What should Fentons first "tweak" be as the Wilds new GM?

[IllaZilla]

4 hours ago, Gnarkill said:

"Fenton asks for 'no-trade' lists from three #mnwild veterans"

 

https://theathletic.com/408020/2018/06/25/wild-paul-fenton-no-trade-lists-three-players-alex-stalock-backup-notes/

 

It appears he's exploring all options on everyone that can be moved

 

I don't know if I'd get too excited about this. These players are required to submit these lists prior to the UFA period. 

 

You just never heard about these lists because the Wild were usually in the mode of trying to acquire more talent, not unloading talent.

[IllaZilla]

A Tweak! Looks like Fenton hires former TB front office exec Tom Kurvers as assistant GM.

 

That’s gotta be awkward for Flahr...

[CreaseAndAssist]

3 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

A Tweak! Looks like Fenton hires former TB front office exec Tom Kurvers as assistant GM.

 

That’s gotta be awkward for Flahr...

 

Sounds like many scouts were told they can seek employment elsewhere if they'd like.  Not sure why you wouldn't just let them go and bring in your own people instead of playing footsie.  

[4Check]

It would be interesting to know how many of Fenton's "own people" are available considering how Poile circled the wagons in Nashville as soon as Fenton was hired by Leipold.   I would guess he would have to piece meal a scouting staff, perhaps even keeping a few leftovers just to fill the availibilities.    I'd sure like to see Canada scouting improved.   Wild sure seem to be void of picks from the junior leagues. 

[IllaZilla]

17 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Sounds like many scouts were told they can seek employment elsewhere if they'd like.  Not sure why you wouldn't just let them go and bring in your own people instead of playing footsie.  

 

Someone tweeted Russo asking if Flahr was leaving now that Tom Kurvers was assistant GM, and Russo said he was staying. Wonder if it's contractual.

 

And I'd guess replacing the scouts will be a process. Probably want to evaluate them all to see which ones were doing what.

[EJ0226]

I am interested in if any talent that is serious about winning really has any interest in the Wild. Teams can see how much of a mess the Wild are. They usually go backwards into the playoffs where maybe 2 to 4 guys show up to play and get destroyed. This has been on repeat for the last 6 years. The worst part is the high paid guys don't have to worry about showing up or giving to much effort as their contracts are so stupid that they could literally start taking the puck and shooting it against our own goalie and receive no punishment. They are locked in until basically their retirement age! The franchise and a good 12 years were gambled on two guys pushing the team into a Stanley Cup threat team when they never did that for their past teams.

Honestly I have stopped to think about trading players like Nino, Zucker, Coyle, etc and I am not against it. Hear me out. The franchise isn't a tweak away from making a serious run. Contracts like Suter and Parise completely prevent this from happening. So it might suck but tank badly. Trade guys that peaked for great draft picks. Start building for the future. This team and roster are not going to improve and if anything show a trend to get worse. I know it sucks to think about being crappy for a few years starting now but if it builds to the future of being great I would take that in a heartbeat over having a overpaid prima donnas that in 6 years the franchise is going to need to rebuild anyways.

 

I did like seeing a lot of centers being drafted. I think that gives a good indication that Mikkos days are numbered.

[IllaZilla]

 

4 minutes ago, EJ0226 said:

I am interested in if any talent that is serious about winning really has any interest in the Wild. Teams can see how much of a mess the Wild are. They usually go backwards into the playoffs where maybe 2 to 4 guys show up to play and get destroyed. This has been on repeat for the last 6 years. The worst part is the high paid guys don't have to worry about showing up or giving to much effort as their contracts are so stupid that they could literally start taking the puck and shooting it against our own goalie and receive no punishment. They are locked in until basically their retirement age! The franchise and a good 12 years were gambled on two guys pushing the team into a Stanley Cup threat team when they never did that for their past teams.

Honestly I have stopped to think about trading players like Nino, Zucker, Coyle, etc and I am not against it. Hear me out. The franchise isn't a tweak away from making a serious run. Contracts like Suter and Parise completely prevent this from happening. So it might suck but tank badly. Trade guys that peaked for great draft picks. Start building for the future. This team and roster are not going to improve and if anything show a trend to get worse. I know it sucks to think about being crappy for a few years starting now but if it builds to the future of being great I would take that in a heartbeat over having a overpaid prima donnas that in 6 years the franchise is going to need to rebuild anyways.

 

I did like seeing a lot of centers being drafted. I think that gives a good indication that Mikkos days are numbered.

 

Unfortunately the owner shot his mouth off and said the team only needs a tweak to get to the Stanley Cup. I think everyone with half a brain in their head can see this team is just spinning their wheels and needs a rebuild. But maybe with a healthy Coyle, Niederreitter, and Parise, the offense scores more, which takes the pressure off the defense and Dubnyk. Maybe Stalock gets better and can not only start 30+ games, he can win a majority of them, giving Dubnyk a break, especially later in the season. Defensively, maybe Spurgeon stays healthy and Olofsson shows he's more than a traffic cone in a Wild sweater. Maybe Brodin finally tuns into that Nik Lidstrom clone everyone keeps saying he is. But man, that's a LOT of "maybe's"

 

The only thing getting in the way of your trade Zucker, Nino, Coyle, etc. scenario is the owners statement that the team just needs a few tweaks. Zucker, Nino, Granlund, and Coyle were at one time considered the young core of this team. But they seemed to have plateaued. So do you move one of them to shake up the other three? Maybe. But you better be getting an NHL player in return, not a prospect or third round draft pick in the 2019 Entry Draft.  I think just about everyone is of the opinion that the window for this team to make a Cup run is closing fast or has closed already. So to say the team just needs a "tweak" is delusional at best and dishonest at worst.

 

Considering they will lose Staal after this season, that's probably why the focus on centers: Next season they will have Koivu, Ericksson-Ek and maybe Coyle at the center position. Maybe Kunin too if he recovers from his knee injury. Yikes.

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, 4Check said:

It would be interesting to know how many of Fenton's "own people" are available considering how Poile circled the wagons in Nashville as soon as Fenton was hired by Leipold.   I would guess he would have to piece meal a scouting staff, perhaps even keeping a few leftovers just to fill the availibilities.    I'd sure like to see Canada scouting improved.   Wild sure seem to be void of picks from the junior leagues. 

 

Are you sure?  We drafted up 3 CHL'ers this year.  I think in year's past we  focused on college guys because we had that young core basically all make the jump within a season or two of one another.    

[CreaseAndAssist]

7 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

 

Unfortunately the owner shot his mouth off and said the team only needs a tweak to get to the Stanley Cup. I think everyone with half a brain in their head can see this team is just spinning their wheels and needs a rebuild. But maybe with a healthy Coyle, Niederreitter, and Parise, the offense scores more, which takes the pressure off the defense and Dubnyk. Maybe Stalock gets better and can not only start 30+ games, he can win a majority of them, giving Dubnyk a break, especially later in the season. Defensively, maybe Spurgeon stays healthy and Olofsson shows he's more than a traffic cone in a Wild sweater. Maybe Brodin finally tuns into that Nik Lidstrom clone everyone keeps saying he is. But man, that's a LOT of "maybe's"

 

The only thing getting in the way of your trade Zucker, Nino, Coyle, etc. scenario is the owners statement that the team just needs a few tweaks. Zucker, Nino, Granlund, and Coyle were at one time considered the young core of this team. But they seemed to have plateaued. So do you move one of them to shake up the other three? Maybe. But you better be getting an NHL player in return, not a prospect or third round draft pick in the 2019 Entry Draft.  I think just about everyone is of the opinion that the window for this team to make a Cup run is closing fast or has closed already. So to say the team just needs a "tweak" is delusional at best and dishonest at worst.

 

Considering they will lose Staal after this season, that's probably why the focus on centers: Next season they will have Koivu, Ericksson-Ek and maybe Coyle at the center position. Maybe Kunin too if he recovers from his knee injury. Yikes.

 

The interesting thing is...if the rumors that are swirling around the Wild are true we'll see a lot more than just a tweak.  In fact we could see some significant changes.  I am not saying it will be for the best, but I think we might actually see changes.  

 

I think ownership has reasons to trying to sell it as tweaks knowing that the younger core is more well liked than the older veteran players.  But the problem is; as we all know...the younger core is the only part that can be moved.  

 

Would you be ok with a prospect?  I think Zucker OR Dumba will be moved...

[EJ0226]

4 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

 

Unfortunately the owner shot his mouth off and said the team only needs a tweak to get to the Stanley Cup. I think everyone with half a brain in their head can see this team is just spinning their wheels and needs a rebuild. But maybe with a healthy Coyle, Niederreitter, and Parise, the offense scores more, which takes the pressure off the defense and Dubnyk. Maybe Stalock gets better and can not only start 30+ games, he can win a majority of them, giving Dubnyk a break, especially later in the season. Defensively, maybe Spurgeon stays healthy and Olofsson shows he's more than a traffic cone in a Wild sweater. Maybe Brodin finally tuns into that Nik Lidstrom clone everyone keeps saying he is. But man, that's a LOT of "maybe's"

 

The only thing getting in the way of your trade Zucker, Nino, Coyle, etc. scenario is the owners statement that the team just needs a few tweaks. Zucker, Nino, Granlund, and Coyle were at one time considered the young core of this team. But they seemed to have plateaued. So do you move one of them to shake up the other three? Maybe. But you better be getting an NHL player in return, not a prospect or third round draft pick in the 2019 Entry Draft.  I think just about everyone is of the opinion that the window for this team to make a Cup run is closing fast or has closed already. So to say the team just needs a "tweak" is delusional at best and dishonest at worst.

 

Considering they will lose Staal after this season, that's probably why the focus on centers: Next season they will have Koivu, Ericksson-Ek and maybe Coyle at the center position. Maybe Kunin too if he recovers from his knee injury. Yikes.

I know. Leipold isn't the brightest crayon in the box for sure. I think part of it is that there is a good portion of non hockey people that truly believe this team is a tweak away and he listens to those people over the actually hockey minded people. But everybody is right though, there is always a hope. The Wild, just like in a horse race, has a donkeys chance to win. The Donkey just needs all the horse to be ill or injured is the key.

[IllaZilla]

1 minute ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

The interesting thing is...if the rumors that are swirling around the Wild are true we'll see a lot more than just a tweak.  In fact we could see some significant changes.  I am not saying it will be for the best, but I think we might actually see changes.  

 

I think ownership has reasons to trying to sell it as tweaks knowing that the younger core is more well liked than the older veteran players.  But the problem is; as we all know...the younger core is the only part that can be moved.  

 

Would you be ok with a prospect?  I think Zucker OR Dumba will be moved...

If they move Dumba and don't get a king's ransom in return, I think there will be some serious grumbling among fans (maybe even mutiny), considering they gave up Haula and Tuch to protect Dumba in last years expansion draft. And now they trade him a year later after he puts up 55 points as a defenseman?

 

I think Zucker is the more likely of the two to move, which is unfortunate. He's got speed, and likes to shoot, unlike the rest of the forwards who are content to play hot potato with the puck. But for some reason, Zucker always seems to be the red headed stepchild on this team.

 

As far as prospects go, my feeling is a bird in the hand...

 

 

[rottenrefs]

Dump our core young players and I see 4  or more years of high draft picks coming out way.

[IllaZilla]

2 hours ago, 4Check said:

It would be interesting to know how many of Fenton's "own people" are available considering how Poile circled the wagons in Nashville as soon as Fenton was hired by Leipold.   I would guess he would have to piece meal a scouting staff, perhaps even keeping a few leftovers just to fill the availibilities.    I'd sure like to see Canada scouting improved.   Wild sure seem to be void of picks from the junior leagues. 

 

I don't know, the Wild are sitting at almost 40% of their picks coming from the CHL since Fletcher took over...considering the number of other leagues to choose from (SM-Liiga, SEL, NCAA, Czech, KHL, USHL, etc.), I'd say a majority of the picks are coming from the CHL...

 

Year	Picks	QMJHL	OHL	WHL	AJHL	BCHL	Big 10	Czech	Fin Jr	KHL	MAHS	MNHS	Midget	OJHL	USHL	SEL	SEL jr	SM-Liiga	Swiss-A	CHL%
2018	8	2	1	1										1	1	1	1			50%
2017	6		2	1						1				1	1					50%
2016	4		1	1			1								1					50%
2015	7		1					1		1		1			2	1				14%
2014	8			3				1	1						2		1			38%
2013	7	2	1		1	1						1			1					43%
2012	7	1		1							1	2				1			1	29%
2011	6	1	1								1	2				1				33%
2010	6			2											1	1	1	1		33%
2009	8		1	2					1			3	1							38%
Total	67	6	8	11																37%
		9%	12%	16%	1%	1%	1%	3%	3%	3%	3%	13%	1%	3%	13%	7%	4%	1%	1%

[IllaZilla]

25 minutes ago, rottenrefs said:

Dump our core young players and I see 4  or more years of high draft picks coming out way.

 

I'd be excited about that except for the fact that Fenton thinks the Wild got a great pick in landing a third rounder in the first round...

[CreaseAndAssist]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

If they move Dumba and don't get a king's ransom in return, I think there will be some serious grumbling among fans (maybe even mutiny), considering they gave up Haula and Tuch to protect Dumba in last years expansion draft. And now they trade him a year later after he puts up 55 points as a defenseman?

 

I think Zucker is the more likely of the two to move, which is unfortunate. He's got speed, and likes to shoot, unlike the rest of the forwards who are content to play hot potato with the puck. But for some reason, Zucker always seems to be the red headed stepchild on this team.

 

As far as prospects go, my feeling is a bird in the hand...

 

 

 

The reason I ask about prospects is Toronto.  Craig Mirtle's article suggests the Leafs may try to trade the Wild for one of its top 4 defenseman.  It suggests they'd perhaps be willing to take Ennis off our hands.  So if they will take that...would we accept a prospect in return like a Kasperi Kapanen?  

[Alexandron]

I still would like to keep them both(Zucker and Dumba). Both are still young and productive, both still have their offensive potential mentality, which is always difficult to insert artificially to other players which are missing that part of their soul and body. I think that both still have ability professionally to grow. Last regular season showed that well. Both improved their statistics. Tell you a truth, I do not remember the most significant real positive trade for our team, besides Eric Staal, which we did for the last decade, that improved dramatically our offensive performance. I think all other trades were mainly just a lazy garbage or the absence of a real talent. That means building our core from the inside (internally) from our drafted prospects, looking for the most productive and talented one should be the most important part for developing our club as well as for the scouting staff too.
 

[Tomdog]

I really don't see how they trade Zucker or dumba unless they come to agreement with the new team on what the contract is ahead of the trade.

It seems to me that Nino would be much easier to trade.

[4Check]

5 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Are you sure?  We drafted up 3 CHL'ers this year.  I think in year's past we  focused on college guys because we had that young core basically all make the jump within a season or two of one another.    

I was referring to pre-Fenton because I believe it's naive to think he didn't have a final say on the preparation of their draft board. And I'll stick to the premise that over the last decade the Wild have largely concentrated on  U S and Scandinavian players in the draft.

[4Check]

28 minutes ago, Tomdog said:

I really don't see how they trade Zucker or dumba unless they come to agreement with the new team on what the contract is ahead of the trade.

It seems to me that Nino would be much easier to trade.

Russo has suggested the opposite, saying that Nino's salary and term is scaring some GM's.

[4Check]

3 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

The reason I ask about prospects is Toronto.  Craig Mirtle's article suggests the Leafs may try to trade the Wild for one of its top 4 defenseman.  It suggests they'd perhaps be willing to take Ennis off our hands.  So if they will take that...would we accept a prospect in return like a Kasperi Kapanen?  

I like Kapanen, but you'd have to show who the freed up Ennis money would add, especially if it's Dumba.    Spurgeon's repeated health issues, especially for a smaller D who gets hammered so often makes it a little bit more appealing.  But losing Spurgeon would leave a huge hole.    The irony, IMO he's better than Dumba, but comparative age and repeated injuries make it a tough call.

[4Check]

4 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

 

I don't know, the Wild are sitting at almost 40% of their picks coming from the CHL since Fletcher took over...considering the number of other leagues to choose from (SM-Liiga, SEL, NCAA, Czech, KHL, USHL, etc.), I'd say a majority of the picks are coming from the CHL...

 

Year	Picks	QMJHL	OHL	WHL	AJHL	BCHL	Big 10	Czech	Fin Jr	KHL	MAHS	MNHS	Midget	OJHL	USHL	SEL	SEL jr	SM-Liiga	Swiss-A	CHL%
2018	8	2	1	1										1	1	1	1			50%
2017	6		2	1						1				1	1					50%
2016	4		1	1			1								1					50%
2015	7		1					1		1		1			2	1				14%
2014	8			3				1	1						2		1			38%
2013	7	2	1		1	1						1			1					43%
2012	7	1		1							1	2				1			1	29%
2011	6	1	1								1	2				1				33%
2010	6			2											1	1	1	1		33%
2009	8		1	2					1			3	1							38%
Total	67	6	8	11																37%
		9%	12%	16%	1%	1%	1%	3%	3%	3%	3%	13%	1%	3%	13%	7%	4%	1%	1%

As I mentioned in a post above, I was referring to the pre-Fenton era.   But that not withstanding, your chart proves that indeed is the case.   My shortsighted thinking is based on me over focusing on the first round.   Part of that shortsightedness is based on the slim historic odds  2nd-7th round picks playing more than a handful of games in the NHL.

[IllaZilla]

43 minutes ago, 4Check said:

Russo has suggested the opposite, saying that Nino's salary and term is scaring some GM's.

 

Nino is 25, has a cap hit of $5.25M and is signed through the 2021-22 season.

 

Since 2013, he's played over 80 games per season (last year was the exception with 67) and has increased his point total since 2013 from 37 to 43 to 57 (had 37 points last season).

 

Mika Zibanejad, JT Miller, Ondrej Palat, Tomas Tatar and Reilly Smith all have similar age, similar production and similar contracts.

 

Not sure what is so scary about that...decent young player is locked up and without any NTC...

[Valentine1618]

I really would be upset if we trade Zucker. There are others on the team who don’t play as well as Zucker. It would be a horrible idea. This team really will never learn to keep players that play and want to play. 

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, Tomdog said:

I really don't see how they trade Zucker or dumba unless they come to agreement with the new team on what the contract is ahead of the trade.

It seems to me that Nino would be much easier to trade.

 

Teams like RFA's because they have more control over them. All they have to do is make a qualifying offer and the player is stuck only negotiating with his parent club. At least Zucker is arbitration eligible, so if the Wild (or the team he is traded to) can't agree on a contract, it goes to arbitration and the arbiter decides on the compensation and length of the deal (almost always one year). But no one likes to go to arbitration, because it can get very nasty, so much to the point that after the player fulfills his one year deal, he will walk away from the team and sign somewhere else as a UFA no matter what compensation the original club offers.

[4Check]

39 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

 

Nino is 25, has a cap hit of $5.25M and is signed through the 2021-22 season.

 

Since 2013, he's played over 80 games per season (last year was the exception with 67) and has increased his point total since 2013 from 37 to 43 to 57 (had 37 points last season).

 

Mika Zibanejad, JT Miller, Ondrej Palat, Tomas Tatar and Reilly Smith all have similar age, similar production and similar contracts.

 

Not sure what is so scary about that...decent young player is locked up and without any NTC...

Good points....guess you'd have to ask Russo.