3C

[King Knut]

Unless Ron Hextall truly hates me, Val Filppula won't be our 3C next year and Hextall has a little bit of cap room to play with to replace him.

 

In Free Agency there are some intriguing possibilities.

 

1. JOHN TAVARES, C, 27 (obviously).

He's a 1C, but the possibilities are endless if you sign him (obviously)

Down side (obviously) is that if you lock up 10million in him for the next 8 years, you're going to risk not being able to keep some of your youth as it really starts to come along and into it's own.  

Then again... the thought of this guy playing along side Giroux, or Voracek, or Konecny, or a healthy Simmonds...  Also, putting him on PK2 could do wonders.  

 

2. MIKAEL BACKLUND, C

Interesting possibility.  He plays a very Hakstol game already.  Shouldn't cost as much as Tavares.  Had an absolutely brutal year in Calgary.  But this is the kind of guy I think they'll go for.  mid range scorer, defensively responsible, shouldn't need a huge / long contact.

 

3. JOE THORNTON, C

 

Is 38 years old.  He was literally born in the 70's... which don't think I'm calling that old because I ain't young, but the 70's none the less.  But still good at .77 points per game this year in half a season.  Will he retire or is he maybe just the kind of guy to bring in on a 2-3 year end of career deal?  Of course we know how well the end of career thing worked out with Pronger who was of a similar age at the time.

 

4. PAUL STASTNY, C

Also an intriguing possibility to me.  The man Brayden Schenn apparently made obsolete in St. Louis. He's the same as as Filppula though... did okay this year, doesn't really show signs of slowing yet the way Val had when we brought him in.  Down side:  has played 82 games exactly once... though with the centers in the system maybe giving them fill in time isn't terrible.  

 

These guys are also FA's and are more likely the way Hextall will go:

 

5. LARS ELLER, C

6. TYLER BOZAK, C
 

7. TOMAS PLEKANEC, C

 

Now some wild cards, becasue I happen to think that 3LW and 3RW are also key needs that i'm not sure have prospects waiting in the wings for.  Color me crazy, but 

 

Forget about Bailey, Neal and Kane for a minute because they're going to cost too much for what we need.

 

The guys that intrigue me the most right now are Grabner (Has there ever been a team more in need of a PK/Shortie specialist?), and Vanek because I think this team needs skaters. They're both going to want to shoot for a bigger role someplace, but playing along side one of the above and Wayne Simmonds won't be too hard a pill to swallow I'm sure.  

 

I in no way believe that Hextall will try to bring in a goalie, but if he did, I would look at Aaron Dell.  He's one of those guys who bounced around the AHL forever, but has actually looked pretty good for San Jose as a backup playing 20-30 games over two years with excellent numbers. I also like Anders Nilsson (who you'd have to trade for) and who has also been firmly planted in the 20-30 game range as a perennial backup... but let's face it... if we can ask one of those two for the 35 games we expected from Neuvy, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised and no one will be devastated in a year or two when their services are no longer (hopefully) needed.  

 

 

 

[hf101]

Quote

2. MIKAEL BACKLUND, C

Interesting possibility.  He plays a very Hakstol game already.  Shouldn't cost as much as Tavares.  Had an absolutely brutal year in Calgary.  But this is the kind of guy I think they'll go for.  mid range scorer, defensively responsible, shouldn't need a huge / long contact.

 

Backlund signed a 6 year $32.1M deal with the Flames. 

[elmatus]

55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

10million in him for the next 8 years

 

It would be seven years max. It's only eight if resigning for a current team. Giroux just popped 102 pts at 30 years old. No reason Tavares couldn't do the same. I honestly don't think it's so crazy at all. Unlikely I would say, but not crazy.

 

I would add some younger names to your list though. I'd be interested in the twin Sams, especially Bennett but also Reinhart.

 

I feel like Bennett may be just the kind of player who needs a change of scenery to realize his potential. He's not getting any traction as a 3C in Calgary. Send them Simmonds and call it a day. If he blossoms in his time here, all the better. He is a top three pick who showed considerable potential prior to hitting the NHL.

 

Reinhart I don't like as much, especially if we're removing Simmonds to get him. First off I don't think Buffalo would want Simmonds (Calgary might though). Bennett is a power forward, which is what we'd be losing to get him and is something I think we do need. Reinhart is more a playmaker, and we have enough of those already. He'd also be more expensive likely. I'm not sure Simmonds alone gets it done. But he is worth a mention I think as a player who also seems to have stunted in his growth and who could break out in better conditions.

 

Anyway, I'd add them both to the list for kicks. Another possible option could be RNH. I'm not a huge fan, for the same reasons as Reinhart really, but Chiarelli is the worst GM in the league. He may trade RNH for Manning straight up. Edmonton needs more heavy after all.

[pilldoc]

53 minutes ago, King Knut said:

3. JOE THORNTON, C

 

Is 38 years old.  He was literally born in the 70's... which don't think I'm calling that old because I ain't young, but the 70's none the less.  But still good at .77 points per game this year in half a season.  Will he retire or is he maybe just the kind of guy to bring in on a 2-3 year end of career deal?  Of course we know how well the end of career thing worked out with Pronger who was of a similar age at the time.

 

I want NO part of Thornton.  Period. End of story. 

[ruxpin]

57 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Unless Ron Hextall truly hates me, Val Filppula won't be our 3C next year and Hextall has a little bit of cap room to play with to replace him.

 

In Free Agency there are some intriguing possibilities.

 

1. JOHN TAVARES, C, 27 (obviously).

He's a 1C, but the possibilities are endless if you sign him (obviously)

Down side (obviously) is that if you lock up 10million in him for the next 8 years, you're going to risk not being able to keep some of your youth as it really starts to come along and into it's own.  

Then again... the thought of this guy playing along side Giroux, or Voracek, or Konecny, or a healthy Simmonds...  Also, putting him on PK2 could do wonders.  

 

2. MIKAEL BACKLUND, C

Interesting possibility.  He plays a very Hakstol game already.  Shouldn't cost as much as Tavares.  Had an absolutely brutal year in Calgary.  But this is the kind of guy I think they'll go for.  mid range scorer, defensively responsible, shouldn't need a huge / long contact.

 

3. JOE THORNTON, C

 

Is 38 years old.  He was literally born in the 70's... which don't think I'm calling that old because I ain't young, but the 70's none the less.  But still good at .77 points per game this year in half a season.  Will he retire or is he maybe just the kind of guy to bring in on a 2-3 year end of career deal?  Of course we know how well the end of career thing worked out with Pronger who was of a similar age at the time.

 

4. PAUL STASTNY, C

Also an intriguing possibility to me.  The man Brayden Schenn apparently made obsolete in St. Louis. He's the same as as Filppula though... did okay this year, doesn't really show signs of slowing yet the way Val had when we brought him in.  Down side:  has played 82 games exactly once... though with the centers in the system maybe giving them fill in time isn't terrible.  

 

These guys are also FA's and are more likely the way Hextall will go:

 

5. LARS ELLER, C

6. TYLER BOZAK, C
 

7. TOMAS PLEKANEC, C

 

Now some wild cards, becasue I happen to think that 3LW and 3RW are also key needs that i'm not sure have prospects waiting in the wings for.  Color me crazy, but 

 

Forget about Bailey, Neal and Kane for a minute because they're going to cost too much for what we need.

 

The guys that intrigue me the most right now are Grabner (Has there ever been a team more in need of a PK/Shortie specialist?), and Vanek because I think this team needs skaters. They're both going to want to shoot for a bigger role someplace, but playing along side one of the above and Wayne Simmonds won't be too hard a pill to swallow I'm sure.  

 

I in no way believe that Hextall will try to bring in a goalie, but if he did, I would look at Aaron Dell.  He's one of those guys who bounced around the AHL forever, but has actually looked pretty good for San Jose as a backup playing 20-30 games over two years with excellent numbers. I also like Anders Nilsson (who you'd have to trade for) and who has also been firmly planted in the 20-30 game range as a perennial backup... but let's face it... if we can ask one of those two for the 35 games we expected from Neuvy, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised and no one will be devastated in a year or two when their services are no longer (hopefully) needed.  

 

 

 

On that list, Backlund is the only one I like.  I really dislike Statsny. I think he has loser stench. No interest in him. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

MIKAEL BACKLUND, C

 

 

He is off the table he signed he signed a 6 year 32 mill deal this past year.

[King Knut]

14 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

It would be seven years max. It's only eight if resigning for a current team. Giroux just popped 102 pts at 30 years old. No reason Tavares couldn't do the same. I honestly don't think it's so crazy at all. Unlikely I would say, but not crazy.

 

I would add some younger names to your list though. I'd be interested in the twin Sams, especially Bennett but also Reinhart.

 

I feel like Bennett may be just the kind of player who needs a change of scenery to realize his potential. He's not getting any traction as a 3C in Calgary. Send them Simmonds and call it a day. If he blossoms in his time here, all the better. He is a top three pick who showed considerable potential prior to hitting the NHL.

 

Reinhart I don't like as much, especially if we're removing Simmonds to get him. First off I don't think Buffalo would want Simmonds (Calgary might though). Bennett is a power forward, which is what we'd be losing to get him and is something I think we do need. Reinhart is more a playmaker, and we have enough of those already. He'd also be more expensive likely. I'm not sure Simmonds alone gets it done. But he is worth a mention I think as a player who also seems to have stunted in his growth and who could break out in better conditions.

 

Anyway, I'd add them both to the list for kicks. Another possible option could be RNH. I'm not a huge fan, for the same reasons as Reinhart really, but Chiarelli is the worst GM in the league. He may trade RNH for Manning straight up. Edmonton needs more heavy after all.

 

Oh I think I'd probably go for him, it's unusual to get a player like him in UFA in his prime like this, and if they can stay healthy, he and Giroux would both threaten 100 pts for a few years to come... but I'm a little crazier than Hextall seems to be.

 

Both Bennet and Reinhart are either RFA or under contract.  The flames won't  be interested in moving Bennet if someone else signs Backlund from them, but if they keep Baklund, they may make a move for a win now winger to play with him... like Jake or Simmer.  

 

I don't expect to see Buffalo moving Reinhart for anyone we'd want to move in return.  Maybe Hagg?

 

RNH is 6 million for another 3 years.  Decent timeline for Frost coming of age.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

I really really can't see the Isle letting him (JT) walk...meaning they will just give him blank check to stay...

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He is off the table he signed he signed a 6 year 32 mill deal this past year.

 Curse me and my out of date UFA lists!!!!  Damn you internet!

[King Knut]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

I really really can't see the Isle letting him (JT) walk...meaning they will just give him blank check to stay...

 

It's not up to them though is it?  

They're likely to lose his top winger (Bailey) in the process, They're not very good and don't look to be getting beter, and oh yeah, THEY HAVE NO HOME.

 

Frankly I'm far more concerned about the Rangers giving him that blank check and not least because I'm tired of playing him 4+ times a year.  Hell, if the Flyers sign him, that could mean 16 points automatically just for making sure the Isles and Rangers get worse for the deal.  That would have easily given them the metro this year.

[King Knut]

23 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I want NO part of Thornton.  Period. End of story. 

 

Just curious... why?

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 Curse me and my out of date UFA lists!!!!  Damn you internet!

 

 

I would be ok with this next year down the middle....risky sure but it could maybe work...

 

Coots

Patrick

Vorobyev

Vecchione

 

Misha is 6-2 198 plenty of size for the NHL and remember he has already played two years in the KHL.

 

He isn't a goal score he is more of a young Alexei Zhamnov type.

 

And Vex at his age should be able to handle 4th line duties or if not just a career AHLer then.

[OccamsRazor]

However Bozak on a one year deal wouldn't be bad....dude is great at the faceoffs...

[elmatus]

33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

However Bozak on a one year deal wouldn't be bad....dude is great at the faceoffs...

 

I'd consider Bozak as well. Is he UFA?

 

40 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Coots

Patrick

Vorobyev

Vecchione

 

I'm okay with this if it happens, but I wouldn't expect this setup to be any better than what we had this year. It would make us younger, but I don't know that it makes us immediately better.

 

I do think it would be worth a shot though. The simple fact is, we'll never know what we've got in Vorobyev and Vex as long as they remain in lower leagues. The only real measuring stick that matters is ice time in the NHL. Everything else is guesswork and approximation for most players, including those two (or anyone else we might bring up for that matter).

 

So yeah, if Tavares doesn't happen (it likely won't), and we don't manage to snag a more proven 3C, bring those kiddos up and let's see what we've got. If we can get a Backlund, Bennett, RNH, or something similar, then I would go that route first for sure. Bozak could be alright too as another stop gap.

[pilldoc]

55 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Just curious... why?

 

First of all he IS 38 and will be 39 next year.  His base salary this year is 8 million.  Do you really expect him to take a pay cut?  He certainly will not sign a 1 year deal.  He will probably be looking for at least 2 years.  Do you really want to be paying a 39/40 year old 8 million /year to be on your 3rd line?  Face it unless something out of the ordinary happens, Coots and Patrick have the 1C / 2C.   Is paying 8 million /yr  for an aging vet at the 3C position worth it.  We all know how we felt about a previous candidate for that job.  (See Lecavalier, Vinny).   Add to boot his contract would be an NHL Age 35+ Contract which means you are on the hook for the entire cap hit regardless where he plays.  

 

As for his stats.  Agree when Thornton was in his prime he was a producer. 

 

 

However,  the last couple of years he really has not been that go to guy.  Throw away this year because of his injury.  Speaking of his injury, we all witness how G and Ghost were affected trying to come back from surgery and they are much younger than Thornton.  At near 40 do you really want to see if he gets back into playing shape after missing most of this year with a MCL tear?

His last decent season was 15-16 with 63 Assists.  However, that number alone can be very misleading.  How many of those assists were Primary Assists vs. Secondary Assists?  Primary Assists means you are DRIVING the PLAY.  Secondary assists means you are the beneficiary of others on the ice.

Let me ask you this question ...... what about Thornton makes you want to sign him?  Does he get this team over the hump and deeper into the playoffs. IMHO, no he doesn't.   The Flyers have a history of making major mistakes with aging vets.  Bringing in Thornton would be extremely out of character for Hexy and the direction he is trying to point this team.  Besides, he would be taking up a roster space for one of our younger prospects. such as Rubstov. 

IMO, Thornton is not worth the time / effort / or money for the Flyers.  10 years ago I would be singing a different tune. 

 

 

 

 

[RJ8812]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

 

First of all he IS 38 and will be 39 next year.  His base salary this year is 8 million.  Do you really expect him to take a pay cut?  He certainly will not sign a 1 year deal.  He will probably be looking for at least 2 years.  Do you really want to be paying a 39/40 year old 8 million /year to be on your 3rd line?  Face it unless something out of the ordinary happens, Coots and Patrick have the 1C / 2C.   Is paying 8 million /yr  for an aging vet at the 3C position worth it.  We all know how we felt about a previous candidate for that job.  (See Lecavalier, Vinny).   Add to boot his contract would be an NHL Age 35+ Contract which means you are on the hook for the entire cap hit regardless where he plays.  

 

As for his stats.  Agree when Thornton was in his prime he was a producer. 

 

 

However,  the last couple of years he really has not been that go to guy.  Throw away this year because of his injury.  Speaking of his injury, we all witness how G and Ghost were affected trying to come back from surgery and they are much younger than Thornton.  At near 40 do you really want to see if he gets back into playing shape after missing most of this year with a MCL tear?

His last decent season was 15-16 with 63 Assists.  However, that number alone can be very misleading.  How many of those assists were Primary Assists vs. Secondary Assists?  Primary Assists means you are DRIVING the PLAY.  Secondary assists means you are the beneficiary of others on the ice.

Let me ask you this question ...... what about Thornton makes you want to sign him?  Does he get this team over the hump and deeper into the playoffs. IMHO, no he doesn't.   The Flyers have a history of making major mistakes with aging vets.  Bringing in Thornton would be extremely out of character for Hexy and the direction he is trying to point this team.  Besides, he would be taking up a roster space for one of our younger prospects. such as Rubstov. 

IMO, Thornton is not worth the time / effort / or money for the Flyers.  10 years ago I would be singing a different tune. 

 

 

 

 

Rubstov has been bad since he was drafted. He will likely need to spend a couple years in the A working on his game if he wants any chance at a career in the NHL. Thornton wouldn't be taking a roster spot from him 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

Is he UFA?

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I don't know that it makes us immediately bette

 

No it wouldn't but it would give them the year to grow into the roles. And i'm not saying hand them the spot either but go into camp/preseason with intentions of give them the chance to earn it.

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I would be ok with this next year down the middle....risky sure but it could maybe work...

 

Coots

Patrick

Vorobyev

Vecchione

 

Misha is 6-2 198 plenty of size for the NHL and remember he has already played two years in the KHL.

 

He isn't a goal score he is more of a young Alexei Zhamnov type.

 

And Vex at his age should be able to handle 4th line duties or if not just a career AHLer then.

 

I'm not as familiar with Vorobyov, but I'm eager to see him and I think Vecchione is going to surprise a lot of people with how good he can be at that role.  He's a monster on face offs and he drives play like an SOB.  

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

 

First of all he IS 38 and will be 39 next year.  His base salary this year is 8 million.  Do you really expect him to take a pay cut?  He certainly will not sign a 1 year deal.  He will probably be looking for at least 2 years.  Do you really want to be paying a 39/40 year old 8 million /year to be on your 3rd line?  Face it unless something out of the ordinary happens, Coots and Patrick have the 1C / 2C.   Is paying 8 million /yr  for an aging vet at the 3C position worth it.  We all know how we felt about a previous candidate for that job.  (See Lecavalier, Vinny).   Add to boot his contract would be an NHL Age 35+ Contract which means you are on the hook for the entire cap hit regardless where he plays.  

 

I'm not really supporting Thorton, I just wanted to know why you were so adamant against him. 

I dont' think most of what you're afraid of applies, but I understand why you'd  be concerned.  

 

TO me this is signing Jim Thome to keep Ryan Howard's seat warm for two years.  

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

However Bozak on a one year deal wouldn't be bad....dude is great at the faceoffs...

 

He'd be a good choice, but I'm guessing Toronto will be in pretty deep on him as they'll likely be letting Plekanec walk which leaves them in a lurch at C and with $3mil to spread around.

Will they bother resigning JVR?  If he's up for a raise, I doubt it.  He produces goals, but they're not in love with him apparently (sounds familiar, but I'd still undo that trade if I could it was MORONIC).

 

 

[pilldoc]

21 minutes ago, King Knut said:

TO me this is signing Jim Thome to keep Ryan Howard's seat warm for two years.  

 

I see your point you are trying to make, but to counter, MLB does not have a Salary Cap. Yes, I know they have a Luxury Tax if you want to pay it.  That is a huge difference when trying to structure your team.

[OccamsRazor]

22 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Will they bother resigning JVR? 

 

 

I think he signs with the Rangers.

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

I see your point you are trying to make, but to counter, MLB does not have a Salary Cap. Yes, I know they have a Luxury Tax if you want to pay it.  That is a huge difference when trying to structure your team.

 

Screw it.  Just give Tavares whatever he wants and go win 4 cups. 

 

This is once when I think Hextall should go full Homer. 

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I think he signs with the Rangers.

 

Good for them. Maybe he’ll try if he played for his home team. I’m mad we traded him for crap. I don't really want him back. 

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

I see your point you are trying to make, but to counter, MLB does not have a Salary Cap. Yes, I know they have a Luxury Tax if you want to pay it.  That is a huge difference when trying to structure your team.

 

As an aside, I don’t want The old fart, I just don’t see a two year deal for 6 million each is a bad grab.