Flyers 2018 draft discussion

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

@OccamsRazor

 

I would be wary about Nichushkin. He had some injury issues and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he go back to Russia??  I don't think he was on the Stars roster last year. Last I heard he was playing in the KHL. I personally would not risk it.

 

Yeah I am aware of his issues it is why i think it would be worth looking into to see if the Stars will sell low on him.

 

We are bargain shopping. Like the Eagles did with Ajayi. We heard rumors about him in Miami turns around and it lowers the asking price.

 

So you get Ajayi for a 4th round pick with two years left on his rookie contract. 

 

Turns out to be a steal.

 

You just have to do your homework on this type of stuff.

 

It isn't much different than rolling the dice on say Svechnikov with the #2 overall and what is to stop him from bolting to the KHL???

 

Nothing.

[ruxpin]

On 5/4/2018 at 10:55 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Yeah i would be cool with taking the BPAs available at both picks.

Yeah, I'd rather stay with 14 & 19.  If I'm moving up, it's for 3 or 4, not 5.  Starting with 5, BPAs are defensemen.  That's fine, but I'm not trading up for it at this point. Maybe for Zadina or Tkachuk at 3/4, but probably not even then.   I like some of the players that should be available when we pick. And if Hextall doesn't think so (ie., his preferences are gone), he should trade back or out when the time comes. 

 

I'm still drafting quantity at this point. 

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, brelic said:

I think it would start with the #14 and #19. What else? Does Simmonds get it done? I'm not sure it does... I feel like it would take a Konecny type - young player with proven upside. 

 

Thoughts?

 

If we're talking 2nd overall, I'm intrigued.   #14, our 2nd, and Myers.   If that's a no, I pick where we're slotted.

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, elmatus said:

TK? Yeah, maybe. That's a gamble though. TK was fantastic this year. If he solidifies himself as a top line winger in 2018-19, what more can we ask of him? Will Svech be better? Maybe. But will Svech plus whatever we get at 14 and 19 be better? I dunno... Say we get a mid-six player with either of those picks, I'd keep TK.

 

This.   I'm not moving TK for the #2.   If we were to draft Svech with #2, we'd have to move a RW, but I'd rather it be Simmonds or Voracek.  I'm okay dipping into the defense prospect pool to do it...Myers or Hagg.

 

But I'm perfectly content to stay at #14 & #19.

[ruxpin]

Somewhat off-topic:   Is anyone familiar with fansided.com?    They have a couple mock drafts posted, but what's their deal?   Is it just random clueless fans that don't follow prospects or teams posting their own draft mockery?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm not in the camp for moving up. Stay the status quo. It's going to cost an arm and a leg to move up. Don't do it. Just stay the course, add two more legitimate high end prospects in the 1st, move out some more junk, promote more youth and just continue filling the pipeline. Next year is the year to make a great big move. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Somewhat off-topic:   Is anyone familiar with fansided.com?    They have a couple mock drafts posted, but what's their deal?   Is it just random clueless fans that don't follow prospects or teams posting their own draft mockery?

Ahh, you must be talking about the draft that predicted the Flyers taking Jett Woo at 14 and Mattias Samuelsson at 19. I'm certain it's random fans. Hextall would do something like that and he'd be fired.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Ahh, you must be talking about the draft that predicted the Flyers taking Jett Woo at 14 and Mattias Samuelsson at 19. I'm certain it's random fans. Hextall would do something like that and he'd be fired.

 

That was the second one I read and decided I didn't need to read anymore.  The first one was bad, but the one you cite was just...wow.   Yeah, he gets fired for Woo at 14.   There was nothing remotely sane about that "mock draft."   I'm guessing it's flagrantly for whatever team he's a fan of.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm not in the camp for moving up. Stay the status quo. It's going to cost an arm and a leg to move up. Don't do it. Just stay the course, add two more legitimate high end prospects in the 1st, move out some more junk, promote more youth and just continue filling the pipeline. Next year is the year to make a great big move. 

 

What are the chances we trade back with #19?   I'm with you in the "just pick at #14 and #19."

 

But say you end up with a mid- to late-round 1st pick and a 2nd.  Or a lottery-eligible pick for next year and a second.   Say Buffalo wants to trade #32 this year and their first round next year for our #19.   I'm inclined to look long and hard at that.   Because I think they're still a top 10 pick next year.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

What are the chances we trade back with #19?   I'm with you in the "just pick at #14 and #19."

 

But say you end up with a mid- to late-round 1st pick and a 2nd.  Or a lottery-eligible pick for next year and a second.   Say Buffalo wants to trade #32 this year and their first round next year for our #19.   I'm inclined to look long and hard at that.   Because I think they're still a top 10 pick next year.

I'd be content with something like that. I have no problems with moving down in a deal like that. This is an incredibly deep draft and at 32, that could mean landing a guy like Calen Addison who has incredible upside. I'd certainly have no problems drafting a guy like that.

[OccamsRazor]

Yeah I'm not moving TK or even Myers.

 

Stay put.

 

Stack the prospects.

[flyercanuck]

14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

You just have to do your homework on this type of stuff.

 

It isn't much different than rolling the dice on say Svechnikov with the #2 overall and what is to stop him from bolting to the KHL???

 

Nothing.

 

If you do your homework you'll see Svechnikov came over here a few years ago to play in the USHL and then Canadian junior. He looks like he fits right in in North America. he plays an NHL style game and has zero problem with going into the dirty areas of the rink or playing a physical style. Nothing I've seen from this kid says he wants to play in the K.

 

 No way I'm I trading our 2-1sts AND Konecny though. But I'd love for the Flyers to get him.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

If you do your homework you'll see Svechnikov came over here a few years ago to play in the USHL and then Canadian junior. He looks like he fits right in in North America. he plays an NHL style game and has zero problem with going into the dirty areas of the rink or playing a physical style. Nothing I've seen from this kid says he wants to play in the K.

 

 No way I'm I trading our 2-1sts AND Konecny though. But I'd love for the Flyers to get him.

 

No way the Canes trade away a chance to draft him.

 

It would have to be a gross overpayment.

[sekkes85]

I can't believe the number of people that aren't for trading up to #2 if the offer is there.  We already have a lot of talent, at this point we need quality over quantity.  If we give up 14, 19, and Myers it would absolutely be worth it.  Especially if Simmonds is on his way out of town, I think we could get a 1st back for him or substitute him for one of the picks to Carolina and change Myers to a lesser prospect.  I really don't see Carolina moving the pick though so we'll see how this unfolds.

 

As for using the NFL point system for a NHL draft it is 100% not even close to being valid for the NHL.  

[brelic]

1 hour ago, sekkes85 said:

I can't believe the number of people that aren't for trading up to #2 if the offer is there.  We already have a lot of talent, at this point we need quality over quantity.  If we give up 14, 19, and Myers it would absolutely be worth it.  Especially if Simmonds is on his way out of town, I think we could get a 1st back for him or substitute him for one of the picks to Carolina and change Myers to a lesser prospect.  I really don't see Carolina moving the pick though so we'll see how this unfolds.

 

As for using the NFL point system for a NHL draft it is 100% not even close to being valid for the NHL.  

 

You make a good point, and I tend to agree that Hextall should be moving from quantity to quality, if he follows his own words about where he thinks this team is.

 

That's one of the major advantages of going for quantity at first - you have assets to help fill other areas when the time comes. 

 

I would absolutely trade Konecny for the #2, if TK weren't TK. By that I mean his  personality, his on-ice fire. In other words, if it were Brayden Schenn at TK's age and production, I would make that swap in a heartbeat.

 

That being said, I'd be ok with moving any player on the Flyers or elsewhere in the Flyers system not named Giroux, Couturier, Patrick, TK, Provorov, Ghost, and Hart if it lands us the #2 pick.

 

 

[ruxpin]

34 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

That being said, I'd be ok with moving any player on the Flyers or elsewhere in the Flyers system not on the Flyers or elsewhere in the Flyers system. 

Lol. I thought this phrasing was easier. 

[brelic]

22 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Lol. I thought this phrasing was easier. 

 

Lol that's what happens when you type faster than you can think and type when you think faster than typing than you can think!

[RonJeremy]

Montreal picks third. This is a team without many prospects that needs help in all areas. This is where quantity for quality could apply. A team with no immediate future would probably rather have two top 20 picks instead of the third pick. Maybe we can swing a deal with them.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Montreal picks third. This is a team without many prospects that needs help in all areas. This is where quantity for quality could apply. A team with no immediate future would probably rather have two top 20 picks instead of the third pick. Maybe we can swing a deal with them.

Bergevin has done dumber things.  It's plausible. 

 

Honestly, if it's not for Dahlin or Svech, I probably stick with 14 & 19.  Maybe wait and see who Buffalo and Carolina pick. If either is still there and Bergevin is dumb enough to trade it away, do it. 

 

Unless it's down, I'd be stunned if Hextall trades these picks. I'm willing to bet he's still in volume (quantity) mode. 

 

 

[brelic]

16 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Montreal picks third. This is a team without many prospects that needs help in all areas. This is where quantity for quality could apply. A team with no immediate future would probably rather have two top 20 picks instead of the third pick. Maybe we can swing a deal with them.

 

This might sound crazy, but it could be a situation where we flip Jake for Pacioretty, and swap 1st rounders (probably not both?) and whatever else from both sides to get it done.

 

Montreal gets a slightly younger forward under contract, and we get a guy with no future in Montreal who can score goals on an expiring contract (currently $4.5M / year). 

 

Not sure if it's a sideways move or not. Would you resign Max? I don't know, maybe see how it goes. He would definitely be cheaper than Jake.

 

Just a random out-of-nowhere thought on a slow day. 

[AJgoal]

18 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah I am aware of his issues it is why i think it would be worth looking into to see if the Stars will sell low on him.

 

We are bargain shopping. Like the Eagles did with Ajayi. We heard rumors about him in Miami turns around and it lowers the asking price.

 

You're advocating paying a high price for something out of the bargain bin.  

 

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Bergevin has done dumber things.  It's plausible. 

 

Honestly, if it's not for Dahlin or Svech, I probably stick with 14 & 19.  Maybe wait and see who Buffalo and Carolina pick. If either is still there and Bergevin is dumb enough to trade it away, do it. 

 

Unless it's down, I'd be stunned if Hextall trades these picks. I'm willing to bet he's still in volume (quantity) mode. 

 

 

 

He did say he would look into trading up, but I doubt he would (or honestly, could) go up that far. Teams willing to move back from a pick that high are looking to go back a couple slots. Not 10-12.

[brelic]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Unless it's down, I'd be stunned if Hextall trades these picks. I'm willing to bet he's still in volume (quantity) mode. 

 

Really? I've been getting the impression that it's the opposite. He seems poised to treat next season like taking off the training wheels and actively improving the quality on the ice. 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Really? I've been getting the impression that it's the opposite. He seems poised to treat next season like taking off the training wheels and actively improving the quality on the ice. 

 

It's possible, for sure.   And Holmgren's comments almost sounded like instruction (regarding signings, anyway).  If I were to put money on it, it's stay with the plan (if i were to actually put money on it, you should bet your house against me and make a mint!).  

 

I just don't see him trading a boat for picks 2-5.  And, really, if he's moving for 6-10 it's very likely a defenseman in that range.   I'm not sure how I feel about trading the possibility of Farabee or Kupari or someone in the 14 slot to move up for another defenseman that likely won't be ready for another 2-3 years.  Maybe.  And someone here has stated it might be time to go defenseman with another first rounder.  So maybe.    I don't know how plausible it is, but i would really entertain the idea of trading back with the #19 to the early first round and hedge bets on a top pick next year.  You keep your #14 that way and have the potential of a top pick next year.   Like I said, though, I'm not sure how plausible that is.

 

More than moving up--and I don't know for whom--I could see him trading one or the other first round picks for a current-playing position player.  Not only don't I know who, I don't even know how to narrow it down to forward, defenseman, or goalie.  I just think with the open cap space, I could see him bringing back salary with one of those picks.

 

Would the #19 and Gudas get you Hamilton from Calgary, for example.  And would you do that if it would?  

Or a #19 and something--I like trading Gudas--for Raanta?   His two years remaining on his contract gets you the bridge.  I'm not sure #19 isn't an over-payment, but I also don't think Arizona has a viable option in goal.

Or the #14 and Gudas (insert other name) for Rakell from Anaheim. 

One of the picks and something for Anisimov, Galchenyuk (if the Habs have soured on the latter, they may entertain the possibility of multiple first round picks.  Their 3rd and either 14 or 19)?

What about Faksa as a 3C?    Dallas needs a Dman.  Trade them Gudas!   I don't know that he's worth a 1st and Gudas, though, or that I'd spend my 1st on a 3C in any case.

 

Some of these are probably absurd, but just throwing out examples that...I just wonder if a pick and something with salary coming back isn't more likely than moving up.

[ruxpin]

What about Ryan Nugent-Hopkins?   I'm actually not sure what I think about him, but it might get us a 3C and the Oilers have at least one idiotic move an off-season in them.  Hell, it's Chiarelli, so maybe we could get Larsson out of it, too.

 

While I'm hoping for stupid moves from opponent GMs, kick the tires with Ottawa on Hoffman.

[pilldoc]

Typing on my phone from Disney World while waiting for a Frozen show. (Hey it's my daughters favorite  movie). Just a quick comment on moving up. I know someone mentioned value of picks. Can't post the link right now. 14 and 19 only get you around 6. If Montreal is giving #2 I have to believe they want a significant player. I don't think Jake does it. I say no to TK. But hey what do I know... except it's hot here in Florida and I hate typing on my phone.