman, but a defenceman that is #1 at something.  Either someone who can score goals from back there (lots of them) or someone who is going to lead this team in +/- and ice time.  I'd go for either, but a player with a stat line of 82 GP, 0 G, 0 A, +30, 25:00 ATOI would do just nicely. (Slight exaggeration of course lol.)  :)

 

I never feel like we're getting enough from Rielly or Gardiner. Enough to make the playoffs yes, but not enough to win a championship. They accumulate assists (which is nice) but they don't score enough goals like an offensive D-man should. 

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Of course I might be overly critical because they seem to lose every game that I watch this season.  :(

 

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I like Holl and Borgman and Liljegren as the future of the blueline but IMHO this team is built for a deep playoff run and you don't throw kids in to that mix late in the year if at all possible, especially on the blueline. My opinion is a quality top four defender is the only thing this team needs, you are fine down the middle at center, your wingers are great your 4th line is top notch, goalie is set, a puck moving top four defenseman who can QB a power play seems a glaring deficiency, about the only one that I see from theoutside looking in. 

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11 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

I like Holl and Borgman and Liljegren as the future of the blueline but IMHO this team is built for a deep playoff run and you don't throw kids in to that mix late in the year if at all possible, especially on the blueline. My opinion is a quality top four defender is the only thing this team needs, you are fine down the middle at center, your wingers are great your 4th line is top notch, goalie is set, a puck moving top four defenseman who can QB a power play seems a glaring deficiency, about the only one that I see from theoutside looking in. 

 

I like them as well but Holl is 26 years old and he's spent 4 years in the minors prior to this season so maybe he needed a chance to make the team, he won't get one if TO signs supposed experienced d-man to expensive contracts as some sort of deliberate attempt to go far in the playoffs.

 

TO made the playoffs last year on talent and youthful exuberance the year after being the worst team in the NHL. As a rebuilding team TO should be still looking for internal solutions, the Marlies are the best team in the A with the best d so something on that team needs a chance to prove themselves in the NHL, the more the better. The Marlies d is mostly comprised of prospects in the 21 to 24 years of age range so they're due.

 

That's quality on the Marlies and quality is quality whether in the A or NHL. I will say that before this year is done Dermott is going to be better than Hainsey but Hainsey will continue to get more TOI because he's experienced. I think it's more important that players like Dermott, Borgman, Holl and Carrick gain experience by playing quality TOI in the NHL, playing lots in the A only goes so far.

 

Pitts won the Cup last year without a #1 d-man with a d that mostly resembles what TO has this year and we're seeing that TO might have d depth, maybe not #1 depth but quality depth so I don't see why TO needs another d-man. Stop playing Hainsey and Polak, play the youth and TO has a very mobile d where everyone is capable offensively and gaining valuable NHL experience, now.

 

Gardiner and Rielly are both very capable of running a PP at #1 quality but both are streaky, the big shot is nice but I don't think it's necessary as TO's PP was #4 in the NHL last year and around 10th this year. 

 

  

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3 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

Of course I might be overly critical because they seem to lose every game that I watch this season.  :(

 

 

Words are you aware TO is 33-19-5 and until recently had played far more road games than home games?

 

Maybe you shouldn't watch the games, eh.

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Gardiner and Rielly are currently tied at 33 points each which is tied for 14th in the d-man scoring race. They're 2 points behind Ryan Suter, 3 points behind Seth Jones and Karlsson and 4 points behind Hedman and Pietrangelo. No other team has 2 d-men in the top 15, points wise. Offensive/mobile capable d-men TO has and according to the offensive stats TO has 2 #1 quality d-men which no other team can match. In the group of d-men that have scored more than Rielly and Gardiner I doubt TO could trade for them without starting with Nylander or Marner, maybe both.

 

I still feel TO's forwards don't properly support the d, they're not  possession oriented enough because they don't have the jam to get and keep the puck, quality muscle would go a long way to improving this.

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19 hours ago, hobie said:

Words are you aware TO is 33-19-5 and until recently had played far more road games than home games?

 

Yes! :) Although they've played several more games than the teams in front of them and are a notch below the Bruins and Lightning.  

 

19 hours ago, hobie said:

Maybe you shouldn't watch the games, eh.

 

I haven't been because of stupid CBC not broadcasting any!  :bonkingheadonwall:  (Shameless rant crossover lol.)

 

At the beginning of the season, there was a Saturday night game on CBC every week. Then, starting around late December, they started missing every other week. Now it's like they have one game per month. 

 

I could go out to a sports bar and watch it I suppose, and get drunk like a good hockey fan :beer:, maybe buy a pickup truck while I'm at it, but I'd prefer to just be at home and not freeze my testicles off in this -20c winter we've had this year.  (Not so bad lately mind you.) 

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Would you install a gun rack in the back window?

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12 hours ago, hobie said:

Would you install a gun rack in the back window?

 

Of course!  :P

 

deer-pick-up-truck.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Max Domi for who to the Leaf???

 

Maybe one of TO's goalies in the A:

 

Sparks 1.72  GAA  .940  SV%  20W-6L-1OTL

Pickard 1.85 GAA  .931 SV%  16-5

 

plus

 

Borgman or Carrick or Holl on d

                or 

Johnsson or Bracco or Leivo or Sosh at forward

 

any of these 2 assets plus maybe even a 2nd.

 

Not a bad haul for a player who just scored his 4th goal this year and only had 9 last year, probably an over payment. Domi has only had 1 decent year since being in the NHL and like Duclair might be a one year wonder. I just like the idea of TO having a Domi again.

 

Come to think of it maybe Philly could use either of the goalies.

 

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Quote

JVR  has the second most goals (23) on a Leafs team that has won eight of nine and is gearing up for what they hope will be a long playoff run. And yet the pending unrestricted free agent insists he feels no greater security when it comes to the looming trade deadline. 

“You’ve seen different trades over the years and you realize that no one’s safe ever no matter what so, with that in mind, it kind of eases your mind, knowing that it’s really outside your control,” van Riemsdyk said. “Obviously, there’s a degree of humanity in it, because we all are human so some of that can creep in sometimes, but at the end of the day it’s out of your control.”

 

I think JVR might welcome a trade especially because of how TO is using him this year and because TO hasn't made any attempt to resign him.

 

Quote

One thing that may give van Riemsdyk some pause is his ice time. Only Dominic Moore played fewer minutes than JvR in Monday’s win against the league-leading Tampa Bay Lightning. Down the stretch in the third period Leo Komarov replaced van Riemsdyk on a line with Tyler Bozak and Connor Brown.

 

JvR’s ice time has dipped to 14:39 per game this season, which is down from 15:53 last year. The 28-year-old was vague when asked if he’s met his personal expectations for this season.

 

“I wouldn’t do it if we were behind,” Leafs coach Mike Babcock explained. “We were ahead and there’s no one better in our zone without the puck and getting it out along the wall, getting on the forecheck, making sure the other team doesn’t score than Leo.”

 

 

Quote

 

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I get that Babs wants to use the right players for the right tasks but I had also hoped that Babs might be able to work with JVR to make him more vital in most situations. It is being said that JVR isn't prepared to give TO a hometown discount on his next contract and I understand this because he doesn't feel warm and fuzzy about TO.

 

I hope TO can trade him to address another need that will ultimately make TO no worse or even better at the trade deadline.

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10 hours ago, hobie said:

I think JVR might welcome a trade especially because of how TO is using him this year and because TO hasn't made any attempt to resign him.

 

I think his weak defensive play has him in Babcock's doghouse. How else can you explain the low minutes? I think he has the worst +/- on the team doesn't he? 

 

JVR is a player that could fetch a veteran defenceman for this team. How about Erik Karlsson from Ottawa? His stock has never been lower and he wants out of Ottawa.  :)

 

This is an elite defenceman that is "available". Most of them aren't. With all due respect to Rielly and Gardiner, they're not Karlsson nor will they ever be and the Leafs aren't going to win anything if those are our top two guys.  

Edited by WordsOfWisdom

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Karlsson for JVR, I wouldn't do it if I was Ottawa.

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8 hours ago, hobie said:

Karlsson for JVR, I wouldn't do it if I was Ottawa.

 

:facepalm:

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9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I think his weak defensive play has him in Babcock's doghouse. How else can you explain the low minutes? I think he has the worst +/- on the team doesn't he? 

 

JVR is a player that could fetch a veteran defenceman for this team. How about Erik Karlsson from Ottawa? His stock has never been lower and he wants out of Ottawa.  :)

 

This is an elite defenceman that is "available". Most of them aren't. With all due respect to Rielly and Gardiner, they're not Karlsson nor will they ever be and the Leafs aren't going to win anything if those are our top two guys.  

 

I'm pretty sure if Karlsson was up for trade, every team in the league would top a JVR for #65.

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12 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

This is an elite defenceman that is "available". Most of them aren't. With all due respect to Rielly and Gardiner, they're not Karlsson nor will they ever be and the Leafs aren't going to win anything if those are our top two guys.  

 

The same thoughts were held about Coffey with Edmonton during the '80s,  supposedly he needed to learn to defend before Edmonton would become a viable Cup contender.

 

Gardiner and Rielly aren't Coffey, never will be but I think if Babs gave them more freedom TO might benefit. Babs only sees teams being successful via defense, Edmonton won because of their offense.

 

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'm pretty sure if Karlsson was up for trade, every team in the league would top a JVR for #65.

 

You think so, how many teams have that many assets in roster players that they could trade away and not result in a worse team after getting Karlsson. TO would have a hard time replacing JVR's perennial 30 goals and I'm sure that Ottawa's take from TO wouldn't be confined to JVR only.

 

Trading for Karlsson is going to decimate any team's depth. I would think that Philly would probably have to start with Provorov to top JVR as the marquee trade chip. Would Philly trade a youthful foundation piece in Provorov at 21 for Karlsson at 27. I don't think they would and tho Provorov is going to be a quality top pairing d-man he'll probably never become a Karlsson and Karlsson probably has another 8 quality years left in him.

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25 minutes ago, hobie said:

 

The same thoughts were held about Coffey with Edmonton during the '80s,  supposedly he needed to learn to defend before Edmonton would become a viable Cup contender.

 

Gardiner and Rielly aren't Coffey, never will be but I think if Babs gave them more freedom TO might benefit. Babs only sees teams being successful via defense, Edmonton won because of their offense.

 

 

You think so, how many teams have that many assets in roster players that they could trade away and not result in a worse team after getting Karlsson. TO would have a hard time replacing JVR's perennial 30 goals and I'm sure that Ottawa's take from TO wouldn't be confined to JVR only.

 

Trading for Karlsson is going to decimate any team's depth. I would think that Philly would probably have to start with Provorov to top JVR as the marquee trade chip. Would Philly trade a youthful foundation piece in Provorov at 21 for Karlsson at 27. I don't think they would and tho Provorov is going to be a quality top pairing d-man he'll probably never become a Karlsson and Karlsson probably has another 8 quality years left in him.

 

JVRs perennial 30 goals???? He'd have to score 30 at least more than once to even hint he's a perennial 30 goal scorer. In 9 seasons his high is 30. Once. When you factor in he brings nothing to the game other than goals (yes goals are important),  someone who can score AND find their own end or play physical has more value. Say a Wayne Simmonds. Who's also scored 30 more than once. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

JVRs perennial 30 goals???? He'd have to score 30 at least more than once to even hint he's a perennial 30 goal scorer. In 9 seasons his high is 30. Once. When you factor in he brings nothing to the game other than goals (yes goals are important),  someone who can score AND find their own end or play physical has more value. Say a Wayne Simmonds. Who's also scored 30 more than once. 

 

 

 

I expected this and I would willingly trade JVR for Simmonds but the difference in offensive stats probably has more to do with who Simmonds has played with,  JVR's center Bozak for the last 5 years. Circumstances can mitigate results.

 

I think for Ottawa it's going to be about the prospects and and picks where JVR or Simmonds would be traded for more.

 

I think it would cost TO Marner or Nylander plus and Philly Provorov plus because Ottawa is into cost cutting. 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, hobie said:

 

I expected this and I would willingly trade JVR for Simmonds but the difference in offensive stats probably has more to do with who Simmonds has played with,  JVR's center Bozak for the last 5 years. Circumstances can mitigate results.

 

I think for Ottawa it's going to be about the prospects and and picks where JVR or Simmonds would be traded for more.

 

I think it would cost TO Marner or Nylander plus and Philly Provorov plus because Ottawa is into cost cutting. 

 

 

 

If JVR had Simmonds drive he'd likely be a perennial 40 goal scorer. He's got great NHL size and skill, and plays like a marshmallow. 

 

And yes, if I'm trading Karlsson, it's more likely for prospects/picks/youth. Not JVR.

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With the

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trading F Nikita Soshnikov to St. Louis in return for a draft pick, Toronto now drops down to 49 contracts giving them a little more flexibility leading up to the trade deadline.

 

Making room for Domi.

 

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    • 1
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        I'm pretty sure if Karlsson was up for trade, every team in the league would top a JVR for #65.
    • 1
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        I'm not saying he isn't up for trade. I'm not saying the Leafs couldn't make that trade. I'm saying he isn't being traded for JVR...unless you're including Marner and Nylander and a 1st with him.   A rookie and a draft pick? What rookie are the Leafs going to offer Ottawa for the best puck moving defenceman the NHL has seen since Paul Coffey? In his prime. Who would be the Leafs top scoring defenceman even though he's played on a tire fire all season long, and that if he played for a good team you could probably add 15 points that would make him your leading scorer. Travis Dermott and his 7 points? And a mid to late 1st? Like the previous JVR offer, 30 NHL teams would top that in a heartbeat.   Ottawa isn't trading him to try and help the Leafs. They're trading him to try help Ottawa.
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      @WordsOfWisdom @flyercanuck   Good post, flyercanuck...although to be fair, I think Words was being a bit cheeky anyways!    He may have a point though that Karlsson may not net Ottawa his FULL value, but it definitely will take more than JVR, and unless the Leafs are gonna part with a young blue chip type player, a deal like that isn't getting done.   There are 30 teams that would love to have Karlsson (hell even the Seattle Kraken who just applied want him!  ), but not everyone will have the payroll or the picks/prospects necessary to pry him away from the Sens.   Even if Ottawa doesn't get absolute complete value for Karlsson, his asking price will and should be, high....not to mention the $10M+ they likely will have to fork over when his contract comes due...
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      TSN is speculating that JVR might be traded, his icetime the last 3 games 12:50, 11:44 and 10:10. He's approaching 3rd line minutes which seems the opposite of what a team would do if it was trying to maximize his trade value.   I can remember RC using JVR to kill penalties, Babs will only use him late in games if TO is trying to catch up but never in any defensive situation.   I'd be shocked if TO tried to resign him and I'd be even more shocked if he would resign with TO.

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