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4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

ut when Provorov starts showing that he can't control the puck and this should have been a predictable possibility, you should have planned for it. He didn't. 

 

My guess here was in warm-ups Provorov was able to pass the puck and Provorov stated he was good to go.  Provorov likely thought he could deal with the pain if the medication wore off.  What no one anticipated really was that his arm went numb.

 

Offensively, I'm thinking Hakstol may have also wanted to roll with the 4 lines giving him more checking forwards to help take the pressure off the d-men which was more important than giving Sanheim a shift a few times a game.

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Just take the letter d out of the name and you have a true Philly superstar

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Just to echo the above. 

 

I've never understood why a whole season at 50% is better than 75% of the season at 100%. What is the logic--on the organisation's part--that allows this? It seems self-defeating to me. 

 

On the player's side, I can kind of get it. If the guy is a gamer and is wired in such a way that he simply lives to play and is keenly aware that he only has a finite amount of time to do that (clock is always ticking), then he's going to push to play if he's physically capable of bearing weight and holding a stick.  I don't know that this is on the medical staff. Anyone can refuse medical treatment.  This is on management. At some point, management has to have a spine and say "Wayne (or Ivan, or Sean, or whomever) I know you want to play, but *I'm* not putting you in until you get a full duty medical release."

 

I know it's warrior manly testosterone proving to say you scored a hat trick on a torn MCL or were able to say you played but 'yeah, that's my left eye rolling around in the corner over there next to my right testicle,' but it really is in the best interest of team and player until he's reasonably healthy. 

 

This. This. This. Do I want a 75-80% Malkin for a full series? Or do I want him to miss 1 game and be 100% for the "rest" of the series? I'll take the latter every time. Little different with Provorov and Couturier since those injuries were at the end of a series where the Flyers were down. 

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I wonder if the 7th dman in the warm up was a little bit of gamesmanship.

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@hf101

 

I don't want you to think I don't get the logic of what you're saying.  I also know that some of what I'm saying is bolstered by hindsight.

 

In Hakstol's defense, I know this is a "pull from column B to help column A" and that has consequences.   He was facing a team where the forward lines were struggling to keep up with theirs.  He went with bigger and more physical for game 5 and reasonably thought that had been successful (it's arguable, but it also tremendously helped that they got competent goaltending for that game).   Going to 11 forwards clearly undermines (and outright handicaps) that.  I also get the comment about Couturier.  His situation made spreading the time created by a missing forward all the more difficult.   Who do you sit and how do you cover it?   I think that part is a little easier given the bottom two lines have been so interchangeable all year, but it certainly has its challenges and those challenges were exacerbated by Coots (and Simmonds probably).  

 

Either way is a gamble, clearly.

 

So, if Provorov looks good in warmups and says he can go, I get the temptation.  For two periods, it looked like that gamble might pay off.  I get the call.  I also get that if Provorov proves capable the whole game and they lose, there are those of us yelling, "Hak's playing not to lose again!"  I get that he didn't exactly have great options, especially in an elimination game. Probably with some benefit of hindsight, I think it was the wrong choice.   

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Maybe we should consider trading Giroux after his whining about the fans booing, instead of Simmonds. Don't blame the booing Claude. Blame bad goaltending, poor defense and lackluster special teams, Claude, not the fans who pay a lot of money to see you.

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15 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Don't blame the booing Claude

 

Yeah, what the hell was that?  I don't want to over-exaggerate it, but that was kind of odd.

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15 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

@hf101

 

I don't want you to think I don't get the logic of what you're saying.  I also know that some of what I'm saying is bolstered by hindsight.

 

In Hakstol's defense, I know this is a "pull from column B to help column A" and that has consequences.   He was facing a team where the forward lines were struggling to keep up with theirs.  He went with bigger and more physical for game 5 and reasonably thought that had been successful (it's arguable, but it also tremendously helped that they got competent goaltending for that game).   Going to 11 forwards clearly undermines (and outright handicaps) that.  I also get the comment about Couturier.  His situation made spreading the time created by a missing forward all the more difficult.   Who do you sit and how do you cover it?   I think that part is a little easier given the bottom two lines have been so interchangeable all year, but it certainly has its challenges and those challenges were exacerbated by Coots (and Simmonds probably).  

 

Either way is a gamble, clearly.

 

So, if Provorov looks good in warmups and says he can go, I get the temptation.  For two periods, it looked like that gamble might pay off.  I get the call.  I also get that if Provorov proves capable the whole game and they lose, there are those of us yelling, "Hak's playing not to lose again!"  I get that he didn't exactly have great options, especially in an elimination game. Probably with some benefit of hindsight, I think it was the wrong choice.   

 

 

Not at all. Hakstol pretty much explained it during his post-game interview.  It was pretty much a 50 - 50 decision.  I agreed as he thought he had the best roster to win the game with the 12 F and 6 D.  Had Provorov said to his coach in the 3rd... "I can't go anymore, I can't feel my arm" Hakstol would have played the remainder of the game with 5-d men.  It wouldn't be the first time a team was forced to play 5 d-men to end a game.  But as we see the warrior Provorov is he wasn't going to make that statement.  Thus, I can't put the blame on Hakstol nor Provorov in hindsight to game.

 

Sure we had Pittsburgh on their heels, and it would have been great to oust them in the first round, but, hey, next year!  :)

 

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, what the hell was that?  I don't want to over-exaggerate it, but that was kind of odd.

 

This is Couts and Provo's team now. This may be part of a larger shift going forward. Hopefully it doesn't spiral.

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14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Glad to hear you're okay. 

Thanks Rux. All can say is that was on of the worst pains I've ever had. Glad I didn't try to be hero and not go in or I would still be in the hospital. That's what the surgeon told me.  Also Morphine is one hell drug. 

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2 minutes ago, albertaflyer said:

Thanks Rux. All can say is that was on of the worst pains I've ever had. Glad I didn't try to be hero and not go in or I would still be in the hospital. That's what the surgeon told me.  Also Morphine is one hell drug. 

 

I had my appendix rupture untreated for at least two days (must have been about 21 years ago because my oldest was an infant).  What saved my life (or didn't cause a dangerous sepsis situation, anyway) was that when it ruptured a bubble was formed and the fluid, whatever, went into the bubble.  It was starting to dissolve and leak slowly when I finally went in.   I wasn't actually showing classic signs and the pain wasn't severe for me and wasn't in the area that made it obvious.  The doctor guessed maybe appendix and opened me to check it and had said they'd just take it while in there even if it wasn't.   I remember very little until the next morning because I'd gone into shock.  I went in on a Wednesday afternoon and didn't come out until the following Tuesday.

 

I used to lie on my back on the floor and bounce my infant daughter (she was about 8 months old) on my knees and bounce her around and bounce down onto my stomach.  She'd laugh uncontrollably.  I was sick to my stomach and nauseated and really no strength starting that Sunday.  So, I hadn't done that at all.  I was told later by my doctor that had I done so, it was highly possible it would have been life-threatening.

 

Morphine was good, you're right.   Out of all of it, though, their removing the drain from my abdomen was possibly the worst.  That and we didn't know I had a problem with percocet administered intravenously so I had to be catheterized.  I take the drain thing back; that was the worst.

 

Glad to hear you're doing well.

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3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I've never understood why a whole season at 50% is better than 75% of the season at 100%. What is the logic--on the organisation's part--that allows this? It seems self-defeating to me. 

 

Dumb dumbs is all just look at poor Morin instead of just shutting him down they are still letting try to come back....and he has yet to even play for the damn Phantoms.

 

 

They don't know how to do what is best for the "asset" which really is what these kids are...valuable assets!!!!

 

#brainfartingstill

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18 hours ago, hf101 said:

Lots of injuries, wow. 

 

Wayne Simmonds injury timeline

• Enters training camp with torn pelvis.

• Oct. 17: pulled groin

• Oct. 19: broken teeth from Mattias Ekholm’s stick

• Late Oct: breaks ankle from Shayne Gostisbehere snapshot

• Feb. 16: tore ligament in his hand.

 

 

 

 

 

Just wow. So at least we know what happened to him now.

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

 

Just wow. So at least we know what happened to him now.

He came to camp with it. So how the hell did it happen? Did he dress up like an Ottawa cop? 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

This is Couts and Provo's team now. This may be part of a larger shift going forward. Hopefully it doesn't spiral.

I was wondering if we were beginning to see that shift as well.

@ruxpin

 

With regard to the booing though, I wonder if there is a cultural difference with this ?

 

What I mean is Giroux has been direct when asked questions about a lot of things. I remember a couple of years ago when he was asked about his wrists having casts, and he answered "Crosby did it".... well, Crosby did do it. 

He doesn't strike me as a guy that would bring the booing up but would answer directly that he didn't like it. Truly I don't mind if that's how this quote came about.  I prefer direct as opposed to cliche. 

I don't know the guy but I get the impression he doesn't always filter his thoughts.

 

I find the Philly fan base's relationship with it's best pro athletes to be odd at best. 

Edited by mojo1917

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I was wondering if we were beginning to see that shift as well.

@ruxpin

 

With regard to the booing though, I wonder if there is a cultural difference with this ?

 

What I mean is Giroux has been direct when asked questions about a lot of things. I remember a couple of years ago when he was asked about his wrists having casts, and he answered "Crosby did it".... well, Crosby did do it. 

He doesn't strike me as a guy that would bring the booing up but would answer directly that he didn't like it. Truly I don't mind if that's how this quote came about.  I prefer direct as opposed to cliche. 

I don't know the guy but I get the impression he doesn't always filter his thoughts.

 

I find the Philly fan base's relationship with it's best pro athletes to be odd at best

Mike Schmidt says hello. 

 

Yeah, I think you're on point with all of that. 

Edited by ruxpin
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3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:
9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I find the Philly fan base's relationship with it's best pro athletes to be odd at best

Mike Schmidt says hello. 

 

LOL ... I was just thinking the same thing.

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Mike Schmidt says hello. 

 

Yeah, I think you're on point with all of that. 

 

 

Yeah and McNabb just tweeted at Giorux wasn't boo when he was drafted...he said suck it up punk!!!!!

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23 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Seriously i could see Ron hold onto him to let him rebound from this past year and at the same time increasing his trade value before the deadline.

 

And with all that said i can see them working out a deal and him giving a sort of home team discount to stay in Philly.

 

Only Simmer knows what he would take to stay.

 

He has been one of my favs since he has laced them up for the Flyers....so i am torn on what to do with him.

 

At the end of the day i want what is best for the team....my heart aside. Myself...like i said this is just me speaking. I would rather trade Jake.

Would like to see 2 of the big 3 t0 be gone

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On April 26, 2018 at 7:35 AM, ruxpin said:

I've never understood why a whole season at 50% is better than 75% of the season at 100%. 

 

 Not a personal attack, but read the first three words that I quoted.

 

 A couple years ago, both Ghost and Giroux had surgery in the off-season. Neither one of them came back for following season and played up to the level we thought they should.   Did they come back at 100%?  Nolan Patrick had surgery in June and It took him till after the All-Star break to finally round into form. That's 6-7 months. 

 

 My point is the equation that you used may not be accurate. It could have been the whole season at 50% or it could've been 3/4 or possibly 1/2 season at 50%. 

 

 If the doctor says he can play through the injury and not do more damage, 99.9% NHL players are going to play through the injury.  Simmonds  is not unique in that respect. 

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8 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

 Not a personal attack, but read the first three words that I quoted.

 

 A couple years ago, both Ghost and Giroux had surgery in the off-season. Neither one of them came back for following season and played up to the level we thought they should.   Did they come back at 100%?  Nolan Patrick had surgery in June and It took him till after the All-Star break to finally round into form. That's 6-7 months. 

 

 My point is the equation that you used may not be accurate. It could have been the whole season at 50% or it could've been 3/4 or possibly 1/2 season at 50%. 

 

 If the doctor says he can play through the injury and not do more damage, 99.9% NHL players are going to play through the injury.  Simmonds  is not unique in that respect. 

 

Don't worry about feeling like you have to explain something is not a personal attack (unless you're doing it for the sake of others' responses to it).  I wouldn't ever interpret you as doing that.

 

I am a little confused about which first three words, though, but the rest of the post makes your case despite that.

 

I don't disagree with your conclusion that Simmonds is not unique in this respect.  I'm not sure the comparison to Patrick or Giroux is the same thing, though.   Patrick didn't just have surgery in June.  He also missed most of the previous season due to injury and not having the surgery sooner.   It wasn't just surgery.  It was a year of not being in game shape.    I don't think--my recollection isn't clear, though--that Giroux was just the surgery either, but if I have the right summer he also wasn't good the year prior because of playing injured.  And --again the memory is vague on it--I think something else was bothering him the season after it. 

 

Ghost I don't have memory of at all but you must be talking about his sophomore year.  I really think that was more sophomore slump than anything else but could be wrong.

 

It's certainly case by case, and you're right that 99.9% of NHL players will play through it.  I think more than half should not and it's counter productive both for them and for the organization.  To be clear, though, I'm blaming the organizations, not the players.

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18 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

If the doctor says he can play through the injury and not do more damage, 99.9% NHL players are going to play through the injury.

 

 

Sure but it isn't always about just the player....it's about the team....and if you are hurting the TEAM then you need to not play.

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On 4/25/2018 at 7:01 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Seriously i could see Ron hold onto him to let him rebound from this past year and at the same time increasing his trade value before the deadline.

 

And with all that said i can see them working out a deal and him giving a sort of home team discount to stay in Philly.

 

Only Simmer knows what he would take to stay.

 

He has been one of my favs since he has laced them up for the Flyers....so i am torn on what to do with him.

 

At the end of the day i want what is best for the team....my heart aside. Myself...like i said this is just me speaking. I would rather trade Jake.

 

I think Hexy's going to use this year to get him on a sweetheart deal and keep him in Philly for less than the 6 or 7 million he'd get on the open market after a good season next year. 

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2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Sure but it isn't always about just the player....it's about the team....and if you are hurting the TEAM then you need to not play.

 

There's also the question of whether it's going to get better playing on it.  If taking the time off in October would have given us a better Simmer in April, he should tae taken it.

 

Not sure that's the case with a pelvic tear, but a groin pull especially.

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A great read by Bill on Simmer and his future nothing in there of course we don't already know or discussed...

 

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

"This is where I want to be for the rest of my career, but I do realize at the same time that hockey is a business and whatever happens, happens. If I do end up signing the extension then that’s great, but hopefully I stay here and get to work my way into an extension. I know this year wasn’t ideal for me and they probably didn’t see for me what would require an extension, but this is definitely where I want to be," Simmonds said.

 

This will be a hard decision to make IF they can't find a common ground....WHEN to trade him if that is what they decide.

 

To me i think they would need to do it before the season if that is the choice.

 

The reason being is it will give the team time to adjust before playing any games of meaning and time to audition his replacement (which they should have a good idea before doing so) in camp/preseason.

 

And it protects them from him maybe struggling like a lot do after his surgery like we saw Patrick take a good portion of the year to get back 100% therefor lowering his value further. 

 

Is there a chance he could play lights and then it look like they under sold him?? Of course. 

 

But it would be the risk i'd be willing to take so his value doesn't drop further.

 

But who knows maybe they resolve it and he stays. 

 

Just looking at the depth at RW behind him...

 

NAK ready to make a jump next year and make the Flyers

Allison should attend college 2018-19

Kase should join the Phantoms 2018-19

Sushko 2018-19 should be last year of juniors for him

 

So they will be trickling in beginning next year.

 

They already have Jake and Konecny at RW now.

 

So would Simmer be holding up these kids in 2-3 years??

 

I'm sure this will be weighed in the equation hard.

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      I admire his toughness and commitment, but at what point does the organization simply shut a player down?  I mean, if he's out the first six weeks of the season, might he return in better form and make a better contribution later in the season and in the playoffs?  A player like Simmonds is going to play until you tell him he can't.  Just seems like the organization should have taken notice and said, "Take a rest and come back stronger."
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      Just to echo the above.    I've never understood why a whole season at 50% is better than 75% of the season at 100%. What is the logic--on the organisation's part--that allows this? It seems self-defeating to me.    On the player's side, I can kind of get it. If the guy is a gamer and is wired in such a way that he simply lives to play and is keenly aware that he only has a finite amount of time to do that (clock is always ticking), then he's going to push to play if he's physically capable of bearing weight and holding a stick.  I don't know that this is on the medical staff. Anyone can refuse medical treatment.  This is on management. At some point, management has to have a spine and say "Wayne (or Ivan, or Sean, or whomever) I know you want to play, but *I'm* not putting you in until you get a full duty medical release."   I know it's warrior manly testosterone proving to say you scored a hat trick on a torn MCL or were able to say you played but 'yeah, that's my left eye rolling around in the corner over there next to my right testicle,' but it really is in the best interest of team and player until he's reasonably healthy. 
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