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OccamsRazor

Flyers 2018-19 Offseason moves

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I know there are going to be the @ruxpin on the board who are going to scream they are not impressed with Lyon and all that blah blah blah blah crap

 

We'll see.  He's had a nice little run, but overall body of work is meh and his NHL stint was worse than meh.   Maybe he got a taste and suddenly he's an entirely different goalie.

 

You know who else had an incredible run but at the NHL level?  Andrew Hammond.  Similar story in some respects, and my chips are on similar ending.

 

From where I sit, going into a season with Elliott and Lyon isn't as stupid as going into a season with Elliott and Neuvirth, but it's close enough and spells disaster.

Edited by ruxpin
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3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

  He's had a nice little run, but overall body of work is meh and his NHL stint was worse than meh. 

 

Well i disagree with the way the defense played or actually DIDN'T play in front of him...

 

...i can't fault him too much he went 4-2 (his 2 losses were to NJ and Boston by one goal) in his 7 starts that ain't too bad and he has upside that hasn't been tapped into.

 

The same can't be said about his other counterparts...who yeah were MEH.

 

I think he deserves a shot.

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15 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

You know who else had an incredible run but at the NHL level?  Andrew Hammond.

 

Yeah you put a good team in front of him he can play...an then you take players away they aren't as good look what has happened to Carey Price.

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12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

@ruxpin

 

How about a prospect for prospect swap??

 

I wouldn't mind trading from a strength to shore up a weak spot...

 

How about Lawson Crouse for German Rubtsov??? (and something else to even it up if need be)

 

Could reunite best friends and start the formation of a good line for years to come...

 

Crouse/Patrick/Konecny

 

Great 2nd line for next year and maybe future top line.

 

Thoughts.........complaints??

 

I've always liked Lawson Crouse and felt that Phoenix did him no favours in his development. I'd love him in Philadelphia. He's a big body that can skate, play a reliable two-way game and can be a presence in front of the net on a power play (Unit 2?). I'm hesitant on giving up Rubtsov though. I know that this year wasn't his best year, but adversity is never a bad thing for these kids to face and Rubtsov didn't hide from it. Let him come into Lehigh Valley in the fall with a clean slate and let him just play without any undue expectations. Kid is full of skill and talent and I don't think that's something to give up on just yet. 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah you put a good team in front of him he can play...an then you take players away they aren't as good look what has happened to Carey Price.

 

Carey Price, yes, that's a valid argument.

 

It's not with either Lyon or Hammond.  Hammond sucked on the team that was pretty much the same as the team the year before when he went on his run.  The difference between the 2014-15 and 2015-16 teams (99 pts and 85 pts respectively) was the difference between a 20-1-2 run and .941 SV% (not sustainable no matter who you are, really) and the horrible show he put on the year following.

 

The reason for the comparison is that he was never good in the minors before that.  He was promoted because of multiple goalie injuries.  He was sub-900 GAA that year in the AHL and only .910 the year before that.   He wasn't behind a good team at Bowling Green, but his numbers weren't good.  He had a run.   He's never been the same since.  He's actually been nearly exactly what he was before that run. 

 

HIs numbers in Lehigh weren't good and his numbers when he went to the Flyers remained consistent.   His save % was down a little, but the GAA remained the same --not good.   His current run is terrific, but his career doesn't indicate that he can sustain anywhere near that.  His numbers at Yale were decent, but let's see if he can sustain (despite no professional record of being able to).

 

I don't like the idea of Elliott and Lyon as the tandem going into next year.   I think you're most likely right, though, that that's what we end up with.  That tandem plus Hakstol (the more important ingredient to me is Hakstol) spells an ugly campaign.   But we'll see (we really will, because I think you're right that will be the tandem).

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4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Carey Price, yes, that's a valid argument.

 

It's not with either Lyon or Hammond.  Hammond sucked on the team that was pretty much the same as the team the year before when he went on his run.  The difference between the 2014-15 and 2015-16 teams (99 pts and 85 pts respectively) was the difference between a 20-1-2 run and .941 SV% (not sustainable no matter who you are, really) and the horrible show he put on the year following.

 

The reason for the comparison is that he was never good in the minors before that.  He was promoted because of multiple goalie injuries.  He was sub-900 GAA that year in the AHL and only .910 the year before that.   He wasn't behind a good team at Bowling Green, but his numbers weren't good.  He had a run.   He's never been the same since.  He's actually been nearly exactly what he was before that run. 

 

HIs numbers in Lehigh weren't good and his numbers when he went to the Flyers remained consistent.   His save % was down a little, but the GAA remained the same --not good.   His current run is terrific, but his career doesn't indicate that he can sustain anywhere near that.  His numbers at Yale were decent, but let's see if he can sustain (despite no professional record of being able to).

 

I don't like the idea of Elliott and Lyon as the tandem going into next year.   I think you're most likely right, though, that that's what we end up with.  That tandem plus Hakstol (the more important ingredient to me is Hakstol) spells an ugly campaign.   But we'll see (we really will, because I think you're right that will be the tandem).

 

We'll just have to disagree.

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:00 PM, AJgoal said:

 

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest a 1-for-1, but the Rinne talk sort of stream-of-consciensed me into Simmonds.

I hear you.  I think there would have to be a bigger trade if Simmonds was involved.

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21 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I'm cautious with Rinne. I'm wondering if age is finally catching up with him. He really fought the puck and struggled this playoffs. 

Fair points.  He seems to have bad moments in the POs regardless of age.

 

Still an upgrade over Elliott and Neuvirth, imo.  At least during the regular season.  

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3 minutes ago, vis said:

Still an upgrade over Elliott and Neuvirth, imo.  At least during the regular season. 

 

Any old pekka would do.

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2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Any old pekka would do.

 

So many jokes.

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I'd be all for a Elliott/Lyon tandem.  Lyon was dreadful his first stint up but played respectively well the 2nd time around.  You need to get one of our young goalies up to make room on the Phantoms too.  There is no point in having all these goalies in the system if you don't challenge them at the next level, we'll never know what they are capable of.  The sample size last year from Lyon showed that he deserves a chance to be in the NHL.

 

So we should start Neuvirth, he'll get hurt in the 1st period of the 1st preseason game.  Call up Lyon, and let him and Elliott play it out at a 60/40 75/25 rate depending on how Elliott and Lyon are playing.

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I wouldn't mind pursuing Rick Nash. He put up 21 goals and is a very good penalty killer. This is interesting, too, from Bob McKenzie:

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

I wouldn't mind pursuing Rick Nash. He put up 21 goals and is a very good penalty killer. This is interesting, too, from Bob McKenzie:

 

 

 

 

So just to further entertain this where would you slot Nash??

 

As far as Skinner goes his concussion history scares me a little....but it would also depend on the price tag.

 

Certainly worth kicking the tires on and he is only 26 right now.

 

He was suggested in this article too.

 

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Edited by OccamsRazor

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Posted (edited)

Maybe Lehtera gets bought out this year.

 

3rd highest paid on the team and on the 4th is ugly.

 

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2018-19: cap savings 3.3M cap hit 1.3M

2019-20: cap savings -1.6M cap hit 1.6M

 

Would you pull the trigger on this???

 

And since we are talking buyouts i posted this in the Morin thread so i'll put this here too since it is an offseason move.

 

I know it is highly unlikely since they just signed him to a new deal but could they buyout Gudas???

 

So here is a look:

 

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2018-19: savings 2.4M caphit-933K

2019-20:savings 1.5M caphit 1.8K

2020-21:savings -983K capit 983K

2021-22: savings -983K caphit 983K

 

Not sure if it would be worth it...for the roster spot when you could just bury him if you want to and save 925K

 

What about Mcdud???

 

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2018-19: savings 3.6M caphit-1.3M

2019-20:savings 3.8M caphit 1.1M

2020-21:savings -1.875M capit 1.875M

2021-22: savings -1.875M caphit 1.875M

 

Dale Weise too.

 

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2018-19: savings 1.6M caphit-680K

2019-20:savings 1.06M caphit 1.2M

2020-21:savings -683K capit 683K

2021-22: savings -683K caphit 683K

 

 

 

 

Edited by OccamsRazor

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@OccamsRazor

 

waive Lehtera if there isn't any room for him to play.

I see little benefit to buying him out and have the organization pay for him for a longer term.

 

Same with Gudas, if he doesn't fit the plan, trade him, he will bring back "something" .  Just paying guys to go away is not the best use of the cap money.  I know there's more room because the hit his reduced... but you'd still have around 5 million of dead money for how many years,  if they were all to be bought out ?  I don't think that's wise at all.

 

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4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I see little benefit to buying him out and have the organization pay for him for a longer term.

 

So you are cool with having 3.7 million in dead cap space and only 925K in cap relief???

 

 

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1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

So just to further entertain this where would you slot Nash??

 

2 or 3 LW, depending on how Lindblom progresses. I'd prefer 3.

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

As far as Skinner goes his concussion history scares me a little....but it would also depend on the price tag.

 

He's missed 8 games over the last 4 seasons combined. At this point, it's like the Pens' being worried about Crosby's concussion history.

 

31 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So you are cool with having 3.7 million in dead cap space and only 925K in cap relief???

 

 

Absolutely. What are you planning to do with the extra money? The Flyers are going to have anywhere from 17.5 to 22.5 million in cap room as it stands, with few open roster spots. Morin, Leier, and Hagg need extensions, but they should not be expensive. Even if they were to sign Tavares at 10 per year, as unlikely as that is, they're still comfortably under. Why carry dead cap into following years, when extensions for Provorov, Konecny, Sanheim, etc will start to kick in? It makes more fiscal sense to eat it now.

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Posted (edited)

they need a goalie, it's very risky to just pencil lyon as a starter despite the ahl success aka niittymaki, he won a calder cup in 2005 but crapped the bed as a starter in the nhl, if he's good enough for a backup, pencil him in, if not, keep eiliot, trade neuvy and trade for another goalie maybe rinne? i dont know it depends who's out there.

 

 

how's Patrick in faceoffs? if he isnt good, i would go after two centers and maybe slide Patrick and frost as wingers and get two centers that are good in faceoffs, we have been struggling with that this year and of course we need younger faster d man, hopefully some of the phantoms will pan out here.

that's what i would do.

 

if jt doesnt pan, maybe joe Thornton and borak? or via trade? all i know these same rosters arent working out, something has to be done either fa or trades.

Edited by briere48

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40 minutes ago, briere48 said:

they need a goalie, it's very risky to just pencil lyon as a starter despite the ahl success aka niittymaki, he won a calder cup in 2005 but crapped the bed as a starter in the nhl, if he's good enough for a backup, pencil him in, if not, keep eiliot, trade neuvy and trade for another goalie maybe rinne? i dont know it depends who's out there.

 

 

how's Patrick in faceoffs? if he isnt good, i would go after two centers and maybe slide Patrick and frost as wingers and get two centers that are good in faceoffs, we have been struggling with that this year and of course we need younger faster d man, hopefully some of the phantoms will pan out here.

that's what i would do.

 

if jt doesnt pan, maybe joe Thornton and borak? or via trade? all i know these same rosters arent working out, something has to be done either fa or trades.

I hate when people say Niittymaki crapped the bed during his tenure in Philadelphia. That's so untrue. Niittymaki was run into the ground by Hitchcock and actually need his hips operated on, but the Flyers were in playoff contention, so they waited until after the season and by then, the damage was done. 

 

As for Nolan Patrick and face offs, Christ sakes, he's 19 years old. Give him another season or two to learn the art of face offs and he'll be fine. And no, you don't move him to the wrong because of that. If you think Frost is going to be the answer, guess what, he'll go through the same learning curve.

 

Bringing in two veterans and sliding the young guys to the wing won't help because they'll still have to learn how to take draws. Best thing to do is key them take their lumps. That's what Giroux did. That's what Couturier did. It's what Laughton is doing. 

 

You can't cheat development.

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1 hour ago, briere48 said:

they need a goalie, it's very risky to just pencil lyon as a starter despite the ahl success aka niittymaki, he won a calder cup in 2005 but crapped the bed as a starter in the nhl, if he's good enough for a backup, pencil him in, if not, keep eiliot, trade neuvy and trade for another goalie maybe rinne? i dont know it depends who's out there.

 

 

how's Patrick in faceoffs? if he isnt good, i would go after two centers and maybe slide Patrick and frost as wingers and get two centers that are good in faceoffs, we have been struggling with that this year and of course we need younger faster d man, hopefully some of the phantoms will pan out here.

that's what i would do.

 

if jt doesnt pan, maybe joe Thornton and borak? or via trade? all i know these same rosters arent working out, something has to be done either fa or trades.

No no no no no. 

 

No on moving Patrick to wing. There's absolutely no reason to do that.   And no pushing him down for geriatric Thornton.   No, just no. 

 

Younger Dmen?  Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim and Hagg all have less than 3.5 years.  The last two with only less than 1 year.  We have Morin and Myers coming. Do you even watch the Flyers? 

 

Incase I didn't say it enough: No. 

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2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

What are you planning to do with the extra money?

 

Well i can't say what Ron would/could do with it...but it wouldn't be like setting it on fire with Jori playing.

 

And it would free up over 3.3 mill this year and only be 1.6mill against the cap next year so not that big a deal.

 

But as you suggested you could use that to give to Nash for example....

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3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So you are cool with having 3.7 million in dead cap space and only 925K in cap relief???

 

 

I think for one year, yes.

I think paying him beyond next year to not play for the team is unwise.

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2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

He's missed 8 games over the last 4 seasons combined. At this point, it's like the Pens' being worried about Crosby's concussion history.

 

Well he missed 16 in 2012.

 

5 in 2013 and then 4 in 2014.

 

So that 3 already by the time he is 26.

 

So yeah i'm scared of that.

 

And hard to compare it with the risk by comparing Crosby one of the best players in the NHL (ugh i almost threw up typing that).

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think for one year, yes.

I think paying him beyond next year to not play for the team is unwise.

 

Well i disagree unless they are NOT trying to do something with that money as in bring in better players.

 

Then yeah i guess just keep him.

 

Some guys need new deals too like Ivan and TK and then Morin, Hagg and Leier so some of those shouldn't cost much and depends on what they give Ivan and TK.

 

Oooops almost forget Simmer needs a new deal too.

 

.

Edited by OccamsRazor

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