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Flyers 2018-19 Offseason moves


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27 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

no way in hell I am giving up Simmer + Sanheim for RNH.    A young blue chip defensive prospect and Simmer who has scored the same amount of goals on a broken body this year as RNH?   Hextall would be nuts to do that deal...

 

RNH is a fine player but has hit 24 goals 2 times in his career.  Giving up a potential top 2-3 dman and Simmer for him is ridiculous.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean Sanheim AND Simmonds. Just Sanheim, as an example. I'm guessing he's the one they would be interested in and really the only young guy I can see Hextall willing to deal. Morin is injured, and Myers is similar to Sanheim but right-handed. 

 

But if the defenseman is Gudas, that alone doesn't get you RNH, so it would have to be a package. That could include Simmonds if Hextall can get RNH+ from the Oil. 

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1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Sorry, I didn't mean Sanheim AND Simmonds. Just Sanheim, as an example. I'm guessing he's the one they would be interested in and really the only young guy I can see Hextall willing to deal. Morin is injured, and Myers is similar to Sanheim but right-handed. 

 

But if the defenseman is Gudas, that alone doesn't get you RNH, so it would have to be a package. That could include Simmonds if Hextall can get RNH+ from the Oil. 

 

LOL.... gotcha.

 

I would hate to see Simmer go but to get a young player that still has upside might make me think about it.  I am fine parting with Gudas and on the back of a napking the numbers seem to work.

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6 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

LOL.... gotcha.

 

I would hate to see Simmer go but to get a young player that still has upside might make me think about it.  I am fine parting with Gudas and on the back of a napking the numbers seem to work.

 

Same for me. I don't want to see Simmer go - he's one of my favourite Flyers ever. But it might be inevitable, and if you can get a former #1 overall player, seems like a smart move. Maybe RNH blossoms like Hall once leaving hockey purgatory lol.

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9 hours ago, brelic said:

More fuel for the fire. 

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/GARTHS-CORNER/Oil-Leak/6/94335

 

Oilers now down two top 4 defensemen since announcing Sekera is out 6-7 months with a torn achilles tendon.

 

We have the pieces to make it work - but would Hextall be willing to pay the price to get someone like RNH? Does Simmonds and, say, Gudas get it done? Or would Hextall have to part with a younger D - Sanheim is the only one that would make any sense. They're not trading Provorov, Ghost, or even MacDonald at this point, even though he might be the best fit for what the Oilers are looking for. 

 

If getting RNH means a defense that looks like this.. 

 

Provorov/Ghost

MacDonald/Gudas

Hagg/Myers

+The new guy we got... forget his name. 

+Morin when he's healthy

 

I'd have to think Simmonds and Gudas would be enough to get RNH. If the Flyers are shipping Simmonds and Sanheim to Edmonton, then I'd have to think Larsson or Nurse would be included in the package coming the other way (personally, I'd have no problems with Larsson + RNH for Simmonds + Sanheim, but I might be in the minority).

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10 hours ago, brelic said:

More fuel for the fire. 

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/GARTHS-CORNER/Oil-Leak/6/94335

 

Oilers now down two top 4 defensemen since announcing Sekera is out 6-7 months with a torn achilles tendon.

 

We have the pieces to make it work - but would Hextall be willing to pay the price to get someone like RNH? Does Simmonds and, say, Gudas get it done? Or would Hextall have to part with a younger D - Sanheim is the only one that would make any sense. They're not trading Provorov, Ghost, or even MacDonald at this point, even though he might be the best fit for what the Oilers are looking for. 

 

If getting RNH means a defense that looks like this.. 

 

Provorov/Ghost

MacDonald/Gudas

Hagg/Myers

+The new guy we got... forget his name. 

+Morin when he's healthy

I'm not high enough on RNH that that makes sense to me.  That's way too much.  

 

Trade MacDonald straight up for RNH. Throw in Weal or a draft pick or something. 

 

The money works for the Oilers and they have one less year of term. They get a top 4 dman who can play top pair (not well) for periods of time for s guy who struggles to stay in the top 6.

 

It's enough. 

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10 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Sorry, I didn't mean Sanheim AND Simmonds. Just Sanheim, as an example. I'm guessing he's the one they would be interested in and really the only young guy I can see Hextall willing to deal. Morin is injured, and Myers is similar to Sanheim but right-handed. 

 

But if the defenseman is Gudas, that alone doesn't get you RNH, so it would have to be a package. That could include Simmonds if Hextall can get RNH+ from the Oil. 

I don't involve Sanheim at all for RNH. I think that's a mistake. 

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I don't involve Sanheim at all for RNH. I think that's a mistake. 

 

Yeah maybe you’re right. It’s hard to predict really. Sanheim really could go either way. He could be a Bouwmeester type or a Coburn type. He’s not far advanced enough that we can tell how he’ll turn out at the NHL level.

 

So really the question is whether that’s a risk worth taking based on our needs, potential replacements in the farm, confidence level in assessing Sanheim, and whether the move is in the right direction for the short term and long term visions. 

 

I go back and forth on Sanheim. I would hate to lose him before knowing what we really have, but on the other hand RNH could give us exactly what we need at 3C to really grow as a team while still having a great in-house defense corps. Ultimately what we’d be saying is that we believe we have someone in the farm that has the same potential - Myers in this case. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Yeah maybe you’re right. It’s hard to predict really. Sanheim really could go either way. He could be a Bouwmeester type or a Coburn type. He’s not far advanced enough that we can tell how he’ll turn out at the NHL level.

 

So really the question is whether that’s a risk worth taking based on our needs, potential replacements in the farm, confidence level in assessing Sanheim, and whether the move is in the right direction for the short term and long term visions. 

 

I go back and forth on Sanheim. I would hate to lose him before knowing what we really have, but on the other hand RNH could give us exactly what we need at 3C to really grow as a team while still having a great in-house defense corps. Ultimately what we’d be saying is that we believe we have someone in the farm that has the same potential - Myers in this case. 

 

 

I get it. I have players I go back and forth on. Some justifiably, some probably not. 

 

For me, in the case of Sanheim, I'm completely bullish

 

The other thing for me is RNH would be attractive because he can swing out to wing. I wouldn't want a center (especially him, who I'm not a fan of) blocking Frost.   And Sanheim, RNH, or Frost we still have a clown show in goal. 

 

I would seriously consider MacDonald in a deal for RNH. And not because I'm in a hurry to trade MacDonald. I'm not in that camp. It would put a gaping veteran hole in our defense. But the money and term works. I don't think it's likely, though. 

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I'm so at a loss as to trade values, particularly in light of the Skinner trade.  I thought he would have garnered a higher return.  Maybe trading him during the slow summer months contributed to the seemingly underwhelming return.

 

What do people think Simmonds or RNH would return given the Skinner deal?  Apologies if this has already been discussed.

 

I agree with the above that Sanheim is too much to give for RNH, but what else would folks be willing to part with that EDM would want?  I really don't see EDM wanting MacDonald or Gudas when there are a few UFA d-men available that wouldn't require them to give up a player.  Would a Simmonds/Gudas package be more valuable than RNH/UFA d-man?  I know they need help on RW, but trading RNH would weaken LW/C.  And they need speed to play with McDavid.  Not sure Simmonds fits that bill.  (By the way, I think the Flyers would need a pick/prospect back if they were to serve up Simmonds/Gudas.)

 

As for RNH, I've run hot and cold over the years on him.  I watched a fair amount of EDM games a few years ago when he was putting up 50+ points on bad teams, but haven't watched them as much.  He had 48 points (24G) in 62 games last year, which is pretty decent.  At one point his contract was cause for pause,  but not sure that's the case anymore with only 3 years remaining.   

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4 minutes ago, vis said:

I thought he would have garnered a higher return.

 

Not really...a small winger who (who has had a few concussions) AND is a UFA after this year....it's a risky move...hence the return...regardless of what he has accomplished...

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7 minutes ago, vis said:

As for RNH, I've run hot and cold over the years on him.

 

Sorry i didn't answer this on my original response...i say too this is a hard one to answer...i am not so high on him...and 6 mill for 3 more years is kind of steep for the 3rd line center role...i said somewhere here i wasn't thrilled to pay 7+ mill for the 3rd line RW and no happier to pay 6 mill for the 3rd line center...so i'm torn too...i know that doesn't help any...i think i would rather keep Simmer for something later if possible.

 

However i would be ok with trading the Oilers Gudas or Mcdud if they are interested...

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6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not really...a small winger who (who has had a few concussions) AND is a UFA after this year....it's a risky move...hence the return...regardless of what he has accomplished...

Like I said, I really have no idea what value is anymore.  Myself, and I think others, figured he'd return at least one NHL roster player.  I feel like there has been a good deal of chatter that the Canes didn't get a great return.  Again, maybe I am wrong on that.

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11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

I get it. I have players I go back and forth on. Some justifiably, some probably not. 

 

For me, in the case of Sanheim, I'm completely bullish

 

I am undecided on Sanheim only because of what I saw early in Provorov and Ghost. Even with their flaws, you could see the areas where they shined. With Sanheim, he's not great defensively OR offensively yet. He's still finding his way, which is completely normal.

 

So my question to you would be, what do you mean by bullish? Top pairing bullish? Top four? And in either case, what type of defenseman? I really do feel he could be as good as a Bouwmeester type or as a decent, if underwhelming, top four guy like Coburn. And if it's closer to Coburn, is that really cause for absolutely not wanting to trade him if there's a trade that can upgrade a position of current weakness (3C)?

 

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

The other thing for me is RNH would be attractive because he can swing out to wing. I wouldn't want a center (especially him, who I'm not a fan of) blocking Frost.   And Sanheim, RNH, or Frost we still have a clown show in goal. 

 

I get not wanting to block Frost. But right now, Frost has proven absolutely nothing, whereas RNH has proven he is a bonafide NHLer who is still young and was #1 overall. Worst case scenario is that Frost blows the barn doors off and steals that 3C spot in a few years, in which case we only have to worry about one more year of RNH and either find a place for him, trade him, or let him go. 

 

11 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

I would seriously consider MacDonald in a deal for RNH. And not because I'm in a hurry to trade MacDonald. I'm not in that camp. It would put a gaping veteran hole in our defense. But the money and term works. I don't think it's likely, though. 

 

I agree - MacDonald might be more what Edmonton really needs. But I think the Flyers would be reluctant to trade him at this point. 

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3 minutes ago, vis said:

I feel like there has been a good deal of chatter that the Canes didn't get a great return.

 

No this is true they didn't get a good return...they should have held on to him i think as a rental at the dead line this year and i think they could have got more...however the new owner had given instruction to do something now for whatever reason...i don't think he knows hockey real well...oh well...so they got fleeced.

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5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

.i said somewhere here i wasn't thrilled to pay 7+ mill for the 3rd line RW

I missed it elsewhere, but a who are you referring to above?  Simmonds?

 

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

i think i would rather keep Simmer for something later if possible.

But what something else?  Do you think Simmonds garners a higher return than Skinner?  At least Simmonds doesn't have an NTC and presumably they would be trading him at the deadline which would give them more leverage.

 

Also, if the Flyers are in the PO hunt and Simmonds is playing well, do you think the Flyers will trade him?  That would be a terrible message and I think inconsistent with how Hextall has operated when the team is in PO contention.

 

I just have a feeling that if Simmonds starts the season with the Flyers and they are having a decent year and are in the PO hunt, Simmonds is going nowhere and will walk after the year.  This is a tough situation for Hextall to navigate and I'm not sure there is a right (or wrong) approach.

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No this is true they didn't get a good return...they should have held on to him i think as a rental at the dead line this year and i think they could have got more...however the new owner had given instruction to do something now for whatever reason...i don't think he knows hockey real well...oh well...so they got fleeced.

Maybe they didn't want to pay him this year, knowing that he was likely to walk after the season.  Maybe they are tanking, too.

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3 minutes ago, vis said:

Like I said, I really have no idea what value is anymore.  Myself, and I think others, figured he'd return at least one NHL roster player.  I feel like there has been a good deal of chatter that the Canes didn't get a great return.  Again, maybe I am wrong on that.

I agree with your assessment of it. I thought he'd get more, but OR is pretty on point with his reasons of maybe why not. 

 

The O'Reilly trade confused me a bit too. Buffalo didn't do horribly, but I thought they could have done better.  So, I don't know.  I'm guessing that contract, amount and term is playing a much larger role than on ice accomplishments or potential. But it's really hard to gage returns. 

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1 minute ago, vis said:

I missed it elsewhere, but a who are you referring to above?  Simmonds?

 

But what something else?  Do you think Simmonds garners a higher return than Skinner?  At least Simmonds doesn't have an NTC and presumably they would be trading him at the deadline which would give them more leverage.

 

Actually he does. He submits a list of 12 teams where he would accept a trade.

 

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Just now, brelic said:

 

Actually he does. He submits a list of 12 teams where he would accept a trade.

 

Ah, did not realize that.  Doesn't seem too hard to work with, though.

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I agree with your assessment of it. I thought he'd get more, but OR is pretty on point with his reasons of maybe why not. 

 

The O'Reilly trade confused me a bit too. Buffalo didn't do horribly, but I thought they could have done better.  So, I don't know.  I'm guessing that contract, amount and term is playing a much larger role than on ice accomplishments or potential. But it's really hard to gage returns. 

Yeah, I hear you on both accounts.  Buffalo got a slew of players in the deal, so I guess they got some depth.  But is anyone going to make a meaningful impact?  I don't know.  I mean, Berglund and Sobotka aren't impressive, imo.  And Berglund's contract seems a bit excessive to me.  Tage Thompson is a little interesting.  Picks are nice, but that 2019 is likely to be a low first rounder.

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3 minutes ago, vis said:

But what something else?

 

 

That prospect coming back could have been a nice one instead of some scrub Cliff Pu.

 

5 minutes ago, vis said:

Also, if the Flyers are in the PO hunt and Simmonds is playing well, do you think the Flyers will trade him? 

 

That is hard to say really depends on what they have discussed in preliminary negotiations i think...maybe Ron is comfortable letting him test the waters know he has the $$$$$$$ to match a contract...and what he is getting offered coming back would he pull the trigger.

 

And what must be weighed is the repercussions it would have on the team going forward if they were in a playoff race headed towards the playoffs...a heart and soul guy like Simmer would be hard to get over.

 

And yes he could walk for nothing.

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5 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

So my question to you would be, what do you mean by bullish? Top pairing bullish? Top four? And in either case, what type of defenseman? I really do feel he could be as good as a Bouwmeester type or as a decent, if underwhelming, top four guy like Coburn. And if it's closer to Coburn, is that really cause for absolutely not wanting to trade him if there's a trade that can upgrade a position of current weakness (3C)?

 

Good question on bullish. 

I'd say top 4, but not top 2. That's provided ghost stays in the top 2.  I don't see him as a Coburn type. I guess I see him actually in the Provorov mold but not as high in any category. Decent offense but not outstanding. Defense that will come but more mobile and better breakout than a Therrien. The place I don't see say "Provorov lite" is penalty kill. Maybe some say, but in the near future I wouldn't put him out there on the PK. Maybe Bouwmeester isn't a horrible comparison. 

 

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

I get not wanting to block Frost. But right now, Frost has proven absolutely nothing, whereas RNH has proven he is a bonafide NHLer who is still young and was #1 overall. Worst case scenario is that Frost blows the barn doors off and steals that 3C spot in a few years, in which case we only have to worry about one more year of RNH and either find a place for him, trade him, or let him go. 

 

I think our difference here lies in our opinions of RNH. I'm not sold on him. I don't know if it's situation or if it's him. I don't know if given a fresh start if he gets better or he continues to be Adam Henrique.  But I don't know if I sign up for $6M/yr for 3 years to find out.  You're absolutely right that Frost hasn't done anything yet, but I'm completely sold.  Frost or not, though, I'm hesitant on RNH. 

 

I'd do the McDonald thing. I know @OccamsRazorlaughs at this, but I do think that does nasty stuff to our defense in the immediate near term.  And I'm not concerned about RNH blocking centers long term because he has played wing, so there's always that option. It would allow the Flyers to resist the urge to rush Frost, too (who is only kind of on the edge of size). 

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