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King Knut

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Those thing don't get updated. Tony Androckitis said Martel was up to 174 pounds and TK is only 180.

 

Either way he is big enough.

 

Jared Spurgeon is only 168 and plays just fine. HEART and determination is all that matters. Weal shys away from the physical stuff once you take it to him.

 

Yeah, I don't quite get what happened to Weal.  He played very differently all year than he did last spring.  More cautiously. 

 

Yeah, I could see how TK isn't going to get any bigger (don't think he needs to).

My concern about Martel is more about his game being geared to the AHL rather than them using that time to train him for an NHL role.  But they may have worked on that by the end of the yea.  

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4 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 Honestly, that's the new norm.

....

At some point, GMs (owners?) need to decide if they're ever going to start playing by the actual RFA rules.  Otherwise, it's increasingly going to be draft well, and trades.

Agree.  The UFA market is now littered with past-their-prime players and potential contract nightmares.

 

I just don't see teams using offer sheets.  It would open pandora's box in a number of ways.  Maybe they could tweak the arbitration rules in a way that would allow RFAs to become UFAs, but that seems unlikely.

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9 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Yeah, I don't quite get what happened to Weal.  He played very differently all year than he did last spring.  More cautiously. 

 

Yeah, I could see how TK isn't going to get any bigger (don't think he needs to).

My concern about Martel is more about his game being geared to the AHL rather than them using that time to train him for an NHL role.  But they may have worked on that by the end of the yea.  

 

I tell ya what happened.

 

He got paid.

 

It happens a lot.

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I tell ya what happened.

 

He got paid.

 

It happens a lot.

 

If he kept playing the way he did last spring for two more years, he'd get paid again... and a lot more.  

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3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

If he kept playing the way he did last spring for two more years, he'd get paid again... and a lot more.  

 

He ain't worth the time or roster spot now trade him now for whatever.

 

Give his spot to a kid he'll be 27 next year. 

 

Nothing to see here with him.

 

Buh bye

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Apparently, the losing in Buffalo has really gotten to O'Reilly. Seemed really beaten down in his exit interview, and sounds like Buffalo might be willing to move him. 5 years left at 7+. Would you trade for him at a reduced salary? The term is an issue, but he's still pretty young.

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11 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Apparently, the losing in Buffalo has really gotten to O'Reilly. Seemed really beaten down in his exit interview, and sounds like Buffalo might be willing to move him. 5 years left at 7+. Would you trade for him at a reduced salary? The term is an issue, but he's still pretty young.

 

I personally would not.   And not just because of the Buffalo stench.   It would possibly make an interesting lineup of centers for us, though.   I don't have any interest in giving up what it would take to get him, though.

 

That and the Buffalo stench.

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

I personally would not.   And not just because of the Buffalo stench.   It would possibly make an interesting lineup of centers for us, though.   I don't have any interest in giving up what it would take to get him, though.

 

That and the Buffalo stench.

 

I'd inquire, but you're right, it probably would be too much. And 5 years is a bit long for a non-core guy.

 

I do wonder what kind of center might be out there on the trade market.

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39 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Apparently, the losing in Buffalo has really gotten to O'Reilly. Seemed really beaten down in his exit interview, and sounds like Buffalo might be willing to move him. 5 years left at 7+. Would you trade for him at a reduced salary? The term is an issue, but he's still pretty young.

 

That is interesting....i would have to think about that.

 

The best thing about hi is he can play any forward position.

 

So it would mean that someone would have to go at forward to make room. 

 

At a reduced salary i would certainly do it. But what would be the price tag??

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On 5/3/2018 at 1:06 PM, King Knut said:

I still assert that that Weise wasn’t a bad signing... he just has stunk more than his track record before coming here.  

Dont know why, but he’s just not doing what he had done before. 

 

Weise is a lifetime .24 ppg player. With the Flyers he's a .21 ppg player. That's not too far off from "what he's done before" from where I sit. And he can't even crack a lineup more than Johi Lehterribe.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 2:51 PM, ruxpin said:

Hindsight is hindsight and all that, but given what was available at the time and what the perceived needs were, it made sense.  I wasn't excited about the signing--I don't think it was supposed to be "exciting"--but I didn't hate it.   I'm not sure, either, what's happened there.  The only point was that signings that are now the norm are a crap shoot and you win some, you lose some. 

 

I just don't get more than double the pay at more than double the length of any contract he's had since his ELC.

 

YMMV.

 

That's the egregious part of the signing for me. You want to give him Jordan Weal money for a couple years? I'd be happier with that.

 

Two more years of this at $2.35M? UGH

 

On 5/3/2018 at 4:00 PM, King Knut said:

Yeah, I don't quite get what happened to Weal.  He played very differently all year than he did last spring.  More cautiously.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 4:12 PM, King Knut said:

If he kept playing the way he did last spring for two more years, he'd get paid again... and a lot more.  

 

From where I sit he was working his butt off to get another contract and then got a deal. In one instance it's like needing to go out and prove yourself and in the next you feel maybe just that little bit "proven." I don't think you get roly poly comfy on $3.5M but it's almost triple what you were getting before.

 

And his size doesn't help things once bigger guys are deliberately targeting him to get him off his game.

 

I just don't know that he has the NHL game to get "a lot more". I just don't - and didn't - see him being a .5 ppg player over 82 games and the playoffs - much less a 28-goal scorer (8 in 22 pace) on a consistent basis.

 

14 hours ago, AJgoal said:

Apparently, the losing in Buffalo has really gotten to O'Reilly. Seemed really beaten down in his exit interview, and sounds like Buffalo might be willing to move him. 5 years left at 7+. Would you trade for him at a reduced salary? The term is an issue, but he's still pretty young.

 

14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I personally would not.   And not just because of the Buffalo stench.   It would possibly make an interesting lineup of centers for us, though.   I don't have any interest in giving up what it would take to get him, though.

 

Yeah - this. And he's your prototypical second line center and theoretically the Flyers have a young 2C in the works. He's a demon on faceoffs and has offensive talent. I think his exit interview was more of an explanation of why the team just deflated (and a possible indictment of the coaching staff), not an indication that he wants "out."

 

14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Coots

Patrick

O'reilly

Vorobyev

 

down the center next year sounds good.... 

 

Thing is - it isn't just "next" year, it's the next six years for O'Reilly.

 

I like the player a lot, I just don't like the fit in Philadelphia.

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On 04/05/2018 at 10:00 PM, AJgoal said:

Apparently, the losing in Buffalo has really gotten to O'Reilly. Seemed really beaten down in his exit interview, and sounds like Buffalo might be willing to move him. 5 years left at 7+. Would you trade for him at a reduced salary? The term is an issue, but he's still pretty young.

 

I wouldn't. Not that he's a bad player per se, but he'd be overpaid as a 3C. He'd essentially be used in a checking role, which is something he's pretty good at, but seven million for five years for a checking center doesn't make much sense to me. We could get a Bozak for cheaper, and they'd fill basically the same role. Is O'Reilly better than Bozak? Yeah, probably, but not by that much, especially not in a third line and PK role.

 

We've got some kids coming up who should challenge for the 3C spot in the next year or two (Voro, Vex). Give them a shot first before saddling the team with a seven million dollar guy. If you want someone with more experience, go for Bozak or someone of the sort. The difference will be marginal imo. It's not like we're an O'Reilly away from a cup run.

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1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

I wouldn't. Not that he's a bad player per se, but he'd be overpaid as a 3C. He'd essentially be used in a checking role, which is something he's pretty good at, but seven million for five years for a checking center doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Which is why I predicated my question on a reduced salary. at 3.75-4.5 million? He looks a lot better. And folks are really hung up on the "checking line" anymore. The Flyers 1st line is their checking line. They go strength on strength, because they have a first line center who's a Selke candidate - much as the Bruins do. Much like the "energy" fourth line is disappearing in favor of a line that can provide a bit of offense, so is the traditional checking line. Teams are trying to roll a top 3 with scoring punch who are also defensively responsible. O'Reilly is no slouch on defense, so it's not like he can't go out and work on a Malkin or Ovechkin if he needs to, as well as fill some of the need on the PK. 

 

Quote

We could get a Bozak for cheaper, and they'd fill basically the same role. Is O'Reilly better than Bozak? Yeah, probably, but not by that much, especially not in a third line and PK role.

 

Bozak's not as good as O'Reilly, and is 6 years older. The only upside to Bozak is the length/cost of the contract he'll demand is likely less than the 5 years O'Reilly has remaining. And that he costs only money to acquire.

 

Quote

We've got some kids coming up who should challenge for the 3C spot in the next year or two (Voro, Vex). Give them a shot first before saddling the team with a seven million dollar guy.

 

This is why I don't really think I want him. 5 years is 5 years that he's taking up a roster spot, and I think Frost is the real deal. But O'Reilly is a capable LW as well as a C, so you have that option if someone takes that 3C role. 

 

Quote

If you want someone with more experience, go for Bozak or someone of the sort. The difference will be marginal imo. It's not like we're an O'Reilly away from a cup run.

 

No, but O'Reilly isn't a 6-12 month rental either, so it's not as if he'll disappear when they are ready to go on a run. And you can even look to move him again with some more withheld salary if all the kids come in and blow away expectations.

 

I don't think I pick him up, but if the Buffalo papers are right and the Sabres are considering shopping him, I at least make the call and see what they are looking for.

On 5/5/2018 at 11:45 AM, radoran said:

Yeah - this. And he's your prototypical second line center and theoretically the Flyers have a young 2C in the works. He's a demon on faceoffs and has offensive talent. I think his exit interview was more of an explanation of why the team just deflated (and a possible indictment of the coaching staff), not an indication that he wants "out."

 

No, he specifically said he would like to stay and help turn things around. But there are rumblings that the Sabres may want to move on. I agree on cost, though. Probably too much, but the Flyers have capitol to spend. The Flyers are at a point where they are getting close to running out of room for kids whose deals aren't going to slide. Part of the point of acquiring a bunch of assets is that you can use them to fill needs from a position of strength. 

 

Quote

 

Thing is - it isn't just "next" year, it's the next six years for O'Reilly.

 

 

Five. But again, he's still relatively young and if the Sabres hold salary, the Flyers could hold up to half of what's left if they decide to move him a couple three years down the line.

 

The five years and the capitol it would take are the biggest hangups I have here. But I'm trying to find options other than players that are hitting UFA. Pageau? Soderberg?

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

Which is why I predicated my question on a reduced salary. at 3.75-4.5 million?

 

I missed this part. I'm not really sure the Sabres would retain salary. O'Reilly is a decent 2C in the league, just not on the Flyers right now. Someone out there will take his full salary I expect. I doubt the Sabres will need to retain any amount.

 

That said, sure if the Sabres for some reason were to retain salary and bring him down to the four million range, that would be a solid deal for sure. I can't see it though. :/

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22 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I missed this part. I'm not really sure the Sabres would retain salary. O'Reilly is a decent 2C in the league, just not on the Flyers right now. Someone out there will take his full salary I expect. I doubt the Sabres will need to retain any amount.

 

That said, sure if the Sabres for some reason were to retain salary and bring him down to the four million range, that would be a solid deal for sure. I can't see it though. :/

 

Well honestly I could see the Flyers just sticking with their guys and saving the money for later.

 

Hak loves guys who are responsible defensively before he worries about any offense.

 

So with that said I think Vorbyev will be given every chance to win the 3rd center spot.

 

And I expect Vex to be given a chance to nail down the 4th line spot.

 

Then I could see if it ain't looking good by the time preseason is over you could see them reach out to a vet like Filppula even (yikes that made me throw up a little).

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14 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I missed this part. I'm not really sure the Sabres would retain salary. O'Reilly is a decent 2C in the league, just not on the Flyers right now. Someone out there will take his full salary I expect. I doubt the Sabres will need to retain any amount.

 

That said, sure if the Sabres for some reason were to retain salary and bring him down to the four million range, that would be a solid deal for sure. I can't see it though. :/

 

Probably not, but you never know. Long shot and all that. 

 

Barring that, I think the Flyers need to consider looking at acquiring two left wingers and run Giroux - Couturier - Patrick down the middle. Even if you figure Giroux is 80% of the player at center than he is at wing, that's a stronger group than Couturier - Patrick - reclamation UFA, and center play is more important than wingers. There are much better LW options in free agency than there are at center. Neal, Kane, and JVR have issues, but they score goals. Perron put up 66 points this season, so he is probably out of your price range. You can inquire with Ottawa about Hoffman. Chicago's in a cap crunch again, though I don't know that we're a trade match.

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On 5/5/2018 at 11:45 AM, radoran said:

 

Weise is a lifetime .24 ppg player. With the Flyers he's a .21 ppg player. That's not too far off from "what he's done before" from where I sit. And he can't even crack a lineup more than Johi Lehterribe.

 

I disagree.  He showed a general upward trend of becoming exactly the kind of player Hakstol wants.  His goals had been up a couple of years, sure but that was reflective of his minutes going up.  His possession, play driving and even strength numbers were all non a fairly steady incline. He didn’t have the look of a it about to break out, but he definitely had the look of a responsible checking 3rd liner capable of chewing up minutes productivly and giving 10+ goals a year. 

 

He he looked like a dude who’s grown up into a nice boring responsible NHL player, which is what his salary buys you.  

 

On Weal, all he demonstrated to me is that he’s just not a Hakstol guy (not a bad thing) and he needs healthy & semi-talented line mates to produce.  

 

He didnt produce with Weal and an injured / out of shape Patrick. Ok. 

He didn’t produce with Filppula and an injured Simmonds.  Okay. 

 

when do I start blaming him entirely? I don’t love him, I’m. Or defending him. I’m guess I’m literally just noting that he seems to need talented support  and for his coach to have given up on the playoffs.  

 

Neither is a compliment.  I just think he could do better. 

 

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27 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I disagree.  He showed a general upward trend of becoming exactly the kind of player Hakstol wants.  His goals had been up a couple of years, sure but that was reflective of his minutes going up.  His possession, play driving and even strength numbers were all non a fairly steady incline. He didn’t have the look of a it about to break out, but he definitely had the look of a responsible checking 3rd liner capable of chewing up minutes productivly and giving 10+ goals a year. 

 

He he looked like a dude who’s grown up into a nice boring responsible NHL player, which is what his salary buys you.  

 

On Weal, all he demonstrated to me is that he’s just not a Hakstol guy (not a bad thing) and he needs healthy & semi-talented line mates to produce.  

 

He didnt produce with Weal and an injured / out of shape Patrick. Ok. 

He didn’t produce with Filppula and an injured Simmonds.  Okay. 

 

when do I start blaming him entirely? I don’t love him, I’m. Or defending him. I’m guess I’m literally just noting that he seems to need talented support  and for his coach to have given up on the playoffs.  

 

Neither is a compliment.  I just think he could do better. 

 

 

Weal I think is moved this offseason or before the trade deadline he is 27 and it isn't like they have more time to waste with a less valuable Matt Read type. He is to soft and easy to take the puck from.

 

He needs strong linemates to be even remotely effective.

 

Times up in my eyes.

 

Worst case waive (which I don't think Ron will do I think he would like something for him even if it's a 19th round pick!).

 

He is being passed on the depth chart.

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3 hours ago, King Knut said:
3 hours ago, King Knut said:

I disagree.  He showed a general upward trend of becoming exactly the kind of player Hakstol wants.  His goals had been up a couple of years, sure but that was reflective of his minutes going up.  His possession, play driving and even strength numbers were all non a fairly steady incline.

 

 

i just don't see where a fairly boring third liner warrants double the length and more than double the salary.

 

Again,  not the player entirely - although I've never been a fan - just not a good signing.

 

Signing him for a couple of years, fine. Signing him for four was a mistake.

 

And, again, not hindsight if one was saying it at the time...

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I seen a rumor today the Wings were looking to move Gustav Nyquist....what about the Flyers kicking the tires on him...

 

 

...he is only under contract for 2018-19 for only 4.75 mill...just a thought...could he play 3rd line center??

 

giphy.gif

 

Just not sure what the cost would be.

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4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I seen a rumor today the Wings were looking to move Gustav Nyquist....what about the Flyers kicking the tires on him...

 

 

...he is only under contract for 2018-19 for only 4.75 mill...just a thought...could he play 3rd line center??

 

giphy.gif

 

Just not sure what the cost would be.

The cost would be the thing. And I'd prefer him on wing (he really doesn't play center often the past couple of years). But I'd definitely check it out. 

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6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

The cost would be the thing. And I'd prefer him on wing (he really doesn't play center often the past couple of years). But I'd definitely check it out. 

 

Worst case they hold onto him till the trade deadline like Mrazek.

 

I would kick the tires but I ain't overpaying for him it is a one year rental.

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19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Worst case they hold onto him till the trade deadline like Mrazek.

 

I would kick the tires but I ain't overpaying for him it is a one year rental.

I think it would be worth it, depending on cost. I think he's better than he's shown the last two years

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On 5/7/2018 at 7:30 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Weal I think is moved this offseason or before the trade deadline he is 27 and it isn't like they have more time to waste with a less valuable Matt Read type. He is to soft and easy to take the puck from.

 

He needs strong linemates to be even remotely effective.

 

Times up in my eyes.

 

Worst case waive (which I don't think Ron will do I think he would like something for him even if it's a 19th round pick!).

 

He is being passed on the depth chart.

 

I don't see how he's being passed on the depth chart because I don't see anyone stepping in just yet.  Maybe when Allison is ready or if Radcliffe or Strome look to make the NHL in the next two seasons, but I just don't see anyone taking his roster spot now.

 

That said, if they can acquire someone or if they need to send him away in order to acquire someone else, then it's a no brainer.  

 

If ONLY he was a Matt Read type, I wouldn't be worried about his scoring.  Matt Read stopped scoring and remained an effective player.  In fact, I believe if the team had kept Matt Read on the NHL roster instead of Weise and Lehtera, they'd have had a few more wins last year and the PK might have been a few % points better.

 

Weal needs to be scoring to be an effective player and if he's on a line with a guy who should be in surgery instead of on the ice and who can only score if playing on the PP and another guy who should be looking at properties in Boca or considering a reverse mortgage, he's not going to score much.  I think if they put him out there with a good 3C and a healthy Simmer (when will he be healthy again is a very good question) we'll see more of the guy from the end of last year.  I'm happy to trade him if he helps upgrade ANY OTHER POSITION (send him and Vecchione in a package with a 1st and a second  to Ottawa from Stone or Hoffman or to Calgary for Sean Monahan and I'd be thrilled) but I just don't necessarily see Martel overtaking him outright because they are too similar (smaller framed guys who tore it up on the AHL).  If Martel isn't scoring, he's no better and may in fact be worse than Weal.

 

 

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On 5/7/2018 at 10:59 PM, radoran said:

 

i just don't see where a fairly boring third liner warrants double the length and more than double the salary.

 

Again,  not the player entirely - although I've never been a fan - just not a good signing.

 

Signing him for a couple of years, fine. Signing him for four was a mistake.

 

And, again, not hindsight if one was saying it at the time...

 

I'm not saying it was a great grab, I'm just saying it wasn't as ludicrous as it's turned out to be.  

COntrarily, look at a guy like Grabner... much better track record IMHO but somehow signed a much friendlier deal for the Rangers.  He became a fairly valuable trade piece at the end of the season (stupid devils) but all in all, if I'm the rangers, I'd be much happier having him for a million more per year for another two years.  

 

If Hextall had gone after Grabner with Weise's contract, I'd be happer than a pig in poop right now.  But Hakstol didn't want a grabner type... he didn't want a speedy PK specialist who can net 20+ including a handful of Shorties a year... because he's Hakstol.

 

and I'm really beginning to think he's the biggest problem this team has. 

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