CreaseAndAssist Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: On topic though, hopefully this new Fenton dude is a bit more daring than Fletcher, yet not daringly STUPID like, say, oh, I dunno, a Brian Burke in Toronto was.... I.E., handing out stupidly expensive and long contracts to marginal players on a regular basis. I mean, a championship GMs gotta know when to back the money truck up, and when to just say, "you know, what? That's just too much, good luck in your future endeavors" Fletcher wasn't afraid to take risks. Fenton will need to fix the draft and development system for this organization, and if he can help the team make some deals great...but that will be tough given all the stupid NMC/NTC's Fletcher gave to their big money players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 hours ago, hf101 said: With Seatle on it's way to being another new NHL franchise, I think GM's are thinking twice about giving NMC / NTC clauses out like a bag of candy these days. I'd like to see contract length at 6 years max too. I thought that was the case UNTIL the Wild gave Mikko Koivu one, and he's going to be 35 years old to start THIS season. (shakes head in disgust) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Fletcher wasn't afraid to take risks. Fenton will need to fix the draft and development system for this organization, and if he can help the team make some deals great...but that will be tough given all the stupid NMC/NTC's Fletcher gave to their big money players. Definitely agree on the bolded. For a number of seasons the Wild's draft board (as in when and where they get to draft), has been somewhat of a mess. Then they DO draft a promising player in Alex Tuch…..and of course he gets exposed so guys like Dumba and Brodin are left alone. This coming draft, the Wild at least still have a first rounder, but then no 2nd rounder, they DO have THREE 3rd rounders (one each from Vegas and Buffalo in addition to their own), nothing in the 4th, two 5ths, then draft as normal from the 6th on. I'd like to see more consistency where the team gets to draft a bit more evenly in the rounds (of course, the CHOICES they make have to pan out too), or a situation where they can accumulate a bit more picks in the earlier rounds instead of always being a mostly late round picking team. I realize this may have to coincide with Minnesota giving up some rosters players now to GET those picks AND that actually making the playoffs oftentimes puts the team from the middle of the picking order on down, but still, I see contenders still manage to stash away higher draft picks all the time through some shrewd wheeling and dealing. And I have also seen those same contenders still come up with good players that can help impact a team sooner rather than later. If Fenton is good at identifying exactly what this team needs, and he is as good at his job as GM as he was as an assistant, then maybe we got our guy. But until I start seeing some results, seems to me the Wild are gonna have to make due with what they have at the moment with no real big revelations in the pipeline coming any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Definitely agree on the bolded. For a number of seasons the Wild's draft board (as in when and where they get to draft), has been somewhat of a mess. Then they DO draft a promising player in Alex Tuch…..and of course he gets exposed so guys like Dumba and Brodin are left alone. This coming draft, the Wild at least still have a first rounder, but then no 2nd rounder, they DO have THREE 3rd rounders (one each from Vegas and Buffalo in addition to their own), nothing in the 4th, two 5ths, then draft as normal from the 6th on. I'd like to see more consistency where the team gets to draft a bit more evenly in the rounds (of course, the CHOICES they make have to pan out too), or a situation where they can accumulate a bit more picks in the earlier rounds instead of always being a mostly late round picking team. I realize this may have to coincide with Minnesota giving up some rosters players now to GET those picks AND that actually making the playoffs oftentimes puts the team from the middle of the picking order on down, but still, I see contenders still manage to stash away higher draft picks all the time through some shrewd wheeling and dealing. And I have also seen those same contenders still come up with good players that can help impact a team sooner rather than later. If Fenton is good at identifying exactly what this team needs, and he is as good at his job as GM as he was as an assistant, then maybe we got our guy. But until I start seeing some results, seems to me the Wild are gonna have to make due with what they have at the moment with no real big revelations in the pipeline coming any time soon. The Wild have overvalued character over speed, skill and scoring. In defense they've overvalued mobility than physical play. Toss in the fact the team threw away 2nd round picks year after year in failed deadline moves and you have a shallow prospect pool. We did change our draft philosophy in the fact it became more college focused because we had a group of players that were filling out the roster right around the time that we made the Suter / Parise deal. So we took the longer development curve of college players as opposed to major junior standouts. Yet the other Wild tendency that needs to be broken is accelerating prospects before they are ready. Nashville lets prospects develop at their own pace and they get called up when the prospect is ready, not when the team needs help. That takes patience which is something a 'win now' team like the Wild hasn't show much of the last 3-4 years or ever really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Until this team figures out what it wants to be, it's going to be mired in mediocrity. First they were going to be modeled after the old Flying Frenchmen, a fast skating, skill and finesse team. But they always finished too high to ever get a shot at the players that might have turned them into The Flying Frenchmen Mk II. Then there was the attempt at being a tough team by bringing in Todd Fedoruk and Aaron Voros to pair with Derek Boogaard. Then there was the bright idea of bringing in a whole bunch of scoring defensemen (Petterri Nummelin, Marek Zidlickey, Marc-Andre Bergeron). This team is the epitome of Minnesota Nice. They're not really bad at anything, but they're not really good at anything either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 47 minutes ago, IllaZilla said: Until this team figures out what it wants to be, it's going to be mired in mediocrity. First they were going to be modeled after the old Flying Frenchmen, a fast skating, skill and finesse team. But they always finished too high to ever get a shot at the players that might have turned them into The Flying Frenchmen Mk II. Then there was the attempt at being a tough team by bringing in Todd Fedoruk and Aaron Voros to pair with Derek Boogaard. Then there was the bright idea of bringing in a whole bunch of scoring defensemen (Petterri Nummelin, Marek Zidlickey, Marc-Andre Bergeron). This team is the epitome of Minnesota Nice. They're not really bad at anything, but they're not really good at anything either... Yeah, let's not forget all the hype about getting Tom Gilbert. They were revolutionizing the team back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck_hawg Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 2 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Until this team figures out what it wants to be, it's going to be mired in mediocrity. First they were going to be modeled after the old Flying Frenchmen, a fast skating, skill and finesse team. But they always finished too high to ever get a shot at the players that might have turned them into The Flying Frenchmen Mk II. Then there was the attempt at being a tough team by bringing in Todd Fedoruk and Aaron Voros to pair with Derek Boogaard. Then there was the bright idea of bringing in a whole bunch of scoring defensemen (Petterri Nummelin, Marek Zidlickey, Marc-Andre Bergeron). This team is the epitome of Minnesota Nice. They're not really bad at anything, but they're not really good at anything either... Exactly!!! This has frustrated me for years. What is the identity of this franchise? Last year they thought their up tempo style would get them deep into the playoffs so they trade draft picks for Hanzal? Really? The slowest center in the league, while burying Haula deeper down the depth chart. Makes absolutely no sense. FFS, pick a model and build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild.source Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 15 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Much of that seems fairly true but the Wild did evolve from the Lemaire days. Early on they were a defense first type team and upon Leipold buying the team there was a scorching article written about how 'plain' and 'boring' the Wild were... It created a lot of friction. Shortly thereafter the team was destined to revitalize itself as a more offensive minded team. In comes Chuck Fletcher and he brought in Todd Richards. The offense was juiced up a bit but then with offensive minded players not helping out as much on defense it left Backstrom's glaring 5-hole, glaring more. That kind of evolved into Yeo's stint here too to a degree but suddenly everyone in the front office and in the news started yapping about two-way players (and I don't mean contracts.) During that time it seemed they would acquire any kind of old-junk offensive minded d-men while attempting to reel in defensive minded O-men. ((((nerve wracking)))) As far as I'm concerned much of the Wild's style is based on reacting to how other teams play and then defending it. They want to score more goals, no doubt about that. Extending Yeo-Bobble's contract for 3 more years was a big indication to continue with a more offensive minded team... And not adding another decent (solid) 2nd line d-man during Yeo's last 2 years here and now during Bruce's stint... Still indicates Craig wanted 'more exciting hockey' to continue. For 4 years now they've been rotating a 5, 6 & number 7 d-men into their 4th d-man spot. Now though with Fenton? He did help wheel and deal Suter and then Webber... And then pull in Subban. Nashville has good offense and they have good defense. Nashville fans are still peeved at Suter for leaving, he still gets booed when playing there, and who would have thought getting ride of both Suter and Webber not too far apart from each other; actually would have paid off? I don't know though, this whole thing ought to be interesting. I saw this coming.....Paul Fenton as the new GM. It was no surprise because everyone was talking about how Leipold was looking into having Paul Fenton as the GM of the Wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/20/2018 at 10:58 PM, rottenrefs said: I'm not surprised he was picked. Then again I thought it was pretty terrible they paraded him around here while Nashville was still in the playoffs. That was my first thought when heard about him - not sure how I'd feel if I were a Pred fan, but I bet I wouldn't like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Fenton was going to leave eventually. As I said, for the last 5 years his name had always been mentioned whenever there was a GM opening. He was like Jim Nill, waiting for the opportunity he felt was right for him. I hope drafting and developing will change; that's all I'm really hopeful for. I wanted Paul Fenton here for that reason, as the Predators have a pretty good track record of drafting and developing talent. Only time will tell if he can fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Ice Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: He was like Jim Nill, waiting for the opportunity he felt was right for him. So he's looking for a real challenge then. I'd jump on a different organization. This team is stuck in mud. He better hope Leipold is patient with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Heard a bit of his interview / press conference (while driving) and some things stood out. 1. He really is on-board with the State of Hockey jazz. My take is it's that and more. When he spoke of playing high school hockey in Massachusetts and being amazed by it, then identifying how much of an impact their state high school hockey tournament meant to him and how much more Minnesota's is - I truly believe his perspective of hockey here is undoubtedly amazing, but from that I gathered he may take things in a direction so many others simply didn't cash in on. ie: As I've said all along, the owners of NHL teams here (dating back decades) are morons when they keep saying Minnesota isn't a big market for hockey. No. Minnesota has a massive market but the trouble is there's almost too much to choose from with so many great teams ranging from school age kids, high school, to college teams. Someone like Fenton (I believe) has the vision and aspiration to somehow draw it all together with an NHL team leading the way rather than just being another alternative. 2. While being kind to the current staff and how he addressed needing to meet with them (and so on and so on) I listened to what he said, but I think more importantly it's what he didn't say that rings volumes. He's bought and paid for... He said 'tweak' 5 or 6 times within just a few moments along with singing praise for the club... But if this guy thinks he just landed his picture perfect job to run he's got another thing coming. He is going to have a hell of a time dealing with so many big egos that are larger than the talent any one of them possess. He's going to lean on his core leaders... Scares the hell out of me. Rinse - repeat. IMO I don't give a damn what my core leaders say. I give a damn about the players I talk to who walk in and can't look me directly in the eye and / or cower in any way. Their silence is 'the most important thing' this club needs to "tweak." If they can't be made to feel important this team isn't going anywhere. That's part of what's in the water. 3. Deals and trades. He will be making deals and willing to make trades. How deep or how vast? I think he's already got a plan but who's going to be the sacrificial lamb to gain more draft picks or how will he go about gaining more growth potential type talent without pissing off Leipold and his coveted top three waste cases? My guess is that the team will be "tweaked" by not pissing them off either. That may be an impossible task. Rinse - repeat. He's definitely got his work cut out for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megawild Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 4:47 PM, Davey J said: Craig Leipold has his new Yes-man... It's gonna be a whole lot more of the same old sh!t! I think that worries all of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megawild Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 6:14 PM, CreaseAndAssist said: I thought that was the case UNTIL the Wild gave Mikko Koivu one, and he's going to be 35 years old to start THIS season. (shakes head in disgust) Maybe someone can go all Tonya Harding on his knee and force a retirement... I kid, I KID!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megawild Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, rottenrefs said: ...... He's definitely got his work cut out for him. Agreed. It's hard to have a ton of hope right now. Craig best realize his new GM needs to let the team put up or shut up. I am just not convinced he's to that point. I am still fairly sure he's delusional and expects the party line to be toed. The question is if Fenton will actually be able to do his job without fear of consequences from CL. Also, does he WANT to do that job or just collect a paycheck. Things are certainly going to be interesting next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 13 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Fenton was going to leave eventually. As I said, for the last 5 years his name had always been mentioned whenever there was a GM opening. He was like Jim Nill, waiting for the opportunity he felt was right for him. I hope drafting and developing will change; that's all I'm really hopeful for. I wanted Paul Fenton here for that reason, as the Predators have a pretty good track record of drafting and developing talent. Only time will tell if he can fix that. Then he'd better start right now by firing the whole scouting staff and starting from scratch. The Wild scouts would screw up the draft if they had a choice between Wayne Gretzky, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid, and Joe Shlabotnik... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild.source Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I was already thinking of doing a forum on this.... @CreaseandAssist beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 9 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Then he'd better start right now by firing the whole scouting staff and starting from scratch. The Wild scouts would screw up the draft if they had a choice between Wayne Gretzky, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid, and Joe Shlabotnik... So what you are saying is, I should draft ol Joe for my fantasy league ONLY if I have the extra roster spot to spare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: So what you are saying is, I should draft ol Joe for my fantasy league ONLY if I have the extra roster spot to spare? Well, considering Joe hit 0.004 and eventually got demoted to the Waffletown Syrups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 In Joe Shlabotnik's defense, he as been playing the game since he was 3 and has size-15 feet. I agree with you, why has this scouting staff been kept fairly intact through two administrations is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said: In Joe Shlabotnik's defense, he as been playing the game since he was 3 and has size-15 feet. I agree with you, why has this scouting staff been kept fairly intact through two administrations is beyond me. Friends of Craigie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreaseAndAssist Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 2 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Friends of Craigie? Many of them were here before Craig.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 10 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said: Many of them were here before Craig.... Head Scout Guy Lapointe - Risebrough hire 2000 US College Scout Brian Hunter - Risebrough hire 2006Amateur Scouts Craig Carter - Fletcher hire 2017? Craig Channell - Fletcher hire 2009 Paul Charles - Risebrough hire 2000 Martin Gendron - Fletcher hire 2015 Christopher Hamel - ? Martin Nanne - Fletcher hire 2009 Ernie Vargas - Risebrough hire 2003 Darren Yopyk - Fletcher hire 2011European Scouts Ricard Persson - Fletcher hire 2010 Pavel Routa - Fletcher hire 2009 Ivan Nepriaev - Fletcher hire 2017?Pro Scouts Jamie Hislop - Risebrough hire 2006 Chris Kelleher - Fletcher hire 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megawild Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Thanks Illa.... Definitely seems it's time for some new blood. Hopefully the old boys club isn't too closed off from changes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Head Scout Guy Lapointe - Risebrough hire 2000 US College Scout Brian Hunter - Risebrough hire 2006Amateur Scouts Craig Carter - Fletcher hire 2017? Craig Channell - Fletcher hire 2009 Paul Charles - Risebrough hire 2000 Martin Gendron - Fletcher hire 2015 Christopher Hamel - ? Martin Nanne - Fletcher hire 2009 Ernie Vargas - Risebrough hire 2003 Darren Yopyk - Fletcher hire 2011European Scouts Ricard Persson - Fletcher hire 2010 Pavel Routa - Fletcher hire 2009 Ivan Nepriaev - Fletcher hire 2017?Pro Scouts Jamie Hislop - Risebrough hire 2006 Chris Kelleher - Fletcher hire 2009 Well that explains the waisted draft pick on Nanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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