In game trash talkin'

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well one thing is clear after this year Ron needs to go find two other goalies for this club because their starter ain't on the roster.

 

Hart is the future but he needs time in the AHL.

 

No way Hextall can just stand pat another year.

 

This club needs to be pushing for the 2nd round next year and no way they can do that with these turnstiles in net.

 

Who would be available I wonder? I feel like neither Elliott nor Mrazek were ever desired choices. They were both what was available (without overpayment) at the time of their respective signing. Or do you think Hexy should start moving top prospects and top six players to get a goalie for next year? (That's not sarcastic btw. It's a serious question.)

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, notfondajane said:

Hey! It could be worse, you could have Marc Andre Fleury! Hehehe 

 

We may all joke about MAF and his past playoff failures, BUT he SAVED the Pens playoff run last year. 

 

I'll take him over our 3 jokers anytime of year ..........

 

MAF >>>>> Elliot/Neuvy/Mrazek

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Who would be available I wonder? I feel like neither Elliott nor Mrazek were ever desired choices. They were both what was available (without overpayment) at the time of their respective signing. Or do you think Hexy should start moving top prospects and top six players to get a goalie for next year? (That's not sarcastic btw. It's a serious question.)

 

Not sure. I just know there has to be better options out there....

[B21]

2 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

 

 

Here's some more interesting stats...

 

Elliott's last 8 playoff games:
0-7-0, 27 goals on 182 shots (.851SA%). 4.34 GAA 

 

Couturier scored 3 goals, and added 1 assist in his 2nd career playoff game back in 2012, but has failed to register a single point in his other 19 playoff games. 

 

Mrazek's playoff numbers are so much better. Hak needs to go with him 

 

Not to throw salt in the Wound but Coots only had 2 goals in his last 24 regular season games this year as well. Has to be better.

[B21]

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

You mean the guy who got a 30 save shut out last night?

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/los-angeles-kings-vegas-golden-knights-game-1-recap/c-297916602?tid=297171006

 

Beat me to it! In a 1-0 win no less. No pressure. 

[brelic]

27 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not sure. I just know there has to be better options out there....

 

Unless you can trade both Elliott and Neuvirth, I think we're stuck with them for another year. Surely he will get rid of Neuvirth - I think it's untenable to bring him back.

 

 

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Unless you can trade both Elliott and Neuvirth, I think we're stuck with them for another year. Surely he will get rid of Neuvirth - I think it's untenable to bring him back.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not sure. I just know there has to be better options out there....

 

For the sake of conversation then, here is a list of pending UFA goalies for this season:

 

*Based on GP this season and ordered by cap hit

 

Kari Lehtonen | 34 yrs old | 5,9mil cap hit

Jaroslav Halak | 32 | 5,4

Cam Ward | 34 | 3,3

Jonathan Bernier | 29 | 2,8

Chad Johnson | 31 | 2,5

Ondrej Pavalec | 30 | 1,3

Anton Khudobin | 32 | 1,2

Carter Hutton | 32 | 1,2

Antti Niemi | 34 | 0,7

Scott Wedgewood | 25 | 0,7

 

To get better than that list, it would have to be in a trade. We'd likely have to move some combination of high prospects, top six players, or 1st round picks. Is that something we would like Hexy to consider? If so, who would you target, and what would you offer?

[Podein25]

22 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Jonathan Bernier

 

Yass.

[RJ8812]

The ****** part is Neuvirth is the most talented of our goalies. He just can't stay healthy 

[Cheesesteak]

14 hours ago, FD19372 said:

For this team, it's Stevie Wonder.

lol...reminded me of when Stevie Wonder sang at the Super Bowl...I was at a party watching and Stevie came out to the stage in a golf cart.  I kept pointing out to everyone that Yeah, but LOOK, he's in the driver's seat.  LOL

[brelic]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

 

For the sake of conversation then, here is a list of pending UFA goalies for this season:

 

*Based on GP this season and ordered by cap hit

 

Kari Lehtonen | 34 yrs old | 5,9mil cap hit

Jaroslav Halak | 32 | 5,4

Cam Ward | 34 | 3,3

Jonathan Bernier | 29 | 2,8

Chad Johnson | 31 | 2,5

Ondrej Pavalec | 30 | 1,3

Anton Khudobin | 32 | 1,2

Carter Hutton | 32 | 1,2

Antti Niemi | 34 | 0,7

Scott Wedgewood | 25 | 0,7

 

To get better than that list, it would have to be in a trade. We'd likely have to move some combination of high prospects, top six players, or 1st round picks. Is that something we would like Hexy to consider? If so, who would you target, and what would you offer?

 

Meh. It's a lot more of the same. None of those guys are significantly better than Elliott.

 

And while goaltending is the problem that gets magnified, it's our defensive brainfarts that get a pass. Upgrade the bottom defensive pairing, and watch our goaltending get magically better.

 

Brian Elliott is the same dude that posted 4 out of 5 seasons above .917 in StL (.917, .922, .930, .940).

 

If weak goaltending across FOUR different goalies is the symptom, then team defense is the disease.

 

I would let Manning walk, and trade Gudas. The problem is that Morin will be one of the replacements - and I say 'problem' because he will go through the same rookie mistakes and frustrations (not to mention a growing injury history) that the other guys went through. So it might not get better in the short term.

 

So if our defense looks like this:

 

Provocop/Ghost

Sanheim/MacDonald

Morin/Hagg

 

Is that an upgrade? I'm actually not so sure. FOUR guys under the age of 23.

 

Thoughts on how to improve the defense quicker? Would a trade (Hagg? Morin?) for a more 'polished' guy be a good idea?

 

[elmatus]

29 minutes ago, brelic said:

Would a trade (Hagg? Morin?) for a more 'polished' guy be a good idea?

 

Good points. As for trading, I think Morin deserves a legit shot before the trade rumours start flying. Hagg likely deserves a second season as well, so I wouldn't actively try to move either one. If a great offer came around involving Hagg though, I may consider it.

 

Honestly, I was not so very impressed with Hagg. Don't get me wrong, I like the hitting and he was clearly a presence, but I wouldn't say he was any kind of stalwart defensive player. He may get better in his second season of course, and I do hope he does. This year's Hagg was a third pairing guy for sure. Hopefully he can turn that into a second pairing guy next year.

 

But given what he showed this year, if a team was willing to part with a potential starting goaltender for Simmonds, Hagg, and a 3rd or something, I might actually consider it. I don't really have anyone in mind when I say that though. It would definitely have to be someone worthwhile, which is a crapshoot more often than not with goalies.

 

Also, as we talked about earlier, I was never a fan of Elliott or Bryz for the exact same reasons: Their solid seasons were pretty clearly the product of being on very defensively minded teams with strong defensive defensemen.

 

STL back in those years had possibly the best defensive system in the league -- though the Kings and Bruins might challenge that. ARI was also above average on the back end in those days. To me, acquiring goaltenders from teams like that is always a greater risk. Given that, I was not surprised at all when they turned into poor netminders.

 

All to say that if a trade were to happen for a goaltender -- and honestly I'm not sure it's such a terrible idea -- I really hope it isn't for someone from that kind of team. Don't go fishing for Juuse Saros or Anton Khudobin because they've had pretty decent seasons this year. At the very least, don't overpay to get that kind of guy. They're also clearly benefiting from strong defensive players on their teams, which makes their individual contributions more suspect to me.

 

Does anyone fit the bill who isn't in that category? Maybe.

[RJ8812]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Meh. It's a lot more of the same. None of those guys are significantly better than Elliott.

 

And while goaltending is the problem that gets magnified, it's our defensive brainfarts that get a pass. Upgrade the bottom defensive pairing, and watch our goaltending get magically better.

 

Brian Elliott is the same dude that posted 4 out of 5 seasons above .917 in StL (.917, .922, .930, .940).

 

If weak goaltending across FOUR different goalies is the symptom, then team defense is the disease.

 

I would let Manning walk, and trade Gudas. The problem is that Morin will be one of the replacements - and I say 'problem' because he will go through the same rookie mistakes and frustrations (not to mention a growing injury history) that the other guys went through. So it might not get better in the short term.

 

So if our defense looks like this:

 

Provocop/Ghost

Sanheim/MacDonald

Morin/Hagg

 

Is that an upgrade? I'm actually not so sure. FOUR guys under the age of 23.

 

Thoughts on how to improve the defense quicker? Would a trade (Hagg? Morin?) for a more 'polished' guy be a good idea?

 

Hagg and Morin would be a disaster together. If you're trading Gudas, you need to bring in another vet, that's why I think Gudas stays for now.

 

Realistically next season we are probably looking at...

 

Provorov-Gostisbehere 

Sanheim-Gudas

Morin/Hagg-MacDonald

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Unless you can trade both Elliott and Neuvirth, I think we're stuck with them for another year. Surely he will get rid of Neuvirth - I think it's untenable to bring him back.

 

 

 

Not really you could move one or both and eat half the salary or trade one and waive the other to the AHL (and if needed later he could be recalled) and take a loss on the cap space since they will have plenty...so yeah there is a way out....he just has to want it. I'm afraid we have a GM who is as stubborn as his coach.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, elmatus said:

To get better than that list, it would have to be in a trade

 

Yeah the list isn't exactly encouraging i know.

 

They made the playoffs so next year we should see even more progression and with the collection of misfits they have i can't see it happening again. Especially when they barely got in. I surely expect the rest of the teams they are fighting to try and get better.

 

So why would they stand pat in net???

 

The fans deserve more.......no way in hell i would fork out the $$$$ and time to go watch this hot garbage on most nights live...no f**king way!!!!!!

 

But doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition  of you know...

[Pucked in the head]

I like the comment someone made re: Holtby, taking the back seat to gruby 3 mil for two years a pc. He needs a change,we need a goalie upgrade til the prospects are ready. Hell no to mrazek, neuvy, ...Elliot? As a backup role to come in and steal a game or two when Holtby needs a break (although that would require a coach that could recognize when his starter needs a break)... But I like the idea

[Pucked in the head]

And by the way, where the hell was the sticking up for your teammates when they checked lindblom into the curved glass part of the boards ( Chara like)???? 

[brelic]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not really you could move one or both and eat half the salary or trade one and waive the other to the AHL (and if needed later he could be recalled) and take a loss on the cap space since they will have plenty...so yeah there is a way out....he just has to want it. I'm afraid we have a GM who is as stubborn as his coach.

 

Yes, they could do all that, but I doubt they will. Waiving one to the AHL takes up a spot for Stolarz or Hart... likely Stolarz. He could definitely move one in a trade. But which one? Elliott is the more reliable of the two, and he can easily be traded. So is Stolarz/Neuvirth an upgrade? And who starts? I don't trust either. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

It's a recipe for disaster.

 

 

They're already there.

[elmatus]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Especially when they barely got in. I surely expect the rest of the teams they are fighting to try and get better.

 

I agree. In fact this worries me a fair bit at this point.

 

Giroux has been amazing this season, but let's be honest, there's a very good chance this will go down as his career year. I don't think it's smart to expect him to be in the 100 range going forward. So let's say he reverts to around 70-80 pts, which is still very good obviously. That would likely mean a drop for Couturier as well, though I think he's still good for say 60 pts. Voracek being Voracek, I think 60-70 is more likely than the ~85 he put up this year as well.

 

In short, the year those guys have had this year is probably not something we're going to get every year from here on out. We're going to need some of the kids to pick up the slack, which I do think they can and should do. How much of an improvement we get from them is more difficult to gauge of course.

 

Let's say Patrick and TK can improve to 40-50 pts. Lindblom with a full season may get 30 or something. Would that be enough to compensate for a drop off from this year's big three? Maybe with better goaltending...

[notfondajane]

On 4/12/2018 at 9:32 AM, pilldoc said:

 

We may all joke about MAF and his past playoff failures, BUT he SAVED the Pens playoff run last year. 

 

I'll take him over our 3 jokers anytime of year ..........

 

MAF >>>>> Elliot/Neuvy/Mrazek

Why? His teammates probably had to make 2/3 of those saves. The 10 that he made were by accident. 

[flyer4ever]

The goaltending is just as soft as the rest of the team, no more or less. They are nice guys though, which seems to be a requisite for this chat group! When you lie down as a team and lose by a touchdown and the coach makes zero line up changes..........Fill in the rest of the sentence.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, elmatus said:

Maybe with better goaltending...

 

 

No matter what else happens as you listed this is paramount.

 

Young teams will make mistakes.

 

They need a goalie to help bail them out sometimes...make the routine saves and then every now and then rob the other team...help the teams by not having every mistake in up in the net.

 

Watch the other games....other teams are getting it......Flyers are not. This has to be fixed by next year.

[OccamsRazor]

@elmatus

 

I would go out and try and sign Carter Hutton to a two year deal. I think he would be an upgrade over what they have now.

 

Maybe he would comeback to Philly.

[elmatus]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

@elmatus

 

I would go out and try and sign Carter Hutton to a two year deal. I think he would be an upgrade over what they have now.

 

Maybe he would comeback to Philly.

 

Meh. There's probably a reason he's been a career back up. Of the rather uninspired list I mentioned earlier, I would probably target Bernier. He's not the most consistent, but he may be the most talented.