Sam Morin Injured....Again

[Bertmega]

I so want to like this guy and want to see him with the big club, but it may be time to cut the cord. This guy cannot stay healthy and it may look like it is package time. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

[brelic]

9 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I so want to like this guy and want to see him with the big club, but it may be time to cut the cord. This guy cannot stay healthy and it may look like it is package time. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

 

I know what you're saying, but it would also mean selling at his absolute lowest value. And we don't *need* to move him... he'll be on the Flyers roster next year, injured or not. 

 

I think at this point we may as well wait and see how he does next year. Does he start the season healthy? Can he stay healthy? Can he keep up with NHL competition? Did he become a smarter player (discipline-wise) over the years? Defensively? And so on...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I so want to like this guy and want to see him with the big club, but it may be time to cut the cord. This guy cannot stay healthy and it may look like it is package time. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

 

No bro. Calm down and step back from the ledge.

 

Till this year he hasn't had a injury issue.

 

He has struggled through a groin/hernia that will most likely need off season surgery.

 

And now hit a rut in the ice and may have a possible torn ACL or MCL.

 

Can't fault a guy on stuff like that. It happens in this physical game...soft tissue injuries you can blame them for as that is more related to hydration and conditioning.

 

His issues as listed and even a broken jaw in juniors you can't fault him for and guys his size with his toughness and mobility don't grow on trees. And he is only 22 or 23.

 

So ease up on the giving up on the kid.

 

He should be able contribute sometime next year depending how serious the injury to his knee is.

 

No Myers is the one with the injury concerns.

[Bertmega]

9 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

I know what you're saying, but it would also mean selling at his absolute lowest value. And we don't *need* to move him... he'll be on the Flyers roster next year, injured or not. 

 

I think at this point we may as well wait and see how he does next year. Does he start the season healthy? Can he stay healthy? Can he keep up with NHL competition? Did he become a smarter player (discipline-wise) over the years? Defensively? And so on...

 

 

I  think Myers is on the Flyers roster before Morin. While I agree there is no point/need to move him there also isn't one for keeping him around. 

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, Bertmega said:

I  think Myers is on the Flyers roster before Morin. While I agree there is no point/need to move him there also isn't one for keeping him around. 

 

Well he is the one who can't stay healthy.

 

He missed 26 games this year.

 

He I am worried about.

[Bertmega]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No bro. Calm down and step back from the ledge.

 

Till this year he hasn't had a injury issue.

 

He has struggled through a groin/hernia that will most likely need off season surgery.

 

And now hit a rut in the ice and may have a possible torn ACL or MCL.

 

Can't fault a guy on stuff like that. It happens in this physical game...soft tissue injuries you can blame them for as that is more related to hydration and conditioning.

 

His issues as listed and even a broken jaw in juniors you can't fault him for and guys his size with his toughness and mobility don't grow on trees. And he is only 22 or 23.

 

So ease up on the giving up on the kid.

 

He should be able contribute sometime next year depending how serious the injury to his knee is.

 

No Myers is the one with the injury concerns.

Ledge? Not really. I won't lose sleep over a 7th defenseman coming or going. I am looking at it from the "it's time to move on from the Morin distraction" camp. 

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I  think Myers is on the Flyers roster before Morin. While I agree there is no point/need to move him there also isn't one for keeping him around. 

 

Based on this year's play, I agree - Myers probably 'deserves' a spot before Morin. 

 

But similar to last year, they may opt to give that chance to the guy who's paid his dues (Hagg).

[Bertmega]

9 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Based on this year's play, I agree - Myers probably 'deserves' a spot before Morin. 

 

But similar to last year, they may opt to give that chance to the guy who's paid his dues (Hagg).

I can agree with that.

 

Camp should be interesting this year

[ruxpin]

39 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

Ledge? Not really. I won't lose sleep over a 7th defenseman coming or going. I am looking at it from the "it's time to move on from the Morin distraction" camp. 

 

If he's healthy, he's a second pairing defenseman that will alter what the opponent is doing -- unless Hakstol is the idiot I believe him to be.

 

I'm not sure what either the "7th defenseman" or "Morin distraction" is about.

[Bertmega]

8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I'm not sure what either the "7th defenseman" or "Morin distraction" is about.

My lack of morning coffee and dealing with I-76 E.

 

I admit my post was a little sensational.

[ruxpin]

41 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Based on this year's play, I agree - Myers probably 'deserves' a spot before Morin. 

 

But similar to last year, they may opt to give that chance to the guy who's paid his dues (Hagg).

 

I'm not sure I understand the bad press Hagg gets on this board.

 

Morin and Myers shouldn't block each other (enter Hakstol).  Morin shoots left while Myers shoots right.   And each bring a skillset the other doesn't.   Right now, though, the Flyers need some physicality on the back end.   I'd like to see them both up, but I know Morin is no longer waiver-exempt.   Do you know whether Myers is?  If Morin can't go through waivers but Myers can, I think Myers probably waits a bit yet.

 

Assuming everyone is healthy (which is like assuming it won't rain in Seattle)

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

dealing with I-76 E.

 

That'll do it!   Perfectly understandable. 

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I'm not sure I understand the bad press Hagg gets on this board.

 

Not from me... I like Hagg. I think he may have been a bit overused in stretches of the season, but he looks to be a solid 4/5 defenseman. 

 

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Morin and Myers shouldn't block each other (enter Hakstol).  Morin shoots left while Myers shoots right.   And each bring a skillset the other doesn't.   Right now, though, the Flyers need some physicality on the back end.   I'd like to see them both up, but I know Morin is no longer waiver-exempt.   Do you know whether Myers is?  If Morin can't go through waivers but Myers can, I think Myers probably waits a bit yet.

 

Assuming everyone is healthy (which is like assuming it won't rain in Seattle)

 

I agree - they shouldn't block each other, but that depends on what happens with the vets. 

 

Right now, we have

Provo/Ghost

Sanheim/MacDonald

Gudas/Hagg

 

So unless someone is moved OR Hak slots a rookie above, say, Gudas, there's already a logjam. 

 

If Gudas is moved, that still only leaves one spot for a rookie. 

 

Also, as if on cue, here's a write-up on Myers.

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/news/myers-shining-in-calder-cup-playoffs--philadelphia-flyers/c-298628652

 

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, brelic said:

he looks to be a solid 4/5 defenseman. 

 

I think that's a sound assessment.

10 minutes ago, brelic said:

Right now, we have

Provo/Ghost

Sanheim/MacDonald

Gudas/Hagg

 

When you look at this and realize Myers and Morin are both still sitting, yeah, someone's got to go.

 

If Gudas isn't moved, he's my 7th defenseman.  But it's been said elsewhere that if you make Gudas #7, then you run the risk of Hakstol incessantly running him out there at the expense of one of the kids.   Again, I'm not sure about Myers' waiver status (if it was in the article--interesting read--I missed it).  If he's still waiver-exempt, he stays down and becomes my injury call-up.

 

Provo/Ghost

Sanheim/MacDonald

Morin/Hagg -- but I don't know if Morin can play the right side and it's not a highly mobile pair.

 

Myer, given that he's a right-handed shot, probably slots in there better.  If you move both MacDonald AND Gudas, I think you've gone too young, but that certainly opens it up. 

 

Provo/Ghost

Sanheim/Morin

Myers/Hagg

 

or

 

Provo/Hagg

Ghost/Morin

Myers/Sanheim

 

I'd be tempted to put Sanheim and Myers together, but that's a really green defense either way.    You could just move MacDonald--assuming that's possible (maybe, given he only has 2 years left on his contract)--and keep Gudas as your #7.  Otherwise, I don't know who #7 is.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Bertmega said:

Ledge? Not really. I won't lose sleep over a 7th defenseman coming or going. I am looking at it from the "it's time to move on from the Morin distraction" camp. 

 

Wow that is just crazy talk right there.

 

 

[ruxpin]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Wow that is just crazy talk right there.

 

 

 

Yeah, but he was decaffing it on the SureKill.  That'd make the most sane person crazy and cranky.

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, Bertmega said:

I so want to like this guy and want to see him with the big club, but it may be time to cut the cord. This guy cannot stay healthy and it may look like it is package time. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

 

@brelic nailed it though. I'm not sure what moving him would give us at this point. Not many teams are likely to give up much for a guy who remains largely an unknown quantity and who has an awful recent injury history. Even as part of a package, I'm not sure he moves the needle that much right now.

 

We have a tendency around here to overvalue prospects. It's understandable of course. We hear about Morin all the time. He must be an amazing player right? The fact is, he's statistically unlikely to be an elite force at the NHL level. He's much more likely to be a second to third pairing guy with good and bad stretches.

 

That's not a bad thing of course. We need those guys too! But NHL GMs aren't going to trade much for a guy like Morin right now. His body of work up to now just isn't impressive enough to warrant much attention.

 

Chiarelli is the only exception. I'm pretty sure he just dartboards most of his decisions. Morin for McDavid and a first in 2019?

[Bertmega]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Wow that is just crazy talk right there.

 

 

It's only Wednesday. Wait till you see what I have in store for tomorrow. LOL

[brelic]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

We have a tendency around here to overvalue prospects. It's understandable of course. We hear about Morin all the time. He must be an amazing player right? The fact is, he's statistically unlikely to be an elite force at the NHL level. He's much more likely to be a second to third pairing guy with good and bad stretches.

 

Plus he was considered a stretch and a project where the Flyers drafted him. I believe consensus had him as a 2nd round pick, but we reached and took him at 11th overall.

 

This season will tell us a lot. 

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

He's much more likely to be a second to third pairing guy with good and bad stretches.

 

That's actually where I slot him.  Ideally second, but possibly third given all the other prospects coming at the same time.   Statistically speaking, I don't expect a lot.  If he gets 10-15 points on a year that'll be about what I expect.   I'm hoping for the crease-clearing, physical guy we don't currently have (until or unless the league neuters him in the same way they have Gudas).  Kind of Pronger-lite (especially without the offense).  I'd like to see that change-up in the lineup.  Kind of an answer to Oleksiak.

 

But yeah, 2nd (2B) to 3rd pairing is what I would expect as a ceiling.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Plus he was considered a stretch and a project where the Flyers drafted him. I believe consensus had him as a 2nd round pick, but we reached and took him at 11th overall.

 

This season will tell us a lot. 

 

Most everything I saw had him first round, with a lot in the teens (one as high as 10th, several in the 20s).   Oddly, there were a couple that had Hagg higher, so somehow we walked away with both.   Some mocks had Ristolainen and/or Bo Horvat falling to us, though. Can you imagine? 

 

If he was really projected 2nd round and you really want him anyway, you have to trade back there.  I don't think there was any thought he'd still be there after #20, though.

 

Looking at what was still on the board, I think it's hard to argue that Holmgren went BPA, though.

[OccamsRazor]

Wow.

 

The post in this thread.

 

However I'm not shocked (typical Flyer fans) it give us plenty thread material to bitch about giving up on a kid so early for him to only go somewhere else and play well just like Zadrov did when the Sabres gave up on him so early now the Avs have them a great defenseman.

 

SMFH

[Bertmega]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

That's actually where I slot him.  Ideally second, but possibly third given all the other prospects coming at the same time.   Statistically speaking, I don't expect a lot.  If he gets 10-15 points on a year that'll be about what I expect.   I'm hoping for the crease-clearing, physical guy we don't currently have (until or unless the league neuters him in the same way they have Gudas).  Kind of Pronger-lite (especially without the offense).  I'd like to see that change-up in the lineup.  Kind of an answer to Oleksiak.

 

But yeah, 2nd (2B) to 3rd pairing is what I would expect as a ceiling.

I would be ecstatic with a Luke Richardson type player. Please do not be Rathje 2.0

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I would be ecstatic with a Luke Richardson type player. Please do not be Rathje 2.0

 

He seems like he's more mobile than Rathje (especially Rathje post-injury).   But I think that's what they've been working on, right?  His skating?

 

Yeah, a Luke Richardson-type (but dramatically bigger) is what I'm thinking.  That doesn't get you top pairing, I don't think.  So yeah, 2B or 3rd pair.  Preferably 2B.

[elmatus]

25 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

just like Zadrov did when the Sabres gave up on him so early now the Avs have them a great defenseman

 

You mean the Zadorov with 48 pts in 222 NHL games and who sits at a -35 in his five year NHL career? That's third pairing at best imo.

 

Honestly, I hope Morin turns out better than that... That's not encouraging to me. :/