Flyers 2018 draft discussion

[OccamsRazor]

Konecny

Allison

Kravstov

Aube Kubel

 

Would be a lethal rightside.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Wow, sorry.  Yeah, the only thing with either Kupari or Kravstov is we're going to have a RW problem.  LOL   Not a horrible problem to have or anything, but...

 

No need to be sorry.

 

It will be a hard choice if both are on the board.

 

And then you look at all the depth....and I'm just glad I don't have to make the call.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

Konecny

Allison

Kravstov

Aube Kubel

 

Would be a lethal rightside.

 

That would be awesome.   Kravtsov may actually pass Allison but no matter, still a cool lineup.   I've been thinking Ratcliffe is a RW but I just checked in the context of the RW depth, but he's actually a LW.   He may really be the LW we're looking for.  If Lindblom ends up working out on Patrick's left, he could be one hell of a LWer on the 3rd line.  This could be really fun in 2-3 years.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

It will be a hard choice if both are on the board.

 

From what I'm reading, Kravtsov is a bit more responsible defensively.  The defense can be coached and isn't a horrible thing at 18, but it could make Hextall stay away from Kupari.    Honestly, I really like both so I'm fine either way.   I'd love both, actually, but I really do think a defenseman at 19 is probably wise.   I vote for Sandin there, but Wilde (who plays right side) should still be sitting there.  I'm not excited about Wilde but his upside is pretty good.   See, this is why I don't make the big bucks.

[OccamsRazor]

8 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

That would be awesome.   Kravtsov may actually pass Allison but no matter, still a cool lineup.   I've been thinking Ratcliffe is a RW but I just checked in the context of the RW depth, but he's actually a LW.   He may really be the LW we're looking for.  If Lindblom ends up working out on Patrick's left, he could be one hell of a LWer on the 3rd line.  This could be really fun in 2-3 years.

 

Best part of that everyone you just named is 6-2 or bigger...so some much needed size is on the way.

[OccamsRazor]

I have seen this kid's name pop up lately in the first round don't know much about him...

 

 

 

...i have actually seen him labeled as a "sniper' which has lead to his quick rise up the draft boards...

 

Here is a highlight of him but not the best quality i think...

 

 

[AJgoal]

@ruxpin - you asked somewhere, but no to a goalie in the second round. if I'm the Flyers I go F at 14 and 19, then D at 50. The value just isn't likely to be at defense when the Flyers pick in the first round. I'm hoping for something like Farrabee/Kravtsov at 14 and Berggren/Kupari/Kaut at 19. Then take a swing at a defenseman in round two. If someone like Dobson slides towards 14, then that changes the board a bit, but I don't see that playing out.

 

Now if the Flyers want to use one of their fifths/fourth on a goalie to keep filtering them into the system, or a third if they acquire one in the next week and change, I'm ok with that. I don't think you can have too many goalie prospects in your system, and they're so wonky as to how they project - Fleury, Vasilievsky and Rask were first round picks, Quick was a third rounder, Holtby 4th round, Lundqvist 7th, Rinne 8th... There's just no telling where a top goalie is going to come from. So having as many as possible is the best way to get one, and unlike other positions, you have a pretty good shot of getting a great one in later rounds.

[ruxpin]

29 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

you asked somewhere, but no to a goalie in the second round

 

Yeah, I agree with both you and others on this.  My temptation was because Fisher's final 100 had Skarek sitting there at 50 and taken immediately after (first goalie in his draft).   But yeah, I agree on waiting.

 

I don't agree with the two forwards in the first round (though I get the reasoning and think we'd certainly come out with two pretty good forwards--I'm not excited about Farabee), but it's certainly possible that's what Hextall does.  I really want someone high caliber to replace the high caliber I'm fairly sure we're going to lose.  On defense, it's a much cheaper way to go about it than to trade for it.  And at #19, I think Sandin is actually really good value.  If not Wilde has high upside there (if risk for missing it).  

 

Yeah, if Dobson --or even Smith -- falls to #14 something has gone really weird in the top 13, but with so many defensemen in the top 10 maybe it's possible.  I think we miss out on some pretty good forwards at 14 if we do, but it might be something that has to be done.

[sekkes85]

Kupari/Farabee/Kravstov at 14

At 19, I would be perfectly fine with a trade back into mid twenties and pick up a 3rd and swing the fences with Bokk or Wilde if available.  

 

Bokk sounds like a potential steal in the late first.  Wilde will be a roll of the dice and could see him going anywhere from the teens to an early 2nd rounder.  He has the size, speed, and shot, it's just putting everything together.  He has the potential to be a dominant impact dman and is a RIGHT HANDED SHOT.

 

This draft is definitely loaded with talent and there will be a lot of steals when looking back in a few years.  I'm just glad we are in the position to have two decent first round picks.  And who knows, maybe we move up for a late first/early 2nd if Hextall sees someone he likes he usually makes it happen.

[OccamsRazor]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:34 AM, ruxpin said:

Kravtsov

 

After looking at a lot of different clips. Realizing the crazy depth the Flyers have a center....i have made my mind up.

 

Give me Kravtsov at #14.

 

And i would be ok with Sandin at #19.

[RonJeremy]

If we end up trading Simmonds, we are going to need a physical power wing who can score in traffic. Why not trade up for Tkachuk. Even if Simmonds isn't traded we are kind of soft up front. I'm tired of seeing the Flyers get pushed around. I also believe we need a shoot first guy on our team instead of guys who ruin great scoring chances by over passing or holding the puck too long. We need an old time Flyer on this team.

[OccamsRazor]

On 6/13/2018 at 10:53 AM, ruxpin said:

I think we miss out on some pretty good forwards at 14 if we do

 

Ok if IIRC it was you that was saying something about Kupari being risky.

 

At the time i wasn't aware of there being a risk with him.

 

And i think i asked you what meant by that (or was going and forgot to) anyways i can't if i did remember what your response was.

 

So the reason i am bringing it up now is that i have seen two different scouts mention his high skill but questioned his hockey IQ.

 

Well for myself that is scary i don't like dumb dumb players....some guys despite all the skill just can't be coached up.

 

So that is a red flag for me and makes me feel better about taking Kravtsov if he is there at #14.

[ruxpin]

31 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok if IIRC it was you that was saying something about Kupari being risky.

 

At the time i wasn't aware of there being a risk with him.

 

And i think i asked you what meant by that (or was going and forgot to) anyways i can't if i did remember what your response was.

 

So the reason i am bringing it up now is that i have seen two different scouts mention his high skill but questioned his hockey IQ.

 

Well for myself that is scary i don't like dumb dumb players....some guys despite all the skill just can't be coached up.

 

So that is a red flag for me and makes me feel better about taking Kravtsov if he is there at #14.

My vote is for Kravstov. I think the IQ thing with Kupari is harsh, but I'm thinking it's about his defensive play.  I think it's coachable, but I do think it will give Hextall and company pause. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I think it's coachable, but I do think it will give Hextall and company pause.

 

That combined with all the centers they have drafted last couple years...(not saying all of them will be centers)...

 

Fazleev

Vorobyev

Konecny (already converted to wing)

Lacynski

Bunnaman

Laberge

Rubstov

Forst

Patrick

 

So as you can that is a lot of resources spent at center.

 

So until a stud RW arrives i would continue there or LW even.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

13 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

My vote is for Kravstov. I think the IQ thing with Kupari is harsh, but I'm thinking it's about his defensive play.  I think it's coachable, but I do think it will give Hextall and company pause. 

 

In fairness, the same was said about Marian Hossa. Speed and offensive, but couldn't play a lick defensively. That's why part of me thinks if Kupari is the pick at 14, they need to convince him to cross the pond and play junior hockey in North America so that he'll get a chance to work on his defense while playing 18+ minutes a night and not be stuck on the fourth line getting peanuts for ice time in the men's pro league. 

[ruxpin]

25 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

In fairness, the same was said about Marian Hossa. Speed and offensive, but couldn't play a lick defensively. That's why part of me thinks if Kupari is the pick at 14, they need to convince him to cross the pond and play junior hockey in North America so that he'll get a chance to work on his defense while playing 18+ minutes a night and not be stuck on the fourth line getting peanuts for ice time in the men's pro league. 

 

I very much agree.  I really like Kupari.  And he does have a lot of offensive ability.  I think the "low IQ" thing is unfair (I've seen it too, OR, so that's not directed at you).  I really think it's about his defensive play which he'll learn.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

In fairness, the same was said about Marian Hossa. Speed and offensive, but couldn't play a lick defensively. That's why part of me thinks if Kupari is the pick at 14, they need to convince him to cross the pond and play junior hockey in North America so that he'll get a chance to work on his defense while playing 18+ minutes a night and not be stuck on the fourth line getting peanuts for ice time in the men's pro league. 

 

Well from what I was reading it wasn't just defense it was just hockey IQ overall. 

 

That is an issue.

[ruxpin]

Just going to put this here. I have seen a couple scouting reports negative about Kupari's hockey IQ, but I think they're horribly off and poorly argued.  My only concern was defense and sometimes looking disinterested (one of the reasons I want nothing to do with Noel).  But he's dynamic on offense and this scoring report specifically cites his hockey IQ as a strength. 

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/rasmus-kupari-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

 

 

[ruxpin]

This, too, says high hockey IQ. It's a Canuck site but the quotes from Future Considerations and Dobber (that specifically says high hockey IQ) are worth reading. 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2018/06/12/canucksarmys-2018-nhl-draft-profiles-18-rasmus-kupari/

 

I think the low hockey IQ thing comes from defense and is a bit harsh. 

[OccamsRazor]

22 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I really like Kupari. 

 

Flyers might have to settle for him because something tells me Kravtsov will be off the board by the time they pick at #14.

 

Something tells me he doesn't get past #11 the Isles hold.

 

The Isles have #12 too which i think they take a defenseman with.

 

I think Lou tries to find his Brian Rafalski with the #12. Ty Smith maybe??? 

[OccamsRazor]

@ruxpin

 

Here is a good read on the kid...

 

http://sonsofpenn.com/2018-nhl-draft-profile-vitali-kravtsovs-electrifying-game-could-entice-flyers/

 

Kravtsov is a player who pulls the fans out of their seats. He’s a dynamic player who can create offense whenever the puck is on his stick.

 

According to HockeyProspect.com’s Black Book, Kravtsov has “some of the most dynamic puck-skills out of any forward in this class.” Mike Morreale of NHL.com said Kravtsov reminds him of Evgeny Kuznetsov, and Goran Stubb – the NHL’s Director of European Scouting – praised how Kravtsov “matured and improved a lot over the season.”

 

Kravtsov has a great arsenal of tools when he’s in the offensive zone. He’s a great skater with a great pair of hands and rarely panics with the puck on his stick. His high hockey IQ allows him to see how the play is unfolding and react accordingly to it. His high acumen, as well as his ability to change directions quickly, has also proven beneficial when he needs to open up passing and shooting lanes.

 

As I mentioned before, Kratsov has a dynamic set of hands. He can dangle in traffic and utilize his vision to complement his tremendous passing skills. His combination of speed and stickhandling force defenders to back off. This allows him to use either his wrist shot or his snap shot, which both feature a quick release.

 

On the defensive side of the red line, Kravtsov’s game is a work in progress. He’s not a liability, but there is room for improvement. He puts in the effort to cover his man and battle for the loose pucks. Kravtsov is solid in clogging the shooting lanes, but his reaction time to identifying the play and where to be on the breakouts – according to Black Book – still needs some refinement.

 

Kravtsov has the ability to become a top-six wing in the NHL. Hockey Prospect scout Mark Edwards noted Kravtsov’s increased ice time and responsibility as he played more in the KHL. Kravtsov, Edwards said, also impressed during his interviews at the NHL Combine.

 

So with all this talent, what is making Kravtsov fall this far? Well, part of it is that he’s still under contract with Traktor next season. Although Black Book pointed out that despite his contract situation, Kravtsov said a possible route to the CHL would all depend on the team that drafts him and what they want.

 

Overall, Kravtsov’s lightning-rod game is appealing to say the least. Reading between the lines, the scouting reports I’ve read show there is a willingness to better his defensive game, which could entice Ron Hextall to scoop him up at the draft.

 

 

Might have to move up to get this kid.

[OccamsRazor]

On 6/13/2018 at 10:53 AM, ruxpin said:

If not Wilde has high upside there (if risk for missing it). 

 

 

 

 

 

HHHHhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

 

 

Interesting from Ron about Allison...

 

 

Maybe he prefers to finish on a strong note to hs college career...

[ruxpin]

27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Maybe he prefers to finish on a strong note to hs college career..

 

Interesting.  Hexgtall wants him to go pro to go play in the AHL?  Why would he do that?  Unless the thought is NHL.  But then you have to wonder what the rush is at RW.

 

Bode Wilde.   I'm not actually shocked.   I think Samuelsson has fallen significantly, though, so I don't get that part.  K'Andre Miller really could be our #19 pick.  He may go low 20s.

[pilldoc]

After @ruxpin drafted Kravtsov in our Mock Draft, for the Flyers, I am really starting to like this kid more and more.  Depending what happens in Chicago, I think there could be a real possibility he could go to the Hawks / Isles / or Stars.  All 3 could use a forward of his potential high ceiling.

[ruxpin]

29 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

After @ruxpin drafted Kravtsov in our Mock Draft, for the Flyers, I am really starting to like this kid more and more.  Depending what happens in Chicago, I think there could be a real possibility he could go to the Hawks / Isles / or Stars.  All 3 could use a forward of his potential high ceiling.

 

Possibly any of them.  Who knows, right?

 

I think Chicago is still in Kotkaniemi territory at their pick.   One of the Isles picks should be defenseman, but they worry me.  They could go Veleno or Hayton with the other pick if either is available, but Kravtsov would be a concern to me.   The Stars are the ones who really concern me.  They have enough coming in defense that they'll likely go forward.  To me, Kravtsov is their best bet at forward, but maybe they go Veleno, Hayton, Kupari, Farabee, Noel, or Kaut.    The Stars picking our guy is why I really like the idea of Mrazek & #14 for their #13.  I don't even need the third rounder back (it would be nice, but I don't think they give us that...maybe).

 

If Kravtsov is gone, I still want Kupari.  If he stays at center--which I doubt--I'm just not sure what I do with him in 3-4 years unless we're not resigning Couturier at 30.  Because I'm assuming Frost will still be at center and we're about fresh out of spots at that point.