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Flyers 2018-19 Offseason moves


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10 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Hak's usage is far worse.

 

I don't actually blame Lavi for Bob.  I think you can make a justified argument that he used the rookie okay (was it his second year? I'm still okay).  I squarely blame Holmgren for panic moves that included trading Bob.

 

Lavi was trigger happy. It wasn't so much how he used Bob specifically, but how he used all his goaltenders. I think his ridiculous panic moves made the Flyers look like a laughing stock, and forced Homer's hand because old man Snider was breathing fire in the press. "This will never happen again."

 

Yes it did Ed. It just did. 

 

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6 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I agree, the only real mistake that Lavi made was to play Bob in that one playoff game which eliminated his waiver exemption. But that didn't cause any issues in an of itself, other than to force the Flyers to keep him up the next season. Bringing in psycho is what ultimately forced Bob out of town.

 

And yet Neuvy still has more playoff wins than Bob....just saying.

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2 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Good question about Sandstrom... I know that he's not interested in the AHL this year but I wonder if he would leave Sweden for an NHL gig? He signed a contract with a new team, so the whole thing may be moot anyway. I don't know if breaking a contract requires compensation or anything like that. 

 

 

I think the Flyers can dictate if they put him on the Flyers, no?  They are just prohibited from bringing him over to play for the Phantoms.

Does he still have the choice if the Flyers want him on the big team?

 

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

The fact that the message doesn't seem to be getting through is frustrating, though. Seriously, Hak's goalie usage is worse than Lavi's who basically cost us Bob. I know Homer pulled the trigger, but Lavi was a short-tempered ass clown and created that circus. 

 

I thought that at the time about Lavvy, and I was mad at Homer for letting Lavvy for POINTLESSLY put him in that horrible position.

It was pointless because the Flyers weren't losing 6-1 on bad goals like this year.  They were just getting shut out and losing 1-0 or 2-1.  i.e. it WASN'T THE GOALIE and Bob came in and proved that and eventually Boosh won the pointless war of attrition that series became and they got obliterated in the 2nd round.

 

BUT that said, there were a billion things Homer could have done to keep Bob.  Trading him was dumb. He traded him because he felt handcuffed by the folly he'd made with Bryzgalov and doubled down on Bryz.  In the end he blew it with bob and Bryz's looney toons act forced that buyout and the team was left with squat in net and had to go out and sign the guy who had become Bob's backup in Columbus... jesus christ i don't know how I didn't lose my mind.

 

You know what... any time any of us gets mad at Hextall, I think we need to remember that Homer traded the 2 time (maybe 3 time) Vezina winner so he could keep playing Bryzgalov and eventually had to trade for the guy Bob displaced just to have a starting goalie.  I still say that I think Homer had a stroke in the summer of 2012. Trading Bob for a 2nd rounder and trading JVR for Luke Schenn, Passing on Jagr all so so he could fail at signing Parise, Suter and Weber... and ostracize himself from the rest of the league' GM's in the process so only Dean Lombardi would deal with him... just wow.  WOW.  

 

Good lord.  Hextall is an undeniable genius in comparison.  Though to be fair, Homer's first year was pretty good.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Lavi was trigger happy. It wasn't so much how he used Bob specifically, but how he used all his goaltenders. I think his ridiculous panic moves made the Flyers look like a laughing stock, and forced Homer's hand because old man Snider was breathing fire in the press. "This will never happen again."

 

Yes it did Ed. It just did. 

 

 

To be fair to Lavvy, he took over a team and lost their starter and their backup in pretty tight succession.  There wasn't a whole lot of stability inherent in that team's situation.

 

Snider's decree demanding stability resulted in them giving the most absurdly long contract to (ironically) the league's most mentally unstable goaltender... and ultimately what cost them Bobrovsky, the 2, maybe 3 time Vezina winner.  CHEERS ED!  

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Just quoting the first line so you  know which post I'm talking about:

 

Man was that a great post.

 

I'm actually okay with Neuvirth on the 23-man roster for practice purposes.   I don't know that anyone's done that specifically for that purpose, but the Islanders ran with three.   It didn't work for them because they tried to play all three, but this is so crazy it just might work.

 

It is crazy, but the way things are looking they're going to have to play at least 3 again in the end no matter what.  Why not just plan on it and get Hart the minutes he needs and do it in a somewhat strategic way that might prevent or at least delay injuring Elliott as long as possible.  

 

Of course with Elliott coming off 2 Core muscle surgeries in 4 months, it's also smart to just plan on him not starting the season at 100% up to snuff anyway.

 

I'm not really suggesting anything that crazy.  It's ultimately what the've been forced to do. I"m just saying PLAN ON IT and PLAN ON DOING IT SMARTER than you do it in emergencies.  In two years hopefully you've got Sandstrom/Hart or Hart/Stolarz and you can stop thinking like a mad juggler, but in the mean time, you've got 3 flaming bowling pins... better figure out how you want to juggle them before throwing them up into the air. 

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7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I think the Flyers can dictate if they put him on the Flyers, no?

 

This i can't say i do know that next year his entry level deal starts ticking so he will be playing in the SHL on his entry level deal.

 

It is kind of a loan i think.

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14 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It is crazy, but the way things are looking they're going to have to play at least 3 again in the end no matter what.  Why not just plan on it and get Hart the minutes he needs and do it in a somewhat strategic way that might prevent or at least delay injuring Elliott as long as possible.  

 

Of course with Elliott coming off 2 Core muscle surgeries in 4 months, it's also smart to just plan on him not starting the season at 100% up to snuff anyway.

 

I'm not really suggesting anything that crazy.  It's ultimately what the've been forced to do. I"m just saying PLAN ON IT and PLAN ON DOING IT SMARTER than you do it in emergencies.  In two years hopefully you've got Sandstrom/Hart or Hart/Stolarz and you can stop thinking like a mad juggler, but in the mean time, you've got 3 flaming bowling pins... better figure out how you want to juggle them before throwing them up into the air. 

 

I don't actually think it's crazy in a "someone get him help!" way.  It was mostly a throw-away line saying it's "not the ordinary" but actually makes some sense.

 

You're scaring me with Elliott being not ready at the start of the season, but I don't think you're wrong.

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15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

This i can't say i do know that next year his entry level deal starts ticking so he will be playing in the SHL on his entry level deal.

 

It is kind of a loan i think.

 

Yeah, that was a "sign him" or he goes FA or back to the draft or some crap, right?

 

I don't know about their forcing him to the Flyers or not, but if they want him I'd be shocked if he were to object.  Not sure about his team there, though.  I think you're right that it's a loan-type situation.

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36 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

They're not far off.  Even if they'd just had decent goaltending, they might have survived the Penguins despite being significantly out coached throughout the series. 

Maybe.  Still not sure they are "legit" contenders.  But agree that they are not way off the mark.

 

36 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

If I'm Hextall, I'm on the phone with Ottawa offering draft picks for Mark Stone.  I'd also take a look at Mike Hoffman (though he costs more).  But Stone's the guy I want on our wing.  He's 25, he's productive, but he's also one of the best two way YOUNG players in the league not named Sean Couturier. 

Stone is a RW which would only add to the logjam at that position.  Unless you could deal Simmonds (possibly to Ott) or Voracek.  Hoffman is interesting because he's an LW.  

 

36 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I don't think they'll go near JVR with a 20ft pole.  He won't want to come back (let's face it... the little **** never wanted to be a Flyer) and even if Hextall could swallow that, I'm not sure there's a forward in this league less primed for Hakstol Hockey.  

Agree.  I would not be in favor of bringing him back.  But if they miss on Kane and no other LW help is available via trade, I wonder if they consider it.

 

36 minutes ago, King Knut said:

He makes the 23 man roster and he doesn't leave it or he gets claimed and you don't want another team getting THAT guy for free. 

Good points.  Alternatively, they may trade him or simply keep him in the AHL for another year on the basis that he needs to recover from last season.  

 

36 minutes ago, King Knut said:

The goaltending thing is a mess.

Absolutely and I don't see play from that position improving until Hart comes along (outside of trading for Holtby, which is an extreme longshot).  I think we are weathering the goalie storm for the next couple of years. 

 

36 minutes ago, King Knut said:

You gotta take a crack at it and the Flyers are in a unique position to do so without sacrificing ANYTHING.    It just makes too much sense not to try.

I agree.  But, they better have a good plan for signing the young kids as they come up for new deals.  Going after him hard seems so far out of character for Hextall.  Unless he can move some other expensive pieces (Voracek).  Would you sign Tavares for $11m and eat $1.5-2.0m of Jake's salary?

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5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't actually think it's crazy in a "someone get him help!" way.  It was mostly a throw-away line saying it's "not the ordinary" but actually makes some sense.

 

You're scaring me with Elliott being not ready at the start of the season, but I don't think you're wrong.

 

Crazy like a fox... a fox without a viable #1 goalie.

 

The Elliott thing... I mean he's got 4 months here, but we saw how long it took Giroux and Ghost and Patrick and we don't know how Elliott's core muscle problem compares.  Hopefully it's not the hip/ab thing they had, but I just can't imagine any lingering mobility problems they all had being any easier for a goalie... in fact I assume it would just be much much worse.

 

If we want to get scared, let's talk about Simmonds having a groin pull and a pelvic tear... gotta love the CORE!

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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Time will tell, of course, but I think we do actually.   The problem is that it takes a few years between draft and appearance on the NHL roster and then likely another year to get acclimated.    There are some good kids coming.  There will be some swings and misses there, too, but they're coming.

Rux:

 

I hope you are right.  The last few years look good but we need some scoring pizzazz.  I think one or two sharpshooters would make a big difference.  

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1 minute ago, vis said:

 

Stone is a RW which would only add to the logjam at that position.  Unless you could deal Simmonds (possibly to Ott) or Voracek.  Hoffman is interesting because he's an LW.  

 

 

Yeah... I was worried about the RW thing.  Trade Jake or Simmer and get them both!

 

1 minute ago, vis said:

Agree.  I would not be in favor of bringing him back.  But if they miss on Kane and no other LW help is available via trade, I wonder if they consider it.

 

 

I just don't see it.  I don't think he's the kind of player they want.  

 

1 minute ago, vis said:

Good points.  Alternatively, they may trade him or simply keep him in the AHL for another year on the basis that he needs to recover from last season.  

 

 

Trading him before they know what he's worth wouldn't be wise... but that just may be my high opinion of him talking.  You don't want to get "Bob'd" with a 6'7" D man.

 

Keeping him in the AHL another year is really only a viable option if he's actually still recovering, which I suppose is possible.  My problem is that I believe the guy can only really show how good it is at what he's good at at the NHL level.  BUT he is only going to be 23 which is the age you start to see college guys coming into the AHL, so it's not absurd.  It just kinda sucks for him.

 

1 minute ago, vis said:

I agree.  But, they better have a good plan for signing the young kids as they come up for new deals.  Going after him hard seems so far out of character for Hextall.  Unless he can move some other expensive pieces (Voracek).  Would you sign Tavares for $11m and eat $1.5-2.0m of Jake's salary?

 

I just don't think you need to worry about that.  Honestly, they have a projected cap space of over $17million next year (and that's if the cap remains close to where it is-it's expected to go up a bit) and the only need to resign Hagg, Lyon, Stolarz, Morin and Martel- and all of them won't even be Flyers and of whom, I'd expect only Hagg to get even a moderate raise.  So let's assume $13 million in cap space next year.

 

EVEN if they blow $11million (wow that's a lot, probably too much) of that cap space on Tavares, the following year, they're literally looking at another $20 million in cap space freeing up.  With that room, they'll need bridge deals for Provo, TK, Sanheim, Laughton, Vecchione, Abe Kubel, and of course Simmonds and Raffl.  They won't need all of Laughton, Vecchione, Abe Kubel, Simmonds and Raffl. They'll likely need like two or three of them if nothing else changes.  If we really think Provo, Sanheim and TK will all be worth 6 million each in two years time, I think we'll be discussing it at a parade in June with Beers in our hands.  

 

The year after that we need to resign Patrick, but OH, hello $11 million in cap space from the likes of Weise, MacDonald and Gudas.

 

Hart and Sandstrom and whatever else happens with the goalies still has to be sorted out, but I never said it was flawless, I just said it was far from daunting.  It's totally doable.

 

That said, to answer you directly... I'm not a fan of $10million plus on any one player.  I really really really hate it.  A LOT.  I think it's idiotic.  There are only 4 such players in the league and three of them missed the playoffs this year and the 4th got swept in the first round.  

 

If someone wants to pay him $10million plus, I think you let them go ahead and screw themselves over.

 

If however, he would come to Philly for $8.5-9.5 million... I'd think long and hard before most likely pulling that trigger.  

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1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

Rux:

 

I hope you are right.  The last few years look good but we need some scoring pizzazz.  I think one or two sharpshooters would make a big difference.  

 

Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen in the immediate future unless Hextall is taken over by a pod person, but I really would like to see them go out and get a scoring winger.  They don't grow on trees, so a trade would be costly and there are only so many options on UFA.  People talk E. Kane.  I prefer E Coli, but he's the type of skill set we'd be talking about.

 

I think (repeat "think") an improved bottom six and a scoring winger we're in business.   Then you add a Frost and Ratcliffe and Hart and we might have some fun.   It's Philly though.   

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3 hours ago, vis said:

Good points.  Alternatively, they may trade him or simply keep him in the AHL for another year on the basis that he needs to recover from last season.  

 

That's super risky since he's not waiver exempt. Do you think 30 teams will pass on a 6'7 guy who's a pretty good skater, even if he's only played 3 NHL games and has been hurt, for free?

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No way Morin is sent down.

 

He will be a Flyer next year.

 

He will not slip through waivers.

 

You'd be a fool to try.

 

Besides he is in my starting lineup on opening day.

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On 5/4/2018 at 2:04 PM, King Knut said:

Trading him before they know what he's worth wouldn't be wise... but that just may be my high opinion of him talking.  You don't want to get "Bob'd" with a 6'7" D man.

If they were to trade him, it would have to be for a good offensive prospect or young player.  I am not saying to trade him for the sake of it. 

 

On 5/4/2018 at 2:04 PM, King Knut said:

Keeping him in the AHL another year is really only a viable option if he's actually still recovering, which I suppose is possible.  My problem is that I believe the guy can only really show how good it is at what he's good at at the NHL level.  BUT he is only going to be 23 which is the age you start to see college guys coming into the AHL, so it's not absurd.  It just kinda sucks for him.

That's the only reason I'd consider keeping him in the AHL.  He lost a year in development and maybe even took a step back.  I think it would take him a while to get re-acclimated to AHL games, let along the NHL game.  It does suck for him.

 

On 5/4/2018 at 2:04 PM, King Knut said:

I just don't think you need to worry about that.

I haven't done any research on the long term cap implications.  But, I do think they have the flexibility to do it given the younger players on the rise and the rest of your post seems to indicate that as well.  When is the CBA up?  I guess we could probably use a cap compliance out on Voracek after the next lock-out.

 

On 5/4/2018 at 2:04 PM, King Knut said:

EVEN if they blow $11million (wow that's a lot, probably too much) of that cap space on Tavares.

I really have no idea what the market will be for Tavares.  When is the last time a FA of his ilk became available in the open market?  Demand will probably be pretty high for him from a few teams and the Isles, I'm sure, will match just about anything.  Plus, it's hard to compare him to McDavid and Eichel contract-wise because they are younger and signed long-term deals, trading salary for term.  Kane and Toews signed their deals four years ago.  Ovechkin signed 10 years ago.  Maybe Kopitar is a reasonable comp since he signed more than two years ago.  He got a monster deal plus term.  And he carries at $10m cap hit, but never hit the open market.  I think it's a very tough call.  Tavares missed out on a great bridge deal.  He may try to make up for it now.  I'm not sure if I'd be more leery about the term or the $$ at that rate.

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On 5/4/2018 at 4:52 PM, AJgoal said:

That's super risky since he's not waiver exempt. Do you think 30 teams will pass on a 6'7 guy who's a pretty good skater, even if he's only played 3 NHL games and has been hurt, for free?

If you start him in the AHL you have to plan to leave him there for the whole year to avoid the issue.  I'd hate to do that, but, as mentioned above, may not be terrible if you think he still needs recovery and adjustment time.  Hard enough to go from the AHL to the NHL, let alone from a year not playing a game to the NHL.  Believe me.  I want to see him in the NHL.  But I could see a scenario whereby he spends the year in the AHL recovering and building his game back up.

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On 5/4/2018 at 2:04 PM, King Knut said:

 

Keeping him in the AHL another year is really only a viable option if he's actually still recovering, which I suppose is possible. 

 

No it really isn't he will have to pass through waivers to get sent down.

 

He will be a Flyer. No way Ron is that dumb to give him up like that. He will be fine by next season and I think will earn a spot even if it is on the bottom pair.

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59 minutes ago, vis said:

That's the only reason I'd consider keeping him in the AHL.  He lost a year in development and maybe even took a step back.  I think it would take him a while to get re-acclimated to AHL games, let along the NHL game.  It does suck for him.

 

Not going to happen he will have to pass through waivers to be sent down for that.

 

Ron is some dumb but he ain't plum dumb.

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9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not going to happen he will have to pass through waivers to be sent down for that.

 

Ron is some dumb but he ain't plum dumb.

Ok.  I must be totally messed up in remembering the waiver rules.  I thought waivers didn’t start until a week or two before the season.  Meaning, he could spend some time in camp but the Flyers could send him to th AHL without waivers so long as they do it before the waiver period starts.  Now, query whether or would be good to deny Morin a full camp and preseason, but I thought that was how things worked.  

 

Also, aren’t re-entry waivers no longer a thing?  I feel like that changed with the most recent CBA.  So, if he starts in the AHL, waivers wouldn’t be an issue on recall.  Of course, he’d have to stay up since he would be subject to waivers if they sent him back down.  Assuming I’m right about no waivers on recall, then theye wouldn’t have to leave him in the AHL all year, contrary to what I suggested above.  

 

If waivers work this way, then a question seems to be whether Morin gets a full NHL camp or not.  

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6 hours ago, vis said:

Ok.  I must be totally messed up in remembering the waiver rules.  I thought waivers didn’t start until a week or two before the season.  

 

No. A player has to be waived once their exemption is over, regardless of when they decide to assign him to the minors. Alt, Brennan, and a few others were waived before the end of camp last season, for example.

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6 hours ago, vis said:

 

Also, aren’t re-entry waivers no longer a thing?

 

Yes they don't exist anymore but after a player passes through waivers and he remains up he has to go through waivers again every 30 days or 10 games played.

 

It is why Morin will be a Flyer.........and i think the defense can use his help and he can help on the PK Gordon was raving about his PK ability the other day.

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8 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

No. A player has to be waived once their exemption is over, regardless of when they decide to assign him to the minors. Alt, Brennan, and a few others were waived before the end of camp last season, for example.

Ok.  So there's absolutely no scenario by which Morin wouldn't have to clear waivers into to start with the Phantoms?  If so, then Hextall's hands truly are tied.  I thought there was a time in training camp where the Flyers moved guys to the Phantoms en masse on a single day.  Maybe all the guys they moved were waiver exempt or didn't have NHL contracts.  Thinking about it a bit more, it would be a big loophole otherwise.

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1 hour ago, vis said:

Ok.  So there's absolutely no scenario by which Morin wouldn't have to clear waivers into to start with the Phantoms?  If so, then Hextall's hands truly are tied.  I thought there was a time in training camp where the Flyers moved guys to the Phantoms en masse on a single day.  Maybe all the guys they moved were waiver exempt or didn't have NHL contracts.  Thinking about it a bit more, it would be a big loophole otherwise.

 

You try to do it when the other teams around the leagues rosters are pretty much set because if you claim a guy he has to be on your roster you can't assign him to the AHL once claimed.

 

If you remember a few years back the Flyers try this with a guy they brought in for a try out and they sign Chris Porter and Ron was trying to sneak him through and the Wild claimed him.

 

Some fringe guys they try that with they did it with Weal IIRC too and got away with it.

 

No way Morin will sneak through.

 

Honestly i'm not worried about him I think he will prove him self next camp preseason.

 

The guys I worry about are Gudas and Mcdud and even though at times they both have played ok I can't wait till they are no longer on the team.

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