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Hakstol experiment over


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20 hours ago, radoran said:

 

My line of reasoning is that the two of them need to actually produce in the playoffs or all the regular season success in the world doesn't matter. See: Capitals, Washington.

 

Are there other problems? Of course there are. And the topic of the thread is one of them. And the goaltending. And the young defense. And the lack of playoff experience. And the lack of support from the bottom 6.

 

So, aside from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

 

Are there positives? Yes. Provorov. Patrick. Konecny. Couturier. And I still like Ghost, even with his -7.

 

But what's most worrisome is that - as has been noted by many others in this thread - the team just rolled over and played dead. In the playoffs. At home. Against a heated rival.

 

Dead.

 

I may just get a little nihilistic about the squad when they do that. And they only have problems in coaching, goaltending, defense, experience and depth.

 

Is some of that on the coach? Yes, it is. Is some of that on the players as a whole? Yes, it is.

 

Is some of that on the Captain? In my mind, it is. YMMV

 

Because, let's face it, we don't give that benefit of the doubt to Alexander Ovechkin when his teams flame out in the playoffs and he's at least got 29 points in his 39 playoff games over three years and criticized for lack of production and results.

 

I think criticizing three points in ten playoff games over three years is fair game.

thanks for this .

 

A quarter to midway through the second period of game 4 until the end was difficult to watch.

I can remember being on both ends of ass kickings like that. When nothing seems to be going your way, it doesn't matter what the leaders say or do.

As you have mentioned numerous times Claude has never been a captain prior to the NHL. So I give him some latitude when it comes to how he leads since he is still learning.  I think he did a nice job in game 5 I hope it continues. 

 

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43 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

thanks for this .

 

A quarter to midway through the second period of game 4 until the end was difficult to watch.

I can remember being on both ends of ass kickings like that. When nothing seems to be going your way, it doesn't matter what the leaders say or do.

As you have mentioned numerous times Claude has never been a captain prior to the NHL. So I give him some latitude when it comes to how he leads since he is still learning.  I think he did a nice job in game 5 I hope it continues. 

 

 

He's been Captain for five years and he's 30. He's going to have to have learned at some point, no?

 

It was good to see them step up in Game 5. That said, we need to expect more if they are going to get past the first round. They're still in a hole and the Pens are still clicking and getting their chances.

 

I think it's obvious we will see Neuvirth, who is capable of stealing a game or two (if we don't, expect this thread to return to topic lol). Of course, he's also capable of tripping over the back line and injuring himself...

 

I'd love to see then steal this from the Pens, but I need to SEE it :thumbsu:

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3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

He's been Captain for five years and he's 30. He's going to have to have learned at some point, no?

 

It was good to see them step up in Game 5. That said, we need to expect more if they are going to get past the first round. They're still in a hole and the Pens are still clicking and getting their chances.

 

I think it's obvious we will see Neuvirth, who is capable of stealing a game or two (if we don't, expect this thread to return to topic lol). Of course, he's also capable of tripping over the back line and injuring himself...

 

I'd love to see then steal this from the Pens, but I need to SEE it :thumbsu:

Are you done learning?

I'm not. I'm 48. 

Here's another thing, through my lens, until something happens to me directly, I have little frame of reference for how to handle it. He's been captain of a team for 2 playoff runs, of 11 games... not a whole lot of captaining to draw upon. 

You can say, "well I'd do this", but until you're there in that moment, you don't really know. There is no experience to fall back on, see?  A person can remember how someone else did it, but again, maybe that someone else was an asshole, or maybe that someone else did it perfectly, that still needs to get translated into me and my style. 

That is the point I'm trying to make when I say I give him some leeway with the leadership business.

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27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Are you done learning?

I'm not. I'm 48. 

Here's another thing, through my lens, until something happens to me directly, I have little frame of reference for how to handle it. He's been captain of a team for 2 playoff runs, of 11 games... not a whole lot of captaining to draw upon. 

You can say, "well I'd do this", but until you're there in that moment, you don't really know. There is no experience to fall back on, see?  A person can remember how someone else did it, but again, maybe that someone else was an asshole, or maybe that someone else did it perfectly, that still needs to get translated into me and my style. 

That is the point I'm trying to make when I say I give him some leeway with the leadership business.

 

I have no problem with leeway and I see your point. They are also playing a seasoned veteran squad that only has the last two Cups on their resume.

 

That said, this is his third playoff series as Captain. And there is a point where you have to actually win one the first time.

 

The Flyers shouldn't have been favored in this series, but they've got to do better than being blown off the ice in three games.

 

Sunday is a huge game for this franchise and this Captain. It would help him tremendously to have a few more The Shifts in him.

 

And to go back to Pittsburgh for game 7 having already won 2 of 3 in the series - and a historic ability to get into Crosby's head - would be a terrific opportunity to silence the critics and establish himself as the leader who can lift this current core to another level.

 

I think that's what Flyer fans have been conditioned to expect from their captain. And it's what he has mentioned when talking about seeing how the city embraces champions. 

 

Playoff success is the only thing missing from his legacy. And it makes the big hole they are in just a little deeper.

 

Doesn't mean "Giroux is suk" - it means he needs to go do it.

 

I hope he does.

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3 hours ago, radoran said:

It would help him tremendously to have a few more The Shifts in him.

 

 

I agree to start my statement. But they need to do better in the face off circle too they got owned only winning 38% in the last game.

 

And then i hate to start again with the refs but damn and they had to play the refs too.

 

Only getting 1 PP to the Pens 5 and then not giving up a PP goal is it more luck?? The Pens not playing so great or a better goalie in net??

 

I say all 3....it don't hurt to be lucky.

 

Man there were some egregious calls the Flyers escaped from they need to count their blessings.

 

giphy.gif

 

This should have been called after seeing the weak crap called. Lucky G wasn't hurt.

 

And then Greg Louganis would be proud of these two...

 

giphy.gif

 

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and the Oscar goes to...

 

Then not sure how Mcdud gets called for roughing here just from hugging the guy?? Really???

 

giphy.gif

 

Then a guy falls and i guess it MUST be on the Flyers....terrible...

 

giphy.gif

 

And the non call on Neuvy here...because he committed grand larceny to close it out!!!!! WHAT A SAVE!!!!!

 

giphy.gif

 

However it was nice to see the Pens gets a dose of karma...

 

giphy.gif

 

...trying to slew foot a guy and hurt himself...

 

...so much for the refs evening it out during the game!!!!!!

 

 

Now it is just one game at a time...Flyers play their 2nd elimination game tomorrow...let's see what they got!!!!!

 

Need to get a nice lead and keep the refs influence out of it as much as possible. 

 

 

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Missing that slew foot in the 3rd period or whatever it was horrible, but they just were not able to apply pressure enough, and too often they were passive like Ghost was on more than one occasion, and gave good shots up. There comes a point where you have to shoot pucks, and not worry about them being blocked.

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4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Missing that slew foot in the 3rd period or whatever it was horrible, but they just were not able to apply pressure enough, and too often they were passive like Ghost was on more than one occasion, and gave good shots up. There comes a point where you have to shoot pucks, and not worry about them being blocked.

 

Yeah only Coots came to play.

 

Unacceptable loss.

 

Ron has a lot of work to do this offseason.

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Coots on one leg was unbelievable! 

 

I also think Simmonds had some fire today and played his best game of the series. 

 

But they got zip, zero, nada from two players being paid a combined $16+ million.  

 

#IHATEJAKE:smallTM:

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Just now, Samifan said:

Coots on one leg was unbelievable! 

 

I also think Simmonds had some fire today and played his best game of the series. 

 

But they got zip, zero, nada from two players being paid a combined $16+ million.  

 

#IHATEJAKE:smallTM:

I said it before, and I'll say it again...Jake Voracek is Czech for inconsistent floater.

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18 goals against in 3 home games. Name an aspect of the game that isn't broken. Goaltending - poor, defence-poor, forwards poor, coaching matchups poor, special teams horrendous, physical play, horrendous, etc etc etc. team defence is about all 6 guys on the ice, not just goal and defence. Its about getting the puck out when the chance arises, its about hitting and taking a hit to make a play, its about leadership and responsibility, its about not getting outworked. For the everybody gets a ribbon brigade, its wonderful and a miracle they won 2 games. For the Hextall has a chance to learn where they are at group, if he didn't already know he should be fired. I will not be swayed from my opinion that a lottery pick in this draft would have been better for the Flyers going forward. I really don't see how this experience was beneficial, especially with the roster decisions the coach made. I would much rather see a young fast exciting team play physical hard hockey and lose every game than this bandaid line up sneak into the playoffs and get embarrassed in their own building 3 times. And this is not the sky is falling, its not doomsday, I have been saying the same thing for 5 years. BLOW IT UP.

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51 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

18 goals against in 3 home games. Name an aspect of the game that isn't broken. Goaltending - poor, defence-poor, forwards poor, coaching matchups poor, special teams horrendous, physical play, horrendous, etc etc etc. team defence is about all 6 guys on the ice, not just goal and defence. Its about getting the puck out when the chance arises, its about hitting and taking a hit to make a play, its about leadership and responsibility, its about not getting outworked. For the everybody gets a ribbon brigade, its wonderful and a miracle they won 2 games. For the Hextall has a chance to learn where they are at group, if he didn't already know he should be fired. I will not be swayed from my opinion that a lottery pick in this draft would have been better for the Flyers going forward. I really don't see how this experience was beneficial, especially with the roster decisions the coach made. I would much rather see a young fast exciting team play physical hard hockey and lose every game than this bandaid line up sneak into the playoffs and get embarrassed in their own building 3 times. And this is not the sky is falling, its not doomsday, I have been saying the same thing for 5 years. BLOW IT UP.

Blow it up? Hextall has been trying to clean up Holmgren's bullshit mess and rebuild the farm system. No one expected them to make the playoffs this year but I guess they should have thrown the final regular season game so they could miss the playoffs by one point and end up drafting 15th overall and unless they were going to end up with the 1st overall pick to choose the Swedish defenseman, Dahlin, there isn't any other top rated prospects that can step in right away. Hextall has to realize that Hakstol isn't the right coach for this team and keep getting rid of dead weight like Gudas, Weisse and some other players. i understand your frustration but it Keith Allen 7 years to building the Stanley Cup winning team in the 70's so this will take time. Hexie has to evaluate who he thinks are the core group going forward, trade some players like Voracek and Simmons to get young players and picks and go from there.

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11 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

18 goals against in 3 home games. Name an aspect of the game that isn't broken. Goaltending - poor, defence-poor, forwards poor, coaching matchups poor, special teams horrendous, physical play, horrendous, etc etc etc. team defence is about all 6 guys on the ice, not just goal and defence. Its about getting the puck out when the chance arises, its about hitting and taking a hit to make a play, its about leadership and responsibility, its about not getting outworked. For the everybody gets a ribbon brigade, its wonderful and a miracle they won 2 games. For the Hextall has a chance to learn where they are at group, if he didn't already know he should be fired. I will not be swayed from my opinion that a lottery pick in this draft would have been better for the Flyers going forward. I really don't see how this experience was beneficial, especially with the roster decisions the coach made. I would much rather see a young fast exciting team play physical hard hockey and lose every game than this bandaid line up sneak into the playoffs and get embarrassed in their own building 3 times. And this is not the sky is falling, its not doomsday, I have been saying the same thing for 5 years. BLOW IT UP.

 

You've got to be fun at parties.

 

Yes it absolutely is.   The length of time you've been yelling "the sky is falling" doesn't suddenly change it to "Eat at Joes."  It's still "the sky is falling."

 

We're a goalie and a winger away from actually being a pretty decent team.   We're a goalie and a winger  and some change-ups in the bottom six from contending.   These are coming and we have cap space.

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

You've got to be fun at parties.

 

Yes it absolutely is.   The length of time you've been yelling "the sky is falling" doesn't suddenly change it to "Eat at Joes."  It's still "the sky is falling."

 

We're a goalie and a winger away from actually being a pretty decent team.   We're a goalie and a winger  and some change-ups in the bottom six from contending.   These are coming and we have cap space.

 

I forgot to mention a different coach.   I'm still not willing to give that up.

 

But if I say "different coach" for five years, it's still saying "different coach."

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1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

Time for another right wing via trade. See if we can get Benning to give us Boeser for Voracek and Morin +. I'm tired of Jake "I take 3 months off a year" Voracek.

 

I don't know that Voracek takes three months off.   He didn't this year.   His point production was fairly consistent even for playing on the 2nd line for much of it.   It's good his point production was good because (my problem with him) he's dumber than a rock.   His attempted stick-handling through a small village, his passes often to no one in particular, his penchant for being a possession killer, his mindless skates in the defensive end....Like I say, it's hard to argue with his points, but he is infuriating.  

 

I don't think you'd get Boeser for that package, though.   If you can, I take a really long look at it.  I'd pause with Morin because of our prospects, he's the one that would actually bring size and some porch-clearing ability.   But given his health and given the fact he may ultimately be neutered in the same way as Gudas, I'd do this.

 

I think it would at least take a 1st rounder in addition to that package, though.   They have a nice thing coming with Boeser and Horvat.  They'd be foolish to ruin that for Voracek.

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3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't know that Voracek takes three months off.   He didn't this year.   His point production was fairly consistent even for playing on the 2nd line for much of it.   It's good his point production was good because (my problem with him) he's dumber than a rock.   His attempted stick-handling through a small village, his passes often no one in particular, his penchant for being a possession killer, his mindless skates in the defensive end....Like I say, it's hard to argue with his points, but he is infuriating.  

 

I don't think you'd get Boeser for that package, though.   If you can, I take a really long look at it.  I'd pause with Morin because of our prospects, he's the one that would actually bring size and some porch-clearing ability.   But given his health and given the fact he may ultimately be neutered in the same way as Gudas, I'd do this.

 

I think it would at least take a 1st rounder in addition to that package, though.   They have a nice thing coming with Boeser and Horvat.  They'd be foolish to ruin that for Voracek.

Maybe they do this if they think Pettersson is the real deal shortly down the road. 

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