Bring Tavares to Philly

[OH1FlyersFan]

On 4/24/2018 at 5:25 PM, ruxpin said:

whatever is physically ailing him for that.

 

 

Did you see the new post on the list of Simmonds' injuries???  Apparently it was everything BUT the fight I thought may have triggered the decline in his play.  Nothing after February 16.  No wonder he didn't look like his usual self.  The injuries were, what's the right word -- extensive.  

[mojo1917]

3 minutes ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

The injuries were, what's the right word -- extensive.  

there's a lot of words you could use.

 

the guy still managed 24 goals with some kind of torn muscle in his pelvic region...

 

[OH1FlyersFan]

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

the guy still managed 24 goals with some kind of torn muscle in his pelvic region...

 

Which just blows my mind.  I tear my pelvic ligament and I'm in bed for the freakin' year.  Ha.  He's out fighting people, scoring goals, making hits, heck, just standing up on skates is impressive.

[AJgoal]

I suspect that the Flyers won't want to pay anyone more than their captain, which probably would take them out of the running even if Hextall would consider this, which he wouldn't. That said, I don't think you're looking at really having any issues signing the guys you want to keep long term. I'm going to make the assumption that it would take a 7x$10m deal to bring Tavares in.

 

Other assumptions: Hagg takes a moderate pay bump this season, Morin a small one (due to the injury-plagued year), both on short deals. Leier also gets a small bump as a useful 13/14 but not in the future kind of guy. Next offseason, Konecny ($5m) and Provorov ($6m) get significant deals. The Flyers still have a pretty good amount of flexibility due to the number of kids that they can bring in to fill slots on the 2/3/4 wings. The only area that's really questionable is goalie, but you have flexibility to add a stopgap tender and let Hart backup after next season.

 

 

[King Knut]

On 4/26/2018 at 9:46 AM, mojo1917 said:

I could be, that's fair. A top line of Giroux, Tavares, and Koneckny would be hella fun to watch play.

To me, John Tavares represents 0 cap flexibility down the road. So if he is targeted, I think one of Voracek or Simmonds goes. Most likely Voracek and he's 85pts to replace.

The Flyers would still have 16-18m per year tied up in two players, still have the same weakness on the roster, with the addition of having to replace 60 to 90pts.  

JT isn't coming here for 4 years, you know? 

HIs money would mean less for guys the Flyers developed who could be cornerstones.

Having said all that, it could be time to look outside of the Flyers system and use the assets acquired to improve the club.

i"m not opposed to that in the least. 

 

 

The cap situation isn't really that precarious.  Though I agree if you sign him, you have to at the very least let Simmonds go next summer, though I believe Hextall is going to take advantage of Wayne's injury raddled down year to extend him on another sweetheart deal this summer. 

 

The only real danger in tying that money up with Tavares is if Patrick or Konecny start putting up 85 points themselves... but if that's the case on a team with Giroux, Voracek, Tavares and Couturier then I imagine we'll all still be too drunk from the parades to care.  

 

I don't think they're going for Tavares.  I think they'd sooner go for Bozak and Carlson which I would also support.  

 

[Digityman]

IF the Flyers window starts in 2 years, then the Flyers will need:

1.  Another dynamic top 6 player that can drive plays, create their own chances and make the opponent focus on multiple players.  All the Pens had to do was shut down the Flyers first line and it was lights out.   The Flyers will need someone at Giroux's level or above.  Tavares instantly makes the Flyers top 6 one of the best in the league.
   (Think Kane/Toews/Hossa,  Crosby/Malkin/Kessel,  Kopitar/Carter/Williams)
    
2. A legit goaltender.  We are all banking on Hart but he is at the least 1.5-2 years from competing for the job.   We'll know this time next year whether he really is as special as his JR numbers show.   And let's say he's ready by the start of the 19-20 season, that's exactly when the window opens up and is great timing.   So Ron needs to pick up a legit goaltender.   Looking at what's available through FA (Bernier, Lehtonen...), best bet is through a trade.   Simmonds or Jake gets you what would be considered a quality goalie.   I'm not knowledgeable enough to know who Ron could try to pry away. 
    
3. A veteran stay at home defensive.   Hopefully Morin becomes that guy but right now, the need one to solidify the group for the next few years as they grow.   There are a few FAs that might fit the bill.  

If they can land Tavares and trade one of Simmonds or Jake for a goalie plus, you still end up with a top 6 of Giroux, Tavares, Couturier, Patrick, Konecny, Simonds/Jake.   That's hell of top 6.   Bottom 6 is comprised from the best of Raffl, Leier, Lindblom, Frost(?), Weise, Lehtera, Laughton, Weal, Vecchione, Aube-Kubel.   Even the bottom 6 looks promising.   

 

If I was the GM and coach this would be my ideal lineup next year: 

Giroux - Couturier - Tavares      (Coots here allows Giroux and Tavaras focus more on O then D)

Simmonds - Patrick - Konecny     (Up and coming line with Simmonds to provide space.  Or Jake if Simmonds gets traded)

Lindblom - Laughton - Leier       (Just because their are all L's)

Raffl - Vecchione - Weal            (4th line that can score)

Weiss, Filppula...

 

Provorov - FA        (I think Rux mentioned Carlson.  Maybe Hamilton?  Or maybe Jake gets you a goalie and a dman)

Ghost - Morin    (I think Ghost got exposed by the Pens being on the first pair)

Sanheim - AMac

Hagg & Myers waiting in the wings

 

Elliot/Bernier?   (would like to do better but I'm at a loss about who Ron could pry away with Simmonds or Jake)

 

If that's the 2018-2019 starting lineup, here's my prediction:

2018-2019 - 3rd round playoffs.  Ton of experience.  Frost & Myers comes up

2019-2020 - Cup finals.  Hart getting his playoff feet wet.    Ratcliffe comes up.  AMAC gone!

2020-2021 - Stanley cup champions.  The team comes together at the right time.

2021-2022 - Digityman wins lottery.

 

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, Digityman said:

 

If I was the GM and coach this would be my ideal lineup next year: 

Giroux - Couturier - Tavares      (Coots here allows Giroux and Tavaras focus more on O then D)

Simmonds - Patrick - Konecny     (Up and coming line with Simmonds to provide space.  Or Jake if Simmonds gets traded)

Lindblom - Laughton - Leier       (Just because their are all L's)

Raffl - Vecchione - Weal            (4th line that can score)

Weiss

 

Provorov - FA

Ghost - Morin  

Sanheim - AMac

Hagg & Myers

 

Elliot/Bernier? 

 

On D I think I agree, but while we can afford Tavares, we can’t afford Tavares and Carlson.... probably. 

 

I dont like moving any of the RWs to LW.  It just tends not to work so well for these particular guys. If it’s me, I go:

 

Giroux Tavares Konecny

Lindblom Patrick Voracek

Weal Coots Simmer

Raffl Vecchione Laughton (with Vex and laughts splitting center duties like G and Coots. 

 

Maybe flip Simmer And Jake if Simmer’s healthy. 

 

I dont knownthat inmoce Jake or Simmer I’d Wayne is healthy and we acquire Tavares.  I think you give that ridiculous lineup a year to go crazy and see what they can do. 

 

If no Johnny T, it would like more like:

 

Giroux Coots Konecny

Lindblom Patrick Voracek

Unnamed F/A  Bozak  Simmer

Raffl Vecchione Laughton 

 

i dont  know who to go for for Weal’s spot, but I know who I like.  It’s just that neither is available.  BUT if you can trade pieces or picks to the Sens for either Mike Hoffman or Mark Stone, you do it in a heartbeat. 

 

I like what what you’ve got on D. 

They will have to trade Gudas or AMac or Hagg to move the roster spot they’d need to sign someone new. Right now that’s obviously Gudas.  But if it can’t be done or they can’t bring someone in, I’d make Gudas the 7th man who Hak doesn’t play unless he desperately has to. 

 

If Morin or Hagg get hurt you can play Gudas, otherwise bring up Myers instead.  

 

The goalies will be Elliott and Stolarz unless Stolie’s career is just effed due to injuries.   I don’t see them signing or trading for one    . The Behave to do something though and the idea I’ve been pushing is to carry Neuvy on the 23 man roster so he can practice with the team.  Practice is apparently what really wore down our goalies as they’re used a bit intensely in “Haktices”.  Drill into Haks brain to rest them in games and give them someone to throw a billion picks at in practice who isn’t the #1. This is not nearly good enough, but short of a 3-way deal for Holtby, they’re probably not pulling off a trade for a goalies.  

 

Unless Salil wants Gudas for Bernier or something.

[ruxpin]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I dont like moving any of the RWs to LW.  It just tends not to work so well for these particular guys. If it’s me, I go

Yeah, I don't want Konecny on the left. That already set him back a year. 

[AJgoal]

6 hours ago, King Knut said:

i dont  know who to go for for Weal’s spot, but I know who I like.  It’s just that neither is available.  BUT if you can trade pieces or picks to the Sens for either Mike Hoffman or Mark Stone, you do it in a heartbeat. 

 

You can always offer sheet Stone. You could sign him for $1 and the Sens still probably wouldn't match.

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

You can always offer sheet Stone. You could sign him for $1 and the Sens still probably wouldn't match.

 

You know, I'd offer sheet him.  I don't think that's a bad idea.   It just seems that is so far out of Hextall's MO, though.   I hope he goes out of his MO.  LOL

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I don't want Tavares. Don't get me wrong, I like Tavares and he's a great player, but he's not what the Flyers need. The Flyers need a legitimate 3rd line center, a right shooting right side defenseman and a goaltender who can split the duties with Elliott while Hart is being groomed. That should be the focus right now.

[OccamsRazor]

11 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

You can always offer sheet Stone. You could sign him for $1 and the Sens still probably wouldn't match.

 

 

Really why wouldn't the Sens match??

 

Dude is only 25 and has great size at 6-4 220 and coming off a 62 point season (20 g 42 a).

 

I mean i'm with you but i can't see why they wouldn't match?? They need forwards. Am i missing something.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

You know, I'd offer sheet him.  I don't think that's a bad idea.   It just seems that is so far out of Hextall's MO, though.   I hope he goes out of his MO.  LOL

 

So why wouldn't they match is what i ask. I like Stone even though they are already stacked at RW they can use his size for sure.

[AJgoal]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Really why wouldn't the Sens match??

 

Dude is only 25 and has great size at 6-4 220 and coming off a 62 point season (20 g 42 a).

 

I mean i'm with you but i can't see why they wouldn't match?? They need forwards. Am i missing something.

It was a tongue in cheek shot at Melnyk 's cheapness.

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

It was a tongue in cheek shot at Melnyk 's cheapness.

 

Ok gotcha....damn i was hoping that was a plan...Flyers could use a winger his size...oh well...and with his scoring touch.

 

I think he has like 4 straight 20 goal seasons those don't grow on trees...

[AJgoal]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok gotcha....damn i was hoping that was a plan...Flyers could use a winger his size...oh well...and with his scoring touch.

 

I think he has like 4 straight 20 goal seasons those don't grow on trees...

 

Oh, I absolutely believe you could successfully offer sheet Stone. Just not quite for $1.

[ruxpin]

9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So why wouldn't they match is what i ask. I like Stone even though they are already stacked at RW they can use his size for sure.

Yeah, it makes no sense with the RWs we currently have. It only works if we're moving someone. In this scenario, Simmonds makes the most sense to move. 

 

"Why wouldn't they match?" is a great question. I only have a two part part possibility for you. 

1) they're cheap as hell

2) if they're really in rebuild, maybe they want the compensatory picks

 

It won't happen realistically, but it's fun to think about. 

[Pucked in the head]

Offer him 1$ more than Ottawa does if they match their original offer sheet/contract

[King Knut]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:29 PM, ruxpin said:

Yeah, it makes no sense with the RWs we currently have. It only works if we're moving someone. In this scenario, Simmonds makes the most sense to move. 

 

"Why wouldn't they match?" is a great question. I only have a two part part possibility for you. 

1) they're cheap as hell

2) if they're really in rebuild, maybe they want the compensatory picks

 

It won't happen realistically, but it's fun to think about. 

Most likely, hextall would have to trade some picks or one of the young d men their way.

[ruxpin]

34 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Most likely, hextall would have to trade some picks or one of the young d men their way.

 

Well, certainly the compensatory picks.   I'm just talking offer-sheet and trying to get as an RFA.   Simmonds would have to go in separate deal.  There's no way they'd be taking Simmonds for Stone unless you're throwing in exactly what you said.  Even then, I think that's foolish on Ottawa's end.

 

But if we're talking trade, what do you think?   Simmonds, 1st, and....?   Hagg?   Is that enough?  I don't know that.

 

What I also don't remember and don't feel like looking it up:   Do you know what the compensatory picks would be to grab him away from Ottawa as an RFA?    I only vaguely remember the rules when we were talking about Weber.  Is it tied to amount of $$?

[King Knut]

10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Well, certainly the compensatory picks.   I'm just talking offer-sheet and trying to get as an RFA.   Simmonds would have to go in separate deal.  There's no way they'd be taking Simmonds for Stone unless you're throwing in exactly what you said.  Even then, I think that's foolish on Ottawa's end.

 

But if we're talking trade, what do you think?   Simmonds, 1st, and....?   Hagg?   Is that enough?  I don't know that.

 

What I also don't remember and don't feel like looking it up:   Do you know what the compensatory picks would be to grab him away from Ottawa as an RFA?    I only vaguely remember the rules when we were talking about Weber.  Is it tied to amount of $$?

 

Trade would be better.

The offer sheet on Shea Weber and the rumors that he was going to try to offer sheet Stamkos apparently so ticked off the rest of the GM's around the league that they wouldn't deal with him in remotely reasonable terms.  That helped add to the circumstances that gave McDonald such a damned ridiculous contract and forced Homer to sign VLC.  This is literally why hextall was brought in, so I don't see him making the same mistake.  It's a completely legitimate thing for a GM to do as far as the rules go, but GMs DO NOT LIKE IT.  

Clarke did it once, tried it another time and got screwed on both, Homer tried it and got screwed... I'd just as soon Hextall not bother. 

 

If Hextall were to offer sheet him, I'd want it to OPENLY be with Ottawa's blessing because they want our picks.  

 

[brelic]

16 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Well, certainly the compensatory picks.   I'm just talking offer-sheet and trying to get as an RFA.   Simmonds would have to go in separate deal.  There's no way they'd be taking Simmonds for Stone unless you're throwing in exactly what you said.  Even then, I think that's foolish on Ottawa's end.

 

But if we're talking trade, what do you think?   Simmonds, 1st, and....?   Hagg?   Is that enough?  I don't know that.

 

What I also don't remember and don't feel like looking it up:   Do you know what the compensatory picks would be to grab him away from Ottawa as an RFA?    I only vaguely remember the rules when we were talking about Weber.  Is it tied to amount of $$?

 

Basically, we can't offer-sheet Stone (or anyone decent) this year because we don't have our own 3rd rounder. The picks have to be the team's own picks, and I think Stone would fall in the $3.9M-$7.8M range.

 

2017 offer sheet compensation …

 

Average annual value    Draft Pick Compensation

$1,295,571 or below    None
Over $1,295,571 to $1,962,986    Third-round pick
Over $1,962,986 to $3,925,975    Second-round pick
Over $3,925,975 to $5,888,960    First-round and third-round pick
Over $5,888,960 to $7,851,948    First-round, second-round and third-round pick
Over $7,851,948 to $9,814,935    Two first-round picks, second-round pick, third-round pick
Over $9,814,935    Four first-round picks

[OccamsRazor]

45 minutes ago, brelic said:

Basically, we can't offer-sheet Stone (or anyone decent) this year because we don't have our own 3rd rounder.

 

I thought if they offer sheet him they would owe 2019 picks which they do have a 3rd unless they resign Mrazek....which ain't happening.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I thought if they offer sheet him they would owe 2019 picks which they do have a 3rd unless they resign Mrazek....which ain't happening.

 

Yeah, draft day is June 22 and free agency doesn't begin until July 1, so it has to be next year.

 

i don't know, though.   He was making $4.5M this past year ($3.5M cap hit).  Signing him off RFA would probably realistically put him in the $5.8M-$7.8M range, right?   I suppose $5.5M-$5.8M  might do it, but he'll be 26 so it's time to get the money he's going to get.   Plus, Ottawa will probably be willing/able to go that range if they're serious about icing an NHL team.   

 

So, assuming it's $5.8M-$7.8M range (thanks @brelic!), it's a 1st, 2nd, 3rd for Stone.    So, if we really want Stone, doesn't trading make more sense?  I have a hard time believing Hextall would give up that much pickage.   But he MIGHT, give up a player + pick + prospect or player + (pick OR prospect).   

 

All of this is moot, of course, because we're content with icing Weis and Lehtera and Weal.

[brelic]

11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I thought if they offer sheet him they would owe 2019 picks which they do have a 3rd unless they resign Mrazek....which ain't happening.

 

Yeah, good point. So we would have the picks in that case.