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Flyers trade deadline: Do we need a goalie?


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On 2/13/2018 at 12:10 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Michael Raffl has flown under the radar as one of the best third-line wingers in the league

Michael Raffl has flown under the radar as one of the best third-line wingers in the league

 

http://sonsofpenn.com/michael-raffl-has-flown-under-the-radar-as-one-of-the-best-third-line-wingers-in-the-league/

 

 

Yet no one here likes the guy.

It's unbelievable really, The guy is always around the puck, is faster than you think, he'll hit a guy, he's strong on the puck, he's smart.

His only deficiency in my eyes is his finishing ability. That's it, the dude can kill penalties.  He's a swiss army knife or as @Podein25 says "a good hockey player"

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18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Nick Foles didn't exactly inspire either in his 1st two start this past season

He was good against the Giants, which was his first start, plus he came in to the Rams game and moved the team against that defense.

Not a good comparison imo.

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11 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Nick Foles was actually quite good when he first stepped in to relieve Mike Vick all those years ago.  He demonstrated almost all of what we saw in the playoffs and super bowl with the possible exeption of the precision long ball.  People forget that

 

He was pretty decent. I'm talking recently........his play is why everyone jumped off the bandwagon he was flat out terrible.

 

And why they become the underdogs.

 

Stolie is suppose to be playing come March Hexy may be praying he can help at some point i think that would be crazy!

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13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

If your gut is thinking those couple of players may include Filppula, Lehtera and or Wieise and maybe Manning, i'm all on board and I'll even bring the beer.  

 

Unfortunately i think it will not i hope i'm wrong. I don't want nothing crazy to go down.

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5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He was good against the Giants, which was his first start

 

 

What he was ok he missed quite a few plays.....and it was the Gnats so yeah not a good comparison they were a decimated team...

 

and looked like hot garbage against the Raiders....and struggled against a Cowboy squad too and why Pederson pulled him...

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He was pretty decent. I'm talking recently........his play is why everyone jumped off the bandwagon he was flat out terrible.

 

And why they become the underdogs.

 

Stolie is suppose to be playing come March Hexy may be praying he can help at some point i think that would be crazy!

 

Yeah I mean Elliott’s supposed to be back in March, so not sure Stolie’s gonna help much. 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Unfortunately i think it will not i hope i'm wrong. I don't want nothing crazy to go down.

 

Agreed.  They don’t need crazy and they don’t need to lose any real prospects.  Golbourne I could live without.  But I wouldn’t give up much more at This point.

 

If Morin goes someplace I may just quit  

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1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Yet no one here likes the guy.

It's unbelievable really, The guy is always around the puck, is faster than you think, he'll hit a guy, he's strong on the puck, he's smart.

His only deficiency in my eyes is his finishing ability. That's it, the dude can kill penalties.  He's a swiss army knife or as @Podein25 says "a good hockey player"

 

I’m completely on the Raffl bus.  He’s incredibly valuable.  He’s a perfect third liner and can move up if needed.  

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50 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Yeah I mean Elliott’s supposed to be back in March, so not sure Stolie’s gonna help much. 

 

Well you know how they love to rush guys back.

 

So we need all hands on deck!

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And from our neighborly rumor mill known as Ecklund ......  here is his latest rumor (cough...cough)  Don't kill the messenger....aka me :)

 

On The Flyers goaltending...

Hearing today the Flyers have had some talks with Arizona regarding Antti Raanta, but the price is high and the Coyotes would like to bring him back as well.. Lehner is way too expensive and the Flyers aren't in love with his game...Chances are they make a move for Chad Johnson or Antti Niemi....

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22 hours ago, King Knut said:

Until I hear some excuse like he was high on cocaine or windex or something, I'm not buying it at all.  He looked to have very quick reflexes, but he was fundamentally unsound in the position in a way that can't survive in the NHL.

 

enter a valid excuse:  i watched the highlights, and imo his issues looked like simple nerves to me.  a goalie playing well and confidently is reading plays and anticipating, on the balls of his feet and kind of "pre-acting™".  he is literally ahead of the game in front of him.  a goalie that is struggling, especially with a nerves kind of issue, is guessing and reacting.  he is playing catch-up, and the most noticeable symptom there is bad positioning.  a good stance, stumbling/frantic movement (goalie pads and skates are not the most forgiving things when you are freaking out), and distinctly bad positioning are the hallmarks of a guy that is NOT comfortable and is fighting his own read of what he sees in front of him.  

 

i think ice hockey goalie is a far more zen position than people who haven't played the position know.  training, technique, flexibility, reaction times, etc are all really important.  what determines if a goalie is going to get the job done on a given night, though, comes down to whether or not he is "feeling" it.  like, actually feeling the game, knowing on a subconscious level what will happen over the next 3 seconds.  your brain keeps track of every opposing player, you have a list of the puck carrier's possible passing options, notice defensive lapses as they happen and adjust to cover.  on a really good night, you'll even keep a mental status of where opposing players are looking at any given moment, what their capabilities/options would be if they received the puck right now.  you're prepared for everything and surprised by nothing and pucks keep hitting you in the chest.  on the other hand, not feeling it, none of that information is available, the patterns in front of you are unfathomable.  the only thing you can do is guess and play catch-up, nothing is going to be routine or easy and everything is going to go around you.  the game either talks to you and you get ahead of it, or it doesn't and you don't and you're gonna have a bad night.

 

anyway, that's what his outings looked like to me.  i don't know a thing about the guy, no idea if he's worth more time/effort or not.  those two games, though, looked very much a guy that was completely freaked out, not a guy that didn't know how to play the position.  a few weeks of NHL practice and i don't see anything that ensures his next outing will be as bad.  if he gets another.  not that he should, but I don't think he shouldn't.  :)

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41 minutes ago, aziz said:

 

enter a valid excuse:  i watched the highlights, and imo his issues looked like simple nerves to me.  a goalie playing well and confidently is reading plays and anticipating, on the balls of his feet and kind of "pre-acting™".  he is literally ahead of the game in front of him.  a goalie that is struggling, especially with a nerves kind of issue, is guessing and reacting.  he is playing catch-up, and the most noticeable symptom there is bad positioning.  a good stance, stumbling/frantic movement (goalie pads and skates are not the most forgiving things when you are freaking out), and distinctly bad positioning are the hallmarks of a guy that is NOT comfortable and is fighting his own read of what he sees in front of him.  

 

i think ice hockey goalie is a far more zen position than people who haven't played the position know.  training, technique, flexibility, reaction times, etc are all really important.  what determines if a goalie is going to get the job done on a given night, though, comes down to whether or not he is "feeling" it.  like, actually feeling the game, knowing on a subconscious level what will happen over the next 3 seconds.  your brain keeps track of every opposing player, you have a list of the puck carrier's possible passing options, notice defensive lapses as they happen and adjust to cover.  on a really good night, you'll even keep a mental status of where opposing players are looking at any given moment, what their capabilities/options would be if they received the puck right now.  you're prepared for everything and surprised by nothing and pucks keep hitting you in the chest.  on the other hand, not feeling it, none of that information is available, the patterns in front of you are unfathomable.  the only thing you can do is guess and play catch-up, nothing is going to be routine or easy and everything is going to go around you.  the game either talks to you and you get ahead of it, or it doesn't and you don't and you're gonna have a bad night.

 

anyway, that's what his outings looked like to me.  i don't know a thing about the guy, no idea if he's worth more time/effort or not.  those two games, though, looked very much a guy that was completely freaked out, not a guy that didn't know how to play the position.  a few weeks of NHL practice and i don't see anything that ensures his next outing will be as bad.  if he gets another.  not that he should, but I don't think he shouldn't.  :)

 

Great explanation.

 

Lyon doesn't have goalie coach in LV so i can imagine getting his first game having the coach tweak some stuff maybe last minute and still in the process of getting it down on top of jitters is a recipe for disaster!!! Which is what transpired. 

 

So the good thing is has has looked real good after he was sent back and the best we can hope for is if given the chance again he looks better and more comfortable and being good with his technique and positional sound good a long ways to playing well.

 

Because for one all the stop gap guys i would want them to acquire all sound expensive and Ron doesn't want to pay....so it will more than likely be a lower tier goalie.

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I wouldn't mind the Flyers trading a 2nd rounder for the rights to Valeri Nichushkin....wonder if they would go for that??

 

Maybe throw Jordan Weal in to sweeten it.

 

 

Edit: I just read from Dreger that Stars are looking for center depth after making this proposal. 

 

So would they prefer Filppula instead or would they want him added to it. Some draft compensation would have to be worked out....still Nich is only 22 however in the KHL so it is risky.

 

28 Claude Giroux - 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny
93 Jakub Voracek - 19 Nolan Patrick - 17 Wayne Simmonds
12 Michael Raffl - 21 Scott Laughton - 43 Valeri Nichushkin
15 Jori Lehterä -
51 Valtteri Filppula - 22 Dale Weise

 

Maybe the start of next year.

 

28 Claude Giroux - 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny
93 Jakub Voracek - 19 Nolan Patrick - 17 Wayne Simmonds
21 Scott Laughton - 40 - Misha Vorobyev - 43 Valeri Nichushkin
12 Michael Raffl - 15 Jori Lehterä - 24 - Mike Vecchione

 

 

Thoughts sky is falling comments welcome.

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Yeah, I acknowledged that possibility after the 2nd game. I actually felt like he was overplaying everything. 

 

But thats A LOT of nerves.  How long does it take for him to chill out?  Does he get jittery again if it’s an important game?  

 

I know its it’s a zen position, but there are fundamentals.

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On 2/15/2018 at 6:28 PM, King Knut said:

 

I’m completely on the Raffl bus.  He’s incredibly valuable.  He’s a perfect third liner and can move up if needed.  

 

I like Raffl on the third line. That's not a bad role for him. He beats the heck out of Weise for the same role.

 

But IMO if they need him in the top 6, they have problems.

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4 minutes ago, radoran said:

But IMO if they need him in the top 6, they have problems.

 

I'm with you. That said, having a guy like him who can keep up and contribute when playing with top six players if needed is tremendously important in today's NHL.

 

I remember at one point we had a thread around here talking about him. I still believe what I did then. If Raffl had a better shot, he'd be fantastic top line winger. In my view, that's really the only thing that seems to hold him back. His accuracy and ability to get shots off is moderate at best. Aside from that one thing, he does far more things well than not.

 

I've always liked him. I'm still very surprised he wasn't fished by Vegas. Not that Vegas needs any more help mind you.

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8 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I'm with you. That said, having a guy like him who can keep up and contribute when playing with top six players if needed is tremendously important in today's NHL.

 

I remember at one point we had a thread around here talking about him. I still believe what I did then. If Raffl had a better shot, he'd be fantastic top line winger. In my view, that's really the only thing that seems to hold him back. His accuracy and ability to get shots off is moderate at best. Aside from that one thing, he does far more things well than not.

 

I've always liked him. I'm still very surprised he wasn't fished by Vegas. Not that Vegas needs any more help mind you.

 

He had his 21-goal season in 14-15 when the Flyers were 6th in the division and missed the playoffs.

 

That's pretty much what I mean by "problems".

 

If they can get 10-15 goals and 30 or so points out of him on the third line, that's great. If they need him to play Top 6 winger it's because a better player isn't able to go.

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3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

He had his 21-goal season in 14-15 when the Flyers were 6th in the division and missed the playoffs.

 

That's pretty much what I mean by "problems".

 

If they can get 10-15 goals and 30 or so points out of him on the third line, that's great. If they need him to play Top 6 winger it's because a better player isn't able to go.

 

Again, I hear you and do agree with you 100%. He should be a third line forward. That said, if a top six winger goes down, someone would have to take his spot. Having a guy like Raffl is great. He will never command a bunch of money, but he *can* play in a top six role if needed. 

 

Also, as I mentioned above, Raffl does a lot of things very well. The main thing holding him back is his shooting ability. If somehow he could figure that part out -- which is hugely unlikely at this point obviously -- he would be a top six player for sure.

 

Contending teams have depth. Raffl is a great depth player. He'll never command a bunch of money, but he has the ability to play a very flexible spot in the line up. He's got wheels. He's tenacious and is underrated as a two-way player. He can protect the puck very well and plays the boards better than many. He is capable of anticipating and following elite players like Giroux to get into position. The problem is simply that he doesn't have the finishing ability to put him over the top. Still, that's a lot of things to like.

 

In short, he's a perfect 3rd liner who can punch above his weight for short terms without seeming to be hugely out of place. Yeah, he shouldn't play top six. But if he has to, he can do it at a decent (not elite) level.

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My thoughts? I guess if you are willing to take Mrazek off our hands we could give you our third round pick to do so...:VeryCool:

 

  Truth is a few years ago for half a season Mrazek was actually being considered for the Vezina and then on his birthday (Valentines day of all days) he was CLEARLY hungover, Marchand scored six seconds into the game, it was sloppy, ugly, the Wings won 6-5. On at least two of the goals Mrazek didn't even move. The postgame interview with Osgood after the matinee game he even joked about tipping a few back the night before might not have been a good idea. I along with everyone else thought it was a fluke bad game by a young goalie who had tied one on the night before. Instead it was as if overnight he simply forgot how to play in net at the same level as previous.

  Over the next two years he has been dreadful most of the time with an occasional great game.  Few if any good ones, it is either awful (usually) or great (occasionally). For a year and a half Jimmy Howard has outplayed him at every turn in spite of the Wings trying to hand him the jobMrazek takes one step forward ten steps back. Very frustrating because when he brings it (as he did last night against Nashville) he is solid as can be. I rooted for him, I no longer trust him when he is in net. Take him off our hands, please!

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1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

My thoughts? I guess if you are willing to take Mrazek off our hands we could give you our third round pick to do so...:VeryCool:

 

  Truth is a few years ago for half a season Mrazek was actually being considered for the Vezina and then on his birthday (Valentines day of all days) he was CLEARLY hungover, Marchand scored six seconds into the game, it was sloppy, ugly, the Wings won 6-5. On at least two of the goals Mrazek didn't even move. The postgame interview with Osgood after the matinee game he even joked about tipping a few back the night before might not have been a good idea. I along with everyone else thought it was a fluke bad game by a young goalie who had tied one on the night before. Instead it was as if overnight he simply forgot how to play in net at the same level as previous.

  Over the next two years he has been dreadful most of the time with an occasional great game.  Few if any good ones, it is either awful (usually) or great (occasionally). For a year and a half Jimmy Howard has outplayed him at every turn in spite of the Wings trying to hand him the jobMrazek takes one step forward ten steps back. Very frustrating because when he brings it (as he did last night against Nashville) he is solid as can be. I rooted for him, I no longer trust him when he is in net. Take him off our hands, please!

 

Yeah no thanks we've already had Bryzgalov and are literally still paying for it...

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