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2018-19 Iowa Wild and other Wild Prospects Discussion


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It's disturbing the Wild aren't bright enough to take a player like Sokolov (L) and put him with a couple forwards noted for their 2-way play. Guys like Koivu and Coyle for instance. Maybe there's a language barrier there and the kid wouldn't be able to understand Mikko telling him to back off offensively.

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3 minutes ago, rottenrefs said:

It's disturbing the Wild aren't bright enough to take a player like Sokolov (L) and put him with a couple forwards noted for their 2-way play. Guys like Koivu and Coyle for instance. Maybe there's a language barrier there and the kid wouldn't be able to understand Mikko telling him to back off offensively.

 

Sokolov needs to demonstrate that he is "NHL ready" first.  I don't see what is disturbing about that at all.  

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1 hour ago, hf101 said:

 

Sokolov needs to demonstrate that he is "NHL ready" first.  I don't see what is disturbing about that at all.  

I don't totally disagree but not every hockey player with certain talents need to learn how to be accomplished 2-way players.

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35 minutes ago, rottenrefs said:

I don't totally disagree but not every hockey player with certain talents need to learn how to be accomplished 2-way players.

 

Accomplished 2-way players sure have main roles on the PK and traditionally the third and fourth lines however forwards on the top two lines have to be defensively responsible to limit their own turnovers and to forecheck pucks away and create a turnover on their shift.  

 

The NHL game is changing to four defensively responsible scoring lines these days.  Teams that can consistently do this are going to win.  The Penguins were able to accomplish this in their two cup wins, and the Capitals were able to do that better than the Penguins this season.  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/3/capitals-enjoy-variety-scoring-while-penguins-lowe/

 

Sokolov is going to get there, he may need a full AHL season or 2, but he is only 20. 

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1 hour ago, hf101 said:

 

Accomplished 2-way players sure have main roles on the PK and traditionally the third and fourth lines however forwards on the top two lines have to be defensively responsible to limit their own turnovers and to forecheck pucks away and create a turnover on their shift.  

 

The NHL game is changing to four defensively responsible scoring lines these days.  Teams that can consistently do this are going to win.  The Penguins were able to accomplish this in their two cup wins, and the Capitals were able to do that better than the Penguins this season.  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/3/capitals-enjoy-variety-scoring-while-penguins-lowe/

 

Sokolov is going to get there, he may need a full AHL season or 2, but he is only 20. 

I'll bet players like Wayne Gretzky would like to have known that. Every year there's players that stand out as pure scorers and their defensive skills are limited to just above none.

I'm curious who wrote the book scripting that every NHL forward needs to know how to be good defensively? While every NHL defender needs to know how to be good offensively.

 

On each end of the ice each year there are exceptions.

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1 hour ago, rottenrefs said:

I'll bet players like Wayne Gretzky would like to have known that. Every year there's players that stand out as pure scorers and their defensive skills are limited to just above none.

I'm curious who wrote the book scripting that every NHL forward needs to know how to be good defensively? While every NHL defender needs to know how to be good offensively.

 

On each end of the ice each year there are exceptions.

 

Not many though...at the end of the day its usually easier to prevent goals than to score them.  So systems are devised to shut teams down.  This kid doesn't really play defense and doesn't do much when he doesn't have the puck.  Unless you're lighting the lamp often, those guys usually don't last long at the NHL level because everyone is expected to help out a bit defensively no matter how much you score.  

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9 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Not many though...at the end of the day its usually easier to prevent goals than to score them.  So systems are devised to shut teams down.  This kid doesn't really play defense and doesn't do much when he doesn't have the puck.  Unless you're lighting the lamp often, those guys usually don't last long at the NHL level because everyone is expected to help out a bit defensively no matter how much you score.  

That's all understandable, but there are players who stay at home on defense and forwards who clog or camp in front of the net... While I know in a perfect world it would be great to have every forward be good at both ends of the ice and defenders likewise also good on offense. Hopefully along the way through development they build on their weaknesses - as long as it doesn't completely withdraw them from their strengths; which is something that seems to fail with too many young players in Wild sweaters.

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7 hours ago, rottenrefs said:

That's all understandable, but there are players who stay at home on defense and forwards who clog or camp in front of the net... While I know in a perfect world it would be great to have every forward be good at both ends of the ice and defenders likewise also good on offense. Hopefully along the way through development they build on their weaknesses - as long as it doesn't completely withdraw them from their strengths; which is something that seems to fail with too many young players in Wild sweaters.

 

No question it would be a shame to waste the gift the kid has.  However, the onus is on Sokolov to try to 'fix' that part of his game.  

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16 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Not many though...at the end of the day its usually easier to prevent goals than to score them.  So systems are devised to shut teams down.  This kid doesn't really play defense and doesn't do much when he doesn't have the puck.  Unless you're lighting the lamp often, those guys usually don't last long at the NHL level because everyone is expected to help out a bit defensively no matter how much you score.  

 

Jacques Lemaire's hated Neutral Zone Trap (except if your team employed it, then it was sheer brilliance!). Detroit's vaunted Left Wing Lock. Edmonton's Egg Formation. Systems all designed to clog the neutral zone and not let the opposing team develop any speed or rhythm. Cause a turnover and then counter with speed. And these systems are far more easy to employ with marginally talented players as well. The Minnesota Wild had no business in the 2002-2003 Western Conference finals based on their talent. But with superior coaching and a system that shut down opposing team's ability to score, they mucked their way through the Playoffs all the way to the Western Conference finals.

 

This is why Thomas Vanek never worked out here. He's 100% cherry picker, or as we used to call them Suck-holes. All about scoring goals, hovering around the other teams blue line, constantly screaming "Pass it to me!" as the other four players on his team are trying to get the puck out of their own end against five opposing players. God we hated kids like that.

 

That's why I'm not holding my breath for Sokolov. Yeah, it'd be great to have someone on the team that finally shoots first and passes second, but if he can't show at least some defensive responsibility, he'll never make it out of Iowa.

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3 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Jacques Lemaire's hated Neutral Zone Trap (except if your team employed it, then it was sheer brilliance!). Detroit's vaunted Left Wing Lock. Edmonton's Egg Formation. Systems all designed to clog the neutral zone and not let the opposing team develop any speed or rhythm. Cause a turnover and then counter with speed. And these systems are far more easy to employ with marginally talented players as well. The Minnesota Wild had no business in the 2002-2003 Western Conference finals based on their talent. But with superior coaching and a system that shut down opposing team's ability to score, they mucked their way through the Playoffs all the way to the Western Conference finals.

 

This is why Thomas Vanek never worked out here. He's 100% cherry picker, or as we used to call them Suck-holes. All about scoring goals, hovering around the other teams blue line, constantly screaming "Pass it to me!" as the other four players on his team are trying to get the puck out of their own end against five opposing players. God we hated kids like that.

 

That's why I'm not holding my breath for Sokolov. Yeah, it'd be great to have someone on the team that finally shoots first and passes second, but if he can't show at least some defensive responsibility, he'll never make it out of Iowa.

 

Its the same reason Mark Parrish didn't work out either.  He was pretty much a one-dimensional, goal mouth scorer.  He wasn't scoring goals so he kind of got phased out of the lineup and we bought him out.  Overall it worked out well for Parrish money-wise but for the team not so much.  And you're right...if he can't learn to play at least a basic level of defense (as well as keep his scoring touch and produce offensively) he likely won't make it out of Iowa.  

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2 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Its the same reason Mark Parrish didn't work out either.  He was pretty much a one-dimensional, goal mouth scorer.  He wasn't scoring goals so he kind of got phased out of the lineup and we bought him out.  Overall it worked out well for Parrish money-wise but for the team not so much.  And you're right...if he can't learn to play at least a basic level of defense (as well as keep his scoring touch and produce offensively) he likely won't make it out of Iowa.  

 

And that's what concerns me a bit with Sokolov, that he will focus so much on improving defensively that his offensive game will drop off to the point where he is just a typical run of the mill player the Wild seem to treasure, kind of a Jack-of-all-Trades, Master-of-None.

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Considering they took Sokolov completely off the ice in a previous development camp to focus on conditioning, training & nutrition and it apparently is still an issue obviously makes you wonder.   Hopefully it's simply a maturation issue, assuming some day he will eventually mature.

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3 minutes ago, 4Check said:

Considering they took Sokolov completely off the ice in a previous development camp to focus on conditioning, training & nutrition and it apparently is still an issue obviously makes you wonder.   Hopefully it's simply a maturation issue, assuming some day he will eventually mature.

 

Maybe we'll be lucky for a change and the kid will turn into the Wild's version of "Cheeseburger" Phil Kessel...

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3 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

And that's what concerns me a bit with Sokolov, that he will focus so much on improving defensively that his offensive game will drop off to the point where he is just a typical run of the mill player the Wild seem to treasure, kind of a Jack-of-all-Trades, Master-of-None.

With every young player the Wild have that's what concerns me the most because often they just become dysfunctional players.

 

2 hours ago, 4Check said:

Considering they took Sokolov completely off the ice in a previous development camp to focus on conditioning, training & nutrition and it apparently is still an issue obviously makes you wonder.   Hopefully it's simply a maturation issue, assuming some day he will eventually mature.

Then you get a kid like Granlund who over one summer worked on his conditioning and skating and actually made very noticeable changes to his game.

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       Still I do believe sooner or later Sokolov will make it out of Iowa. If not with our Wild team then definitely with a different NHL team. It seems so far he is a gifted scorer which the Wild does not realize in full yet. We should have inserted him 2 years ago into the Wild to evaluate his scoring abilities for the parent club same way as we did with Ek, Kunin and Greenway. What we did get out of them besides their defensive play? Practically nothing so far – minimal production (in goals and assists). Just do not understand such a blind vision, such a stupid deep stubbornness of the managing decisions. What are we waiting for? To make Dmitry in a superb shape, to look like a Ronaldo player out of the Portugal soccer team at the World 2018 Cup in Russia? Or to make him nothing out of the Wild questionable system of drafting, selecting, evaluating, training, and dietitian strict control? In a Wild’s 18 years of existence we had only 3 players capable to pass 30 goals level during a regular season. First one was Gaborik, and 2 (Staal and Zucker) last year. Is that a lot of players? Did we have at least 1 player who had 90-100 points per season in a Wild’s history? Gaborik had at maximum 83 points for the Wild. Did Gaborik had a superb defensive skills? I do not think so. Do we have a superb achievements in those 18 years? Just once we were able to reach long time ago Western Conference Stanley Cup finals(2002-2003) and also had 6 years of consistent playoffs appearance during the last 6 years. If we have a defense, but not capable to score enough in playoffs for many years, that is not a solid Wild team. Without scoring is no success. We badly need talented scorers, especially, for the playoffs.

 

     Again Sokolov was playing in OHL during 2,5 seasons for the worst extremely bad defensively playing team - Sudbury Wolves and a half of season he was playing with a much much better team – Barrie Colts. He had -12 for the Wolves and + 15 for the Colts during the last season. Team’s play means a lot in player's statistics too. In 3 OHL seasons he was able to put 128 goals (30;48;50 respectively) and 92 assists with a total 220 points. For the last regular season he had 96 points (50 goals,46 assists) and in 12 playoffs games for Colts he had 15 points(8 goals and 7 assists) last year. For Russia-U20 team in 14 games he had 4 goals and 5 assists. Is that means nothing? Then I do not know what else I could add to the plate of Sokolov’s presentation, his positive progression. Personally for me, so far, he costs even more for the team than Kaprizov. Team needs to develop him into a treasure like they did with Zucker. Initially, Jason also was not very good defensively minded too, but gradually developed into a nice professional 2 way hockey athlete, which I hope the Wild will sign him.

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2 hours ago, Alexandron said:

       Still I do believe sooner or later Sokolov will make it out of Iowa. If not with our Wild team then definitely with a different NHL team. It seems so far he is a gifted scorer which the Wild does not realize in full yet. We should have inserted him 2 years ago into the Wild to evaluate his scoring abilities for the parent club same way as we did with Ek, Kunin and Greenway. What we did get out of them besides their defensive play? Practically nothing so far – minimal production (in goals and assists). Just do not understand such a blind vision, such a stupid deep stubbornness of the managing decisions. What are we waiting for? To make Dmitry in a superb shape, to look like a Ronaldo player out of the Portugal soccer team at the World 2018 Cup in Russia? Or to make him nothing out of the Wild questionable system of drafting, selecting, evaluating, training, and dietitian strict control? In a Wild’s 18 years of existence we had only 3 players capable to pass 30 goals level during a regular season. First one was Gaborik, and 2 (Staal and Zucker) last year. Is that a lot of players? Did we have at least 1 player who had 90-100 points per season in a Wild’s history? Gaborik had at maximum 83 points for the Wild. Did Gaborik had a superb defensive skills? I do not think so. Do we have a superb achievements in those 18 years? Just once we were able to reach long time ago Western Conference Stanley Cup finals(2002-2003) and also had 6 years of consistent playoffs appearance during the last 6 years. If we have a defense, but not capable to score enough in playoffs for many years, that is not a solid Wild team. Without scoring is no success. We badly need talented scorers, especially, for the playoffs.

 

     Again Sokolov was playing in OHL during 2,5 seasons for the worst extremely bad defensively playing team - Sudbury Wolves and a half of season he was playing with a much much better team – Barrie Colts. He had -12 for the Wolves and + 15 for the Colts during the last season. Team’s play means a lot in player's statistics too. In 3 OHL seasons he was able to put 128 goals (30;48;50 respectively) and 92 assists with a total 220 points. For the last regular season he had 96 points (50 goals,46 assists) and in 12 playoffs games for Colts he had 15 points(8 goals and 7 assists) last year. For Russia-U20 team in 14 games he had 4 goals and 5 assists. Is that means nothing? Then I do not know what else I could add to the plate of Sokolov’s presentation, his positive progression. Personally for me, so far, he costs even more for the team than Kaprizov. Team needs to develop him into a treasure like they did with Zucker. Initially, Jason also was not very good defensively minded too, but gradually developed into a nice professional 2 way hockey athlete, which I hope the Wild will sign him.

Nobody gets called up with the expectations of playing better than Koivu. That's why they call them up.

There's zero threat with Ek, Kunin and Greenway in that capacity and likely they got an earful to play defensively so they wouldn't do just that: By adding too much extra scoring.

 

Zucker would score in a mini flurry and be sent down. We all know the history there. They'd instead call him out about not being responsible on defense. Rinse-repeat.

 

One day some of these other 'experts' might figure that out but chances are slim since they not only drink the water they promote it.

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20 hours ago, 4Check said:

Considering they took Sokolov completely off the ice in a previous development camp to focus on conditioning, training & nutrition and it apparently is still an issue obviously makes you wonder.   Hopefully it's simply a maturation issue, assuming some day he will eventually mature.

 

Well its on him now.  I think he showed a lot of offensive ability and assertiveness at camp.  I don't think he'll lose the scoring ability; its really can he stay in shape and learn some nominal level of defensive responsibility.  He certainly was noticeable in the scrimmages in regards to his skill.  One thing that gave me some relief was his skating ability seems to be decent enough.  However, he definitely moves with more speed and purpose when he has the puck versus when he doesn't.  That is a mentality he'll have to fix IMO.  

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3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Well its on him now.  I think he showed a lot of offensive ability and assertiveness at camp.  I don't think he'll lose the scoring ability; its really can he stay in shape and learn some nominal level of defensive responsibility.  He certainly was noticeable in the scrimmages in regards to his skill.  One thing that gave me some relief was his skating ability seems to be decent enough.  However, he definitely moves with more speed and purpose when he has the puck versus when he doesn't.  That is a mentality he'll have to fix IMO.  

With the rest of the development forward group being IMO mostly so-so, I found myself focused on Sokolov.  I agree that his skating is improving. Surprising first step coming off the boards to the net. And man, gotta love his quick shot release and soft hands.  Still, while I find myself hoping for a Tarasenko,  my expectations remain.... is he simply another Pulkkinen?  

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6 hours ago, 4Check said:

With the rest of the development forward group being IMO mostly so-so, I found myself focused on Sokolov.  I agree that his skating is improving. Surprising first step coming off the boards to the net. And man, gotta love his quick shot release and soft hands.  Still, while I find myself hoping for a Tarasenko,  my expectations remain.... is he simply another Pulkkinen?  

 

Pulkkinen is an apt comparison until we see otherwise...

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Last week it was published a nice article regarding Sokolov, Belpedio, and other prospects at our local Star Tribune.

Here is a link to it:

http://www.startribune.com/wild-notes-russian-dmitry-sokolov-has-a-knack-for-the-net/488242901/

 

According to that article, it seems the most Andrei Svechnikov's success last year was done by the help of Dmitry Sokolov too because they built together a pretty effective chemistry then. 

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On 7/15/2018 at 8:42 AM, 4Check said:

Considering they took Sokolov completely off the ice in a previous development camp to focus on conditioning, training & nutrition and it apparently is still an issue obviously makes you wonder.   Hopefully it's simply a maturation issue, assuming some day he will eventually mature.

 He is almost matured and had exactly the same style of beard as Khovanov had at the Development Camp this summer. 🙂

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14 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

Sokolov had a great playoffs for Barrie; and his production really took off after that trade from Sudbury.  Hopefully he's a go-to scorer in Iowa.  

 

It would be nice for a change to see a player that wants to shoot the puck rather than treat it like a hot potato and quickly pass it to someone, anyone, else... 

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3 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

It would be nice for a change to see a player that wants to shoot the puck rather than treat it like a hot potato and quickly pass it to someone, anyone, else... 

 

He actually demonstrated some playmaking skill once he was traded, but he still was a good finisher too.  

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4 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

He actually demonstrated some playmaking skill once he was traded, but he still was a good finisher too.  

 

The Wild have enough playmakers for two teams. Hopefully he stays away from the pierogi and keeps scoring goals in bunches...

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