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timelydew

Goalie Interference and Coach's Challenge Question

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It started out with a simple question. If they call a penalty for goaltender interference along with disallowing a goal, and then upon review/a challenge they rule it a good goal, do they reverse the penalty call with it? The rulebook only mentions they can't assess penalties if they review a goal for goalie interference. It fails to address this. My immediate thought was for a scenario where the puck in mid-flight, after a shot, enters the net while an attacking player crashing the net "interferes" with the keeper (no puck possession at time of infraction). I initially excluded plays like the Dumoulin play due to puck possession/penalty rules, but will include it now. Read on.

 

I posted this question on HfBoards, and some of us over there began speculating on what might happen. First off, we've determined that once they call the penalty, the play is dead/non-reviewable no matter what, since you can't review or take back penalties. That being said...

 

There is precedent for the officials huddling and rescinding a penalty call. A notable example of this is when Sidney Crosby was recalled from the penalty box in a game against Chicago a couple years ago. The officials had a pow-wow and removed Sid when it was determined the call in question was incorrect. I think it happened to Polak, too, more recently.

The Crosby situation: 

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So, applying this to the goalie interference situation, what happens to the status of a goal/no goal if the referees decide to reverse their call on a goalie interference penalty? Would it automatically be no goal since the play was "dead"? Could they, after rescinding the penalty, decide independently on whether it's a goal or not? If it's no goal (automatically or not), is this play now eligible to be challenged? Can it be challenged by the defending team if ruled a goal? In other words, does it now fall under the normal challenge rules for garden-variety GI situations?

 

One guy thought the determination of goal/no goal might depend on the timing of the whistle (in regards to the play being dead), but I'm not so sure about that. At least, I think that's what he meant.

 

Anyway, what started out as a pretty simple question, became a pretty complex one when all was said and done. Anyone have any perspectives on this? I think the fact that a penalty is called does indeed nullify the legality of a challenge, but if the refs huddle and reverse it, what would be the outcome for a potential goal?

 

EDIT: I think we can all agree that plays like this... 

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 ... shouldn't happen. However, the ref would have to reverse the penalty call to fix this anyway... right? That is a large part of the question, whether or not GI penalties preclude challenges. We've determined they probably do.

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Well this just came up in the Pens/Stars game on Sunday night where Brian Doumolin thought he had scored a goal as he was being ridden by a defender past the Dallas goalie.  His hip bumped the goalie, and the official in the corner decided that it was goaltender interference, and that he was going to call a penalty on the play.  The way it was described, was that since a penalty was called, it did not matter when the puck went in the net, the goal could not count.  Sullivan wanted to challenge, but since the play was called a penalty, not a goal, , then the goal never really happened, and so he could not challenge the play. 

 

Back to your rescinding point.  If the officials got together and then decided that it really was not a penalty, then I believe the goal would have counted.  But one or more of the on ice official would have to have seen the play very differently.  This became a focus of the league a few years back to try to get calls right.   

 

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@timelydew

 

Looks like this is a prime example of a goal counting with goalie interference penalty called.

 

 

 

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On 11/17/2018 at 11:59 AM, hf101 said:

prime example

 

So i figured i was ask this here instead of starting a new thread since we are kind of talking about interference.

 

Not sure if you seen the goal last night waived off because it was scored off a ref.

 

So if you can't score a goal off a ref so should a goal score when a ref interferes with a player not count too??

 

 

 

 

So when a ref gets in the way sets a pick like i see a few games ago on Ghost that lead to a goal why isn't that waived off???

 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So when a ref gets in the way sets a pick like i see a few games ago on Ghost that lead to a goal why isn't that waived off???

 

 

I'm guessing because there is a specific NHL rule that states you can't score a goal off an on-ice official (Rule 78.5 (iii)), but there is nothing in the disallowed goal section (Rule 78.5), as far as I can see, that states a goal that is the result of an on-ice officials interference with the play doesn't count.

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12 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I'm guessing because there is a specific NHL rule that states you can't score a goal off an on-ice official (Rule 78.5 (iii)), but there is nothing in the disallowed goal section (Rule 78.5), as far as I can see, that states a goal that is the result of an on-ice officials interference with the play doesn't count.

 

 

Well I think they should be both waived off.

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19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Well I think they should be both waived off.

 

I don't disagree, but who would determine that the on-ice official interfered with the play? Would that official have to determine that? Or another on-ice official? Toronto?

 

And what about plays when the offense tries to dump the puck in, it ricochets off the linesman and the defense takes it the other way and scores?

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18 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I don't disagree, but who would determine that the on-ice official interfered with the play? Would that official have to determine that? Or another on-ice official? Toronto?

 

And what about plays when the offense tries to dump the puck in, it ricochets off the linesman and the defense takes it the other way and scores?

 

Toronto could decide.

 

All of it should be in question and reviewed.

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10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Toronto could decide.

 

All of it should be in question and reviewed.

 

But then you're going to get the traditionalist's whining about how the reviews are slowing the game down and they are taking the human element out of the game...

 

I don't know what the right answer would be, but I get where you are coming from. I've always felt the refs get a lot of stick, so give them the tools to make the correct decisions.

 

But then that would depend on the ref to have the humility to say "I made the wrong call..."

 

Can you imagine Mick McGeough saying that? 🤣 

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1 minute ago, IllaZilla said:

But then you're going to get the traditionalist's whining about how the reviews are slowing the game down and they are taking the human element out of the game...

 

So....this doesn't happen several times a game or something.

 

I want them to get rid of the refs influence on the outcome out of the game as much as possible, hell we already have them influencing it enough now with their inconsistent/lack/excessive/ticky tac calls as it is.

 

No more is needed.

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4 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Can you imagine Mick McGeough saying that?

 

No but it takes a man to admit he is wrong.

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3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So....this doesn't happen several times a game or something.

 

I want them to get rid of the refs influence on the outcome out of the game as much as possible, hell we already have them influencing it enough now with their inconsistent/lack/excessive/ticky tac calls as it is.

 

No more is needed.

 

I still think they need to get one ref off the ice and put him in a booth upstairs and have him constantly reviewing the plays, like the are doing with VAR In European Football. He can radio down to the main ref to make the call. 

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3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No but it takes a man to admit he is wrong.

Yeah, but how many refs are willing to do that...admit they made a bad call?

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14 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Yeah, but how many refs are willing to do that...admit they made a bad call?

 

Hopefully all of them...

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23 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I still think they need to get one ref off the ice and put him in a booth upstairs and have him constantly reviewing the plays, like the are doing with VAR In European Football. He can radio down to the main ref to make the call. 

 

Or at least a third umpire arrangement like they have for cricket. The umpires messing with the ipads looks silly and doesn't lend very well to the sort of video analysis a proper setup would give.

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