Flyers 2018-19 Offseason moves

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, vis said:

Maybe they didn't want to pay him this year, knowing that he was likely to walk after the season.  Maybe they are tanking, too.

 

True the are pretty deep at LW. I think Zykov gets a long look this year on the 3rd or 4th line.

 

They have Aho and Teuvo (who can play RW too) to play along the LW on the 1st and 2nd line.

 

And Martinook, Di Giuseppe, Ferland and Zykov to compete for the last two LW spots so yeah it could have been just a cut your losses and move on type of move.

 

The Canes really really lack center depth and they need to address that before the season starts.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'd do the McDonald thing. I know @OccamsRazorlaughs at this, but I do think that does nasty stuff to our defense in the immediate near term

 

 

[brelic]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Good question on bullish. 

I'd say top 4, but not top 2. That's provided ghost stays in the top 2.  I don't see him as a Coburn type. I guess I see him actually in the Provorov mold but not as high in any category. Decent offense but not outstanding. Defense that will come but more mobile and better breakout than a Therrien. The place I don't see say "Provorov lite" is penalty kill. Maybe some say, but in the near future I wouldn't put him out there on the PK. Maybe Bouwmeester isn't a horrible comparison. 

 

That's about how I see his development too. A top 4 guy who can eat some minutes, play decent hockey at both ends, but may leave us wanting more for all the hype. Of course, that's just my assessment after half a season as a rookie NHL defenseman. 

 

And if that's his ceiling, that's super valuable. We need those players. I just feel that if the right move came along (and I'm not saying RNH is the *right* move), he's not an untouchable largely because we have Myers. It would be awesome to have both Sanheim and Myers, but again, if the right move came along, then maybe it's ok to trade Sanheim.

 

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

 

I think our difference here lies in our opinions of RNH. I'm not sold on him. I don't know if it's situation or if it's him. I don't know if given a fresh start if he gets better or he continues to be Adam Henrique.  But I don't know if I sign up for $6M/yr for 3 years to find out.  You're absolutely right that Frost hasn't done anything yet, but I'm completely sold.  Frost or not, though, I'm hesitant on RNH. 

 

I mean, RNH's 48 pts (24 goals) in 62 games would have put him 5th in team scoring. That's pretty good value. He's only 25. So even if he "only" maintains his current production level, he's a clear upgrade to our middle six. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'd do the McDonald thing. I know @OccamsRazorlaughs at this, but I do think that does nasty stuff to our defense in the immediate near term.  And I'm not concerned about RNH blocking centers long term because he has played wing, so there's always that option. It would allow the Flyers to resist the urge to rush Frost, too (who is only kind of on the edge of size). 

 

I agree. I think it would hurt our defense more than people want to admit. 

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, brelic said:

I think it would hurt our defense more than people want to admit. 

 

I'd be willing to risk to be rid of that contract.

[AJgoal]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImpoliteFreeAfricanaugurbuzzard-mobile.mp4

 

No, Sanheim doesn't jump out at you right now. But he very quietly does a lot of little things, more than he is often given credit for. The problem is that he had bad puck luck last season, and people remember the mistakes that end up in the back of the net. They don't remember the good plays that result in nothing happening. I think he's probably a top-tier 2nd pair guy based on what I see right now. There's no way I trade that for RNH.

 

 

[mojo1917]

So is this Simmonds for RNH a "thing"?

or is this just us speculating on what Chiarelli was saying to  Ron based on that picture from the Gretzky/Hlinka tournament.

 

For me Sanhiem is a no go, I base this upon that one time I saw him skate and that other time I saw his shot completely overwhelm an NHL goalie in a game.  Maybe you all weren't watching when that happened but, I saw it and it makes me think he's easy top 4 material .  I know small sample size and all, however, when he gets comfortable in the NHL and can loose that shot, good things will happen. Also he skates as well as anyone on the team not named Koneckny, actually he probably skates better than him too, but he's not as violent looking and doesn't have 11's burst. Sanhiem is the second pairing guy on a team that has 2 top pairings, same as all the teams that win **** not named the stinkin' Penguins have.

 

I would be fine parting with Gudas or MacDonald in order to improve our team, I think RNH does do that.

I'm not worried about blocking Frost at this point. Unless he's training to peak physically for NHL camp he's not ready for NHL minutes.  He was very ordinary in the showcase when I watched him.  Based on that 4 game sample we should be worried about blocking Jay O'Brien because that kid was a damn demon, and hurry up Joel Farabee. 

 

I think unless Simmonds is traded preseason he is with the team for the duration of this season. I also think we need to accept that he may sign somewhere else next offseason.  I have been coming to the idea that Simmonds may be our rental for this season, that bums me out.  

Trading him midseason if the team is contending will be bad, I don't see Hextall doing that. 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

There are too many defenseman still out there unsigned for the Oilers to really be interested in Gudas or Mcdud i think.

 

Besides now that i think about it i would rather maybe keep these two to expose to the new expansion team.

 

I think they will be fine i think with number of guys they have to protect however they also have to expose a certain percentage of their salary to the team as well.

 

I forget what that is too but i will have to be considered so these guys can help with that as both are under contract for the following season.

[AJgoal]

Here's my position on Frost/Farrabee/O'Brien, etc: I have no problem "blocking" them with good players. Since we're talking about RNH, I'll just use him as an example. If the Flyers bring in RNH and between him, Patrick, and Couturier Frost can't crack the lineup because - this is the key - He's not BETTER - then I'm fine with it. Let him work in Juniors or the AHL. What I don't want is Frost blocked by Lehtera, just because Lehtera is here. I'm fine with players earning their spots, I'm fine with slow-cooking if the determination is that will make it more likely a kid hits his ceiling. I just don't want a roster spot gifted to an inferior player just because they are here, and are a veteran.

[AJgoal]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

There are too many defenseman still out there unsigned for the Oilers to really be interested in Gudas or Mcdud i think.

 

Besides now that i think about it i would rather maybe keep these two to expose to the new expansion team.

 

I think they will be fine i think with number of guys they have to protect however they also have to expose a certain percentage of their salary to the team as well.

 

I forget what that is too but i will have to be considered so these guys can help with that as both are under contract for the following season.

 

Neither Gudas or MacDonald would help with either the exposed defenseman rule or the cap percentage rule, as they will be pending UFAs in 2020. The Flyers would need to re-sign one in order to expose them for that purpose.

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

Neither Gudas or MacDonald would help with either the exposed defenseman rule or the cap percentage rule, as they will be pending UFAs in 2020. The Flyers would need to re-sign one in order to expose them for that purpose.

 

Oh i was thinking it was going down after the upcoming season....yeah well damn that don't help none unless they resign them and expose them like they did Manning which wouldn't make much since for later...oh well nevermind then...

[brelic]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I'd be willing to risk to be rid of that contract.

 

Haha, me too. No way is MacDonald an untouchable! I just think the reality is that if he is traded, we'd have some initial growing pains. 

[OccamsRazor]

My dark horse for the 4th line if Frost is sent back to junior to simmer...

 

 

...worst case he shows he isn't ready and you just send him back to the AHL...

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Haha, me too. No way is MacDonald an untouchable! I just think the reality is that if he is traded, we'd have some initial growing pains. 

 

True however if Elliott doesn't come in ready to prove he wants to have the best year of his career it might not even matter...

[brelic]

40 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

So is this Simmonds for RNH a "thing"?

or is this just us speculating on what Chiarelli was saying to  Ron based on that picture from the Gretzky/Hlinka tournament.

 

It's pretty much from that picture where Ron was probably asking Chiarelli where to get a cheese steak in Red Deer, Alberta.

 

But, you know, it's August! WE NEED SOMETHING! Lol.

 

40 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

For me Sanhiem is a no go, I base this upon that one time I saw him skate and that other time I saw his shot completely overwhelm an NHL goalie in a game.  Maybe you all weren't watching when that happened but, I saw it and it makes me think he's easy top 4 material .  I know small sample size and all, however, when he gets comfortable in the NHL and can loose that shot, good things will happen. Also he skates as well as anyone on the team not named Koneckny, actually he probably skates better than him too, but he's not as violent looking and doesn't have 11's burst. Sanhiem is the second pairing guy on a team that has 2 top pairings, same as all the teams that win **** not named the stinkin' Penguins have.

 

I agree with everything you say - and I really don't think any trade involving Sanheim is because they're down on Sanheim. It's because they would feel that Player X improves the team and is in line with their long term direction, and to get Player X, you need to give quality. Sanheim is quality. 

 

And I'm not saying to definitely move him. I'm saying if Sanheim was involved in a trade to bring back a quality player that we need, I'm ok with it. Kinda sucks, but I trust they know what they're doing. Now, if they moved a guy like Ghost or TK, yeah, I would be really disappointed because I LOVE the way they play the game and they're so fun to watch. 

 

40 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I would be fine parting with Gudas or MacDonald in order to improve our team, I think RNH does do that.

I'm not worried about blocking Frost at this point. Unless he's training to peak physically for NHL camp he's not ready for NHL minutes.  He was very ordinary in the showcase when I watched him.  Based on that 4 game sample we should be worried about blocking Jay O'Brien because that kid was a damn demon, and hurry up Joel Farabee. 

 

 

Completely agree. A player 'blocked' by a better player isn't blocked at all. He's just not that good. That doesn't worry me. As @AJgoal said, 'blocking' is when it's a dumb contract / low skill player like Lehtera or Weise. 

[OccamsRazor]

If the Flyers play well and look good who knows maybe they say f**k it...

 

...keep Simmer as their own rental and with the 10 mill in cap space they take on another rental or two for a serious playoff push...

 

 

...stranger things have happened...with some much needed luck of course.

[AJgoal]

18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

My dark horse for the 4th line if Frost is sent back to junior to simmer...

 

 

...worst case he shows he isn't ready and you just send him back to the AHL...

 

I don't think Vorobyev is too much of a dark horse. I actually think he's the favorite if Hextall is willing to "Matt Read" the last year of Lehtera's contract. Then you're looking at a bottom six of:

 

Lindblom - Laughton/Weal - Simmonds

Raffl - Vorobyev - Laughton/Weal

Extras - Weise, Leier

 

3C is still the question mark of the forward corps, but you're certainly deeper on the wings. Of course, this assumes Hakstol doesn't all of a sudden fall in love with Weise.

 

And if Hakstol can avoid killing his goalies, and you can get just .915 tending over the season and in the playoffs, they  should actually look like a real hockey team.

[Claude Monet]

I’m a big sanheim fan. Got to see him a few times in the Dub.  I saw him take over games like never before. His skating is elite and combined with that size, it’s worth the wait to see him come together.

 

i can’t see Hexy doing a RNH trade till after camp. Flyers are not in a rush and might have a young player ready to step up.  

[elmatus]

On 8/15/2018 at 10:31 AM, brelic said:

More fuel for the fire. 

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/GARTHS-CORNER/Oil-Leak/6/94335

 

Oilers now down two top 4 defensemen since announcing Sekera is out 6-7 months with a torn achilles tendon.

 

We have the pieces to make it work - but would Hextall be willing to pay the price to get someone like RNH? Does Simmonds and, say, Gudas get it done? Or would Hextall have to part with a younger D - Sanheim is the only one that would make any sense. They're not trading Provorov, Ghost, or even MacDonald at this point, even though he might be the best fit for what the Oilers are looking for. 

 

If getting RNH means a defense that looks like this.. 

 

Provorov/Ghost

MacDonald/Gudas

Hagg/Myers

+The new guy we got... forget his name. 

+Morin when he's healthy

 

RNH is a strange case. On the surface, he really should be a top six guy. The problem is he has trouble consistently producing like one. Simmonds for RNH would seem a pretty even swap. Throwing someone like Sanheim into the mix seems like a high price to pay for a guy who would then be left manning the third line with very little in the way of wingers.

 

I can swallow making an RNH for Simmer trade straight up, but Simmer plus is a hard sell for sure. Also, this is Chiarelli. Why would we ever make a fair offer? Bleed him dry and walk away, like everyone else.

[brelic]

14 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

RNH is a strange case. On the surface, he really should be a top six guy. The problem is he has trouble consistently producing like one. Simmonds for RNH would seem a pretty even swap. Throwing someone like Sanheim into the mix seems like a high price to pay for a guy who would then be left manning the third line with very little in the way of wingers.

 

I can swallow making an RNH for Simmer trade straight up, but Simmer plus is a hard sell for sure. Also, this is Chiarelli. Why would we ever make a fair offer? Bleed him dry and walk away, like everyone else.

 

The Oilers just signed a defenseman, so it's probably a moot point now.

 

WYSIWIG with the Flyers roster. We'll see what shakes out in camp.

 

[elmatus]

40 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

The Oilers just signed a defenseman, so it's probably a moot point now.

 

WYSIWIG with the Flyers roster. We'll see what shakes out in camp.

 

 

It would be awesome if one of the young guns could fit in the 3C role. He'd have one very capable winger and another with a decent amount of potential. It's not a bad situation to be in really. Of course, I think Hexy would prefer having someone with experience in that spot, which I can very much understand. Considering that doesn't seem likely at this point, it would be nice to see someone step up in camp and grab the reins.

 

Honestly though, I have a feeling the Weal rumours are accurate. This being the last year of his contract, I think he'll start on the third to be given one last shot at playing NHL level hockey. He really was very good in the AHL. I know I for one am remarkably disappointed in his lack of adaptability to NHL standards. For a guy like Weal, this should be a put up or shut up year, and I think that's exactly what he'll get.

 

He's honestly lucky we don't have some sort of sunset veteran who can still play at a reasonable clip. If we did, he wouldn't be given this last chance at all. I hope he can recognize that.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, brelic said:

 

The Oilers just signed a defenseman, so it's probably a moot point now.

 

Not really Jerebek is really just a body for the blueline....not much really there.

 

They still need help back there and there are still some serviceable guys out there who could help them.

 

Just not sure if those guys would want to sign with the Oilers.

 

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

It would be awesome if one of the young guns could fit in the 3C role.

 

 

I think a guy like Vorobyev could center the 3rd line. He can score but is a passer first.

 

However i think Misha would be best to start off centering the 4th line and if showing promise he could supplant Laughton or Weal as the 3rd line center later in the year.

 

I think Laughton should be given every chance to play the 3rd spot first.

 

I am in the corner of not thinking Weal will be a 3rd line center.

 

Yet i have been wrong before.

 

One thing is for certain Jordan is running out of chances and room...so best case he plays well enough to interest a team come the trade deadline and Ron flips him for at least a 3rd round pick.

[OccamsRazor]

19 hours ago, elmatus said:

RNH is a strange case. On the surface, he really should be a top six guy.

 

I think if the Oilers are smart they try and trade RNH for Justin Faulk....Canes need a center and the Oilers need a defenseman.

 

Seems to help both sides.

 

I will tag JR in this to see what he thinks about that swap.  

 

@JR Ewing

 

Thoughts??

[JR Ewing]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think if the Oilers are smart they try and trade RNH for Justin Faulk....Canes need a center and the Oilers need a defenseman.

 

Seems to help both sides.

 

I will tag JR in this to see what he thinks about that swap.  

 

@JR Ewing

 

Thoughts??

 

-Remember how good Draisaitl was with McDavid? RNH and him are even better together, and keeping him on LW ticks some boxes for me. What do you do with a centre who has offensive ability, is defensively responsible but isn't very big and doesn't win a lot of faceoffs? It took years, but they finally tried him on the wing, and it was instantly good.

 

-Faulk would give the Oilers some things they could use: has good size, has a history of scoring goals. This is where I get hung up, though: many players who get points contribute to their teams getting outscored despite their point totals, so finding players who help the goal share while not getting enough points to move the salary dial is the golden ticket when filling out the roster.

 

Is Faulk that guy? I really can't say for sure. He gets a lot of his points on the PP, but at even-strength, the Canes have given him most of the offensive zone starts, but still give up over 55% of the goals while he's on the ice. If we look at how his teammates did with and without him, we see:

 

GoalsFor% improved playing with Faulk: 6

GoalsFor% declined playing with Faulk: 13

Teammate average GF% with Faulk -5.4%

 

We can compare this the effect that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins had on his teammates:

GoalsFor% improved playing with RNH: 15

GoalsFor% declined playing with RNH: 6

Teammate average GF% with RNH: +10.9%

 

-I'm not sure if Faulk is one of those golden ticket types or if you're stuck paying for offense that doesn't help as much you would hope, but there are things he does that the Oilers could use.

-Neither one of these players is perfect, but RNH is likely to provide more of what EDM needs.

 

[OccamsRazor]

The season's Wild card....

 

 

...if this kid can take the next step this season you could see Ron move some bodies out maybe before the trade deadline and maybe take on a short contract with the space they still have and maybe try and make a deep push for the playoffs.

 

If he finds his game this year he could be like a huge addition to the backend for some much added size and fire power.

 

To soon of course to know now in the dog days of August.

 

Guess we'll see....cue the fear, sky falling post....

[ruxpin]

I am not a huge fan of RNH, but I agree he's improved on wing. This is why when we were bantering around Flyers/Oilers rumors about him I was okay with him as a one year stopgap 3C but not worried about his then blocking a Frost or someone because he could swing out to wing (and then block Farabee!). 

 

That said, I'm even less of a fan of Faulk and think trading RNH for him would be a mistake for Edmonton (which is probably why this would be likely to happen).  I know a lot of people like him (we had a discussion about the Flyers getting him in one of our creative Simmonds for Skinner conversations).   But to me he is all (overrated) offense and very little defense. Maybe in Edmonton McDavid et al can't help but improve his offense. They won't improve his defense and that's really what they need, IMO.  I'd wait and get better value for RNH.