Game 70: Vegas GK at Flyers: 3/12/18 @ 7 PM

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Or Read. 

 

Sorry but i have like Read back in the lineup and he has been more noticable and effective than Filppula.

 

He has impressed me even though he don't have the the points to show for it.

 

Filppula just seems to not care most times like he is going through the motions and is going to fight hard for the puck.

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sorry but i have like Read back in the lineup and he has been more noticable and effective than Filppula.

 

He has impressed me even though he don't have the the points to show for it.

 

Filppula just seems to not care most times like he is going through the motions and is going to fight hard for the puck.

Hmm. I don't get that from Filppula. Not arguing, we're just seeing something different. 

 

And I don't have any tolerance for Read. I'll completely forget about him 5 minutes after he leaves. 

 

Same with Filppula with the forgetting about him. I wonder if Filppula was expecting to move at the deadline and the flyers went and made themselves competitive and ruined his plans. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Hmm. I don't get that from Filppula

 

[mojo1917]

18 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

He doesn't piss me off like VLC or Umberger, though. So, if he plays I'm not yelling. And I don't mind him starting ahead of Weise or Weal.

this 

Weise has been a bust from the drop in Philly, at least Weal showed something in garbage time last season. He can't find the space this year and doesn't have the speed to get to his spots and still be in control.  

 

 

[vis]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

I was just showing that Laughton was getting closer to 3C minutes for a stretch, and it was working well. He was chipping in offensively, too. 4 points over the stretch of 11 games - but I can’t remember if his line was matching up against top 2 lines or if it was Filppula.

I see he's been a -4 this month, presumably after moving back to the "4th" line.  I honestly can't recall when he was 3rd line vs. 4th line.  I know that there was a time when he was considered 3rd line, but can't recall which games.  My recollection is that when he was on the "3rd" line, the team was playing well in general.  I'm more likely to call that correlation than causation.  Btw, are you defining 3rd vs. 4th in terms of minutes played vs. linemates?

 

[vis]

10 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Sure, turn Coots back into a checking center after he finally discovers his offense.

He seems to have lost some of that offense over the last 25GP.  In that span, he has only 2G scored 5v5 (he has 3G total over that period).  He's still getting assists with 10A at 5v5 during the period, though.  By comparison, he had 14G and 10A at 5v5 before then.

 

It's not that I want to turn him back to a checking center (again, I'm reluctant to break up that line), but they might need to change some things given how the bottom six has fared.  And  I'm thinking ahead to the POs when matchups become important.  Simply said, they lack depth (offensively and defensively).  Putting Couturier back at center would help to address that issue.

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, vis said:

He seems to have lost some of that offense over the last 25GP.  In that span, he has only 2G scored 5v5 (he has 3G total over that period).  He's still getting assists with 10A at 5v5 during the period, though.  By comparison, he had 14G and 10A at 5v5 before then.

 

He is the poster child for what the whole team is doing the last month to six weeks:    Pass first.

 

Earlier, when Coots was having some success, he was shooting, crashing the net, and banging in rebounds.   The whole stinking team has become allergic to the net and want to find someone, anyone, to pass to.  Nevermind that there are 5 defenders, a goalie, and a division 1 lacrosse team in between them and whomever they're passing to.  It's like they've all gotten Voracek Syndrome.

 

SHOOT THE DAMN THING AND FOLLOW YOUR SHOT.  YOU'RE NOT IN PEEWEE; WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SAY THIS!

[vis]

 

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Earlier, when Coots was having some success, he was shooting, crashing the net, and banging in rebounds

He looks like a completely different player.  I don't know what happened, but whatever spirit possessed his body in the beginning of the year has left him.  And it's not just offensively.  He's had some struggles (by his standards) defensively as well.

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

The whole stinking team has become allergic to the net and want to find someone, anyone, to pass to.  Nevermind that there are 5 defenders, a goalie, and a division 1 lacrosse team in between them and whomever they're passing to.  It's like they've all gotten Voracek Syndrome.

 

SHOOT THE DAMN THING AND FOLLOW YOUR SHOT.  YOU'RE NOT IN PEEWEE; WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SAY THIS!

"We gotta just keep working hard, get pucks deep, get pucks in the net and, y'know, win some hockey games."

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, vis said:

 

He looks like a completely different player.  I don't know what happened, but whatever spirit possessed his body in the beginning of the year has left him.  And it's not just offensively.  He's had some struggles (by his standards) defensively as well.

"We gotta just keep working hard, get pucks deep, get pucks in the net and, y'know, win some hockey games."

 

 

[vis]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Classic.  Wish we could get Letterkenny down here.   I watch clips on YouTube, but have never seen a full episode.  Can’t even stream it.  Even tried Kodi, but couldn’t find it.  If anyone knows how to get it, please let me know.  

[vis]

 

[flyerrod]

20 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

So, a multi-million extension is in order I guess, eh?

Jody Shelley says Hey!

[brelic]

11 hours ago, vis said:

I see he's been a -4 this month, presumably after moving back to the "4th" line.  I honestly can't recall when he was 3rd line vs. 4th line.  I know that there was a time when he was considered 3rd line, but can't recall which games.  My recollection is that when he was on the "3rd" line, the team was playing well in general.  I'm more likely to call that correlation than causation.  Btw, are you defining 3rd vs. 4th in terms of minutes played vs. linemates?

 

 

Yes, the team was playing well in general, so it's hard to determine Laughton's line and their role. I agree, it's more correlation than causation. And the TOI graph was to show that Filppula's time has been increasing at the expense of Laughton lately - and Hak has been matching up VF's line with other top lines with mediocre to terrible results. 

 

I think there are better matchups that can be put out there, and I don't recall Laughton's line being hemmed in their own zone as much as Filp's.... though their linemates change often, so it's hard to pinpoint what's happening.

 

In the end, I know what you mean about going G/Patrick/Coots/Laughton down the middle. It's a stronger center lineup. It might work.

 

Raffl/G/TK

Lindblom/Patrick/Voracek

Filppula or Weal/Couturier/Simmonds

Lehtera/Laughton/Read or Leier

 

While we're on the topic of spreading the wealth... 

 

Provorov/MacDonald

Ghost/Hagg

Sanheim/Gudas

Manning

 

[ruxpin]

20 minutes ago, brelic said:

In the end, I know what you mean about going G/Patrick/Coots/Laughton down the middle. It's a stronger center lineup. It might work.

 

Raffl/G/TK

Lindblom/Patrick/Voracek

Filppula or Weal/Couturier/Simmonds

Lehtera/Laughton/Read or Leier

 

I know you and vis are just throwing stuff out there, but that's a horrible lineup, IMO.   Keep the top six and work on the rest for next year.

Filppula and Read will be gone.   If either is extended, my head might explode.   I could see them signing Filppula for a 1-2 year at a vast pay cut.   I said I could see it.  I'm not saying I'd like it.   I doubt it, though.

 

Any suggestion that includes Raffl on the top line makes my head hurt and makes me nauseated.   Stop with top 6 minutes for Raffl.  I know, I know, I know.  He can play any position and slide up and down.  So can Stormy Daniels.  I don't want either of them anywhere near the top line.

 

I also, frankly, don't want Giroux back at center.   There's a reason why he's been better this year than he has for several:  because they put him back where he belongs.  On wing.

 

Giroux - Couturier - TK

Lindblom - Patrick / Voracek

Filppula - Laughton - Simmonds

Read - Lehtera - Leier

 

And leave it alone.  Put a note in the suggestion box that Hakstol just leave the stinking lines alone.

 

If you're feeling really saucy, flip Patrick and Couturier.   I'm wondering about Couturier's diminished offense and the timing of the move of Voracek off of his line.   I haven't looked and I don't think the cause/effect was immediate, but I'm wondering about TK's penchant for going to the net and slot area and causing havoc.  That's a good thing, but it was previously kind of Couturier's thing.  You put him back with Lindblom and Voracek, and you have two faceoff circle/halfboards players and Couturier to play in the slot.    I think Giroux/Patrick/TK would be suspect on defense so that's the danger, but maybe you morph the lines depending upon whether you get the lead or are playing from behind.   Oh wait, that would me adaptation by the coach during a game.  What was I thinking?

[elmatus]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Hmm. I don't get that from Filppula. Not arguing, we're just seeing something different. 

 

And I don't have any tolerance for Read. I'll completely forget about him 5 minutes after he leaves. 

 

Same with Filppula with the forgetting about him. I wonder if Filppula was expecting to move at the deadline and the flyers went and made themselves competitive and ruined his plans. 

 

I agree on both points. I have solid respect for Read. He was a soldier for us for some years and played reasonably well over that time. He never really lived up to contract expectations, but he was nonetheless a good mid to bottom six player over his time. He was defensively responsible, and he has always had decent finishing ability. 

 

That said, his time is done. I do understand the call up to play out the season. I do believe he's better still than Weise, so if the choice is between those two, I'd give Read the spot for sure. It isn't just between those two of course, which is where things get a bit messy for him. For the most part, he just isn't an effective NHL player anymore. Again, I respect the guy, but there comes a time when playing in this caliber of a hockey league just doesn't work anymore for a guy like him.

 

I also agree on Fil. Yeah, he's not elite. He may never actually have been elite really. But he's still good enough to play in this league. He still has good vision and better than average passing. He's always been afraid to shoot, probably in part because his shot really isn't very good. But given our weak bottom six, I do think he should be playing somewhere. Whether that's on the third or on the fourth, on the wing or at center, those are decisions for Hak to make of course. 

 

Is he better than Laughton? Meh. I think they're different players frankly. I think they're both bottom six worthy, and I think it depends on who they have for linemates. Laughton seems faster and more tenacious. He's at his best on the forecheck, not so much because of his offensive skill, but simply because he's pretty decent at forcing errors.

 

Fil is a better passer and has better vision, but he's slower at this point, and he would need linemates with a decent shot to be truly effective. That's not going to happen in our bottom six, so his use becomes rather more limited. Hak could play him with Read, who does have a decent shot, but that would make for a terribly slow line. I can't imagine they would be able to generate much. More than likely they'd just end up hemmed into the d-zone or be unable to bring the puck in.

 

Really though, it's not an either or equation for me. Simmonds, Laughton, and Fil should all be playing in the bottom six at this point imo. The rest are fillers, and that's where good coaching decisions come into play. Hak will not get elite play from anyone down there. He needs to find the best combos possible for specific game situations.

 

These are all role players at this point. Figure out what works fairly well for specific roles, and give it a go. That's pretty much the best we can expect I think.

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I agree on both points. I have solid respect for Read. He was a soldier for us for some years and played reasonably well over that time. He never really lived up to contract expectations, but he was nonetheless a good mid to bottom six player over his time. He was defensively responsible, and he has always had decent finishing ability. 

 

That said, his time is done. I do understand the call up to play out the season. I do believe he's better still than Weise, so if the choice is between those two, I'd give Read the spot for sure. It isn't just between those two of course, which is where things get a bit messy for him. For the most part, he just isn't an effective NHL player anymore. Again, I respect the guy, but there comes a time when playing in this caliber of a hockey league just doesn't work anymore for a guy like him.

 

I also agree on Fil. Yeah, he's not elite. He may never actually have been elite really. But he's still good enough to play in this league. He still has good vision and better than average passing. He's always been afraid to shoot, probably in part because his shot really isn't very good. But given our weak bottom six, I do think he should be playing somewhere. Whether that's on the third or on the fourth, on the wing or at center, those are decisions for Hak to make of course. 

 

Is he better than Laughton? Meh. I think they're different players frankly. I think they're both bottom six worthy, and I think it depends on who they have for linemates. Laughton seems faster and more tenacious. He's at his best on the forecheck, not so much because of his offensive skill, but simply because he's pretty decent at forcing errors.

 

Fil is a better passer and has better vision, but he's slower at this point, and he would need linemates with a decent shot to be truly effective. That's not going to happen in our bottom six, so his use becomes rather more limited. Hak could play him with Read, who does have a decent shot, but that would make for a terribly slow line. I can't imagine they would be able to generate much. More than likely they'd just end up hemmed into the d-zone or be unable to bring the puck in.

 

Really though, it's not an either or equation for me. Simmonds, Laughton, and Fil should all be playing in the bottom six at this point imo. The rest are fillers, and that's where good coaching decisions come into play. Hak will not get elite play from anyone down there. He needs to find the best combos possible for specific game situations.

 

These are all role players at this point. Figure out what works fairly well for specific roles, and give it a go. That's pretty much the best we can expect I think.

 

Agree.  I'm not as high on Read's shot as you.  I'm not sure he could score holding a million dollars in a bar full of naked drunk hookers.

Maybe if it were a FOP convention in Ottawa.  Not sure.

 

Anyway, agree with everything else, though.   Read was fun when he came up.   His game was predicated on quickness (he had footspeed, but I'm not talking fast.  I'm talking quickness--reaction, etc.)  His game lost that for whatever reason.  Not sure if it was due to injury, aging, or what.   But when that left him, so did his effectiveness.    I'm okay with their bringing him back to finish the season.   If he's replacing Weise it's all good.  I know there may be a kid to bring up, but if they're getting solid time in Lehigh or elsewhere, that's probably better for their development than being brought up for 4th line duty.   And it's classy to let Read play it out.  I doubt he signs anywhere else, so this may be it for him.

 

Good post!

[Podein25]

12 hours ago, vis said:

Putting Couturier back at center would help to address that issue.

 

Has he been playing wing?

[ruxpin]

50 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Has he been playing wing?

Lol. I've read that post several times and didn't catch that.  I think he meant Giroux (or skipped the word "checking"). 

 

In either case, I'm not moving Giroux back to center. IMO, that's a mistake. 

 

I'm willing to flip flop Patrick and Couturier to get the latter back with Voracek, but that doesn't help the bottom six and I'm not sure it really changes the top six for the better. 

 

But again, i don't put Giroux back at center. Results are results. 

[Podein25]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Lol. I've read that post several times and didn't catch that.  I think he meant Giroux (or skipped the word "checking"). 

 

In either case, I'm not moving Giroux back to center. IMO, that's a mistake. 

 

I'm willing to flip flop Patrick and Couturier to get the latter back with Voracek, but that doesn't help the bottom six and I'm not sure it really changes the top six for the better. 

 

But again, i don't put Giroux back at center. Results are results. 

 

Yeah, he obviously meant Giroux, I was just taking the piss as they say.  Yeah, none of the potential changes really changes our bottom six. They are what they are for now. 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I know you and vis are just throwing stuff out there, but that's a horrible lineup, IMO.   Keep the top six and work on the rest for next year.

Filppula and Read will be gone.   If either is extended, my head might explode.   I could see them signing Filppula for a 1-2 year at a vast pay cut.   I said I could see it.  I'm not saying I'd like it.   I doubt it, though.

 

Any suggestion that includes Raffl on the top line makes my head hurt and makes me nauseated.   Stop with top 6 minutes for Raffl.  I know, I know, I know.  He can play any position and slide up and down.  So can Stormy Daniels.  I don't want either of them anywhere near the top line.

 

Yeah, we're just throwing stuff around - and I don't like it either. But @vis makes a good point re: playoffs. The current lineup will get exposed even more in the playoffs because of the severe dropoff in the bottom 6 up front and bottom 4 on the blueline.

 

So, do you just let them run the way they have all year and take their lumps and chalk it up to experience gained? Or do you try something that will likely hurt offensive production but hopefully boost defense and give the Flyers more options for matchups - maybe even gain an edge if they can spread the wealth?

 

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Giroux - Couturier - TK

Lindblom - Patrick / Voracek

Filppula - Laughton - Simmonds

Read - Lehtera - Leier

 

Very close to my original suggestion - leave the top 6 alone, and move Laughton to 3C and Lehtera to 4C. I had Filppula scratched in favour of Raffl.

 

 

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

So, do you just let them run the way they have all year and take their lumps and chalk it up to experience gained? Or do you try something that will likely hurt offensive production but hopefully boost defense and give the Flyers more options for matchups - maybe even gain an edge if they can spread the wealth?

I'm afraid yes to the first part. 

 

But to the second point, i don't think moving Couturier to 3C helps nearly enough to compensate for the destruction done to the top 6.

 

An unexpected trip to the playoffs this year and the probably little bit of playoff experience the kids will get is more than sufficient for me (YMMV).  

 

But honestly, in a playoff setting, I don't care how you rearrange the deck chairs, I don't think the team as currently comprised is good enough to overcome what they have in goal over the course of a long series.  

 

I don't undo the strides either Giroux or Couturier have made this year by doing something that ultimately causes more damage than it helps.  

 

I'm with you on rearranging the bottom six, but ultimately it's the same deadweight filling in too many slots. 

[AJgoal]

On the bright side, it's generally easier to construct a serviceable bottom six than a good top six (ditto bottom half of the d-corps). So while this year, lack of depth might be an issue, it's unlikely to continue. Whereas if the bottom six was good, but you lacked top-6 talent, there'd be very little near-term hope.

[Pucked in the head]

Get rid of filpula laughton and Leir and play 3 lines, same outcome !!! They all SUCK!

[Pucked in the head]

G , Coots, TK  - lindblom, Patrick, and vorachoke,- weal /Read , raffl, Simmonds - Leir, laughton, and weal/Read manbitch sits in the press box (on d)!!!!  I wouldn't mind seeing these lines they tried almost everything else ,lol

[Pucked in the head]

Not a fan of Simmonds on the third line but it seems he got assed out !