brelic Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, vis said: My level of "Yuck" depends on the contract. I don't know if he improves things all that much. Sadly, he and Neal are the only LW out there worth looking at. Well, he's 29, coming off a 36 goal campaign (54 points). He made $5M last year ($4.25M AAV cap hit). Stastny is 32, coming off a 16 goal, 53 point season. He made $7.5M ($7M AAV). And then you've got Bozak, who is not in the same class (11g, 42p) and will almost certainly fetch north of $5M on a new deal. I'm thinking JVR will get $6+, probably closer to $7M and 5+ years. Is he worth it? And does he bring more than Simmonds would? If not, then just keep Simmonds. Much better team player and the team and fans love him. I guess I'm thinking if we would consider that amount for JVR is just makes way more sense to give that to Simmer instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I wonder how much a guy like JVR will want? It's a down year for UFAs generally. My guess is he and Neal will get about the same amount, whatever that is. I can see a team tossing 5-6 to him for four or so years. It's hard to say if he'd be worth it. I don't hate him as much as some others around here seem to. Giroux/Couts/TK JVR/Patrick/Voracek Lindblom/???/Simmonds Of course, it doesn't help our goalie situation, nor would it give us a decent 3C option. It would help us on the left side though, which is another thing we do need. I dunno. I wouldn't be opposed to it. As long as he doesn't have unrealistic expectations for salary or term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, brelic said: I'm thinking JVR will get $6+, probably closer to $7M and 5+ years. You think? I don't know. 7mil seems like a lot for a ~50pt guy. I know I wouldn't want him for that much. I think the only way he gets 7 million is if a team is desperate and can't find any other decent LW options. Otherwise, I think he gets 6 million max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, elmatus said: You think? I don't know. 7mil seems like a lot for a ~50pt guy. I know I wouldn't want him for that much. I think the only way he gets 7 million is if a team is desperate and can't find any other decent LW options. Otherwise, I think he gets 6 million max. I know, it seems high, but I'm looking at what Bozak and Stastny would get, and that might drive the price up for JVR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 33 minutes ago, brelic said: I'm thinking JVR will get $6+, probably closer to $7M and 5+ years. Somewhere in that neighborhood. Is Cam Atkinson a fair comparison? He signed a 7 year deal with a $5.875m cap hit. Had 35G and 27A the year before he signed his deal. Granted, he signed a year younger than JVR, but his new contract kicks in when he's 29. He may have given a little hometown discount as well. Despite the stats, JVR doesn't strike me as a play driver. I do believe he played with Bozak as his center for a good chunk of the year. He'd help the second pairing PP. Quote Is he worth it? And does he bring more than Simmonds would? If not, then just keep Simmonds. Much better team player and the team and fans love him. Fair points re: Simmonds. But, couldn't you trade Simmonds and get assets back? Can we not have both? Edited to respond to the following: 32 minutes ago, brelic said: And then you've got Bozak, who is not in the same class (11g, 42p) and will almost certainly fetch north of $5M on a new deal. I'm starting to wonder a little bit about whether Bozak will fetch that amount. I guess one difference will be that he may get that amount for a shorter term (GM's trading cap hit for term), whereas JVR will most likely sign for greater term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, brelic said: I know, it seems high, but I'm looking at what Bozak and Stastny would get, and that might drive the price up for JVR. But that's comparing two Cs to a LW. Maybe there wouldn't be much of a difference, though. However, some GM with a desperate need for a LWer will undoubtedly inflate JVR's value. Same could be said for Bozak and Stastny, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I wasn't much interested in having JVR the first time around. There were flashes when he played alongside Giroux where I was entertained with "these two could be fun to watch together for a few years." And then not so much. He reminded me of a less physical Brayden Schenn: along for the ride, short attention span, long periods of seeming disinterest, multiple chances in a variety of roles and slots and never seemed to take advantage. We got a first rounder for B. Schenn (assuming the second first rounder was for taking Oompha Loompha and his insane salary). We got an over-employed donut maker for JVR. (Please don't equate Hextall to Holmgren anymore). So, while I wasn't unhappy to see JVR traded the first time, six years later I still cannot fathom the return. In a completely unrelated subject, I really wish I was selling cars to Paul Holmgren. "I have this beautiful Yugo for $95,000. NO ONE drives a car like this, Paul. No one! You'll stand out and everyone will think you're bigly terrific. The bigliest. Everyone says so!" Cha ching! "I told you it was a Yugo, Paul. It's supposed to sound like that. What are the heated lines on the back window for? For keeping your hands warm while you push. Dumb ass." All that said, he may be okay at this point of his career for the second or third line left winger (third line if we're going with three scoring lines). But honestly, he's a .645 PPG player through his career. .712 PPG as a Maple Leaf. It's not horrible, but he's a role player coming off an AAV of $4.25M/yr. who is 29 years old. I'd kick the tires on 4 years $5.5M/yr., $6.25M/yr. for three years (and expose him to Seattle) OR two years at $7M/yr. That would be, "take it or leave it, Jimmy Van Ricedyck." He can spend someone else's money if he wants more than that. $7M is too high, but at a 2 year term it doesn't hurt me at all in regard to signing the bulk of my kids and gives us a scoring winger for the 2nd or 3rd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 4 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I guess if the term and cap hit are short and small it's not a bad move. On it's face this seems good, then I remember the Pens thought so highly of Sheahan they traded for Brassard. At the time I thought Sheahan was a significant drop off from Bonino. I guess I wasn't the only one. Does signing him gum up the works as far as seeing what becomes of, Rubstov, Voyrobev, and Veccione ? There's a lot to like about Sheahan, he looks great getting of the bus, and is a good player too, but is he really an upgrade ? I don't remember him on the the Pens PK, (that doesn''t mean he wasn't on it} having some speed and PK ability is paramount for me for the player in our 3C role. Well, in terms of Riley Sheahan's 2017 - 2018 stats: Goals - 11 Assists - 21 Points - 32 Face Offs - 1033 Face Offs Won - 560 Face Off % - 54.4% PK Ice Time Per Game - 2:26 Ice Time - 15:07 per game (Pittsburgh) The other thing about Sheahan is that he's also capable of playing the wing. Get him a 3 year/$10 million deal and you've secured the 3rd line center spot. As for Rubtsov, Vorobyov and Vecchione, there's still room for those guys too. Vorobyov will be groomed to be the 4C, Vecchione will be the 4RW and as for Rubtsov, you're looking at playing him for a couple of seasons in Lehigh Valley before he cracks the lineup anyways. Sheahan holds nobody back. I think it's a great fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 5 hours ago, vis said: I could tolerate $5m for 2 or maybe 3 years given the cap space. Myself i think i would lean offering Brodziak a one year deal or if he had to have two like he is coming off of with the Blues i would do that but that would be it. He is coming off a 2 year 1.3mill per deal that is a safe contract that could be movable in a year if need be. He put up the damn near same points and faceoff numbers last year as Bozak and is slightly bigger and ore physical. I'm leery of ROR and his contract...they would have to pick some money for me to even consider him. And what is it going to cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 hours ago, ruxpin said: I wasn't much interested in having JVR the first time around And the biggest thing is he will be in Hak's doghouse so quick with his lack of interest in his own end your head will spin... ...hell no...find another option....there has to better a safer option. HARD PASS!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, brelic said: I'm thinking JVR will get $6+, probably closer to $7M and 5+ years. Is he worth it? And does he bring more than Simmonds would? If not, then just keep Simmonds. Much better team player and the team and fans love him. I guess I'm thinking if we would consider that amount for JVR is just makes way more sense to give that to Simmer instead. I want no part of Van Useless. The biggest floater and non-factor I've seen. Let him be someone else's $6.5+ Million problem. The Flyers are better off playing Lindblom in the 2LW spot and letting him develop into that role and then moving Laughton to 3LW and use his speed and shot there. Hextall really needs to upgrade the 3C, add one more capable defender and then address the goaltending. Another year of Elliott/Neuvirth simply can't happen. I just don't think he's going to do anything like that though and that he'll look for bargain bin finds and then talk about how they're 'good team guys' that 'provide intangibles' that most coaches like. You can pretty much predict his speeches before the offseason begins....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 40 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Another year of Elliott/Neuvirth simply can't happen. They can not start the year again with these two....i would love to trade for Anderson out of Ottawa or go the free agent route and sign Lehner anything besides go through another year of those two. I think Neuvy is the better goaltender...but he can't stay healthy so i try to love move him for whatever you can get and wish him well. I'd love to package Neuvy and Gudas to the Sens for Anderson...not sure if that would be enough... ..Condon and Neuvy would give them a good chance at another lottery pick...the Jack Hughes sweps...Flyers get Elliott and Anderson to battle in net...the only risk with Anderson is his age... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 32 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Face Offs - 1033 Face Offs Won - 560 Face Off % - 54.4% PK Ice Time Per Game - 2:26 Ice Time - 15:07 per game (Pittsburgh) that's nice. He probably back checks like a mofo too, maybe he can tutor the Flyers on that whole, "tying the stick up without drawing a penalty " thing the Pens do too. I saw (on hockeybuzz) Pgh is going to try to resign him. They didn't want to go through arbitration with him. So I don't know if that means he'll be motivated to look elsewhere or if Pgh is doing him a solid... For me the 3C is the area that needs an upgrade, Filpulla wasn't bad, but he wasn't good either, Sheahan is a better skater but probably not as slick with his handle as Fil is/was, plus Filpulla's lack of speed made him a sub-optimal PKer so, the fact that Sheahan has averaged what looks like top PKer minutes is definitely value added. I would have no problem with spending serious cap dollars to solidify that 3C slot. Sheahan may be a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 42 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Well, in terms of Riley Sheahan's 2017 - 2018 stats: Goals - 11 Assists - 21 Points - 32 Face Offs - 1033 Face Offs Won - 560 Face Off % - 54.4% PK Ice Time Per Game - 2:26 Ice Time - 15:07 per game (Pittsburgh) The other thing about Sheahan is that he's also capable of playing the wing. Get him a 3 year/$10 million deal and you've secured the 3rd line center spot. As for Rubtsov, Vorobyov and Vecchione, there's still room for those guys too. Vorobyov will be groomed to be the 4C, Vecchione will be the 4RW and as for Rubtsov, you're looking at playing him for a couple of seasons in Lehigh Valley before he cracks the lineup anyways. Sheahan holds nobody back. I think it's a great fit. I would be ok with this option too....i imagine he will have many suitors on the market...guess we'll see soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: he can't stay healthy so i try to love him for whatever you can get and wish him well That's nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, ruxpin said: That's nice. Cat's out the bag... ...thanks fixed...but seriously i don't hate the guy...he just is made of glass and he would be the starter in Philly if not for that. He could help Ottawa tank again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Cat's out the bag... ...thanks fixed...but seriously i don't hate the guy...he just is made of glass and he would be the starter in Philly if not for that. He could help Ottawa tank again... I don’t think Ottawa wants to tank. They have to give their 1st to Colorado next year. They had the choice for this year or next, and even knowing they’d probably be worse next year, they chose to keep this year’s pick. That organization is a mess. Can you imagine the Avs with MacKinnon AND Hughes? Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, brelic said: I don’t think Ottawa wants to tank. They have to give their 1st to Colorado next year. They had the choice for this year or next, and even knowing they’d probably be worse next year, they chose to keep this year’s pick. That organization is a mess. Can you imagine the Avs with MacKinnon AND Hughes? Ugh. Thanks for the reminder I forgot that. Well squash that idea kind of. However Anderson has requested a trade so my offer stands...just not sure if they are willing to move him as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Would it be crazy to trade.... ...Simmer and then turn around and offer sheet Mark Stone??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Would it be crazy to trade.... ...Simmer and then turn around and offer sheet Mark Stone??? Lol yes. I don't think we're offer sheeting anyone. Fun to imagine, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I keep forgetting about Weal, which could be a decent throw-in to any trade. I'm not sure he has much of a future on this team. As it stands right now, we're kind of full up unless/until we move bodies out. G/Coots/TK Lindblom/Patrick/Voracek Simmonds/Laughton/Raffl Weal/Lehtera/Leier Weise Provorov/Ghost Sanheim/MacD Hagg/Gudas Morin (LTIR) Elliott/Neuvirth That's a 22 man roster with 1 LTIR. So we have a need for a healthy 7th defenseman (either Myers, a FA, or through trade), and we are full up front barring a move. I know Hextall has said he's exploring 3C options. If it's a FA signing, there's no room for any new forward rookies. Now, one of Lehtera or Weise will likely be assigned to the AHL, and maybe we see Vorobyev, Vecchione, NAK or Goulbourne. Put another way, I think we make either no moves or 2+ to get the roster in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, brelic said: I keep forgetting about Weal, which could be a decent throw-in to any trade. I agree... ...Neuvy, Weal and Gudas for....filling in the blank!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I agree... ...Neuvy, Weal and Gudas for....filling in the blank!!!!!! ...Ryan Strome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 So, I decided to check out csnphilly.com and wow, the restless Philadelphians are frothing at the mouth and they want Hextall's head on a platter. I've never seen so many angry people on there who believe he's going to do nothing and stick with the status quo or re-sign Filppula. It's kind of funny to read some of the stuff on there. I thought HFBoards and Orange And Black.net were bad....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I agree... ...Neuvy, Weal and Gudas for....filling in the blank!!!!!! Leon Draisatl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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