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Flyers 2018-19 Offseason moves


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10 hours ago, ruxpin said:

There are rumors out of Dallas that Tyler Seguin is being put up for Tribute.

 

There's no way. How could this even be a thing? Unless there's something ugly going on behind the scenes, I just don't see how this could even be considered. He was traded for suspiciously vague reasons before. I wonder if there's something we simply don't know about the guy. Aside from that type of possibility, it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

That said, the foolishness of trade rumours has never stopped us before!

 

Honestly, this just can't happen. The only players we have that compare to the impact of a Seguin are Giroux and Provo. I can't see either of those two being moved, regardless of how great Seguin is. Giroux remains the soul of the team -- and he's coming off a 100 pt season -- and Provo is looking to be the best dman we've had in ages.

 

Would Ghost be enough? Possibly in a package. Would it be worth it? I'd really hate to lose him... but for Seguin? Hell I dunno. That is one hell of a return, and we do have other likely better than average dmen coming in soonish. As difficult as it sounds, I might actually consider it...

 

Again, this is all assuming there isn't some other underlying reason why this clearly elite level franchise potential player has been traded twice in his still fairly young NHL career.

 

I guess the other possibility is Voracek and a package. I'd be calling Voracek and telling him to hop on the first plane to Texas if that were somehow possible. 

 

#GetHexyOnTheLine

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15 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

There's no way. How could this even be a thing? Unless there's something ugly going on behind the scenes, I just don't see how this could even be considered. He was traded for suspiciously vague reasons before. I wonder if there's something we simply don't know about the guy. Aside from that type of possibility, it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

That said, the foolishness of trade rumours has never stopped us before!

 

Honestly, this just can't happen. The only players we have that compare to the impact of a Seguin are Giroux and Provo. I can't see either of those two being moved, regardless of how great Seguin is. Giroux remains the soul of the team -- and he's coming off a 100 pt season -- and Provo is looking to be the best dman we've had in ages.

 

Would Ghost be enough? Possibly in a package. Would it be worth it? I'd really hate to lose him... but for Seguin? Hell I dunno. That is one hell of a return, and we do have other likely better than average dmen coming in soonish. As difficult as it sounds, I might actually consider it...

 

Again, this is all assuming there isn't some other underlying reason why this clearly elite level franchise potential player has been traded twice in his still fairly young NHL career.

 

I guess the other possibility is Voracek and a package. I'd be calling Voracek and telling him to hop on the first plane to Texas if that were somehow possible. 

 

#GetHexyOnTheLine

 

The bolded.  I agree.   The rumor is based on the idea that they have a developing Tavares situation and Jim Nill might act aggressively to go get a package for him.   I don't think there's a problem with Seguin.  He's been a pretty good team player and actually did adapt well and tried to do what Hitchcock was asking.   But, I have a very hard time with the Tavares comparison.  I get Tavares.  The Isles haven't appeared to be trying and they have a horrible arena situation for at least the next 3 years.  Dallas doesn't have an arena problem, and he obviously has highly-skilled linemates, Klingborg on defense with other help coming, and Bishop in goal (we can debate whether that's a good thing, but clearly they're trying).  They have to figure he's going to want Jamie Benn money, though, and maybe there are cap concerns (likely).  

 

So, one obvious concern for the Flyers will be the Jamie Benn money.  He's a $9.5M cap hit (his salary next season is $13M!!!).   I agree with you that Giroux is not a good idea to be involved.  I had ruled out Voracek with the idea that if they're going to pay Voracek, they might as well just pay Seguin.  But even that would be a $1.25M lower cap hit and $3.75M less in salary.  So maybe he's not a horrible idea.  Also, he'd come off the books a little sooner than Seguin with a brand new contract.   I would imagine 6 or 7 years, so that would take Seguin to 2025 or 2026 at the earliest whereas Voracek comes off in 2024.   The problem for me on the Dallas side is they're losing their 1C in the process and replacing with a hefty RW salary.   Maybe they move Radulov and bring in Tavares themselves?

 

I think Simmonds might actually be suitable bait, but we can substitute Voracek into this equation.

 

#14 + Simmonds + (Sanheim/Morin/Myers).   It's not ideal to me because I kind of want to horde the defensemen, but it does move one of the defensemen and might make us more capable of protecting enough defensemen in the expansion draft.   The downside is a cap issue.  We have some money to play with and it moves out Simmonds $5M, but it still gives us roughly $27M in cap to Giroux, Voracek, and Seguin and we haven't paid Provorov, Patrick or Konecny yet.  Among others.     You may have to substitute Voracek there.  Plus, on the Dallas side, they lost their 1C and moving Radulov for Simmonds on the first line doesn't make sense to me.  You could argue that Voracek makes more sense.

 

The other idea, pretending that Dallas might go get Tavares in this to replace the 1C, is to package #14, #19, Konecny and one of those kids.  I don't know whether Ghost would be redundant with Klingberg already there, but #14 + Konecny + Ghost might do it.   Again, though, I'm concerned with the cap implications.

 

Like you said, this is out there, but like you also said, rumors is what we do and it kills some time.

 

So, just to further kill time, let's pretend it's #14 + Voracek + Sanheim (I really do hate seeing him involved!).  I don't know how I plot out the lines.  Slotting Seguin in at 1C bumps Coots back to 3C.  At that point, you're trading Voracek's production + Coots' reduction of production for Seguin's.  Not to mention losing Sanheim.    So maybe I slot Seguin at RW.

 

That gives me (I'm doing this with Simmonds, but it's possible he's moved):

Giroux -  Coots -- Seguin

Lindblom - Patrick - Konecny 

Raffl? (Twarynski?) -- Vecchione -- Simmonds

Whatever we put on the fourth line.  In this scenario, I consider buying out Lehtera.

 

If we put Seguin at center:

Giroux -- Seguin -- Konecny

Lindblom - Patrick -- Simmonds/Raffl

Twarynski -- Couturier -- Simmonds/Raffl

Whatever we put on the fourth line.  I still buyout Lehtera.

 

The following year you're sliding in Frost and Ratcliffe.  Ratcliffe is LW and Frost is a center so we'd have to figure out what we're doing with him.  I don't know that you want to move him to wing--he's a left-handed shot, so I don't know about RW.

 

I'm a big Seguin fan, so I'm playing with this, but it does block up some things.  Ultimately, I was against Tavares because of cap implications and didn't think it was necessary.  The more I'm doing this, the more I'm thinking the same with Seguin.  But, like I said, it kills time.  🤨

 

 

 

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I guess I just don't understand why they move Seguin and replace him with Tavares. Tavares is older and, I would argue, not better than Seguin. They're about even in terms of goals and point production.

 

So that, right off the bat, makes no sense to me. 

 

If he's a dink, then it makes sense. Which means I don't think the Flyers should go after him.

 

If Hexy wants to make a splash, go after Tavares. He costs you nothing but money and term. 

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12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Okay, I'm perfectly sober, so I'll acknowledge right off the top that this is well past the "Welcome to Nutsville" sign.

 

There are rumors out of Dallas that Tyler Seguin is being put up for Tribute.   I think we'd have to slide him back to RW or he'd become the best 3C in the league (or Coots slides back to 3C).   He's only 26 but the rub is that he only has one year left on his current contract.   

 

For the sake of full disclosure, the guy is one of my favorite players in the league.

 

What would it take realistically and is it something that wouldn't gut the team?

 

#14, Simmonds, and Hagg (or Sanheim, Morin, or Myers)?   Does that do it?

#14, #19, Konecny?     Does this need a defenseman not named Ghost or Provorov added?  (Provorov and probably Ghost end the conversation for me).

 

I think you'd want permission to talk to him and work out a deal first, since he is only one year from UFA. Positionally, I don't have an issue if you have Couturier, Seguin, and Patrick all playing 15+ minutes per night and your fourth line is below 10. 

 

Value-wise? I have a tough time parting with #14, but Seguin is the kind of guy worth that value. I'd think Dallas would want a forward of some sort back. I don't know that they'd want Simmonds, but maybe this is a place where a three-way trade with a team like Carolina, Toronto, or Calgary could make sense.

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9 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

maybe this is a place where a three-way trade with a team like Carolina, Toronto, or Calgary could make sense.

 

I hadn't even considered the 3-way scenario (well, in my 20s, but that's something else entirely).  That opens up some possibilities, for sure.

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I can't see Simmer and the #14 being enough for this guy....it will cost more.

 

Much as i like the guy i would stay the course.

 

Now if you want to include Jake in it....maybe instead of Simmer it would have more umph....but maybe still not enough.

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39 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I can't see Simmer and the #14 being enough for this guy....it will cost more.

 

Much as i like the guy i would stay the course.

 

Now if you want to include Jake in it....maybe instead of Simmer it would have more umph....but maybe still not enough.

I agree. Just the pick and Simmonds isn't enough. That's why I keep sticking a defenseman in it.  But I think this needs to involve Voracek. Or the third team idea. 

 

Mostly it's just nonsense, but it's keeping me entertained. 

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2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I agree. Just the pick and Simmonds isn't enough. That's why I keep sticking a defenseman in it.  But I think this needs to involve Voracek. Or the third team idea. 

 

Mostly it's just nonsense, but it's keeping me entertained. 

 

I mean, I get the Voracek idea... but wouldn't that be a red flag? Why would a team be willing to move Seguin for Voracek? Why not just resign the better player in Seguin, who won't cost much more than Jake? 

 

It'd be like trading Giroux for Pacioretty or something like that. 

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10 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I mean, I get the Voracek idea... but wouldn't that be a red flag? Why would a team be willing to move Seguin for Voracek? Why not just resign the better player in Seguin, who won't cost much more than Jake? 

 

It'd be like trading Giroux for Pacioretty or something like that. 

I don't think it was this thread. I think i posted this elsewhere. 

 

First, I agree, and it's the reason I didn't initially include Voracek. But, pretending that Seguin matches Benn's deal, Voracek's cap hit is $1.25M less. Not a big deal, but it could make a difference. Second, if Seguin does match Benn's contract in structure, Voracek's actual salary in the first year would be nearly $4M less.  And lastly, Voracek's would end before Seguin's new deal (no, I don't know why that's an issue, but just throwing that out there). 

 

Plus, if Nill is operating under the belief that Seguin does not want to stay (the only reason any of this would even be considered), then it's get a high end player and pick (maybe plus) before he's in a potential Tavares situation and is losing him for nothing. 

 

It's "out there" to begin with followed by speculation and lots of what ifs, but those would be the set of circumstances that explains even the conversation on Dallas' side.  That doesn't even begin to cover the huge what ifs on Philly's side. 

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

If Hexy wants to make a splash, go after Tavares. He costs you nothing but money and term. 

I'm sorry, i missed this post the first time. I just happened to see it while scrolling back. 

 

Honestly, I take Seguin over Tavares all day every day. Which, to your point, why would Dallas make that switch? 

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1 hour ago, brelic said:

Why would a team be willing to move Seguin for Voracek?

 

To shake up the team.

 

Besides how do we know that Seguin doesn't want Patrick Kane money??

 

Jake is locked in at a lower rate.

 

Make a trade and pick up Jake who is locked in at 8.25 mill for the next 6 isn't a bad shake up.

 

Maybe they are ready to clear room for Denis Gurianov???

 

Maybe they want more ice time for Ritchie??

 

 

They would have a strong right side still.

 

Voracek

Radulov

Ritchie

Gurianov

 

Not saying what it could be but only they know.

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3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I'm sorry, i missed this post the first time. I just happened to see it while scrolling back. 

 

Honestly, I take Seguin over Tavares all day every day. Which, to your point, why would Dallas make that switch? 

 

Exactly. All things being equal, I’d take Seguin. The question is do I still want Seguin if he costs a 1st, a high end roster player (Simmer probably ain’t gonna cut it) and/or a prospect. Which is where Jake makes sense from our end, and you’ve made some good points for their end (cheaper, ends earlier, and maybe Seguin wants out or is a problem).

 

I’d still try Tavares first, then move on to Seguin. Of course, this is assuming Hexy wants anything to do with either of them!

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37 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

If Konecny is being moved in a proposed deal for Seguin with 14, 19 and one of Myers, Morin, Sanheim, then I expect a hell of a lot more than just Seguin coming back. There had better be Honka and Nichushkin in said deal as well. 

 

If it's both picks plus Konecny, I don't think you need the defenseman.  I think it's defenseman or 2nd pick plus the other pick and Konecny for a top 10 player in the game.  If it's both picks plus Konecny plus the defenseman, yeah, something else has to come back.

 

Not that any of this is even happening anyway.

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“It’s on our list,” Hextall said of the search for a right-handed defenseman. “We’ve certainly looked at it. But do you want a left-shot defenseman who is better than the right shot that you can acquire? We’re not going to take a guy that’s two layers down from this guy just because he’s a right shot. If we can get a guy who’s maybe close? Yeah, that’s what we’ll look at.”

 

 

It is good to see him acknowledge this....so he is looking into improvement on the backend...and not just going to give a guy like Myers the job next year....good to see everything is always better when you earn it.

 

However with Hak's propensity to play vets over kids i hate to see it block a kid too...

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I think I would go after Paul first.

 

Won't cost nothing to pick up the phone to talk first gauge what he wants.

 

Depends on his answer is if/when pursue another option.

 

Then would I go Bozak next? Or just talk RNH trade?

 

I know what ISN'T in the plans and that is bringing Filppula back no way I would go rookie 1st.

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I think the Flyers will move up and take D Noah Dobson Bathurst.    Right shot defenseman.  They watched him a lot this year while watching his teammate Rubtsov.   Sean Couturier owns part of Bathurst and Couturier's Father is GM.   

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

@ruxpin

 

So which would be better try and sign Paul Stastny to a 3 year deal....

 

 

...or try and trade for RNH????

 

I have to think aboot that a minute.... 

 

Yikes.   If it were just between Stastny and RNH, I guess I'd have to say Stastny (though, honestly, I have never been a fan.  He showed me something different down the stretch, though, so maybe).   I'm really tempted to say RNH, though, because it involves moving up (at least in the scenario we were talking about).

 

There was an article on Philly.com about signing Stastny.   So long as he'll go for a 2-3 year deal (2, in particular), we actually have the cap room to outbid a lot of teams.   If the term gets longer than that, it gets in the way of signing some of our kids.

 

Gun to my head:   go ahead with Stastny.

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57 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yikes.   If it were just between Stastny and RNH, I guess I'd have to say Stastny (though, honestly, I have never been a fan.  He showed me something different down the stretch, though, so maybe).   I'm really tempted to say RNH, though, because it involves moving up (at least in the scenario we were talking about).

 

There was an article on Philly.com about signing Stastny.   So long as he'll go for a 2-3 year deal (2, in particular), we actually have the cap room to outbid a lot of teams.   If the term gets longer than that, it gets in the way of signing some of our kids.

 

Gun to my head:   go ahead with Stastny.

 

The one thing at his age he might want to stay in Winny.

 

Never know.

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2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The one thing at his age he might want to stay in Winny.

 

Never know.

Yeah, if they want him, I think that's where he stays. Odd he isn't signed yet if that's the case, though. 

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