Giroux

[murraycraven]

On 4/9/2018 at 2:59 PM, ruxpin said:

 

LOL  I was just trying to eliminate Mrazek from the discussion.

 

 

Mrazek is the one in the back the enters stage right waving his arms to prevent him from falling!

[brelic]

Giroux figured in the highest % of his team's goals across the league except for McDavid. 

 

More than Hall, MacKinnon, Kucherov, and all the rest of them.

 

McDavid is the best player in the league, no question. But his team got WORSE by 25 points. No chance in hell he deserves the Hart.

 

I say G gets it

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

I say G gets it

 

He finished 5th.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

32 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He finished 5th.

 

Where are you seeing this?  I posted in the shoutbox earlier, that must have been a mock, not the real voting.  The point system didn't match what they use and the totals were way off.

 

They use 10-7-5-3-1 point system and last year McDavid won with 1604 points.

 

Sean Leahy‏Verified account @Sean_Leahy

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Hart Trophy voting

7:26 PM - 21 Jun 2017

 

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Where are you seeing this?  I posted in the shoutbox earlier, that must have been a mock, not the real voting.  The point system didn't match what they use and the totals were way off.

 

They use 10-7-5-3-1 point system and last year McDavid won with 1604 points.

 

Sean Leahy‏Verified account @Sean_Leahy

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Hart Trophy voting

7:26 PM - 21 Jun 2017

 

 

That is last year.

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Where are you seeing this? 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-hart-trophy-race-filled-with-quality-mvp-candidates/c-297815268?tid=277729400

 

Voting totals (points awarded on a 5-4-3-2-1 basis): Nathan MacKinnon, Avalanche, 62 points (seven first-place votes); Taylor Hall, New Jersey Devils, 54 (three first-place votes); Anze Kopitar, Los Angeles Kings, 43 (three first-place votes); Nikita Kucherov, Tampa Bay Lightning, 26 (two first-place votes); Claude Giroux, Philadelphia Flyers, 18; Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh Penguins, 15; Connor McDavid, Edmonton Oilers, 15 (one first place-vote); Blake Wheeler, Winnipeg Jets, 11; Alex Ovechkin, Washington Capitals, 8 (one first-place vote); Artemi Panarin, Columbus Blue Jackets, 1; Brad Marchand, Boston Bruins, 1; Steven Stamkos, Tampa Bay Lightning, 1

 

 

Giroux is 5th.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

That is last year.

 

That's what I said.  Read my post.  I posted that tweet to show the point totals.

 

Where are you seeing that Giroux came in 5th in the voting?  They don't use the point system you posted in the shoutbox and the totals you posted were 1500 points too low compared to last year.

 

EDIT:  That NHL.com article is not the actual vote.  That is a mock vote with about 10 people voting.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

That's what I said.  Read my post.  I posted that tweet to show the point totals.

 

Where are you seeing that Giroux came in 5th in the voting?  They don't use the point system you posted in the shoutbox and the totals you posted were 1500 points too low compared to last year.

 

 

It's an NHL.com thing.

[OccamsRazor]

And the Norris equivalent: 

 

Voting totals (points awarded on a 5-4-3-2-1 basis): Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay Lightning, 74 points (9 first-place votes); Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings, 66 points (6 first-place votes); P.K. Subban, Nashville Predators, 28 points; John Carlson, Washington Capitals 22 points (1 first-place vote); Seth Jones, Columbus Blue Jackets, 19 points; John Klingberg, Dallas Stars, 16 points (1 first-place vote), Alex Pietrangelo, St. Louis Blues, 10 points; Ryan Suter, Minnesota Wild, 9 points; Brent Burns, San Jose Sharks, 5 points; Morgan Rielly, Toronto Maple Leafs, 2 points; Shayne Gostisbehere, Philadelphia Flyers, 1 point; Erik Karlsson, Ottawa Senators, 1 point; Marc-Eduoard Vlasic, Sharks, 1 point; Jaccob Slavin, Carolina Hurricanes, 1 point

 

Not sure how/why Provorov isn't even included in this.

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

And the Norris equivalent: 

 

Voting totals (points awarded on a 5-4-3-2-1 basis): Victor Hedman, Tampa Bay Lightning, 74 points (9 first-place votes); Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings, 66 points (6 first-place votes); P.K. Subban, Nashville Predators, 28 points; John Carlson, Washington Capitals 22 points (1 first-place vote); Seth Jones, Columbus Blue Jackets, 19 points; John Klingberg, Dallas Stars, 16 points (1 first-place vote), Alex Pietrangelo, St. Louis Blues, 10 points; Ryan Suter, Minnesota Wild, 9 points; Brent Burns, San Jose Sharks, 5 points; Morgan Rielly, Toronto Maple Leafs, 2 points; Shayne Gostisbehere, Philadelphia Flyers, 1 point; Erik Karlsson, Ottawa Senators, 1 point; Marc-Eduoard Vlasic, Sharks, 1 point; Jaccob Slavin, Carolina Hurricanes, 1 point

 

Not sure how/why Provorov isn't even included in this.

Neither of these things are an official vote. It's a mock vote by nhl.com writers. 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

13 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Neither of these things are an official vote. It's a mock vote by nhl.com writers. 

 

Correct, Rux!

 

OR,

In this post you make it sound like its official.  The real voting probably hasn't been completed yet.

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He finished 5th.

 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

In this post you make it sound like its official.  The real voting probably hasn't been completed yet.

 

 

Don't you hate it when "ruxpin" looks like "OccamsRazor?" 

 

And you called me old man! 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Don't you hate it when "ruxpin" looks like "OccamsRazor?" 

 

And you called me old man! 

 

LOL  OOooppps!  I didn't even look who posted it.  I fixed it!

 

And I didn't call you old man...I called you old fart!

[FD19372]

21 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Neither of these things are an official vote. It's a mock vote by nhl.com writers. 

Hard for a guy like Provorov to win the Norris when doesn't put up the points, unfortunately. It's a numbers game.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

Hard for a guy like Provorov to win the Norris when doesn't put up the points, unfortunately. It's a numbers game.

Oh agree. I don't think he'll even be in the discussion. Just pointing out the two sets of results posted aren't anything official. 

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Hard for a guy like Provorov to win the Norris when doesn't put up the points, unfortunately. It's a numbers game.

He actually did tie for most goals among defensemen in the NHL. That's actually pretty cool. He and Ghost are going to be so much fun to watch. 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

5 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Hard for a guy like Provorov to win the Norris when doesn't put up the points, unfortunately. It's a numbers game.

 

Yeah, over the years the Norris trophy has turned into the best offensive d-man trophy.  

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

He actually did tie for most goals among defensemen in the NHL. That's actually pretty cool. He and Ghost are going to be so much fun to watch. raise a Cup or two in the next 4 years.

Fixed it for ya.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Neither of these things are an official vote. It's a mock vote by nhl.com writers. 

 

Yeah I said it was a NHL.com thing look bac a couple post.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

Hard for a guy like Provorov to win the Norris when doesn't put up the points, unfortunately. It's a numbers game.

 

Well he lead defensemen in goals those are points too.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

Yeah, over the years the Norris trophy has turned into the best offensive d-man trophy.  

 

Well then Ghost should be considered more

 

.83 points per game only 2 Dmen were better Karlsson and Barrie but they were -25 and-15 respectively.

 

Just saying you can skew it which ever way you want.

[elmatus]

8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well then Ghost should be considered more

 

I honestly think he might be in the running this year, just as Giroux will be for Hart, and Couts may be for Selke as well.

 

My guess is only Giroux has a legit shot between them though.

 

Also, way to bury the lead on the NHL.com poll. The actual 2018 nominees should be released in the coming weeks.

[JR Ewing]

As usual, Hart voting will come down to:

 

1. Did the scoring leader's team make the playoffs? Yes? Give him the award.

2. No? Give it to one the best player on a team that just eked their way into the playoffs. That guy's a real leader.

 

It would continue the habit of awarding players trophies based on things which are beyond their control, good and bad. Given that, Giroux actually has a decent shot at this, as he was splendid this year. I think that, generally speaking, Giroux is often criminally underrated as a hockey player, and I was happy to see him work his way into second in scoring on the last day.

 

 

[elmatus]

24 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Giroux is often criminally underrated as a hockey player

 

He absolutely is. It's amazing to me how many articles have been written in the last week alone on Crosby, who essentially played third fiddle on his own team this year. Meanwhile, only the Philly faithful seem to talk about Giroux more than just in passing. Given another couple weeks, there's a reasonable chance G would have challenges for the scoring title, yet he still lingers on the back pages of media coverage.

 

26 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

1. Did the scoring leader's team make the playoffs? Yes? Give him the award.

2. No? Give it to one the best player on a team that just eked their way into the playoffs. That guy's a real leader.

 

While this does seem simplistic, I also kind of agree with it. I think missing the playoffs should largely disqualify someone, and I think it should be about the extent to which the individual in question was the driving force of his team.

 

This is also where the Giroux for Hart thing becomes murky unfortunately. He obviously has a solid case to make, but as you say he's chronically overlooked. Also, the others in the running also have legit cases for it. Hall in particular is very much on an island in NJ this year. He is the only reason they're not scraping the floor. His 93 pts dwarf the second place scorer on NJ who is Hischier at 51. Take Hall off that team, and they become a footnote.

 

How does that compare to Giroux? Well, it could be looked at in two ways really:

 

1) Perhaps the far greater success found by Couts, TK, Voracek, Ghost, and Patrick this year is simply because Giroux is so good he can make all those guys into elite-level players.

2) Perhaps Giroux's totals are in part fed by those other guys being very good players anyway.

 

Looking at both rosters, it's pretty obvious Giroux has a much much stronger supporting cast. No doubt part of their success is because of him, but it's also fair to say that he has benefited from them as well, which is something Hall did not have to draw from.

 

All that being said, I really hope Giroux takes it of course, and I do feel he has a very legit shot. I'm not sure the powers-that-be will consider him as highly as others unfortunately, because he remains chronically overlooked a lot of the time.

[OccamsRazor]

51 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

Giroux is often criminally underrated as a hockey player

 

 

More so even by his actually Flyers fans. He would be coveted until he played for another team. Sad.