Seattle Changes Everything for the Flyers

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

One can hope he’ll be prepared,  it he’ll literally have to move them for picks or rookies in order to not get nothing for them. 

 

I thought Hextall was extremely prepared last time around.  The choices McPhee had in Philly were essentially a bunch of crap and Raffl. Somehow he passed on Raffl... if he hadn’t it wouldn’t have been the  end of the world.  

 

It’s really only the D men I m worried about.  I don’t think losing a vecchione or vorobyov for the sake of keeping a Patrick or a Lindblom would concern anyone. 

 

Losing a Myers or a Morin(god willing) to keep a Sanheim is a sophie’s Choice I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Meh, Maybe Shero. 

 

He will no way he worked this hard to build this embarrassment of riches only to have some new start up and come in and steal away some good talent from him.

 

I mean we seen them just take Bellemare because he planned pretty well the first time and he was the best they really offered at the time.

 

Now with that said i don't expect the roster by that time to be full of the Mcduds and Weises types.

 

So they will have the choice of some lower level type picks like a Raffl, Weal, Leier, Laughton or a Friedman type of prospect which still won't be that bad.

[ruxpin]

I volunteer Laughton as Tribute.

[hf101]

36 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I volunteer Laughton as Tribute.

LOL

 

I think the key to Hextalls planning will be that the team may lose 1 good player.  Oh well.  I wasn't happy about losing Bellamare last season either, but let's just not be stupid aka the Wild last year (Haula and Tuch) and lose 2 key players to protect 1.

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, hf101 said:

LOL

 

I think the key to Hextalls planning will be that the team may lose 1 good player.  Oh well.  I wasn't happy about losing Bellamare last season either, but let's just not be stupid aka the Wild last year (Haula and Tuch) and lose 2 key players to protect 1.

 

Agreed.   Though I might be willing to go pick + lesser player to avoid, say, Sanheim or Konecny.

 

[brelic]

Yeah it looks like we will lose one of Morin or Myers. Anaheim, lost Theodore.

 

Maybe the smart move is to trade one of them before the end of the 2019-2020 season. It would make sense.

[ruxpin]

25 minutes ago, brelic said:

Yeah it looks like we will lose one of Morin or Myers. Anaheim, lost Theodore.

 

Maybe the smart move is to trade one of them before the end of the 2019-2020 season. It would make sense.

 

But if you trade one, doesn't it make it more likely you lose the second?

 

For example, Seattle has the choice of Morin or Myers.  So, you trade Myers so you get something and then they are left to pick Morin and you end up with neither.   Trading out doesn't seem to be the solution, but I can't come up with any good one, either.

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, brelic said:

Yeah it looks like we will lose one of Morin or Myers. Anaheim, lost Theodore.

 

Maybe the smart move is to trade one of them before the end of the 2019-2020 season. It would make sense.

 

Well not if you trade him first.

 

It is the route I go so to avoid losing a guy for nothing.

 

 

You could even say (for example only) take a prospect drafted this year and a pick maybe for Morin to a team that could/would protect him or expose him if they want it wouldn't be the Flyers issue at least they got something for him.

[ruxpin]

Sign someone really good that you don't really want to a decent but not exorbitant contract, leave him exposed, and hope they take your signee. 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well not if you trade him first.

 

It is the route I go so to avoid losing a guy for nothing.

 

 

You could even say (for example only) take a prospect drafted this year and a pick maybe for Morin to a team that could/would protect him or expose him if they want it wouldn't be the Flyers issue at least they got something for him.

 

But I still don't see how this ultimately helps.   Because Seattle has to take someone and we have to expose a defenseman.  So, under this plan, we end up down two young defenders instead of one.   I really don't think this is a wise solution.

[ruxpin]

You know what really sucks?  That's the summer that both MacDonald's and Gudas' contracts expire or I'd call Seattle with "if you take Gudas, we'll also throw in a 2nd round pick and this Samsung dishwasher"

[ruxpin]

My favorite so far is to leave Voracek exposed and pray they take him.

[OccamsRazor]

24 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

But I still don't see how this ultimately helps.   Because Seattle has to take someone and we have to expose a defenseman.  So, under this plan, we end up down two young defenders instead of one.   I really don't think this is a wise solution.

 

Hard to say right now.

 

But say you trade Morin or Myers protect the one you don't trade and by then you leave Friedman exposed and even Willcox like said just for example, I haven't looked at it to closely to know who that could would be I'm at work.

 

The point being you want to plan ahead so you can dictate who it will be and say for example if you know it's going to be Morin (and a pick)trade him to Carolina say for Necas or a younger D prospect who wouldn't require protection. There getting something for Morin because you don't want to lose him for nothing.

 

You want too leave Seattle with slim pickings.

[brelic]

31 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

But if you trade one, doesn't it make it more likely you lose the second?

 

For example, Seattle has the choice of Morin or Myers.  So, you trade Myers so you get something and then they are left to pick Morin and you end up with neither.   Trading out doesn't seem to be the solution, but I can't come up with any good one, either.

 

Well, not necessarily, I think.

 

If you go 8/1, you could do 4 F and 4 D plus 1 G.

 

So let's say

G, Coots, TK, Patrick

Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers

(Trade Morin)

Protect whatever goalie you want/need to.

 

Or if you go 7/3/1, that's when you run into numbers problems.

G, Coots, TK, Patrick, Lindblom, Voracek, and one more forward

Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim

(Both Morin and Myers are exposed)

Protect whatever goalie you want/need to.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

27 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

You know what really sucks?  That's the summer that both MacDonald's and Gudas' contracts expire or I'd call Seattle with "if you take Gudas, we'll also throw in a 2nd round pick and this Samsung dishwasher"

 

Yeah by that time they will be getting a good kid I think (just because the farm is stocked now which is a good thing) but you want it to be a lower level type prospect like a Friedman instead of a Sanheim.

 

I hope I am coming across clear.

 

Hextall I think did an outstanding job this past I think he'll do an even better job come the next one.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Well, not necessarily, I think.

 

If you go 8/1, you could do 4 F and 4 D plus 1 G.

 

So let's say

G, Coots, TK, Patrick

Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers

(Trade Morin)

Protect whatever goalie you want/need to.

 

Or if you go 7/3/1, that's when you run into numbers problems.

G, Coots, TK, Patrick, Lindblom, Voracek, and one more forward

Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim

(Both Morin and Myers are exposed)

Protect whatever goalie you want/need to.

 

 

 

Yes and say by then you have a clearer picture by then say you feel strongly about Hart you could trade Sandstrom by then so he doesn't get snagged because you can only protect Hart.

 

Sandstrom is tricky I know he is in the SHL next year but he is on loan his entry level contract will start next year even though he is playing in the SHL so by then not sure how they will count his "pro seasons".

 

Say he plays next year in the SHL and the following year in the AHL I hope he will still be good.

 

Hard to do all this at work.

[brelic]

15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes and say by then you have a clearer picture by then say you feel strongly about Hart you could trade Sandstrom by then so he doesn't get snagged because you can only protect Hart.

 

Sandstrom is tricky I know he is in the SHL next year but he is on loan his entry level contract will start next year even though he is playing in the SHL so by then not sure how they will count his "pro seasons".

 

Say he plays next year in the SHL and the following year in the AHL I hope he will still be good.

 

Hard to do all this at work.

 

I really think Hart will be exempt, and likely Sandstrom too.

 

Stolarz had just finished his 3rd pro season. Same with Leier. Pettersson was in his 4th (but two with the Phantoms then two in the ECHL). They were all exposed in the draft.

 

Morin just finished his 2nd pro season, and was exempt. 

 

So Hart and Frost are definitely ok, and anyone not currently in the AHL. Sandstrom, I'm not sure. 

 

Here's the list from last year... 

 

The Philadelphia Flyers, in conjunction with the National Hockey League, announced their list of PROTECTED players for the 2017 Expansion Draft.

 

FORWARDS (7)

Sean Couturier
Valtteri Filppula
Claude Giroux
Scott Laughton
Brayden Schenn
Wayne Simmonds
Jakub Voracek

 

DEFENSEMEN (3)

Shayne Gostisbehere
Radko Gudas
Brandon Manning

 

GOALTENDER (1)

Anthony Stolarz

 

Per the NHL Press Release, the following is the list of AVAILABLE players from the Philadelphia Flyers for the 2017 Expansion Draft:

 

FORWARDS (13)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare
Greg Carey
Chris Conner
Boyd Gordon
Taylor Leier
Colin McDonald
Andy Miele
Michael Raffl
Matt Read
Chris VandeVelde
Jordan Weal
Dale Weise
Eric Wellwood

 

DEFENSEMEN (7)
Mark Alt
TJ Brennan
Michael Del Zotto
Andrew MacDonald
Will O'Neill
Jesper Pettersson
Nick Schultz

 

GOALTENDERS (2)
Steve Mason
Michal Neuvirth

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He will no way he worked this hard to build this embarrassment of riches only to have some new start up and come in and steal away some good talent from him.

 

I mean we seen them just take Bellemare because he planned pretty well the first time and he was the best they really offered at the time.

 

Now with that said i don't expect the roster by that time to be full of the Mcduds and Weises types.

 

So they will have the choice of some lower level type picks like a Raffl, Weal, Leier, Laughton or a Friedman type of prospect which still won't be that bad.

 

I think the long and short of doing the above as I see it laid out makes me more open to trading one of the kid D men than I have been up to this point.  

 

I'd have wanted these guys to play together for 7 or 8 years otherwise, but the thought of losing one for nothing is so absurd I can't stomach it.  That said, they literally have SO many good young D men prospects, that they'll have to trade three of them to avoid losing them which means they will go from having 6 strong defensive prospects becoming great players over the next two years to 3.  Which really really sucks.  

 

They could bother using them to acquire one forward that they'd protect in two years, but the other two would have to go for picks or prospects, otherwise, Hextall would just be trading an asset to get another that Seattle would just take instead.

 

 

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

16 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I think the long and short of doing the above as I see it laid out makes me more open to trading one of the kid D men than I have been up to this point.  

 

I'd have wanted these guys to play together for 7 or 8 years otherwise, but the thought of losing one for nothing is so absurd I can't stomach it.  That said, they literally have SO many good young D men prospects, that they'll have to trade three of them to avoid losing them which means they will go from having 6 strong defensive prospects becoming great players over the next two years to 3.  Which really really sucks.  

 

They could bother using them to acquire one forward that they'd protect in two years, but the other two would have to go for picks or prospects, otherwise, Hextall would just be trading an asset to get another that Seattle would just take instead.

 

 

 

 

 

I still don't like the trade concept. I still think that only causes us to lose more than one (even you acknowledge three in your scenario).  That just seems like Scorched Earth to me. Just leave them exposed and lose only one of Morin, Myers or Hagg.  Leave Voracek exposed and hope they take him. 

[AJgoal]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I still don't like the trade concept. I still think that only causes us to lose more than one (even you acknowledge three in your scenario).  That just seems like Scorched Earth to me. Just leave them exposed and lose only one of Morin, Myers or Hagg.  Leave Voracek exposed and hope they take him. 

 

The only way it works out is if you trade Morin for a guy like  Cody Glass. Not that I'm saying that's a deal, but he's a guy who won't have two pro years when the draft rolls around. So you're trading a young guy for a young guy. 

 

Honestly, thinking about it, you know who's going to make out in the next expansion draft?

 

Vegas. They're most likely going to be exempt. They can take on whomever they want without fear of losing anyone. And while GMs aren't likely to make Florida- or Minnesota-like trades to Seattle in order to get them to avoid taking a player they don't want to lose, they could conceivably sell some players they don't want to lose for nothing. And while Vegas won't be the only possible landing spot for those deals, they also aren't limited to just one or two.

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

The only way it works out is if you trade Morin for a guy like  Cody Glass. Not that I'm saying that's a deal, but he's a guy who won't have two pro years when the draft rolls around. So you're trading a young guy for a young guy. 

Okay, but you STILL lose another defenseman in the expansion draft.  Great you have Glass (I understand you were just inserting a name), but if the idea was to avoid losing A defenseman, you not only didn't succeed, you've now lost 2 (the second one still for nothing). 

 

If I'm going to do that and still lose one of my kid defensemen for nothing, i might as well NOT do the trade and just swallow losing the one. 

 

The Voracek thing makes sense to me or making a deal with Seattle makes sense. Two lesser prospects and/or a pick to stay away from my defensemen makes more sense to me than a trade with a third party that doesn't ultimately protect another defenseman. 

[King Knut]

8 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I still don't like the trade concept. I still think that only causes us to lose more than one (even you acknowledge three in your scenario).  That just seems like Scorched Earth to me. Just leave them exposed and lose only one of Morin, Myers or Hagg.  Leave Voracek exposed and hope they take him. 

 

Maybe that's the way to do it.  I don't know.  It would just suck really bad because at this point Myers is looking really good.  

Either way, if I'm hextall, I think I'm trying to trade up in order to draft one of these highly touted D men.  It seems that we're going to need one in a few years.

[AJgoal]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Okay, but you STILL lose another defenseman in the expansion draft.  Great you have Glass (I understand you were just inserting a name), but if the idea was to avoid losing A defenseman, you not only didn't succeed, you've now lost 2 (the second one still for nothing). 

 

If I'm going to do that and still lose one of my kid defensemen for nothing, i might as well NOT do the trade and just swallow losing the one. 

 

The Voracek thing makes sense to me or making a deal with Seattle makes sense. Two lesser prospects and/or a pick to stay away from my defensemen makes more sense to me than a trade with a third party that doesn't ultimately protect another defenseman. 

 

From the Flyers perspective it probably won't work, true. Though say they move Morin this offseason in a package for Stone from Ottawa. Now you have a situation where moving one of the four remaining dmen might make sense if you can get back someone that's expansion-exempt. In the end, I'll take my chances on losing my 4th or 5th worst defenseman than out-thinking myself into giving them a franchise-altering top pair. 

[King Knut]

14 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

The only way it works out is if you trade Morin for a guy like  Cody Glass. Not that I'm saying that's a deal, but he's a guy who won't have two pro years when the draft rolls around. So you're trading a young guy for a young guy. 

 

Honestly, thinking about it, you know who's going to make out in the next expansion draft?

 

Vegas. They're most likely going to be exempt. They can take on whomever they want without fear of losing anyone. And while GMs aren't likely to make Florida- or Minnesota-like trades to Seattle in order to get them to avoid taking a player they don't want to lose, they could conceivably sell some players they don't want to lose for nothing. And while Vegas won't be the only possible landing spot for those deals, they also aren't limited to just one or two.

 

Vegas will make out and if they win the cup and are competitive again next year and don't have to lose someone to this draft, that will be a bitter pill for every other fan in the league... BUT

 

Keep in mind, as of right now, Vegas won't remotely be able to fulfill the requirements as far as exposing players.   Only 5 players currently on their team will STILL be under contract come the Seattle draft.  

 

As frustrating as it is and as great as vegas can make out on it, there's a reason they're exempt beyond preferential treatment.  

 

Now if you want to talk about preferential treatment, somehow I still expect the league to make the penguins exempt somehow.  Fleury gave them such a pass last time around.  It's working out for him, but still... can that organization just NOT catch a break for once?  Just once?

[King Knut]

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Okay, but you STILL lose another defenseman in the expansion draft.  Great you have Glass (I understand you were just inserting a name), but if the idea was to avoid losing A defenseman, you not only didn't succeed, you've now lost 2 (the second one still for nothing). 

 

If I'm going to do that and still lose one of my kid defensemen for nothing, i might as well NOT do the trade and just swallow losing the one. 

 

The Voracek thing makes sense to me or making a deal with Seattle makes sense. Two lesser prospects and/or a pick to stay away from my defensemen makes more sense to me than a trade with a third party that doesn't ultimately protect another defenseman. 

 

The other part that makes this suck so much is that 2020 is the year (if all else fails) when we'll finally be rid of Gudas and AMac's contracts and all these damn kids will finally just inherit the kingdom outright!  It's so cruel it's hard for it to not feel intentional ( I know it's not and I know other teams will get screwed too). 

 

I'm saying trade up in the draft and just plan on being able to (hopefully) replace whoever you lose with one of these kids.  There's like 5 D men in the projected top 12.  

 

Other than that, my other theory is to sign Tavares and trade the Morin and Hagg for Hoffman or Stone, send another pick to Chicago for Crawford and just go win two cups now and sort the rest out after Seattle takes Myers or Sanheim in 2020.  

 

At the end of the day, I just don't understand why it's so damned important for the city to win a cup RIGHT away, so much so that it's worth screwing over the fan bases of the rest of the league.  

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Okay, but you STILL lose another defenseman in the expansion draft.  Great you have Glass (I understand you were just inserting a name), but if the idea was to avoid losing A defenseman, you not only didn't succeed, you've now lost 2 (the second one still for nothing). 

 

If I'm going to do that and still lose one of my kid defensemen for nothing, i might as well NOT do the trade and just swallow losing the one. 

 

The Voracek thing makes sense to me or making a deal with Seattle makes sense. Two lesser prospects and/or a pick to stay away from my defensemen makes more sense to me than a trade with a third party that doesn't ultimately protect another defenseman. 

 

We'd better hope Jake scores 100 Points the next two seasons.