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Flyers 2018 draft discussion


ruxpin

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8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

No idea what it would take, so I'll put that to the side other than to say obviously picks #14 & #19 would be involved.   If either of Boqvist or Bouchard are still on the board, I probably kick the tires.  And if Zadina or Svech is somehow still there, it's a no-brainer.

 

Unfortunately I can't see Zadina or Svechnikov falling but crazier things have certainly happened!  Not that I want June to fly by but I can't wait for draft day to be here.

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1 minute ago, sekkes85 said:

 

Unfortunately I can't see Zadina or Svechnikov falling but crazier things have certainly happened!  Not that I want June to fly by but I can't wait for draft day to be here.

 

beat me too it ... I just don't see how Zadina or Svechnikov fall to #6.  If they do..and If I'm Hexy..... I'm picking up that phone ...

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Considering the Flyers will lose either Sanheim or Myers in the expansion draft after this season, does Hextall include one of them in a trade to move up in the draft? Or trade either for a  first rounder and draft a dman .? I don’t want to trade either of them, but it’s either that or lose one for nothing. Which guy do you think Hexy would trade?

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24 minutes ago, sekkes85 said:

 

Unfortunately I can't see Zadina or Svechnikov falling but crazier things have certainly happened!  Not that I want June to fly by but I can't wait for draft day to be here.

 

22 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

beat me too it ... I just don't see how Zadina or Svechnikov fall to #6.  If they do..and If I'm Hexy..... I'm picking up that phone ..

 

Completely agree with both of you.  I don't see it.    Zadina maybe to #5 if Arizona and Ottawa both go defense or if one of them idiotically goes with Tkachuk and the other goes defense.   Nothing against Tkachuk, but I go Zadina 10 times out of 10 chances.    But it's possible.

 

#6 is only possible if 2 out of Montreal, Arizona, and Ottawa go defense and someone goes Tkachuk.   If some of the mock drafts are right and Carolina goes Zadina instead of Svechnikov (how dumb is that?), then no way either is there at #6.   I shouldn't have included Svech because I don't see any path to his still sitting there at #6. 

 

If I were to place odds on Zabina still being there at #6, I'd say it's 99.99% against.  But IF he is, like @pilldoc said, PICK UP THE PHONE!

 

@sekkes85, I'm enjoying the playoffs and all, but the whole time I've been "get done with it so we can get to the draft!"

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3 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Considering the Flyers will lose either Sanheim or Myers in the expansion draft after this season, does Hextall include one of them in a trade to move up in the draft? Or trade either for a  first rounder and draft a dman .? I don’t want to trade either of them, but it’s either that or lose one for nothing. Which guy do you think Hexy would trade?

 

Maybe.  Again though, you trade one and then almost ensure you lose the other in the draft.

 

If it's me (I know, thank God it's not!), I'm trading up to get one of the really good dmen in the 6-9 range so I have a replacement just about ready when I lose ONE.   I don't know that #14 plus, say, a Simmonds and/or Gudas gets it done.  It would likely take both picks plus Simmonds to get it done.  I'm not sure that even does it.  It will probably take a dman and/or a center.

 

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16 hours ago, AJgoal said:

I could see Simmonds going in a player for player based trade, too. It's not like the Flyers need more prospects (as in their cupboard is far from bare, not that they're not always good to have more of), so if the Flyers were to move on a Skinner or a Hamilton, I could see Simmonds as a possibility there. Getting a slightly younger but established NHL vet might be the way Hextall goes with a Simmonds trade.

 

You think? I don't know that many teams would do something like this. It seems like a lateral move to me.

 

To take your two examples, I personally wouldn't want either Skinner and even less Hamilton in a trade for Simmonds. That seems like a net loss to me for sure in both cases. I understand that having a shooting LW would be nice, but I don't think Skinner makes the team measurably better, and I think Simmonds stands to be a significantly more effective player overall. I have even less time for Hamilton. I've never understood the hype for him and probably never will. We already have two dmen on the roster who are better than him, and any step forward from Sanheim next year places him equal to Hamilton at least imo. Adding someone like Hamilton would just gum up the works for Myers, Morin, etc. I don't see the point.

 

Not to mention neither of these trades would be addressing the single biggest issue this team had this season. We would need a legion of stud dmen to overcome our remarkable weakness in goal. If Hex is serious about getting better in the short term, improving our goalie situation needs to be his no.1 preoccupation. Our first round exit this past year is the best we can expect with Elliott/Neuvy between the pipes.

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7 minutes ago, elmatus said:

To take your two examples, I personally wouldn't want either Skinner and even less Hamilton in a trade for Simmonds. That seems like a net loss to me for sure in both cases. I understand that having a shooting LW would be nice, but I don't think Skinner makes the team measurably better, and I think Simmonds stands to be a significantly more effective player overall. I have even less time for Hamilton. I've never understood the hype for him and probably never will. We already have two dmen on the roster who are better than him, and any step forward from Sanheim next year places him equal to Hamilton at least imo. Adding someone like Hamilton would just gum up the works for Myers, Morin, etc. I don't see the point

 

The benefit of Hamilton is that he plays the right side naturally and could be a great upgrade from Gudas.

 

I like the shooting LWer idea, but I'm with you that it's not really an upgrade (although a position swap) and Simmonds brings other things Skinner does not. 

 

Ultimately, though, I'm hesitant to do anything like that.  I know it shouldn't be the trumping issue, but any of these trades would bring in yet someone else that needs to be protected.   I don't think we need to be concerned about that with Skinner--I'd leave him exposed and not be really worried.    But someone like Hamilton would probably need to be protected (on merit, but also because we just traded Simmonds for him!) and would leave yet another kid exposed.

 

I don't know what I'd do at this point, but it would make it easier for GMs to figure it out if they would decide on what that draft is going to look like (i.e., same rules or altered in some way).

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4 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

You think? I don't know that many teams would do something like this. It seems like a lateral move to me.

 

To take your two examples, I personally wouldn't want either Skinner and even less Hamilton in a trade for Simmonds. That seems like a net loss to me for sure in both cases. I understand that having a shooting LW would be nice, but I don't think Skinner makes the team measurably better, and I think Simmonds stands to be a significantly more effective player overall. I have even less time for Hamilton. I've never understood the hype for him and probably never will. We already have two dmen on the roster who are better than him, and any step forward from Sanheim next year places him equal to Hamilton at least imo. Adding someone like Hamilton would just gum up the works for Myers, Morin, etc. I don't see the point.

 

Not to mention neither of these trades would be addressing the single biggest issue this team had this season. We would need a legion of stud dmen to overcome our remarkable weakness in goal. If Hex is serious about getting better in the short term, improving our goalie situation needs to be his no.1 preoccupation. Our first round exit this past year is the best we can expect with Elliott/Neuvy between the pipes.

 

I'm not necessarily suggesting them as 1-for-1 trades, but just trying to toss out the sort of move I could see Simmonds going in that's not going to necessarily be another backward move. That's not to say that I'm against getting more prospects, but Hextall has said it's time for the team to start getting better overall - trading Simmonds for picks and prospects would certainly make the team worse, at least on paper. So I would expect that if Simmonds is moved, it's either a move that addresses a current weakness directly, or one that facilitates another move that does so along the lines of a three-team trade.

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59 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I'm not necessarily suggesting them as 1-for-1 trades, but just trying to toss out the sort of move I could see Simmonds going in that's not going to necessarily be another backward move. That's not to say that I'm against getting more prospects, but Hextall has said it's time for the team to start getting better overall - trading Simmonds for picks and prospects would certainly make the team worse, at least on paper. So I would expect that if Simmonds is moved, it's either a move that addresses a current weakness directly, or one that facilitates another move that does so along the lines of a three-team trade.

I'm okay with moving Simmonds for picks/prospects in principle. My problem with it is that a contender (presumably with a late pick) would be more likely to trade for him than a developing team (presumably with a lottery-eligible pick).  

 

Part of the algebra for me regarding this is the expansion draft.  There may be merit in trading for a good prospect with less than 2 years pro and a pick or something.  I'd be hesitant to trade for someone we'd have to worry about protecting or losing. 

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13 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I'm okay with moving Simmonds for picks/prospects in principle. My problem with it is that a contender (presumably with a late pick) would be more likely to trade for him than a developing team (presumably with a lottery-eligible pick).  

 

Part of the algebra for me regarding this is the expansion draft.  There may be merit in trading for a good prospect with less than 2 years pro and a pick or something.  I'd be hesitant to trade for someone we'd have to worry about protecting or losing. 

 

I agree, though I wouldn't care much about losing Hamilton personally. In fact, he'd likely be a good loss at that point I think. He seems like a prime suspect for wanting more money than he's worth, and by then we would have other dmen with just as much potential hopefully coming into their own.

 

I do see what you're saying with the right handedness, but I've personally always felt this to be overblown. I'll take the better dman over the one who happens to have a preferable dominant hand 9 out of 10 times myself. Bottom line with Hamilton for me is he seems like an overhyped and underwhelming player. I'm not very interested in that unless it's for cheap, and I don't consider trading Simmonds cheap.

 

Like you though, I'd be interested in a Simmonds trade, but I'd be looking for a goalie back. As I mentioned before, our goaltending was the biggest problem we had this season. That's not me being cliché either. Any look at whatever statistic you like will paint an awful picture with regards to our goaltending.

 

Without addressing that far more pressing problem, there's just no way we're going to be any more than a bubble team again next year imo. The single biggest and most impactful short term upgrade Hex could make is in goal. Adding another LW or another dman is always nice, but in our case they're not nearly as important right now.

 

Trading goalies is always a far more complicated situation of course. I'm not sure there would be a partner that makes any real sense. But if it's not possible, I probably side with others here and just try to start a bidding war for Simmonds and get actual contenders to overpay in some way.

 

The sad part right now is that we're effectively selling low on Simmonds if he's moved in the off season. Adding to that, with players like Patrick and TK coming into their own, I have a feeling Simmonds will be a third line and 2nd PP guy at best. That's going to further hurt his value, as he simply won't put up the points he has in previous years in that setup. On another team though, he's a 2RW and 1st PP guy. That's what he should be really.

 

It's a complicated situation for sure.

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Simmonds i's definitely worth at least a first rounder plus a top prospect . The Rangers got plenty for a much older, underachieving, softie Rick Nash. There are very few scoring power wings that score 30 goals a year. Simmonds i's a rare commodity. With an expiring contract, ab expansion draft and G and Voraceks big contracts, Simmonds has to be traded. A tip team that is a cup contender will pay big for a warrior like Simmonds. Even with multiple injuries and reduced ice time he got 25 goals.

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2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

The Flyers with a future ruskie line???

 

Rubtsov/Vorobyev/Kravtsov

 

????????? 

 

I'm impressed with Kravtsov, but I don't know that I like using #14 for him.  I actually really like the mocks who have us taking Kupari/Farabee/Kotkaniemi at #14 and Sandin at #19.   I like the idea of one of them being a defenseman.   But I'd stick with those 3 choices at #14 and entertain using #19 on Kravtsov.

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I've started to become interested in Berggren. I'm hoping to take some time next week and watch some shift-by-shifts of guys who look like they might fall where we pick to have a better feel for who I'm going to be disappointed the Flyers didn't draft. I do think I'm good with Kravtsov at 14 if Farrabee and Kotkaniemi are gone.

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49 minutes ago, sekkes85 said:

I'm taking Bode Wilde with 19 if he is there.  He has size, speed, and a cannon of a shot (RIGHT HANDED TOO!)

 

I'm really not excited about him, but I guess I'm okay at #19.   I keep seeing him being taken at #14, and I don't like the use of that pick for him at all.  Actually, I'd really rather Sandin at #19.   But you're right that he does have playing the right side with RH shot going for him.

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Check out this mock draft that was put up yesterday by a Sabres page:

 

https://www.diebytheblade.com/2018/6/6/17418608/2018-nhl-mock-draft-2-0-rasmus-dahlin-andrei-svechnikov-filip-zadina-montreal-canadiens-senators

 

It may be one of the worst mock drafts I've seen (check out the Habs' #3 pick while you're there), but it's interesting because it includes trades.   #14 is a whopper:

TRADE: OTTAWA SENATORS ACQUIRE 14TH OVERALL, (D) SAM MORIN & (F) MICHAEL RAFFL FOR (F) MIKE HOFFMAN & 95TH OVERALL (FOURTH-ROUND PICK)   

14. Ottawa Senators (via St. Louis Blues/Philadelphia Flyers) | Ty Smith - D - Spokane Chiefs

The Senators make a big move here to acquire their third pick of the first-round now. They grab their second defender in the speedy Smith, as well as another young defender and a former first-round pick in Sam Morin. The Flyers acquire that top six-winger that they’ve needed in Hoffman. They also are back up on the board at 19.

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9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Check out this mock draft that was put up yesterday by a Sabres page:

 

https://www.diebytheblade.com/2018/6/6/17418608/2018-nhl-mock-draft-2-0-rasmus-dahlin-andrei-svechnikov-filip-zadina-montreal-canadiens-senators

 

It may be one of the worst mock drafts I've seen (check out the Habs' #3 pick while you're there), but it's interesting because it includes trades.   #14 is a whopper:

TRADE: OTTAWA SENATORS ACQUIRE 14TH OVERALL, (D) SAM MORIN & (F) MICHAEL RAFFL FOR (F) MIKE HOFFMAN & 95TH OVERALL (FOURTH-ROUND PICK)   

14. Ottawa Senators (via St. Louis Blues/Philadelphia Flyers) | Ty Smith - D - Spokane Chiefs

The Senators make a big move here to acquire their third pick of the first-round now. They grab their second defender in the speedy Smith, as well as another young defender and a former first-round pick in Sam Morin. The Flyers acquire that top six-winger that they’ve needed in Hoffman. They also are back up on the board at 19.

The Flyers had better be getting more than just Hoffman and a pick for that package. I like Hoffman, but not at that price.

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Wow, that might be one of the worst mock drafts I've ever seen.... no thanks on that trade.  How about Morin (not sure why they are suggesting an injured player), Raffl, and a 4th for Mark Stone? Ottawa's owner isn't going to want to pay him lol

 

Agreed, I think there are better options at 14 than Wilde but I would be happy with him at 19th.  15 days and we'll figure out what the hell actually goes down!

 

 

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9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Check out this mock draft that was put up yesterday by a Sabres page:

 

https://www.diebytheblade.com/2018/6/6/17418608/2018-nhl-mock-draft-2-0-rasmus-dahlin-andrei-svechnikov-filip-zadina-montreal-canadiens-senators

 

It may be one of the worst mock drafts I've seen (check out the Habs' #3 pick while you're there), but it's interesting because it includes trades.   #14 is a whopper:

TRADE: OTTAWA SENATORS ACQUIRE 14TH OVERALL, (D) SAM MORIN & (F) MICHAEL RAFFL FOR (F) MIKE HOFFMAN & 95TH OVERALL (FOURTH-ROUND PICK)   

14. Ottawa Senators (via St. Louis Blues/Philadelphia Flyers) | Ty Smith - D - Spokane Chiefs

The Senators make a big move here to acquire their third pick of the first-round now. They grab their second defender in the speedy Smith, as well as another young defender and a former first-round pick in Sam Morin. The Flyers acquire that top six-winger that they’ve needed in Hoffman. They also are back up on the board at 19.

 

The Habs ARE in dire need of a centre....but they'd likely trade down a few spots instead of taking Kotkaniemi 3rd. That I could see them doing. 

 

Can't see Veleno going that high. Hope he does.

 

I'll be pissed if Farabee AND Hayton go right before our pick.

 

Noel 31st? The guy's 6'5" and can skate and score. He has his hiccups, but that's a pretty good package to fall almost to the 2nd round.

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41 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Check out this mock draft that was put up yesterday by a Sabres page:

 

https://www.diebytheblade.com/2018/6/6/17418608/2018-nhl-mock-draft-2-0-rasmus-dahlin-andrei-svechnikov-filip-zadina-montreal-canadiens-senators

 

It may be one of the worst mock drafts I've seen (check out the Habs' #3 pick while you're there), but it's interesting because it includes trades.   #14 is a whopper:

TRADE: OTTAWA SENATORS ACQUIRE 14TH OVERALL, (D) SAM MORIN & (F) MICHAEL RAFFL FOR (F) MIKE HOFFMAN & 95TH OVERALL (FOURTH-ROUND PICK)   

14. Ottawa Senators (via St. Louis Blues/Philadelphia Flyers) | Ty Smith - D - Spokane Chiefs

The Senators make a big move here to acquire their third pick of the first-round now. They grab their second defender in the speedy Smith, as well as another young defender and a former first-round pick in Sam Morin. The Flyers acquire that top six-winger that they’ve needed in Hoffman. They also are back up on the board at 19.

 

What the hell are they smoking???   Oh yeah .... its the Sabres .... enough said.

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23 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

What the hell are they smoking???   Oh yeah .... its the Sabres .... enough said.

Lol. Did you see the comment section?  For the most part the natives are "great job, Chad!  This is so plausible!". At least one Flyer fan registered solely for the purpose of telling him how dumb the #14 trade is. The responses to him were comical. 

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

(check out the Habs' #3 pick while you're there),

 

LOL .... How the hell does Jesperi Kotkaniemi jump Zadina. :dizzysmiley-1: The Habs GM should be terminated on the spot for that snafu.

44 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Lol. Did you see the comment section?  For the most part the natives are "great job, Chad!  This is so plausible!". At least one Flyer fan registered solely for the purpose of telling him how dumb the #14 trade is. The responses to him were comical. 

 

Well that was certainly entertaining.   Now I know where HJ gets hits hockey knowledge. Are all Sabre fans this utterly clueless. Good grief ........

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