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Howie58

Game 70: Vegas GK at Flyers: 3/12/18 @ 7 PM

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After watching that frustrating game I know one thing is clear - I have no faith whatsoever in Hakstol.   None...  His line choices and use of players is mind-boggling at best.   

 

Sanheim needs to stay.  His skating ability alone puts him over Manning who is just brutal to watch - along with that McDud guy.  

 

 

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26 minutes ago, brelic said:

So basically, we have no depth beyond our top 6 and Simmer and Filppula - but Filppula has other issues.

 

Defensively, our bottom 6 has also fared poorly in their matchups quite often.

They desperately need a third line center.  Filppula has been a dumpster fire.  The coach seems to believe that because Filppula is a veteran he should be on the ice for important situations, particularly defensively.  Please, for the love of God, wake up to reality.  Filppula is old, slow and weak on the puck.  Stop.

 

If they are going to have any shot in the POs, I think they need to start thinking about moving Courturier to the third line and putting Giroux back at center.  At this point, I'd be tempted to try the following:

 

Weal/Giroux/Konecny (line would get eaten up defensively)

Lindblom/Patrick/Voracek (at some point they have to break through)

Raffl/Couturier/Simmonds (OK checking line)

[Anyone but Filppula] /Laughton/Lehtera (no defensive zone starts for this group)

 

 

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1 hour ago, vis said:

If they are going to have any shot in the POs, I think they need to start thinking about moving Courturier to the third line and putting Giroux back at center.  At this point, I'd be tempted to try the following:

 

Sure, turn Coots back into a checking center after he finally discovers his offense.

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2 hours ago, vis said:

They desperately need a third line center.  Filppula has been a dumpster fire.  The coach seems to believe that because Filppula is a veteran he should be on the ice for important situations, particularly defensively.  Please, for the love of God, wake up to reality.  Filppula is old, slow and weak on the puck.  Stop.

 

If they are going to have any shot in the POs, I think they need to start thinking about moving Courturier to the third line and putting Giroux back at center.  At this point, I'd be tempted to try the following:

 

Weal/Giroux/Konecny (line would get eaten up defensively)

Lindblom/Patrick/Voracek (at some point they have to break through)

Raffl/Couturier/Simmonds (OK checking line)

[Anyone but Filppula] /Laughton/Lehtera (no defensive zone starts for this group)

 

 

 

I like where you're going, but in the interest of causing the least amount of disruption, I would do something like... 

 

Keep top two lines intact. Weal is also a dumpster fire on defense.

 

Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds

Read/Lehtera/Leier

 

Scratch Filp and Weise. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I like where you're going, but in the interest of causing the least amount of disruption, I would do something like... 

 

Keep top two lines intact. Weal is also a dumpster fire on defense.

 

Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds

Read/Lehtera/Leier

 

Scratch Filp and Weise. 

 

 

 

What's most hilarious about this conversation is how far up the depth chart Lehtera has risen! At this rate he'll be on the 1st line by April!

 

[seriously, he's been very good (for a guy who can't skate)]

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6 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

What's most hilarious about this conversation is how far up the depth chart Lehtera has risen! At this rate he'll be on the 1st line by April!

 

[seriously, he's been very good (for a guy who can't skate)]

 

Hey, since Feb 18th, he has 3 goals and Schenn has 0. 

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1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Hey, since Feb 18th, he has 3 goals and Schenn has 0. 

 

So, a multi-million extension is in order I guess, eh?

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44 minutes ago, brelic said:

Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds

Read/Lehtera/Leier

I just don't know that Laughton moves the needle much on the 3rd line.  Willing to try, but not expecting results. Especially against a team like Pittsburgh in the POs.  

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1 minute ago, vis said:

I just don't know that Laughton moves the needle much on the 3rd line.  Willing to try, but not expecting results. Especially against a team like Pittsburgh in the POs.  

 

I feel like the top line is close to untouchable at this point. They've been money all season. Sure, they may dip now and again, but they've been dominant far more than not this year. It's hard to break that up. Also, I'm not convinced Couturier is the same player without his linemates. It feels very much like a chemistry thing between him and Giroux especially, and TK is filling the third slot admirably well.

 

The second line is coming into it's own as well. It just happens to have two rookies -- which is amazing and awesome. Patrick is clearly the second best center on the team (without moving Giroux, who is having a hart-worthy season in his current spot). And Voracek remains our second best producer despite himself. Lindblom is getting a good long look, which I think is a good thing.

 

Really it boils down to the bottom six being largely void of offensive talent. The problem is we just don't have anyone around right now to give them much of a boost. At least not without pulling some more kids out from the Phantoms, and there's really no telling if that would be any better.

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21 minutes ago, vis said:

I just don't know that Laughton moves the needle much on the 3rd line.  Willing to try, but not expecting results. Especially against a team like Pittsburgh in the POs.  

 

I don't disagree... But if we compare Laughton's TOI to Filppula's over the last 17 games or so, you can see a correlation, especially over the last 7 games, where Laughton's time was cut and Filppula's time increased. That coincides with FIlppula's line getting shutdown minutes. They are all losses except one.

 

Of course, they are tough teams, too, but we have seen Filppula's line get owned over several games.

 

Laughton-Filppula.JPG

 

 

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27 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I feel like the top line is close to untouchable at this point. They've been money all season. Sure, they may dip now and again, but they've been dominant far more than not this year. It's hard to break that up. Also, I'm not convinced Couturier is the same player without his linemates. It feels very much like a chemistry thing between him and Giroux especially, and TK is filling the third slot admirably well.

 

I hear ya... although I'd be willing to swap TK and Voracek to see if a) it can kickstart Couturier again, and b) to see what kind of chemistry TK can build with Patrick and Lindblom. 

 

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I like where you're going, but in the interest of causing the least amount of disruption, I would do something like... 

 

Keep top two lines intact. Weal is also a dumpster fire on defense.

 

Raffl/Laughton/Simmonds

Read/Lehtera/Leier

 

Scratch Filp and Weise. 

 

 

 

I'm with ya bench Flip sorry ass.

 

I suggested this morning (in a bit rage my apologies) moving Laughton to Flip spot but i like your idea better.

 

Scratch him!

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4 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I feel like the top line is close to untouchable at this point. They've been money all season. Sure, they may dip now and again, but they've been dominant far more than not this year. It's hard to break that up. Also, I'm not convinced Couturier is the same player without his linemates. It feels very much like a chemistry thing between him and Giroux especially, and TK is filling the third slot admirably well.

 

The second line is coming into it's own as well. It just happens to have two rookies -- which is amazing and awesome. Patrick is clearly the second best center on the team (without moving Giroux, who is having a hart-worthy season in his current spot). And Voracek remains our second best producer despite himself. Lindblom is getting a good long look, which I think is a good thing.

 

Really it boils down to the bottom six being largely void of offensive talent. The problem is we just don't have anyone around right now to give them much of a boost. At least not without pulling some more kids out from the Phantoms, and there's really no telling if that would be any better.

Agreed!  The rebuild scheme has been from the goal out.  So we have prospects (even traded Madsen away) in goal, the nucleus of a good D....and now we hope the draftees of the last two years pan out.  Patrick is growing daily; I am wondering if we see stopgap attempts from the KHL or Sweden to fill in the bottom 6 while our youngins develop.  As others have mentioned, Vechhione and one other might be starting next fall.  Only the Lord knows about Weise and Reader is probably riding off into the sunset.  

 

All in, we are at year three of the 5-year Hak-Hex experiment. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, elmatus said:

I feel like the top line is close to untouchable at this point. They've been money all season. Sure, they may dip now and again, but they've been dominant far more than not this year. It's hard to break that up. Also, I'm not convinced Couturier is the same player without his linemates. It feels very much like a chemistry thing between him and Giroux especially, and TK is filling the third slot admirably well.

I get that and I am reluctant to break that line up, but recently Giroux and Konecny have shown they can continue to produce without getting much from Couturier who has been on a bit of a slide.  I still think Couturier would get PP minutes, by the way.  I wouldn't expect Couturier to generate a lot of offense on the third line.  Rather, I'm looking for someone to add depth and at least give you something defensively.  Thinking of the Penguins, I'd consider matching lines like this: Couturier vs. Malkin, Giroux vs. Crosby and Patrick vs. Brassard.  Otherwise, one of Filppula or Patrick are going to be on one of Crosby or Malkin.  That doesn't seem to be a good recipe for success in a PO series, especially on the road when they have last change.

 

To @brelic's point re: Weal being a dumpster fire on defense, maybe put Raffl on that line with Giroux in his place?  Didn't Weal/Couturier/Simmonds show some chemistry last year?

 

Quote

 

The second line is coming into it's own as well. It just happens to have two rookies -- which is amazing and awesome. Patrick is clearly the second best center on the team (without moving Giroux, who is having a hart-worthy season in his current spot). And Voracek remains our second best producer despite himself. Lindblom is getting a good long look, which I think is a good thing.

Wouldn't touch that line, either.

 

Quote

Really it boils down to the bottom six being largely void of offensive talent.

It's not just offense.  It's been defense as well, which is the main reason for the suggestion above.

Edited by vis
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4 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I don't disagree... But if we compare Laughton's TOI to Filppula's over the last 17 games or so, you can see a correlation, especially over the last 7 games, where Laughton's time was cut and Filppula's time increased. That coincides with FIlppula's line getting shutdown minutes. They are all losses except one.

 

Of course, they are tough teams, too, but we have seen Filppula's line get owned over several games.

 

Laughton-Filppula.JPG

 

 

Not sure I understand the point.  Is your point that Laughton getting those minutes instead of Filppula would improve things?  If so, I don't think the chart above demonstrates or supports that.

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5 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Sure, turn Coots back into a checking center after he finally discovers his offense.

I'm with you. I'm against any idea that puts Couturier on the third line. 

 

I'm also against any idea that puts Weal on the top line. He is NOT an NHL players, let alone putting him on the top line. 

 

Lastly, the dislike of Filppula on this board is really exaggerated. It's not as bad as all that and will be ending shortly.  If anything, I'd put him back on wing and have Laughton center him and Simmonds. 

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10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'm also against any idea that puts Weal on the top line. He is NOT an NHL players, let alone putting him on the top line. 

 

 

Yes, it certainly looks like Weal is the 'tweener many of us worried he was, based on the sample so far. 

 

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Lastly, the dislike of Filppula on this board is really exaggerated. 

 

Agreed. I can see why people get fixated on foot speed and the like at a time when the game is getting faster and faster. But people systematically undervalue hockey smarts and versatility (funny how those two things go together eh?).

 

He and Lehtera are just easy targets because they've slowed down so much. But look what Lehtera has done of late? He's been one of our best, or at least most consistent and effective players, given his minutes and role.

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1 hour ago, vis said:

Not sure I understand the point.  Is your point that Laughton getting those minutes instead of Filppula would improve things?  If so, I don't think the chart above demonstrates or supports that.

 

I was just showing that Laughton was getting closer to 3C minutes for a stretch, and it was working well. He was chipping in offensively, too. 4 points over the stretch of 11 games - but I can’t remember if his line was matching up against top 2 lines or if it was Filppula.

 

Since getting his minutes cut - or rather since Filppula’s been elevated, we can see the matchup struggles. 

 

So, yes, I think Laughton getting those minutes might improve things defensively. 

 

And maybe it’s more about Raffl moving away from Laughton that hurt the defensive side. 

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Laughton has ZERO OFFENSIVE TALENT , his only assets are he skates fast and he'll drop the gloves ! That's about all he brings to this team, he makes more bad plays than good ,IMHO he doesn't even belong on the third line . He's not too bad along the boards but when he gets control of the puck he makes schitty decisions with it trade him in the off season if you can get something half decent for him 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Pucked in the head said:

Laughton has ZERO OFFENSIVE TALENT , his only assets are he skates fast and he'll drop the gloves ! That's about all he brings to this team, he makes more bad plays than good ,IMHO he doesn't even belong on the third line . He's not too bad along the boards but when he gets control of the puck he makes schitty decisions with it trade him in the off season if you can get something half decent for him 

 

 

 

Laughton?  When the hell did he drop the gloves? On purpose? 

 

I mean, I know he's had a whopping two FMs this year (one more than Ghost) but one was against Eberle.  It's not as if he's a fighter. 

 

And people said Couturier had no offense, too. 

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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Lastly, the dislike of Filppula on this board is really exaggerated.

 

No it's not......get that bum out the lineup!

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No it's not......get that bum out the lineup!

I thought I was the negative one? If you take that from me, what do I have? 

Edited by ruxpin
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2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I thought I was the negative one? If you take that from me, what do I have? 

 

 

Well i like Laughton and think he can help they team whereas Flip is useless besides a decent pass here and there he is just to soft and really brings nothing i see no fire in the guy....i'm done get him out of the lineup. Give Scott his job.

 

And i can be negative too....i don't do it often...well besides with certain Dmen and goalies....you role is safe!! :thumbsu:

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19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Well i like Laughton and think he can help they team whereas Flip is useless besides a decent pass here and there he is just to soft and really brings nothing i see no fire in the guy....i'm done get him out of the lineup. Give Scott his job.

 

And i can be negative too....i don't do it often...well besides with certain Dmen and goalies....you role is safe!! :thumbsu:

Okay, in the way you frame it, i get the Filppula thing.  I have no interest in resigning him, so if it's a "he's in the way of seeing what Laughton can do," I'm okay with that. 

 

He doesn't piss me off like VLC or Umberger, though. So, if he plays I'm not yelling. And I don't mind him starting ahead of Weise or Weal. Or Read. 

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