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RonJeremy

Hakstol said “I should have called timeout after third goal “

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22 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Simple coaching 101, you call time out , you pull the goalie and you talk to the team . Remind them that has they finished some of their chances and not taken so many penalties, they would be the ones winning. You want to change the momentum and regroup, but this moron stands there and does nothing. 

 

There's more to this in today's game as coaches need to be careful of when to use their timeout.  If a coach uses his challenge early, he then doesn't have it to available to take a look to overturn a goal based upon it was offsides or goalie interference later in the game.  If he uses it early he also doesn't have it available late in a game to rest top players for that goal that ties the score or maybe is able to taks a late lead in a tie game.  All of those things need to be considered.  If you are comparing this to Laviolette's great use of the timeout years ago there is a major difference in that Laviolette didn't have to consider saving it for a coaches challenge.

 

In hindsight yeah, maybe that would have been the best time to call a timeout, change goaltenders etc., but he also didn't know Elliot would be scored on again seconds later.  The Flyers have rallied before down 3-0 during the season and a goaltending change wasn't a necessity.   

 

Every team member knows what they need to do on the next shift after a goal, a timeout should not have to be wasted to remind players of their defensive responsibilities.  The next shift shouldn't need a timeout for reminders.   Hakstol also knows that our backup in net isn't that great.  Could Mzarek have played great in this game yeah, maybe but he also could have let in 3 more goals too.   I guess Hakstol just has more confidence in Elliot and that based his reasoning he chose to save his timeout for later in the game. 

 

The players failed in this game - NOT THE COACH.

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7 minutes ago, hf101 said:

The players failed in this game - NOT THE COACH.

 

Yet, good coaches find ways to calm their teams down during stretches of bad play.   He may have not lost the game but Hak certainly wasn't helping either...

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Hakstol should also admit he needs to show some sign of having a pulse behind the bench during a game and stop acting like a cardboard cutout from Spencer's Gifts. :confused[1]:

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58 minutes ago, hf101 said:

The players failed in this game - NOT THE COACH.

 

You're not wrong. In a vacuum, I would be very hesitant to blame the coach. I'm not the type who looks for a scapegoat, and coaches in particular tend to take more blame than they deserve in many cases.

 

But this isn't a vacuum. Hak has made questionable decisions since he's gotten to Philly. Not just timeouts, line match choices, ice time choices, a seeming lack of passion to defend his players and rag on refs for bad calls (this matters more than we think!).

 

Has it been all bad? No of course not. He does seem to have a good mind for systems and team play, as long as the team they're up against doesn't figure it out and adjust. It often feels like he has a plan A and no back up. When the plan starts to fall apart, he prefers to double down rather than adjust.

 

Will he learn over time? Maybe... I hope so. I do think he'll be around for a couple more seasons, so it's in all our best interest to hope he does learn and grow into the role.

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At this point, the most egregious bit of coaching from Hakstol is not having TK back on the top line. 

 

They were one of the best lines in the league over the last 40 games, yet Raffl is still on the top line and TK is spinning his wheels with no support on line 3. 

 

As I've said before, I can understand the move to put Raffl up top in the final 3-4 games of the year when he was trying to limit defensive miscues and the team was fighting for a playoff spot. 

 

But we've made the playoffs. We're in. In fact, Game 4 is coming up. It would seem to me to be a great time to roll out a line that you know has had immense success and see what they can do against Pittsburgh. 

 

When he saw Lindblom struggling, he moved him to the 4th line. No problem with that.

 

So if the top line is struggling and Raffl in particular is not contributing offensively, what's the hold up?

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I was just reading an article in Philadelphia Magazine about the Phillies new head coach and there was an interesting quote I thought applies here and maybe Hakstol could take note:

 

“The record … wasn’t at all a reflection on the team we had,” Kapler says via text. “What I learned was that players need to see your emotions. I went into that season thinking that arguing with umpires was futile. They never change their mind … what’s the point? I learned that the team needed to see that I was just as committed as they were. … I wasn’t just thinking about how to be better every moment, I was feeling it and experiencing it along with them.”
Read more at

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19 minutes ago, brelic said:

At this point, the most egregious bit of coaching from Hakstol is not having TK back on the top line.

 

 

Not my word's Hak's....having TK on the 3rd "balances things out"....

 

...yes mind boggling i know.

 

They need goals....TK can do that on the 1st line.

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Posted (edited)

Here's a glance at play-driving so far in the series...

 

I get it that TK up top would create an imbalance... but we are already 'imbalanced' because we're playing against a much deeper and more talented Pens team. Maybe, just maybe, G/Coots/TK can combine for a goal or two and can change the complexion of the game, you know?

 

Crazy, I know, right?

 

And look at the difference between MacDonald and Sanheim, even though they are a pair. Corsi is only even-strength, correct? If so, that is a huge gap.

 

flyers-corsi.JPG

Edited by brelic

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Hak needs a way to get both the top two lines going.

 

Jake and Simmer need to be the vets the Flyers need to rely on too.

 

So better goaltending can go a long ways too.

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hak needs a way to get both the top two lines going.

 

Jake and Simmer need to be the vets the Flyers need to rely on too.

 

So better goaltending can go a long ways too.

 

The Flyers have scored 5 goals in the series (+1 empty netter). 

 

Of the 5 non-emtpy-net goals, 3 are from rookies / newbies. Sanheim, Patrick, and Konecny.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, brelic said:

Here's a glance at play-driving so far in the series...

 

I get it that TK up top would create an imbalance... but we are already 'imbalanced' because we're playing against a much deeper and more talented Pens team. Maybe, just maybe, G/Coots/TK can combine for a goal or two and can change the complexion of the game, you know?

 

Crazy, I know, right?

 

And look at the difference between MacDonald and Sanheim, even though they are a pair. Corsi is only even-strength, correct? If so, that is a huge gap.

 

flyers-corsi.JPG

 

Some folks here seem to have an issue with Sanheim. I personally think he's been one of our best dmen. I'd love to see him paired with a better partner next season. Morin?

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Greetings Gang:

 

We have a static, dump-and-chase offense.  It is in part the absence of bottom line scorers. But I think it is a bigger problem.  I am a broken record but the "outshoot-but-underscore" issue says a lot. Our one series victory was the reverse. 

 

To win this year, we've needed:

 

1) A stand on head goaltending performance;

2) Scoring from other than the top line; and

3) Relatively few turnovers or PP chances.

 

If we can't check those boxes, we lose.   Hakstol talks a lot about "structure."  Right. We basically have to play a defensive shell with few errors to win.  This team can't shoot-em-up.  It isn't that great defensively, and G-d only knows how inconsistent the goaltending is.  So, we soldier on and hope that years four and five of the H-Squared Experiment see personnel changes so that we look more like Columbus, Nashville, Pitt, or Vegas (a blast to watch).

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1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings Gang:

 

We have a static, dump-and-chase offense.  It is in part the absence of bottom line scorers. But I think it is a bigger problem.  I am a broken record but the "outshoot-but-underscore" issue says a lot. Our one series victory was the reverse. 

 

To win this year, we've needed:

 

1) A stand on head goaltending performance;

2) Scoring from other than the top line; and

3) Relatively few turnovers or PP chances.

 

If we can't check those boxes, we lose.   Hakstol talks a lot about "structure."  Right. We basically have to play a defensive shell with few errors to win.  This team can't shoot-em-up.  It isn't that great defensively, and G-d only knows how inconsistent the goaltending is.  So, we soldier on and hope that years four and five of the H-Squared Experiment see personnel changes so that we look more like Columbus, Nashville, Pitt, or Vegas (a blast to watch).

 

You've found? I don't know. I don't think we've had a goalie stand on their head for a win even once this year. If anything, they've practically stood on their heads to lose at times. I also think the games we've won were on the backs of our top line. In fact, I'd say the opposite: If the top line isn't scoring, that's where we run into big trouble.

 

I agree completely on your third point though.

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On 4/16/2018 at 8:45 AM, RonJeremy said:

This tool still doesn’t get it. He has been in the league three years and he still doesn’t understand basic coaching. The team was out playing Pittsburgh and getting quality chances but they couldn’t finish .  We start to take dumb penalties, Pittsburgh goes up 3-0. Simple coaching 101, you call time out , you pull the goalie and you talk to the team . Remind them that has they finished some of their chances and not taken so many penalties, they would be the ones winning. You want to change the momentum and regroup, but this moron stands there and does nothing. 

I agree with your general point.  Hak doesn't have a good feel for the timeout.  As mentioned in the thread, the challenge could come in handy later in the game.

 

What was the time in the game when the pens went up 3-0?  If it's close to 14, 10, or 6 minutes, it's USUALLY, not a bad idea to wait for commercial break to pull the goalie and talk to the team.  In this case, I believe goal 4 was five seconds later, so that wouldn't have helped.

 

I think a bigger issue is their play after a goal, either for or against.  I bet if you could find a stat for opposing scoring chances against within the first minute after a goal, flyers would be the worst.  They had their heads down after the third goal, Giroux lost the faceoff, and the penguins were full steam ahead.  They weren't up on their skates at that point and Pittsburgh took advantage.

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Posted (edited)

Oh so close, Hak..... 

 

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Weal in for Lindblom; TK on second line. Voracek on top line; Raffl on third line.

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FWIW, in Couturier’s absence it was Nolan Patrick centering Giroux and Voracek, but still waiting on an update on Couturier.

Edited by brelic

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If Couturier comes back... 

 

Dave Isaac

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@davegisaac
 2h2 hours ago
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Projected lines: 
Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Konecny-Patrick-Simmonds
Weal-Filppula-Raffl
Laughton-Lehtera-Read

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7 minutes ago, brelic said:

If Couturier comes back... 

 

Dave Isaac

Verified account
 
@davegisaac
 2h2 hours ago
More
Projected lines: 
Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Konecny-Patrick-Simmonds
Weal-Filppula-Raffl
Laughton-Lehtera-Read

 

 

I am hoping it is a maintenance type of thing... Couts has been logging heavy minutes this series....

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4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

I am hoping it is a maintenance type of thing... Couts has been logging heavy minutes this series....

 

It's more than maintenance. He collided hard with Gudas in open ice, apparently. He was limping and had to be helped off the ice.

 

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1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

It's more than maintenance. He collided hard with Gudas in open ice, apparently. He was limping and had to be helped off the ice.

 

 

ugh.... that ain't good.    Hopefully he can go... if not this series is over.

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Doesnt sound good. If he can’t go, Giroux back to Center? Hak will probably dress Weise over Lindblom....

 

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6 hours ago, hf101 said:

Every team member knows what they need to do on the next shift after a goal, a timeout should not have to be wasted to remind players of their defensive responsibilities

 

The timeout wouldn't have been about reminders of defensive responsibilities.   It would have been about calming the troops down and just having them take a moment.

 

But your point about challenges, etc., is the trumping argument I think.   Valid point and probably why he didn't.

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Interesting blog post about the Flyers-Pens.

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In particular...

 

Quote

To help get Giroux going, Dave Hakstol must, and probably will, move Konecny up to the captain’s right side for Game Four Wednesday night. Of course that weakens the third line even further, but is a risk that the coach much take. If Giroux, the second-leading scorer in the NHL this season, keeps performing like this, the Flyers have no chance.

 

Well, I guess Hakstol isn't listening to virtually everyone. That's nothing new - let's just hope he makes the right call. 

 

 

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  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 7
      Post
      I still think Hak is completely over matched...   I am not confident he will ever "get it."       
    • 6
      Post
      This tool still doesn’t get it. He has been in the league three years and he still doesn’t understand basic coaching. The team was out playing Pittsburgh and getting quality chances but they couldn’t finish .  We start to take dumb penalties, Pittsburgh goes up 3-0. Simple coaching 101, you call time out , you pull the goalie and you talk to the team . Remind them that has they finished some of their chances and not taken so many penalties, they would be the ones winning. You want to change the momentum and regroup, but this moron stands there and does nothing. 
    • 3
      Post
      There's more to this in today's game as coaches need to be careful of when to use their timeout.  If a coach uses his challenge early, he then doesn't have it to available to take a look to overturn a goal based upon it was offsides or goalie interference later in the game.  If he uses it early he also doesn't have it available late in a game to rest top players for that goal that ties the score or maybe is able to taks a late lead in a tie game.  All of those things need to be considered.  If you are comparing this to Laviolette's great use of the timeout years ago there is a major difference in that Laviolette didn't have to consider saving it for a coaches challenge.   In hindsight yeah, maybe that would have been the best time to call a timeout, change goaltenders etc., but he also didn't know Elliot would be scored on again seconds later.  The Flyers have rallied before down 3-0 during the season and a goaltending change wasn't a necessity.      Every team member knows what they need to do on the next shift after a goal, a timeout should not have to be wasted to remind players of their defensive responsibilities.  The next shift shouldn't need a timeout for reminders.   Hakstol also knows that our backup in net isn't that great.  Could Mzarek have played great in this game yeah, maybe but he also could have let in 3 more goals too.   I guess Hakstol just has more confidence in Elliot and that based his reasoning he chose to save his timeout for later in the game.    The players failed in this game - NOT THE COACH.
    • 3
      Post
      Some folks here seem to have an issue with Sanheim. I personally think he's been one of our best dmen. I'd love to see him paired with a better partner next season. Morin?
    • 3
      Post
      That's only because the walls of his colon block the sound of our voices from reaching his ears.
    • 3
      Post
      Neither has most of our bottom 6, apparently.   Thanks for the description of it. It's along the lines of what I thought I was seeing.   The more I'm watching this, the more I actually think it was Coots that wasn't paying enough attention.

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